Songs that dont work live

Which songs do you think do you think dont cut it live? Hooky doesnt think Run or Guilty partner 'works'.

Most of the NO versions of JD songs dont work for obvious reasons and BM was always a pig to get right technically.

Never heard a very good version of Angel Dust live.

Also, agree with Hooky about Run, but then I never really liked it all that much as a studio track anyway. He's utterly wrong about GP, I think it worked very well on the boot I have of it, once the machines played ball anyway. Thimk he needs to listen back to that, it may just have been awful for him playing it or something.

Run Wild

Bizarre Love Triangle sometimes disappoints me because it is my favorite song, but the BBC Radio 1 version is quite good.

Murder or ecstasy

I think a lot of the songs that are in a 'studio register' for bernard work less well than the early (created live) material. for my taste, most of technique doesn't translate as well live.

likewise, 1963, turn and all of republic (bar regret obv!) musically this material can be a little static live but I've always thought that these songs suffered most because of bernard's singing style being suited to the studio for a large percentage of the stuff made after the first four albums.

I wonder how the setlist process worked and whether these sort of things influenced the more limited sets of later years. or if the time constraints weighed more heavily than the politics of songchoice and personal preferences.

I never thought We All Stand,Loveless or Mr.Disco worked well live at all,& Love Vigilantes was always a bit of a let down too,but probably because it's my favourite.BM took an age to get right,as someone pointed out,& apart from Regret,the Republic ones don't work either.But that's maybe because they're so fookin' poor. :\ohwell: On the other hand,Movement & Brotherhood are all better live IMO

Good post too

about half of them I'd say. certainly too many to mention.

there are a lot of songs that Hook must hate live, in particular the ones that were very studio and do not have a relevant Hooky bass line in them... often using synthesized bass lines... (most of Republic, Mr. Disco, Fine Time, Angel Dust type stuff...)

Not sure why he isn't into Run live. It has what seems to be a fun bassline to play live. Maybe they have to pay Denver's niece royalties or something.

i would've liked to hear barney sing the lead on dreams never end, instead of hooky.

Animadversion wrote: i would've liked to hear barney sing the lead on dreams never end, instead of hooky.

Absolutely not.A song becomes what it is,because of what it is.In this case,an absolute 29 year old jewel in N.O's history.Anything else just wouldn't be right.

Jetstream, and State of the nation live are horrid.

Not sure everybody is on the same page here... "work" as in actually fun to listen to? or "work" as in sound like the studio recording? When I hear live tracks from the 80s I like the more improvised sound of many tracks, much more interesting than more recent stuff in which they often sound like they are playing to a backing tape.

It was Barney that admitted Run didnt work live......

Lots of songs banded about on this thread, the likes of Angel Dust were pretty damn good in their day. Special is the one that really bombed live, Guilty Partner didn't work, not did Brutal. Or Turn My Way.

kel wrote: I never thought We All Stand,

You have to be kidding?

michael preda wrote: Jetstream, and State of the nation live are horrid.

State was fucking great at the time, but it has aged really badly unlike most NO stuff.

Tim wrote:

michael preda wrote: Jetstream, and State of the nation live are horrid.

State was fucking great at the time, but it has aged really badly unlike most NO stuff.

Fair enough, i'll change state to the slowed down 05/06 rendition of ceremony. I prefer when the songs we're faster live, they really showed the band in top form.

It's understandable some of the studio type songs won't work well live and quite the shame since songs like Ruined in a day, 1963 and here to stay would be amazing if they could pull it off.

One thing is for sure all of the Lowlife songs sound great live in 84/5.

I haven't heard a decent live version of WFTSC yet.. solid recording though.

I actually like 1963 live - it sounds wrong - a bit off kilter - but still works live (not like on the DVD), and that's what we're actually talking about here.

I've always thought Vanishing Point sounded a but crap live - the kick drum didn't kick enough, and those 80s style snares were just too much.

The current live version of BLT doesn't do it for me either - it sounds like it's going to go right off like a big spunky firework, and then just doesn't. A banging 4/4 beat right the way through the track would work.

See also Round & Round - Barney's guitar work always sounds too random.

-ahem-

exhibition?

Tim wrote:

kel wrote: I never thought We All Stand,

You have to be kidding?

No,but maybe it's because I'm not that keen on the song. Is it a coincidence that most of the songs that work live,were all worked out & played live before they were actually recorded,ie.almost everything upto Technique,& the songs that don't work,were mostly completed in the studio before being attempted? There's going to be exceptions,maybe just luck or the fact that they were simple to translate live such as guitar based tracks

Mr Disco and the whole Republic except Regret ....

kel wrote:

Tim wrote:

kel wrote: I never thought We All Stand,

You have to be kidding?

Is it a coincidence that most of the songs that work live,were all worked out & played live before they were actually recorded,ie.almost everything upto Technique,& the songs that don't work,were mostly completed in the studio before being attempted? There's going to be exceptions,maybe just luck or the fact that they were simple to translate live such as guitar based tracks

Very good point.

Tim wrote: It was Barney that admitted Run didnt work live......

Lots of songs banded about on this thread, the likes of Angel Dust were pretty damn good in their day. Special is the one that really bombed live, Guilty Partner didn't work, not did Brutal. Or Turn My Way.

Run was great live, just check out some of the '89 tour mixers or Big Word Cafe versions. Bernard doesnt know his arse from his elbow as to what sounds good live as he's never really enjoyed it anyway. Since 89 they haven't really gelled as a live band in my opinion, too clean and processed sounding.

Jetstream...lame

But it's a piss-poor track on the album as well:\ohwell:

Thieves like us- Fabulous song but always sounded very messy live.

Apparently that's the reason it was wasn't played live much: the layers were hard to keep separate. For what it's worth, I always thought Love Vigilantes worked well live but the way they played Love Will Tear Us Apart towards the end of live action didn't really do it any favours: it was like the thing was stripped of its vulnerability and restraint and became a boozy sing-along.

Shellshock for me. I think I've only heard it live once and it sounded a mess.

any of them that require the predominant use of backing tapes!

World(price of love) and pre 02-06 blue monday.

all of them?

:)

True faith, the perfecto mix, hasn't worked besides the 98 reading version.

Run Wild, Working Overtime, Close Range, Times Change, Liar, Avalanche, I Told You So

I think their belief that Run "doesn't work live" is really a matter of them not practicing the song enough.

You know which songs don't work "live"?? The ones with backing tapes, because that's not live.

I guess when they got old, they didn't want to leave as many things to chance, knowing well that a lot of people paid good money to come see them.

I thought Run Wild worked quite well live, although I would have preferred to see the melodica live rather than taped and more made of the interplay between it and the bass during the breaks.

In fact, I've changed my mind. Nothing was added to the song by playing it live. I just like the song and was happy to be hearing it.

And I didn't go to Hyde Park. I think that would have put anyone off for life.

Eric Wang wrote: I think their belief that Run "doesn't work live" is really a matter of them not practicing the song enough.

You know which songs don't work "live"?? The ones with backing tapes, because that's not live.

I guess when they got old, they didn't want to leave as many things to chance, knowing well that a lot of people paid good money to come see them.

Eric,

I'm curious - a lot of the genius produced by New Order is as a result of being able to sequence electronic basslines, bleeps, and melodies, and then pressing a button to let let them do their stuff. As they do live (or used to?)

Are you referring to these tracks or the current set up where a lot of this stuff is on the hard disc. (Cos that's shit)

I know there has been a lot of discussion about what is decreed as 'live' when it comes to performance in the US of A

Emile Strunz wrote:

Eric Wang wrote: I think their belief that Run "doesn't work live" is really a matter of them not practicing the song enough.

You know which songs don't work "live"?? The ones with backing tapes, because that's not live.

I guess when they got old, they didn't want to leave as many things to chance, knowing well that a lot of people paid good money to come see them.

Eric,

I'm curious - a lot of the genius produced by New Order is as a result of being able to sequence electronic basslines, bleeps, and melodies, and then pressing a button to let let them do their stuff. As they do live (or used to?)

Are you referring to these tracks or the current set up where a lot of this stuff is on the hard disc. (Cos that's shit)

I know there has been a lot of discussion about what is decreed as 'live' when it comes to performance in the US of A

I'm talking about the stuff with a ghost vocal in the background. The later stuff. I thought it started with their performing "World (Price of Love) in 1993, but apparently, it includes miming out "1963" in 1989 too, which I had no idea until the DVD came out.

Eric Wang wrote:

Emile Strunz wrote:

Eric Wang wrote: I think their belief that Run "doesn't work live" is really a matter of them not practicing the song enough.

You know which songs don't work "live"?? The ones with backing tapes, because that's not live.

I guess when they got old, they didn't want to leave as many things to chance, knowing well that a lot of people paid good money to come see them.

Eric,

I'm curious - a lot of the genius produced by New Order is as a result of being able to sequence electronic basslines, bleeps, and melodies, and then pressing a button to let let them do their stuff. As they do live (or used to?)

Are you referring to these tracks or the current set up where a lot of this stuff is on the hard disc. (Cos that's shit)

I know there has been a lot of discussion about what is decreed as 'live' when it comes to performance in the US of A

I'm talking about the stuff with a ghost vocal in the background. The later stuff. I thought it started with their performing "World (Price of Love) in 1993, but apparently, it includes miming out "1963" in 1989 too, which I had no idea until the DVD came out.

Firstly, I agree that Run never worked, mostly cos the big guitar riff in the middle wasnt ever replicated well on a live stage, and the drums always seemed to plod along.

As for recent performances/backing tapes etc, I think the loss of Gillian didnt help with these songs.

I'm not sure what to make of that recording of 1963; certainly i heard it live in 1989 a couple of times and it was definitely live, Gillian even playing the notes out of tune at the NEC.

I agree with kel's point about all songs being crafted in the studio first though, from 1987, and not getting any live outings pre-release. It's been a hell of a long time since Barney said 'this is a new song, you've never heard before' and meant it. Last ones for me was Touched or TF, or Dream Attack and Vanishing Point at Gmex, twenty years ago.

Burt Reynolds wrote: It's been a hell of a long time since Barney said 'this is a new song, you've never heard before' and meant it. Last ones for me was Touched or TF, or Dream Attack and Vanishing Point at Gmex, twenty years ago.

When I saw them in January 1989, I do not think technique was already released...

Think Technique came out the same week as those French dates in Jan 89?

Burt Reynolds wrote:

Eric Wang wrote:

Emile Strunz wrote:

Eric Wang wrote: I think their belief that Run "doesn't work live" is really a matter of them not practicing the song enough.

You know which songs don't work "live"?? The ones with backing tapes, because that's not live.

I guess when they got old, they didn't want to leave as many things to chance, knowing well that a lot of people paid good money to come see them.

Eric,

I'm curious - a lot of the genius produced by New Order is as a result of being able to sequence electronic basslines, bleeps, and melodies, and then pressing a button to let let them do their stuff. As they do live (or used to?)

Are you referring to these tracks or the current set up where a lot of this stuff is on the hard disc. (Cos that's shit)

I know there has been a lot of discussion about what is decreed as 'live' when it comes to performance in the US of A

I'm talking about the stuff with a ghost vocal in the background. The later stuff. I thought it started with their performing "World (Price of Love) in 1993, but apparently, it includes miming out "1963" in 1989 too, which I had no idea until the DVD came out.

Firstly, I agree that Run never worked, mostly cos the big guitar riff in the middle wasnt ever replicated well on a live stage, and the drums always seemed to plod along.

As for recent performances/backing tapes etc, I think the loss of Gillian didnt help with these songs.

I'm not sure what to make of that recording of 1963; certainly i heard it live in 1989 a couple of times and it was definitely live, Gillian even playing the notes out of tune at the NEC.

I agree with kel's point about all songs being crafted in the studio first though, from 1987, and not getting any live outings pre-release. It's been a hell of a long time since Barney said 'this is a new song, you've never heard before' and meant it. Last ones for me was Touched or TF, or Dream Attack and Vanishing Point at Gmex, twenty years ago.

Nah, they played new tunes at the Olympia in 2001 before "Get Ready" was released....

Tim wrote: Think Technique came out the same week as those French dates in Jan 89?

The only things I am sure of are : They played on January 20th and that was a Friday. I already had these fine time records, not technique. Maybe technique was already released but I had not it by the concert yet. So that all the technique stuff was new to me.

I have to find the recording of this concert. I do not remember where I stored it...

PETER COATES'S BELATED REDEMPTION wrote:

Nah, they played new tunes at the Olympia in 2001 before "Get Ready" was released....

But they had already recorded them, they were just new to a live audience. In the old days they developed the songs live before recording them, something they stopped doing after Brotherhood.

Ally wrote:

[magenta]cozmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Run Wild, Working Overtime, Close Range, Times Change, Liar, Avalanche, I Told You So

I'm curious to know how these songs don't work live considering they've never been played live? Run Wild, Working Overtime and Close Range fair enough but the others haven't been near a live stage!

Well, that proves my point. I only based my responses through what I have heard on CD.

Leigh maude wrote: Run was great live, just check out some of the '89 tour mixers or Big Word Cafe versions. Bernard doesnt know his arse from his elbow as to what sounds good live as he's never really enjoyed it anyway. Since 89 they haven't really gelled as a live band in my opinion, too clean and processed sounding.

Yeah go ahead and blame Barney, but Hooky also DID say that "Run" doesn't sound good live. BOTH said that "Run" didn't sound good live. Go watch the DVD again.

Ally wrote: Bizarre Love Triangle.

Can't knock the tune as a proper 80s synthpop classic on record but every time I see er... every time I hear it on a live performance I always skip to the next song for some reason. I think because out of the band the only person really doing anything worthwhile is Hooky; pretty much everything else is sequenced and a bit dull. I don't think it's dated well either.

Plus Barney typically doesn't wear a guitar when they play it and watching him jog on the spot while clutching the mike with both hands is a tad cringeworthy.

I'm voting for BLT too and I completely agree with you about Barney not wearing the guitar. I didn't really mind it in '98 when he hold the mic with one hand and did his grampa dance, but when he holds it with two hands and then makes his little girly jumps there, gosh that was... may I say, quite gay?

I usually remember to cover my eyes for the 'get down on my knees and pray' bit when watching DVDs.

At concerts I used to turn my back to the stage and look at someones tits until it was over.

Biginoil wrote: I usually remember to cover my eyes for the 'get down on my knees and pray' bit when watching DVDs.

At concerts I used to turn my back to the stage and look at someones tits until it was over.

I tend to cringe at the same point, then even more so during Blue Monday. I must say though, that Barneys dancing has a certain charm to it.