Republic

No matter how much a adore the album, I can't help but feel it sounds more like "Steven Hague featuring New Order" than a New Order release. How much of it was actually engineered by the band? Hague has writing credits on Spooky and a few other tracks, and it screams early 90s dance. Was this sound influenced by London Records or was it done on the band's accord?

The fact that it was also released very close to another Hague production, Pet Shop Boys's Very, also raises some suspicion. Both had tactile orange limited editions and have a track called "Young Offender". Conspiracy? Probably not, but it's interesting.

Eh, these questions could probably never be answered, but whatever.

I wonder the same things myself. Republic is a very interesting album.

Where is liam with some bullshit comment about how this has been discussed years ago so it is no longer relevant

5-4-3-2-1......

As much as it satisfies my not inconsiderable ego for someone to have taken the role as my own personal post critic, you really shouldnt bother.

On reflection, Republic is a very well produced album, and for the first time presented NO as a big time band.

The Factory era was over and the future looked commercially massive. Regret was embraced as a beautifully written 'pop' song.

However, for the first time the signs were showing that the band's days as a innovative trendsetting force were coming to an end - a more commercial, conservative future beckoned, and the Hague production values were part of that as London tried to shift the 'units'.

I do feel that if NO had followed Republic up a few years later with a similar album then they would have gone stratospheric, but they didn't. They imploded, and that what we were left with was divisive band, who were guaranteed a few hits with any albums they released in the future, but maybe wouldn't reach the commercial heights they could have.

On a personal note, I love Republic; particularly Regret (obviously), Ruined in a day, Everyone everywhere, and Special. I was having a good time in my life at the time and Republic provided a great soundtrack to that period.

I know the album has its detractors among hardcore fans, but a lot of the tracks were beautifully crafted, and the production standards mean it has stood the test of time.

Republic is one of those albums you have to be in the mood to listen to. Sometimes it sounds awesome, others godawful.

At the time it was released Bernard said it was a commercial pop record, which I had respect for as he wasn't trying to pitch it as something that it wasn't.

The whole campaign with the singles, artwork, remixes, videos is, altogether, quite cool.

I agree with noorder. I'm almost embarrassed to admit it on this site, but I love Republic. All but Avalanche.

noorder wrote: a more commercial, conservative future beckoned, and the Hague production values were part of that as London tried to shift the 'units'.

Nice theory there, but wasn't Republic recorded when the band was still under the Factory roof? Loved the album then and still do, mind...

Running late going out tonight.So whilst i am here can i just say i LOVE this album,the artwork is great and the PROMO class.I was very HAPPY when this was released and never heard a bad thing said about it till i joined internet FORUMs.Well maybe the odd BAD review but i never used to bother about that.Can't believe it was so LONG ago.

If I remember correctly...

The band weren't really talking to each other while recording Republic. Bernard Sumner wrote most of the actual songs on the album, and played most of the synths on it.

As the band weren't really talking, Hooky, Steve, and Gillian would all come in and record thier parts seperately, sometimes just playing simple riffs...

And then it was left to Bernard to sequence everything on Apple computers, and to turn them into actual songs.

This would go a long way in explaining why Republic feels more like a Bernard Sumner solo album than a group effort. Except tunes like Regret and Everyone Everywhere, where you can hear the cohesion, and Avalanche, which to my understand it totally Steve and Gillian.

Peter Hook has admitted as such, saying, "Even we had recorded Republic together as a band, it could have been like Technique."

I think Republic is a great record. Its got some brilliant songs (Regret, Special, Everyone Everywhere, Spooky, Liar, Times Change, even World), and it stands as Sumner's best collection of lyrics, but the album production is too smooth, you can't really pick out indivudual instruments, you can't really hear Hooky, and it just doesn't feel like a band playing together.

Additional musicians David Rhodes, Andy Duncan, Audrey Riley... They are hidden key persons of Republic's too smooth sound, IMO.

the drugs were hard at that point, but they had other musicians come in and assist, as it were......

it was the first time they knew they were playing the role of new order, and were no longer new order.

and yet the songs are really great.

well, except for young offender and liar...

Republic holds a special place in my heart. My father raised me on the singles except for spooky. Looking back, the artwork for each single was beautifully designed, with the whole "californian" theme. The album cover especially, shows the duality of life, with the couple playing, as the world around them was ablaze. Tracks like avalanche are actually wonderful to just kick back and listen to, and finally with the remaster, these tracks will get the "punch" they were missing, as the old mastering sounds "flat".

tunes lyrics artwork / graphics...

great album!

Ah, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only NOOLer who thinks so. :)

Monsieur Round & Round wrote:

noorder wrote: a more commercial, conservative future beckoned, and the Hague production values were part of that as London tried to shift the 'units'.

Nice theory there, but wasn't Republic recorded when the band was still under the Factory roof? Loved the album then and still do, mind...

But how much of the Factory "sound" made it through London's board meetings?

Regardless of what we all think of Republic and the fact that the band needed Stephen Hague to finish the project, the artwork is the best I've ever seen from Peter Saville.

The red/yellow sunset sky from Regret, the surfer on a desert from Ruined In A Day, the sky, the deep forest and the city from World and the similar but darker Spooky artwork are all summing up to the beautiful album inlay of Republic.

About the actual music itself: ofcourse, Hooky was absent on most of the songs (only Regret and Special are really New Orderish) because Hague thought that would be the best decision. Luckily he didn't do that for Regret ... and no special single remix is necessary here. For example, If you listen to the New Order Mix, you'll hear what Hague had done with the other album tracks. Maybe if they had another producer for that album, then most songs were REALLY classic New Order with all the trademarks we all know. We have evidence for this; for example, Reading 1993 was one of their best concerts and the Republic-songs sounded wonderful.

The songs are all quite good lyrically, what they lack is the rawness of the other 80's albums. Indeed it sounds flat as some people said here earlier, but that was because the producer chose to go with hipness instead of using an artists qualities. However, a few months after Republic, things DID really work (again) for Stephen Hague with the Pet Shop Boys' Very album (which has indeed a 2nd orange limited edition and a 2nd Young Offender song title which I also cannot explain). The only thing was that he (and maybe the band also because they had no clue) thought that after True Faith he could do the trick again with New Order. He couldn't.

If I listen to Special, I also hear Massive Attack's Unfinished Sympathy from 1991 (which was a number one record in a lot of countrys). Even the song's tempo is almost equal. But I like Special because we simply hear all the New Order trademarks, like in Regret.

But let's face it: the best part of 1993's Republic is that Regret was and always will be the BEST single of the nineties. Much better that the grunge of Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit or the American rock of Metallica's One for instance. That's what I like about the 1993 period of New Order ... the power that they could still produce a world class single.

The album is too polished, although some good songs on the album in particular side a/ Side B is not so good, infact apart from special and avalanch its quite poor, the worst NO music is all on the b-side of republic. Its an album of 2 halves.

I don't know how this myth has started that Regret was the best single of the 90's. Regret is a great single, but come on...

There has to be something better. Metallica's One is better, but that's an 80s tune.

Maybe 'Born Slippy' by Underworld.
'Windowlicker' by Aphex Setting Sun by Chemical Brothers Blue Room by the Orb Only Love Can Break Your Heart by Saint Etienne

probably dozens of others I can't think of right now.

I know what you're thinking - I used to HATE, LOATH and DESPISE Metallica.

But I've come around to their 80s stuff. I can't stand anything after that, not even the Black album.

Lucas Lefel wrote:

If I listen to Special, I also hear Massive Attack's Unfinished Sympathy from 1991 (which was a number one record in a lot of countrys). Even the song's tempo is almost equal.

Agreed. Think i was cringing when i first heard it.

For me, Republic is the sound of a band falling apart. I can't blame Stephen Hague as he clearly didnt have a lot of raw material to work with, with the band not in a harmonious state, in terms of writing or communicating. It's a bit weird, but i felt the same when i heard WFTSC. It's a few of good songs and a lot of filler, which is so not New Order.

I look at Republic and see a few finished articles, in Regret, Everyone Everywhere, and perhaps Ruined in a Day. The rest seems to be a botch job.

Recording an album and taking fuck loads of coke just doesn't work. Never has, never will. (Please don't mention Fleetwood Mac's Rumours - a few decent songs yes, but no way the all-time classic that Q or Mojo will have you believe till the day you die)

Ask the Stone Roses or dozens of other bands who've fucked up their 2nd and 3rd albums through too much charlie (or whatever the kids call it nowadays), too much ego, and not enough hard work and imagination.

Fucking awful drug.

It's amazing there was even a few half decent songs given the state of the band.

Remember they were still probably caning it on pills as well at the Hacienda, given the 90s dance feel for the album. (I'm saying probably here - if I owned a nightclub and was in an electronic band and like dance music, I probably would too)

Monsieur Round & Round wrote:

Nice theory there, but wasn't Republic recorded when the band was still under the Factory roof? Loved the album then and still do, mind...

As I remember it, (which isn't much to go by!) it was started under factory, but took years, factory were well and truly down the pan before the half way point.

For me there is not enough Hooky, apart from regret obviously and sounds too mellow and soft, I'm sure I read an interview with Andrew Weatheral (producer of some famous albums but I can't name any!) and he said it was like new order going through the motions, and that just about sums it up for me, nice production yes, but other than regret, not a lot of character, which up to that point new order had by the bucket full, and they have never really got that back, I guess they are just too fragmented, some of the new tracks work very well and are among my favorites, but too many tracks from the recent albums just don't gel.

I sound like I don't like them any more! that couldn't be further from the truth, I love them and wish they were still together, I just wish they were together properly, instead of together for the sake of the kids as it were.

Question for the original author: re your name, is that IT19 or IT21?

My first proper New Order album. I was 15. Still resonates to this day as I fell love with the band through Regret. So did my brother, who sadly passed away roughly 6 months after I purchased this album. In a lot of ways, the album reminds me of him, and for that, I will always love this album.

That is very sad about your brother, Who's Joe? Sorry to hear that.

On a lighter note, I see that you were born in Syracuse. I've finally found another upstate New Yorker! :) I'm from Rochester.

Jed Stephens wrote:

Monsieur Round & Round wrote:

Nice theory there, but wasn't Republic recorded when the band was still under the Factory roof? Loved the album then and still do, mind...

As I remember it, (which isn't much to go by!) it was started under factory, but took years, factory were well and truly down the pan before the half way point.

Factory declared bankruptcy in November 1992. "Republic" was released in May 1993... six months later

Monsieur Round & Round wrote:

Jed Stephens wrote:

Monsieur Round & Round wrote:

Nice theory there, but wasn't Republic recorded when the band was still under the Factory roof? Loved the album then and still do, mind...

As I remember it, (which isn't much to go by!) it was started under factory, but took years, factory were well and truly down the pan before the half way point.

Factory declared bankruptcy in November 1992. "Republic" was released in May 1993... six months later

I did say my memory isn't much to go by, I was under the influence a lot in those days!

I still stand by the remainder of my comments though. but again, I loved it at the time as it was new output, and I bought all the different mixes of the singles and was constantly annoying my mates playing them at every opportunity, the spooky stadium mix isn't too bad, had a good hooky intro, I just think Hague removes too much hooky, which to me stops it sounding like new order and makes it sound like electronic, without Marr.

I sometimes forget that Republic exists. In fact, I sometimes forget that all the post-Factory albums exist. When I first heard Republic I was less than enamoured at the lack of Peter Hook's bass and the glossy production that smoothed off all of New Order's rough edges. I thought Times Change, Special and Avalanche were great songs but I couldn't believe New Order could put their name to a track as boring as Liar. I listened to Republic for a bit and then it was put on the shelf to gather dust. All these years later I find I love Regret to bits (never did at the time - weird I know) and have taken to Ruined In A Day. I still find the album a bit of an oddity however. The theory that it's a Bernard Sumner/Electronic record masquerading as New Order makes sense. And I agree the artwork for Republic and its singles was some of Peter Saville's finest work - whatever the quality of the music, the whole thing looked fantastic.

I just have to comment on one thing about Metallica. One had the potential to be an excellent song, but that god-awful chorus ruins the entire feel and flow of it. I always get annoyed when people want to play that on Guitar Hero.

Regret is a better single all around.

Speaking of Guitar Hero, any chance of NO or JD making the cut? I'd personally love to play Ceremony. :topic: