New order- low-life (remaster)

well, this one is here at last too...

although this album is not as good as their previous effort in 'power corruption and lies', it is still probably their 2nd best album to me......

'low-life' has amazing artwork, a good track selection, and contains what i consider their best song ever, 'the perfect kiss'..

tracklisting

Low-Life (1985)

1. Love Vigilantes 4:19
2. The Perfect Kiss 4:50
3. This Time of Night 4:45
4. Sunrise 6:01
5. Elegia 4:55
6. Sooner Than You Think 5:11
7. Sub-culture 4:58
8. Face Up 5:06

Low-Life – bonus disc

1. The Perfect Kiss 8:50
2. Subculture 7:27
3. Shellshock (John Robie Remix) 6:31
4. State Of The Nation 6:33
5. Elegia 17:30
6. Let’s Go 3:45
7. Salvation Theme 2:16
8. Dub Vulture 7:56

so lets talk about specifics: for the album

1. the album is not overly loud, or 'over mastered', i'm still comparing all the individual tracks...

2. the soft parts are clear, with no noise or artifacts that i've noticed..especially during 'elegia'...

i'm listening through altec-lansing speakers, and also through headphones

3. the loud parts are not distorted, crank up the perfect kiss and you will see...

4. tracks are complete and not missing parts

the bonus disc:

1. well after all these years of waiting, since 'substance' came out on CD, back in 1987, we've waited and waited in vain for the full 12" mix of 'the perfect kiss' to be released.

21 years later WE NOW FINALLY HAVE IT....

honestly if this was the only new song on the bonus disc, i would have been ecstatic..... so now it's here, and with nothing missing, and in great sound quality....

2. the mastering for the bonus tracks is on the 'loud' side, and it looks like there might be some cropping..

3. we now have both full versions of subculture.... now i know that most people don't like it, but i thought it was a very cool remix for the time, especially with all the stutter-editting that is even being used now..... the dub version is actually kind of dark and industrial sounding...

4. if you didn't get the bonus disc of retro, you will enjoy the full 17 minute version of elegia, if you have not heard it, another masterpiece...

5. sadly only two tracks from salvation are represented here, and not really worth mentioning...we also get the short remix of 'shellshock' and 'state of the nation', again..

===================================================

overall, low-life has held up after all these years, the song quality, and standard are still very high, and worth getting...

the bonus disc is very good, and the sound quality is very good too.. once again they could have put more tracks on there as, but i cannot state how great it is to finally have the full 12" mix of 'the perfect kiss' on there.... everything else is just extra to me..

a lot more to come.. including graphical comparisons...

later -1

'now i know, the perfect kiss, is the kiss of death'

-1 wrote: thanks,

at least now we know what those tracks are..

its the temptation 7", and the 12".

confusuion -> instrumental? [not 'alternative'?]

on the 'low-life' bonus disc -> track 4 = 'shame of the nation'

still can't tell if 'blue monday' is missing the first beat or not..

yes, that's 'true faith (eschreamer dub)'

and finally round and round -> 12 mix (or remix)

later -1

Strange, you said earlier in the 'New Order reissues official tracklisting'-thread that track 4 from the bonus CD was Shame Of The Nation! ... Doesn't add up, does it?!

I wonder what kind of source you had on that one ...

Luke wrote:

-1 wrote:

on the 'low-life' bonus disc -> track 4 = 'shame of the nation'

Strange, you said earlier in the thread about the reissues that track 4 from the bonus CD was Shame Of The Nation! ... Doesn't add up, does it?!

I wonder what kind of source you had on that one ...

well, look who came back, the guy that doesn't know his 'new order' tracks...

well you're wrong again.... the website DID POST 'shame of the nation'..

i never SAID it was the song on the actual CD, i was stating what the song on the WEBSITE said was on the CD...don't you know the difference?

and THIS IS THE PROMO version, so either the website is wrong, or the final version is different..

please go back and ACTUALLY TRY TO LISTEN TO NEW ORDER songs before you speak..

why are you even on this board, when you clearly don't know what their songs are?

or do i have to post both of these songs for you again, so you can tell the difference??????????

later -1

here's the spectrum analysis for 'the perfect kiss',

the lines on the top represent the remastered version, and the lower lines are the 'substance' version...

as you can see, there is a slightly better frequency response for the remaster especially on the high end, although the decibel levels are higher..

and here's the sonogram in color..

later -1

-1 wrote:

well, look who came back, the guy that doesn't know his 'new order' tracks...

well you're wrong again.... the website DID POST 'shame of the nation'..

i never SAID it was the song on the actual CD, i was stating what the song on the WEBSITE said was on the CD...don't you know the difference?

and THIS IS THE PROMO version, so either the website is wrong, or the final version is different..

please go back and ACTUALLY TRY TO LISTEN TO NEW ORDER songs before you speak..

why are you even on this board, when you clearly don't know what their songs are?

or do i have to post both of these songs for you again, so you can tell the difference??????????

later -1

I beg your pardon?! It seems that you think you are Mr. Fucking God Himself on this forum?! I'll tell you what: I don't like the way you speak to al lot of people on this forum, that includes me.

By the way: you NEVER said that you were talking about a promo in this thread/case.

Luke wrote:

I beg your pardon?! It seems that you think you are Mr. Fucking God Himself on this forum?! I'll tell you what: I don't like the way you speak to al lot of people on this forum, that includes me.

By the way: you NEVER said that you were talking about a promo in this thread/case.

excuse me, i'm sorry if i had to correct you.. i apologize, and i can admit when i'm wrong.. (not saying it was the promo, its kind of hard to have the final product when it hasn't been sold yet..)..

why didn't you apologize to the person who you were trying to correct.. and admit you were wrong..

i didn't like the way you spoke to them, when you thought you were 'God'.... making them feel bad, and telling them that they don't know how new order songs are named, when in fact, it was you who didn't know..

and now you know how it feels to be corrected..

later -1

If that person was bothered about that 'Blue Monday '88-Dub-talk' than he could've said so, I was wrong about it but he never complained about it, it's just a minor issue and that's what it is...

On topic please.

Luke wrote: If that person was bothered about that 'Blue Monday '88-Dub-talk' than he could've said so, I was wrong about it but he never complained about it, it's just a minor issue and that's what it is...

good, i'm glad you feel that way..

i only want people to be correct, and there are plenty of resources on this board, the new order discography, and discogs.com ..

i know its very confusing to keep track of all their releases, i get them mixed up a lot too..

feel free to ask me any question about these remasters, and i'll try to answer them..

we're all new order fans here..

peace..

later -1

here's the waveforms for 'the perfect kiss' , from the album..

the original cd version is on top, with the horrible version from 'the single's below..

and here is the cd version vs 'the remaster'.. much, much better..

the frequency response and volume are improved to me anyways..

later -1

Thank you for doing this. It helps to know beforehand what will sound like shit, and what wont, shame about the bonus disc though.

well,

as for the bonus disc, i mentioned i'm happy that finally the full version of 'the perfect kiss' is on there, along with the 2 versions of 'subculture'..

but yeah, i think we knew there wouldn't be any major suprises..

what is good, is the sound quality of the tracks..compared to the other releases..

later -1

So, to over simplify for the unwashed, can you tell if these are new digital recordings or just redone versions of the old CDs?

I always liked "Dub-Vulture", I thought it was hard and industrial at the time (funny how things seemed so hard and fast more than 20 years ago but seem tame now). Not much like it at the time except Cabaret Voltaire or maybe Big Black (in a more rock way). Thought the remix of "Sub-Culture" was really a funny exaggerated parody of then current pop, c'mon the female vocals with the subject matter of the song is totally absurd.

What about "Kiss of Death"? And what about "Shellcock"? I can understand why they didn't put the 9.41 version of "Shellshock", it definitely tested your patience at the time.

0_o wrote: So, to over simplify for the unwashed, can you tell if these are new digital recordings or just redone versions of the old CDs?

this is a subjective thing, i've listened over speakers and headphones a few times now to get a 'feel' for the sound changes..

but i really need to play them at the same time vs the regular cd versions to notice the differences...

for me, they DO sound different than the original versions, but its subtle...and for low-life, the differences are not that great..

if you look at the charts (and i'll post more), you'll see they didn't just amplify, or make 'louder' the sounds, there's actual variations in parts of the songs...

i'd like to post a sample, so you can tell the difference... but it will be a short one, so we don't have any issues...

I always liked "Dub-Vulture", I thought it was hard and industrial at the time (funny how things seemed so hard and fast more than 20 years ago but seem tame now). Not much like it at the time except Cabaret Voltaire or maybe Big Black (in a more rock way). Thought the remix of "Sub-Culture" was really a funny exaggerated parody of then current pop, c'mon the female vocals with the subject matter of the song is totally absurd.

yeah, i was pretty surprised to hear the backup vocalists in the remix, and thought it was just new order going in a different direction... since their previous 12" streak was so strong... and varied:

blue monday - techno / electronic confusion - beats / hip-hop thieves like us - melodic synth murder - album rock the perfect kiss - techno / electronic

it was very hard to even guess what direction they were going to go with the remix, especially since the album version was so rough/dry sounding..

What about "Kiss of Death"? And what about "Shellcock"? I can understand why they didn't put the 9.41 version of "Shellshock", it definitely tested your patience at the time.

well, they did miss out, but 'kiss of death' was fine on 'substance', and the issues with versions/length for 'shellshock' is yet another oversight/lost opportunity..

i have no problem with long mixes.. true dub is 10+ plus, elegia is 17,etc, etc, and of course a lot of their newer mixes are 10min or more..

later -1

Well... finally we get The Perfect Kiss 12 inch and the whole Subculture 12 inch on a disc. That, I must say, is a VERY good thing. But I'm most curious for the full Elegia because I missed out on Retro 5. Couldn't got my hands on a copy where ever I tried. I didn't even hear it, so it really will come as a surprise to me.

-1 wrote:

Luke wrote:

I beg your pardon?! It seems that you think you are Mr. Fucking God Himself on this forum?! I'll tell you what: I don't like the way you speak to al lot of people on this forum, that includes me.

By the way: you NEVER said that you were talking about a promo in this thread/case.

excuse me, i'm sorry if i had to correct you.. i apologize, and i can admit when i'm wrong.. (not saying it was the promo, its kind of hard to have the final product when it hasn't been sold yet..)..

why didn't you apologize to the person who you were trying to correct.. and admit you were wrong..

i didn't like the way you spoke to them, when you thought you were 'God'.... making them feel bad, and telling them that they don't know how new order songs are named, when in fact, it was you who didn't know..

and now you know how it feels to be corrected..

later -1

Hmmm... I thought I am 'God' Because a lot of people are always saying when they see me: "Oh God, that's him (again)!"

Luke wrote: Well... finally we get The Perfect Kiss 12 inch and the whole Subculture 12 inch on a disc. That, I must say, is a VERY good thing. But I'm most curious for the full Elegia because I missed out on Retro 5. Couldn't got my hands on a copy where ever I tried. I didn't even hear it, so it really will come as a surprise to me.

Luuk, stuur me anders even een mailtje...

-1 wrote: for me, they DO sound different than the original versions, but its subtle...and for low-life, the differences are not that great.. -1

Great, now I know I don't need to buy the remasters. The Centredate releases are just as fine.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Great, now I know I don't need to buy the remasters. The Centredate releases are just as fine.

i still think you should listen to the sample that i will put up..

you have to trust your own ears.. not MINE !

i can put up all the charts in the world, but it won't make a difference.. if you don't know what they mean..

i'm an old man, whose hearing is not that great.....

so give it a listen, and you might hear things differently that what i do..

i NEVER knew there was a volume drop or beats missing on 'blue monday' until someone mentioned it, and that was like that for 21 years !

later -1

-1 wrote: as you can see, there is a slightly better frequency response for the remaster especially on the high end, although the decibel levels are higher..

-1, those eq graphs are essentially identical... the pretty much negligible variations are likely due to the software displaying different volume levels slightly differently on the eq chart... i.e. it looks like the eq on both versions is exactly the same. there would be more variation between the two graphs if something had been actually changed in the mix.

interesting, actually, as it appears the only 'remastering' that was done was with compression (or more likely, just a brickwall limiter, and not even multiband compression or any harmonic accentuators.....

Tarbox23 wrote: -1, those eq graphs are essentially identical... the pretty much negligible variations are likely due to the software displaying different volume levels slightly differently on the eq chart... i.e. it looks like the eq on both versions is exactly the same. there would be more variation between the two graphs if something had been actually changed in the mix.

interesting, actually, as it appears the only 'remastering' that was done was with compression (or more likely, just a brickwall limiter, and not even multiband compression or any harmonic accentuators.....

I should put a disclaimer on my posts: *** I AM NOT A SOUND ENGINEER

and you would probably be right.....i can't really tell if it's just filtering, or they changed the original..

i'll post some samples here , of loud and quiet portions of the perfect kiss, from substance and from the remaster, and then you can judge for yourselves..

i'd be very interested in what you would find..

later -1

here's a one minute sample from 'the perfect kiss 12"'

here's the segment from 'substance' 4min:48sec-4min:58sec

this is the segue, from the frogs croaking, to the beat coming back in...

substance

remaster

substance (closeup)

remaster (closeup)

download the samples here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/147172112/no-p2-comp.rar.html

later -1

What is the artwork packaging quality going to be like? These remasters (at least initially) are not cheap. The original Factory vinyl and CD of Low-life were quite cool and unique. They could not replicate the cover artwork style with a digipak? I liked the factory version of the CD where you could choose which picture to show thru the semi-opaque paper.

0_o wrote: What is the artwork packaging quality going to be like? These remasters (at least initially) are not cheap. The original Factory vinyl and CD of Low-life were quite cool and unique. They could not replicate the cover artwork style with a digipak? I liked the factory version of the CD where you could choose which picture to show thru the semi-opaque paper.

sorry, no idea about the artwork / format / booklet or notes..

the promos only come with the titles on a plain white sleeve..

you'll have to wait another 8 days to be sure!!!!

later -1

I can fully understand why Elegia was edited. The 17 min version is pretty vile (especially the out of tune guitar playing(?) towards the end). The version on LL is sublime though.

NO Regret wrote: I can fully understand why Elegia was edited. The 17 min version is pretty vile (especially the out of tune guitar playing(?) towards the end). The version on LL is sublime though.

perhaps, but its still good insight into their recordings during this era.

much like the full 22 minute video 5-8-6 got trimmed down to 586 on the album..

later -1

much like the full 22 minute video 5-8-6 got trimmed down to 586 on the album..

it's a completely different track not an edit.

johnny james wrote:

much like the full 22 minute video 5-8-6 got trimmed down to 586 on the album..

it's a completely different track not an edit.

yeah i know, but my point was they started out with a much longer track... and used that to get to the a much shorter (and different) version...

that was my impression... unless they both had a completely different development cycle..

maybe i need to look into the history of those songs more..

i know the video version was commissioned for the actual 'video' that came out, and got editted down to 6 minutes for that, and then there were different parts for different 'touch' compilations..

at some point the song 'evolved' into a different album version....

later -1

well,

sad to say , a little more bad news..

looks like 'the perfect kiss 12", isn't quite so perfect after all.

the source they used, has a click at this point : 1min:08.710sec and here : 2min:32.513sec

i checked it against the 'substance' version, and that one is OK...

oh well, they tried.. (it's easy enough to fix them though).....

[****NOTE :by the way, i've re-ripped them to make sure the error was NOT introduced by my ripping software*]

later -1

Pretty useless though... What can be so difficult just to take the 'Substance' versions of that song editing to the original 12", like our welcome member Koen did years ago? (I guess you all know that the missing part of 'The Perfect Kiss' on 'Substance' does content in 'The Kiss Of Death'). ...just head shaking...

cheers,

|cv|