Log file - errors on the "Remastered" Factory Years CDs

djdust wrote:

MrDisco wrote:

Ally wrote: Found a skip at 5:25-26 during The Him on Movement.

Can anyone confirm this on another copy?

It doen't skip there on my copy.

I'm can't listen to these remasters now I'm expecting some new error skip or glitch any second.

Yep, there's a little glitch right there on my new CD too. Geez.

sorry,

again, i've checked both the original cd, which has no problem,

and on the version i have, (the promo), i can't find any glitches at all.. no skips/stutters, drop-outs, my version on the remaster seems to be fine..

i don't know, maybe a note seems to be repeating, and it sounds like an error?

maybe some copies got out that were bad?

later -1

greeneyes1 wrote:

djdust wrote:

Can anyone compare with the original CD to see if it is a source defect? (would seem a useful exercise since this seems to be the first sound defect reported on one of the non-bonus discs)

The original CD is definitely fine - it's just the new version of "The Him" that's glitched - right at the end....

Sad. Screwing up the original discs brings things to a new level of incompetance.

maybe,

but i've never scrutinized the originals, and only now am i hearing all the problems, and issues that already existed...

the remasters have made it possible to go back and do a comparison, to see if it really is a problem..

or if it's always been there...

don't be so quick to judge.

later -1

0_o wrote:

Maybe Warner can have a free download of software which will let everybody remaster these songs to their own standards. DYI.

there's already tons of free software out there that already do this..

you can get trial versions of soundforge, or if you want an open source program..

look for 'audacity'... and there are older programs too like cooledit 2000..

how much do you really want to fix? it's up to you... check out the vinyl mastering thread for more ideas..

later -1

we shouldn't have to fix anything.

sure, i have a copy of izotope ozone and sonar 8 and could go into my own collection, and (sadly) do a comparable job mastering my old new order lps and singles from 80s cds, on my studio monitors...

but you would THINK that would be Warner's and Hook's and Sumner's job.

i mean, if they want us to actually give them cash.

my cash is going towards a new .rex sound library. screw em. new order has finally become everything that when they started, they hated. full circle. perfect.

BOYCOTT!

djdust [quote user="Colin Simpson wrote: Do these new discs come with the all necessary software required for nitpicking ?

Hey mate, if you're not gonna add anything constructive, why not just say nothing and leave the rest of us alone to discuss it, ok?

So this is a 'constructive' thread ??

My mistake.....

-1 wrote:

don't be so quick to judge.

later -1

I agree, but, someone indicated "The original CD is definitely fine - it's just the new version of "The Him" that's glitched - right at the end...." and it's been promoted to a confirmed glitch on the original post.

I guess someone with both the original and non-promo remastered needs to do an A/B comparison if this is still in doubt.

If there was an error on the original Factory CD, why would that be an excuse? Isn't this the sort of thing "remastering" is meant to correct?

A/D converters have come a long way since 1985.

this thread has a problem in the posts...

later -1

In my opinion pointing out timings with mistakes is useless as some tracks are full of them. They already are completely destroyed. Anyone at Warners should hear "Mesh" and find ANY reason why this product has been released to the public. Who was the guy at the mastering desks? I won't complain about the tracklist, it is what it is, nobody will ever be happy. Maybe we should give Warners the list of songs which are DEFINITELY unacceptable and have to be replaced with new mastered ones. These are in my opinion:

Movement Bonus CD: Mesh: A joke. If you can't do better from the source tape, remaster from the 1991 CD single "Everything'S Gone Green".

P,C & L Bonus CD: Thieves Like Us: really bad master, replace it with the one on International.

Low-life: Sunrise on Disc one: Fix channel drop out Perfect Kiss, Subculture & Dubvulture 12"es: If you can't find a digital source, buy a clean copy of eBay, wash it with a record cleaning machine and digitize properly Shellshock: replace with the full length 12" or at least remaster the soundtrack CD version with the 4th verse.

Brotherhood Bonus CD: 1963: Use the Substance CD if no digital source available. TBTHOG 12": Again, a joke. Replace it with the International remaster. True Dub: Real True Dub please, FAC 183R, Side B.

Technique Bonus CD: Don't Do It: available on the FACD 223 single. remaster from there. Fine Line: use Canadian CD single. Round & Round 12": use FACD 263. Best & Marsh: already on RETRO disc 5 (copy & paste) Fine Time (Silk Mix): RETRO Disc 3, already remastered. Run 2, MTO: another try from 12" World in Motion (Carabinieri Mix): use promo FACD 293R.

Get a few collectors here involved who easily can provide the source material and replace the original CDs with new ones for free as soon as possible. Stop selling this bunch of crap immediately. The only way to save this embarrassing disaster.

joe davola wrote: In my opinion pointing out timings with mistakes is useless as some tracks are full of them. They already are completely destroyed. Anyone at Warners should hear "Mesh" and find ANY reason why this product has been released to the public. Who was the guy at the mastering desks? I won't complain about the tracklist, it is what it is, nobody will ever be happy. Maybe we should give Warners the list of songs which are DEFINITELY unacceptable and have to be replaced with new mastered ones. These are in my opinion:

Movement Bonus CD: Mesh: A joke. If you can't do better from the source tape, remaster from the 1991 CD single "Everything'S Gone Green".

P,C & L Bonus CD: Thieves Like Us: really bad master, replace it with the one on International.

Low-life: Sunrise on Disc one: Fix channel drop out Perfect Kiss, Subculture & Dubvulture 12"es: If you can't find a digital source, buy a clean copy of eBay, wash it with a record cleaning machine and digitize properly Shellshock: replace with the full length 12" or at least remaster the soundtrack CD version with the 4th verse.

Brotherhood Bonus CD: 1963: Use the Substance CD if no digital source available. TBTHOG 12": Again, a joke. Replace it with the International remaster. True Dub: Real True Dub please, FAC 183R, Side B.

Technique Bonus CD: Don't Do It: available on the FACD 223 single. remaster from there. Fine Line: use Canadian CD single. Round & Round 12": use FACD 263. Best & Marsh: already on RETRO disc 5 (copy & paste) Fine Time (Silk Mix): RETRO Disc 3, already remastered. Run 2, MTO: another try from 12" World in Motion (Carabinieri Mix): use promo FACD 293R.

Get a few collectors here involved who easily can provide the source material and replace the original CDs with new ones for free as soon as possible. Stop selling this bunch of crap immediately. The only way to save this embarrassing disaster.

I concur.

michael preda wrote:

joe davola wrote: In my opinion pointing out timings with mistakes is useless as some tracks are full of them. They already are completely destroyed. Anyone at Warners should hear "Mesh" and find ANY reason why this product has been released to the public. Who was the guy at the mastering desks? I won't complain about the tracklist, it is what it is, nobody will ever be happy. Maybe we should give Warners the list of songs which are DEFINITELY unacceptable and have to be replaced with new mastered ones. These are in my opinion:

Movement Bonus CD: Mesh: A joke. If you can't do better from the source tape, remaster from the 1991 CD single "Everything'S Gone Green".

P,C & L Bonus CD: Thieves Like Us: really bad master, replace it with the one on International.

Low-life: Sunrise on Disc one: Fix channel drop out Perfect Kiss, Subculture & Dubvulture 12"es: If you can't find a digital source, buy a clean copy of eBay, wash it with a record cleaning machine and digitize properly Shellshock: replace with the full length 12" or at least remaster the soundtrack CD version with the 4th verse.

Brotherhood Bonus CD: 1963: Use the Substance CD if no digital source available. TBTHOG 12": Again, a joke. Replace it with the International remaster. True Dub: Real True Dub please, FAC 183R, Side B.

Technique Bonus CD: Don't Do It: available on the FACD 223 single. remaster from there. Fine Line: use Canadian CD single. Round & Round 12": use FACD 263. Best & Marsh: already on RETRO disc 5 (copy & paste) Fine Time (Silk Mix): RETRO Disc 3, already remastered. Run 2, MTO: another try from 12" World in Motion (Carabinieri Mix): use promo FACD 293R.

Get a few collectors here involved who easily can provide the source material and replace the original CDs with new ones for free as soon as possible. Stop selling this bunch of crap immediately. The only way to save this embarrassing disaster.

I concur.

MAkes sense to me although, by all accounts the bonus discs arent remastered and are not advertised as such...

I compared the original factory Movement with the remaster. The glitch at the end of The Him on the remaster is not on the factory disc.

Colin Simpson wrote:

MAkes sense to me although, by all accounts the bonus discs arent remastered and are not advertised as such...

Well the are 'remastered' in some sense because compared to their original release (on cd in many cases) they are much worse. Not advertising them as 'remastered' would lead one to expect them to be exactly the same as the original release, not worse. They've been 'demastered'.

Incidentally I was just listening to the WIM carib-wotsit mix as featured on the 'connected 90s' compilation released just a few months ago, and could have sworn it sounds noticeably better than the one on the technique bonus disk, with no pops or clicks at the points where the latter one has them. Dunno if that one was from (better) vinyl or the original master, but what is going on there? If the compilation makers could master it properly why couldn't WB just a few months later? Baffling.

Pash wrote: I compared the original factory Movement with the remaster. The glitch at the end of The Him on the remaster is not on the factory disc.

Thanks for confirming.

I was just wondering how they managed to fuck this up so much when retro seems to be fine. They obviously had the original tapes for some of that or at least cleaned some vinyl.

blunt laser wrote: I was just wondering how they managed to fuck this up so much when retro seems to be fine. They obviously had the original tapes for some of that or at least cleaned some vinyl.

Nearly all of the tracks on RETRO were mastered from digital sources that had already been put on CD, which is why they sound only louder with different equalization.

Based on my experience of transferring vinyl to disc, the bonus disc tracks sound like they got butchered from an "auto pop removal" feature. I have an early version of Adobe Audition and there's an effect that scans the track for pops and clicks, but ends up removing chunks of data from the source to get rid of them. This results in the digital glitches and skips you hear in many of the bonus tracks. The better way to have done this is to fade a track in, equalize the high end out to remove the hiss, then sit through the whole track with headphones and manually zoom in and delete the pops by looking at the wave forms so it doesn't sound glitched.

A few years ago I've spent nearly an hour cleaning up The Jesus and Mary Chain's version of "Vegetable Man" from vinyl, only now to find it on the new B-Sides box set, haha.

Hey, I see the forthcoming JAMC box set is a Rhino/Warner Brothers release... I was looking forward to it and was gonna pre-order it, but after what's happened, I think I'll wait for some reviews first!

Wonder what source they've managed to source Vegetable Man from!

£50 Guy wrote: Hey, I see the forthcoming JAMC box set is a Rhino/Warner Brothers release... I was looking forward to it and was gonna pre-order it, but after what's happened, I think I'll wait for some reviews first!

Wonder what source they've managed to source Vegetable Man from!

I've already got a copy and it sounds great. The band were indeed directly involved with the project, unlike New Order. The demos are a little muddy sounding, but that's the nature of 20+ year old demo tapes. Vegetable Man sounds flawless, though there is a little hiss at the end of the track which might be due to the heavy distortion pedals rather than a source tape issue. Even the remastered version of Psychocandy couldn't clean up the fuzz from all those distortion pedals.

£50 Guy wrote: Hey, I see the forthcoming JAMC box set is a Rhino/Warner Brothers release... I was looking forward to it and was gonna pre-order it, but after what's happened, I think I'll wait for some reviews first!

Wonder what source they've managed to source Vegetable Man from!

It's fantastic sounding.

Especially the remastered Psychocandy-era stuff. And while it's not "-1" complete, if you've got this and the remastered albums (which have videos included), it's a great career overview for casual and completeist alike. Like you guys, Vegetable Man was the track I was most interested in and it didn't disappoint (though the vinyl still sounds better--less tinny).

Hi, I'm new to the board, a JD/NO fan for years. I e-mailed Warner too, hopefully everyone here will.

However, in case nothing constructive comes from this (i.e. replacement-discs), which pressings of the original CD's is the best buy (soundwise): The original Factory, the Qwest or the Centredate ones? I used to have the Centredate ones, but these did show signs of brown discolouration and so-called "CD-rot" in the long run.

fonzie9 wrote: Hi, I'm new to the board, a JD/NO fan for years. I e-mailed Warner too, hopefully everyone here will.

However, in case nothing constructive comes from this (i.e. replacement-discs), which pressings of the original CD's is the best buy (soundwise): The original Factory, the Qwest or the Centredate ones? I used to have the Centredate ones, but these did show signs of brown discolouration and so-called "CD-rot" in the long run.

Dunno the answer, but I can say that of well over a 1000 cds, the only one I've ever had get that cd oxidation thing was a centredate one - Republic, which went brown very quickly. That might be the only centredate cd I have, not sure - are all the London releases centredate? Maybe they do have manufacturing problems?

Here's my contribution to the horrorlist of errors:

Soundwise:

1-9) ticks heard in TBTHOG at 0.08-0.13-0.15-0.23-0.29-0.39-6.53-6.58-7.00 10) Loveless: tick at 0.04 (can anyone confirm this?) *Update: this is on the original Factory disc*

Bonusdisc CDtext errors (my CDplayer can read this, can anybody confirm all of the below errors?)

Movement: 11) Track 6 CDtext reads "Mesh", disc reads "C&W" 12) Track 8 CDtext reads "Cries and whispers", disc reads "Mesh" 13) No title entered in CDtext 14) No artist entered in CDtext 15) Temptation does not add 7" in CDtext, other tracks do have this additional info 16) Temptation does not add 12" in CDtext, other tracks do have this additional info

P, C & L: 17) No title entered in CDtext 18) No artist entered in CDtext 19) Track 4 CDtext reads "Theives like us" 20) Track 7 CDtext reads "Theives like us" (instrumental)

Low-life: 21) No CDtext information entered at all

Brotherhood: * Note: Title info reads "Bonus disc 8" which is the only correct CDtext title entry of all 5 bonusdiscs*

22. Bizarre love triangle does not add (shep pettibone remix), other tracks do have this additional info

Technique: 23) Title info reads Bonus disc 4, which is incorrect (should be disc 10), but is in consistency with the Rhino spine-numbers:

Movement reads 2564693694 Technique reads 2564693697 (thus Disc 4 in CDtext is incorrect, should be disc 10) P, C & L reads 2564693698 Brotherhood reads 2564693699 (thus Disc 8 in CDtext is correct) Low-life reads 2564693700

24. track 3 reads "Round round" in CDtext
25. track 4 reads "Best marsh" in CDtext

fonzie9 wrote:

10. Loveless: tick at 0.04 (can anyone confirm this?)

This click is on the original Factory CD and vinyl...

Pash wrote:

fonzie9 wrote:

10. Loveless: tick at 0.04 (can anyone confirm this?)

This click is on the original Factory CD and vinyl...

Thanks for checking!

I was so excited about this project... But I guess I have to wait for sometime...

Japanese Warner Music has posponded their release date for

"TBA"

Does anybody know about American release ones like? I wrote Rhino but no response.

WB Japan are doing the right thing. Hopefully they'll be released once they have been properly remastered.

They are still listed for November 11 release in the US - if they really are in the shops next week, I'd be surprised if they didn't have the same errors as the UK release. I wouldn't spend a cent on these, at least not until there is confirmation that they are new, fresh, error-free masters.

I guarantee that they won't be fixed if released next week in the states. It will take them the rest of the year at least to re-source and remaster them all.

I emailed Dutch TV text services and they placed this:

Anyone who wants me to translate it? Believe me, it contains the same info as documented in this thread ;-)

CD text errors TECHNIQUE bonus disc: Title reads 'Disc 4 Suplementary material'?? Lowlife bonus disc:No text at all. PCL bonus disc:No title Movement bonus disc:No title. Mesh and cries and whispers reversed. Brotherhood bonus disc:Title reads 'Disc 8 supplementary material'??

None of the origianl album cds have CD text, i don;t know if that is intentional or not.

JAMC box set is superb well worth the money (if you're a fan!) Unreleased tracks, different viersions, rare b sides etc. Nicley packaged well done the Mary Chain