376 replies · 124,945 views
No word on it yet. It would take at least a year to fix this mess, but what build up the anxiety is that there is no word from the band or label - they could put this to rest if they wanted.
Our only hope is Hookie through his MySpace blog, we could catch up with him. I encourage all of us to go and question him on this matter, via MySpace. His address is MySpace.com/PeterHookNewOrder
As far as I know, he was the only one who actually spoke deeper on this subject.
Very well noticed! It says June 16 2009.
Could it be the fixed versions? Gosh, I hope it's not FRIGGING loud... Coz fixed and loud wouldn't be ok
fonzie9 wrote: Hi,
However, in case nothing constructive comes from this (i.e. replacement-discs), which pressings of the original CD's is the best buy (soundwise): The original Factory, the Qwest or the Centredate ones?
The Centredate CD's I found out they are mostly re-issues, and have the volume cranked up. The first issues to get affected by the loudness war. Stick with the Qwest or Factory ones from their original years of issue.
indiearchivist wrote: NEW ORDER 2008 COLLECTOR'S EDITION DOUBLE CDs "The Factory Years"
This is a log file of complaints so far, and my intention is to update it as they arrive. The list is not finished yet - keep them coming!
The list below was originally referring to the October 2008 Rhino UK/Europe release, but THESE ERRORS STILL HAVEN'T BEEN FIXED FOR THE U.S. RELEASE (NOV. 11, 2008). WARNING - DO NOT BUY THESE YET, UNLESS YOU WANT FAULTY DISCS!!!
[orange]UPDATE (May 2009): The band and label are working on re-sourcing and re-mastering all the CDs - new CDs will apparently be released (16th June?) 2009. Watch this space! It hasn't yet been confirmed whether the tracks have been properly mastered this time, or if there's been attempts to "repair" the faulty masters. I'd suggest do NOT pre-order these yet - wait until we have confirmation that they are definitely error-free.[/orange]
Number of confirmed errors: 300 and counting...(well, I suppose we have given up counting by now...) (all the glitches in "Fine Line" etc. not included - anybody got timings for these?)
By no means is this a definitive list - there's likely more errors that haven't yet been spotted. If you notice any, please say so! Exact time for glitches may be one or two seconds off, depending on what hardware you use. Warning: This list is not to be used for software de-noising or other types of "error correction". The point I wish to make is that more or less all of these tracks are completely unusable and need to be remastered from the correct (analogue/digital master) sources.
Some lessons one could learn from this:
- It's not a good idea to record tracks from vinyl (or other poor quality sources) and try to pass them off as a "remastered" CD release.
- It's a better idea to QA the products BEFORE they go out to the shops, than afterwards.
- No wonder people turn to illegal downloads if this is the quality you get when you pay dearly for a "deluxe edition"
Movement (1981):
- Dreams Never End
- Truth
- Senses
- Chosen Time
- I.C.B
- The Him - Glitch at 5:25-5:26
- Doubts Even Here
- Denial
Movement - bonus disc:
- Ceremony
- Temptation - Version info missing from CDtext entry (click at 3:47 - unconfirmed)
- In A Lonely Place (levels are maxed out which has caused clipping - unconfirmed)
- Everything's Gone Green
- Procession
- Cries & Whispers (mislabelled as "Mesh" - unconfirmed) (glitches at 0:06, 0:07, 0:08, 0:28, 0:34, and 0:45 - unconfirmed)
- Hurt - Glitches at 0:00, 0:37, 1:05, 1:07, 3:04, 3:48, 4:06, 6:19, 6:24, 7:07, 7:26, 7:59)
- Mesh (mislabelled as "Cries & Whispers" - unconfirmed) - Evidence of scratched vinyl at 0:28, 0:30, 0:35, 0:37, 1:05, 1:07, 1:09, 1:12, 1:14, 1:19, 1:21, 1:40, 1:41, 2:08, 2:09, 2:17, 2:18, 2:19, 2:24, 2:26, 2:28, 2:33, 2:35. In addition, digital glitches at: 0:07, 0:20, 0:44, 0:58, 1:00, 1:25, 1:33, 1:37, 1:44, 1:47, 1:49, 1:56, 1:58, 2:12, 2:22, 2:37, 2:40, 2:49, 2:54, 2:56. Sudden convergence to mono at 1:35.
- Ceremony (Alt. Version) -L/R channels swapped
- Temptation - Version info missing from CDtext entry. Left channel crackle at 0:24 CDtext: "Artist" information is missingCDtext: "Title" information is missing
Power, Corruption and Lies (1983): 1, Age of consent 2, We all stand 3, The village 4, 586 ("abrupt ending", "drops the last 4 bass notes" - unconfirmed) 5, Your silent face 6, Ultraviolence 7, Ecstasy 8, Leave me alone
Power, Corruption and Lies - bonus disc: 1, Blue Monday (L/R pans 0:07[sudden], and between 0:19 and 2:24. At 2:24 it pans back again. Unconfirmed whether this is on the original 12 inch) 2, The Beach 3, Confusion - Clicks at 4:04 and 6:00 (Left channel click at 8:06 - unconfirmed whether this is on the original 12 inch) 4, Thieves like us CDtext track info says "ThEIves Like Us" 5, Lonesome Tonight (clicks at 0:40 and 0:59 - unconfirmed) 6, Murder - "Clicks" at 0:35, 1:08, 1:29, 1:43, 2:03, 2:31, 2:43, 2:50, 3:00, 3:19, 3:26 7, Thieves like us (instrumental) (click at 1:03 - unconfirmed) CDtext track info says "ThEIves Like Us" 8, Confusion (instrumental) CDtext: "Artist" information is missingCDtext: "Title" information is missing
Low-Life (1985) Digipak spine says "1983"
- Love Vigilantes 4:19
- The Perfect Kiss 4:50
- This Time of Night 4:45
- Sunrise 6:01 - Sudden volume drop in right channel at 2:36
- Elegia 4:55
- Sooner Than You Think 5:11
- Sub-culture 4:58
- Face Up 5:06 Overall: **the album tracks "sound like they've been mastered from the Centredate cd's and not the masters themselves" "this release is a massive disappointment. I even would advise anyone not to buy it" "Sleeve notes full of errors" "Did anyone proof read these?"**Low-Life – bonus disc
- The Perfect Kiss 8:50 - Dubious sound quality, clicks, 'crackles', and pops at 0:07, 0:11, 0:16, 0:20, 0:23, 0:25, 0:30, 0:42, 0:50, 0:54, 1:08, 1:19, 1:23, 1:28, 1:32, 1:38, 1:56, 2:12, 2:32, 3:01, 3:03, 3:10, 3:11, 3:15, 3:24, 3:29, 3:40, 3:54, 3:57, 4:52, 4:59, 5:04, 5:06, 5:11, 5:13, 5:15, 5:18, 5:20, 5:27, 5:41, 6:08, 6:09, 6:37, 6:42, 6:44, 6:47, 6:51, 6:56, 7:12, 7:47, 7:49, 8:10, 8:15, 8:20, 8:36, and 8:38.
- Subculture 7:27 - Glitches "run the whole way through it", namely at: 0:02, 0:04, 0:07, 0:08, 0:23, 0:48, 0:56, 1:24, 1:32, 1:58, 2:09, 2:47, 2:50, 3:13, 3:52, 3:55, 3:57, 3:59, 4:30, 4:35, 4:48, 4:55, 4:57, 5:04, 5:18, 5:46, 5:49, 6:38, and 6:52.
- Shellshock - Not what it says: plays the Substance edit
, not the full 12" version. Sounds "shitty, more bass but also no presence"
- Shame Of The Nation
- Elegia 17:30
- Let’s Go - "Clicks" at 1:24 and 3:23*(at 1:31 it sounds like the tape slowed suddenly - unconfirmed)*
- Salvation Theme 2:16
- Dub Vulture 7:56 - Has "rumble" as if it were taken from vinyl. Clicks and pops at 0:07, 0:09, 0:14 .... CDtext: "Artist" information is missingCDtext: "Title" information is missingCDtext: track titles are missing Overall, "mastering for the bonus tracks is on the loud side" and clipping may be present. "The tracks on the bonus disc sound mostly awful". "I just can't believe this release passed the quality control of band, management and label."
Brotherhood (1986) 1, Paradise 2, weirdo 3, As it is when it was 4, Broken promise 5, Way of life 6, Bizarre love triangle 7, All day long 8, Angel dust 9, Every little counts 10, State of the nation (WTF? If they were to replicate the original LP track listing, this track should never have been included on the main disc)
Brotherhood - bonus disc 1, Bizarre love triangle (shep pettibone remix) - Version info missing from CDtext entry 2, 1963 - Clicks at 0:04, 0:25, 0:28, 0:30, 0:39, 0:46, 0:55, 1:14, 1:37, 1:56, 2:03, 2:07, 2:14, 2:42, 3:07, 3:29, 3:40, 3:54, 4:25, 4:32, 4:34, 4:40, 4:55, 5:00, 5:16, and 5:25. "Stutter" at 3:36. In addition, "the track has a lot of clipping" 3, True Faith (shep pettibone remix) 4, Touched by the hand of god - Dubious sound quality, clicks, pops and digital glitches at: 0:08, 0:13, 0:15, 0:23, 0:29, 0:39, 6:53, 6:58, and 7:00. 5, Blue Monday ‘88 6, Evil dust - "sounds like it was recorded directly from vinyl", "crackles or some sort of skip at the start" 7, True Dub - Not what it says: plays a 1994 Tall Paul "eschreamer dubbier" remix
Technique (1989) 1, Fine Time 2, All the way 3, love less (click at 0:04 - unconfirmed) 4, Round and round 5, Guilty partner 6, Run 7, Mr disco 8, vanishing point 9, Dream attack "Sleeve notes full of errors" "Did anyone proof read these?"
Technique - bonus disc 1, Don’t do it - Clicks and pops at 0:08, 0:18, 0:35, 0:40, 1:00, 2:25, 2:27, 3:01, 3:05, 3:07, 3:32, 4:12, 4:17, and 4:19. ( a skip near the beginning of the track - unconfirmed) 2, Fine line - A myriad of crackles and "jumps" 3, Round and round - CDtext track info says "Round round". Dubious sound quality, clicks, pops and digital glitches. "4 pops/irregular static within the first 20 seconds". Problems at 0:05, 0:07, 0:10, 0:16, 0:28, 0:32, 0:36, 0:41, 0:48, 0:52, 0:54, 0:56, 0:59, 1:05, 1:30, 1:39, 2:28, 2:30, 2:32, 2:41, 2:43, 2:52, 3:03, 3:15, 4:19, 5:18, 5:34, 6:32, and 6:34. 4, Best and marsh CDtext track info says "Best marsh"(dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 5, Run 2 - Plays the extended version (not listed as such). Sound quality suggests it was "mastered" from vinyl. Clicks and pops at: 0:03, 0:10, 0:17, 0:24, 0:38, 0:41, 0:45, 0:50, 1:02, 1:13, 1:40, 2:02, 2:39, 3:10, 3:58, 4:05, 4:12, 4:15, 4:29, 4:42, 4:56, and 5:10. 6, MTO - Plays the "minus mix" (not listed as such) 7, Fine time (silk mix) (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 8, Vanishing point (instrumental) (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 9, world in motion (carabinieri mix)- Listed as "cabinieri". Sound quality suggests it was "mastered" from vinyl CDtext title information says "Bonus disc 4". Overall, "Be aware that the mastering here is horrible. There are audible pops and snaps on some of the bonus disc music indicating it was ripped directly from vinyl and NEVER cleaned up. You can get better bootleg MP3s than this mess."
Overall comments (applying to particular tracks and/or all of the above): "sounds like an MP3 vinyl rip with a lot of compression" "I'm not paying good cash for 'remasters' that in some places sound as if they were played on a cheap turntable through a computer sound card replete with crackles and skips."
Thanks to everybody who's reported errors - hopefully something constructive can come out of this.
3, love less (click at 0:04 - unconfirmed)
confirmed! :(
The click at 0.04 on Love Less is on the original release (vinyl, CD and cassette) - it wasn't introduced on the Technique remaster.
Hey everybody, long time lurker, big time fan, I actually broke down and dropped an email to Rhino Records in regards to the status of corrected version of the re-releases and got the following response:
Thank you for your email. The corrected versions are not available yet. I’ve been told that they should be available within a few weeks. I will contact you when the corrected versions become available. If you have any other questions, please let me know.Dr. Rhino
I don't want to get everybody all excited, but hopefully there is some truth to this especially when taken into account with the new Amazon listings. Hope this helps.
DC
DC73 wrote:
Thank you for your email. The corrected versions are not available yet. I’ve been told that they should be available within a few weeks. I will contact you when the corrected versions become available. If you have any other questions, please let me know.Dr. Rhino
I'm afraid this means nothing, since a NOOLer got the same reply few weeks ago.
Hélène's friend wrote:
DC73 wrote:
Thank you for your email. The corrected versions are not available yet. I’ve been told that they should be available within a few weeks. I will contact you when the corrected versions become available. If you have any other questions, please let me know.Dr. Rhino
I'm afraid this means nothing, since a NOOLer got the same reply few weeks ago.
Well, it's nice to know they haven't forgotten about it.
Yup, I got that same exact reply "a few weeks" ago. Seems they don't really know when the corrected discs will be ready.
AngryRobot wrote: Yup, I got that same exact reply "a few weeks" ago. Seems they don't really know when the corrected discs will be ready.
It was SUMMER...now it's AUTUMN!
E-mail from Rhino today:
Thank you for your email and your patience. The replacement New Order discs are scheduled to become available on 8/25/09. Also at that time, the 5 albums will be re-released to retail outlets, with upgraded audio.
If you would like to receive corrected replacement discs, please reply to this email with your name, shipping address, a list of the discs that you need replaced and a digital photo of your discs. We will send out your replacements as soon as possible.
Thank you again for your patience and understanding in this matter.
^ But if that's the case you won't have the corrected typos and problems on the sleeve art there were mentioned (assuming they fix those too...)
Ryan wrote: ^ But if that's the case you won't have the corrected typos and problems on the sleeve art there were mentioned (assuming they fix those too...)
Why? The mail doesn't mention that they will not send the full package (box,sleeve,CD).
Hélène's friend wrote:
Ryan wrote: ^ But if that's the case you won't have the corrected typos and problems on the sleeve art there were mentioned (assuming they fix those too...)
Why? The mail doesn't mention that they will not send the full package (box,sleeve,CD).
I certainly hope they do! It's just that they said "discs," which sounded to me like they just meant they'd send... two single discs, without the packaging. Time will tell.
I ran into an interesting review of this "remasters":
http://www.sharoma.com/trading/neworder.htm
It says:
I do not for one minute believe Peter Hook's excuses that it was the record company's cutbacks that were to blame. He himself obviously did not take a front seat position with these releases as he damn well should have done. Bernard Sumner doesn't care about the songs and admits to not even owning Movement - his apathy is upsetting but excuses him from taking the blame. Hook, on the other hand, makes a poor argument.
I will have to agree with this guy. I think New Order themselves were never interested in deliver a quality product.
Anyways... the question is... DID ANYONE BUY AND GOT HIS HANDS ON THE NEW AVAILABLE AMAZON CD'S THAT ARE DATED 16th JUNE 2009 ON THE AMAZON WEBSITE? COZ WE NEED A TESTEMONIAL ABOUT THESE PRODUCTS!!!!!
Dr. Rhino answer me:
The news reissues are the ones with the corrected audio.
http://www.rhino.com/store/ArtistCatalog.lasso?Artist=New%20Order
Please note: Our production department has recently reminded me that, in accordance with our initial statement, only the bonus discs of each New Order reissue have been corrected. The exception to this is disc one of Technique.
So, what I want to know is if the first disc of each release was faulty too..
regards, edu
whiteduke wrote: Dr. Rhino answer me:
The news reissues are the ones with the corrected audio.
http://www.rhino.com/store/ArtistCatalog.lasso?Artist=New%20Order
Please note: Our production department has recently reminded me that, in accordance with our initial statement, only the bonus discs of each New Order reissue have been corrected. The exception to this is disc one of Technique.
So, what I want to know is if the first disc of each release was faulty too..
regards, edu
That was a disappointing statement. We sure do not know how these first discs have been mastered, as in Low Life, that there is a suspicion of being a "Centredate" CD copy, just louder. Very amateur. We as fans have been disappointed *ONCE AGAIN*. No proper releases of back catalogue.
I don't think we will ever see any decent stuff from New Order. Peter Hook busy with his silly things (I am really *NOT* interested in Freebass and his stupid book). Bernard is ackwardly strange in his new project Bad Lieutenant. I mean, these guys want New Order to *explode* and don't care one bit about the catalogue they have built. They don't even own copies of New Order albums. I guess New Order for them became a pile of ressentiment and bitterness they don't want to go back to it. Just like you're having to face your ex-wife after a bloody divorce, everyday on breakfast. Insane.
I hope this stupid book fail, and I hope Bad L. and Freebass aren't listened anywhere. I burst in anger right now, as a loyal fan I have been...
whiteduke wrote: Dr. Rhino answer me:
The news reissues are the ones with the corrected audio.
http://www.rhino.com/store/ArtistCatalog.lasso?Artist=New%20Order
Please note: Our production department has recently reminded me that, in accordance with our initial statement, only the bonus discs of each New Order reissue have been corrected. The exception to this is disc one of Technique.
So, what I want to know is if the first disc of each release was faulty too..
regards, edu
That's odd, too me one of the most glaring and obvious errors was the sound cutting out and fading back in again on one channel during 'Sunrise' on 'Low-life' - surely that needed fixing?? Didn't notice anything too bad in Technique...
Andy
That was a disappointing statement. We sure do not know how these first discs have been mastered, as in Low Life, that there is a suspicion of being a "Centredate" CD copy, just louder. Very amateur. We as fans have been disappointed *ONCE AGAIN*. No proper releases of back catalogue
They mastered them from the original tapes, and oversaw the process right from the beginning.
It was the second disc material that was left to Warner's and botched up.
The number of "faults" on the first discs are fairly minimal, and are probably present on the original tapes (though maybe not that little glitch on The Him). The sound and mastering of these albums is more about personal preference than actual errors.
johnny james wrote:
That was a disappointing statement. We sure do not know how these first discs have been mastered, as in Low Life, that there is a suspicion of being a "Centredate" CD copy, just louder. Very amateur. We as fans have been disappointed *ONCE AGAIN*. No proper releases of back catalogue
They mastered them from the original tapes, and oversaw the process right from the beginning.
It was the second disc material that was left to Warner's and botched up.
The number of "faults" on the first discs are fairly minimal, and are probably present on the original tapes (though maybe not that little glitch on The Him). The sound and mastering of these albums is more about personal preference than actual errors.
Well, then my personal preference would be to have Sunrise fixed 
johnny james wrote:
They mastered them from the original tapes, and oversaw the process right from the beginning.
Are you sure they are mastered from the master tapes? What about indiearchivist statement:
Overall: the album tracks "sound like they've been mastered from the Centredate cd's and not the masters themselves" "this release is a massive disappointment. I even would advise anyone not to buy it" "Sleeve notes full of errors" "Did anyone proof read these?"
Well I just *HOPE* the bonus discs have the right mixes now.
I asked "Dr. Rhino" if Low Life was going to be fixed due to the egregious error on Sunrise. Their polite but very disappointing response:
Dear Nick,
Thank you for your email and input.
There are no plans to reissue a corrected disc 1 for Low Life, at this time.
Nevertheless, I will forward your message to our suggestion box.
Dr. Rhino
It seems that Frank Arkwright has remastered the re-issued vinyls who are coming now - he did the remastering on the smiths latest which was really good. This must mean that they have another remastering that the cd's. Here's a link to a bundle offer:
http://www.rhino.co.uk/rhino-store/products,new-order-vinyl-plus-lp-bundle\_2773.htm
patrik forssell wrote: It seems that Frank Arkwright has remastered the re-issued vinyls who are coming now - he did the remastering on the smiths latest which was really good. This must mean that they have another remastering that the cd's. Here's a link to a bundle offer:
http://www.rhino.co.uk/rhino-store/products,new-order-vinyl-plus-lp-bundle\_2773.htm
These don't appear to come with the b sides and remixes though.
Whoa, that's insane! To think a band like New Order could release these monstrosities...were they even consulted? Or was the mastering guy too busy counting his cash or something?
I did the download of "Low Life" in the Rhino's Vinyl Plus website with the code included on the new LP re-issue and the channel drop on "Sunrise" were not corrected. But, I still didn't hear the new vinyl yet. At moment I'm in Barcelona and my turntable is in my home in Brazil. When I come back to my country I will listen that vinyl re-issue carefully to check the errors.
(excuse me for the bad english, guys!)
DjBr wrote: I ran into an interesting review of this "remasters":
http://www.sharoma.com/trading/neworder.htm
It says:
I do not for one minute believe Peter Hook's excuses that it was the record company's cutbacks that were to blame. He himself obviously did not take a front seat position with these releases as he damn well should have done. Bernard Sumner doesn't care about the songs and admits to not even owning Movement - his apathy is upsetting but excuses him from taking the blame. Hook, on the other hand, makes a poor argument.
I will have to agree with this guy. I think New Order themselves were never interested in deliver a quality product.
Anyways... the question is... DID ANYONE BUY AND GOT HIS HANDS ON THE NEW AVAILABLE AMAZON CD'S THAT ARE DATED 16th JUNE 2009 ON THE AMAZON WEBSITE? COZ WE NEED A TESTEMONIAL ABOUT THESE PRODUCTS!!!!!
A got copies from "Movement" and "Low Life" that appeared in the records shops from Barcelona after 16th june. I think they are - finally! - the re-remasters... Now they have an extra booklet with the corrected tracklisting from all five Factory Years albuns + info (catalogue numbers, studios, producers, etc). In the bonus discs I didn't hear the clicks and scratches of the early ones anymore. But, the channel drop on "Sunrise" is still there.
