New Order Collector Editions .... Does The Truth Hurt?? (Oh dear, what a complete crock of crap, as expected).

This really needs to be got off my chest peeps....

Well the moment had arrived and on Monday, we finally got to see what all the fuss was about and how these much-vaunted and feverishly-anticipated "remastered" artefacts would look like in the flesh (or plastic and card, if you really have to be pedantic), so to speak.....

And.....[cue fanfare and mass holding of breath].....

They're.......

UTTER FUCKING RUBBISH!!!

As expected - the contents of the additional "bonus" CD are disappointing enough - talk about being completely shortchanged. Yes, we KNEW that we would be sold short weeks before when we got wind of the tracklistings on this forum .... but to actually have the finished thing on the racks and to be able to have a look inside them in order to examine the presentation, quality, fine detailing, etc.... was another thing entirely.

And blow me if it wasn't enough to make one's heart sink fast and have one itching to get their hands around the necks of the people responsible for such an almighty cop out..

First of all - why the hell has the Brotherhood cover been done with State Of The Nation's sleeve superimposed across it? Whose clever mind-blowing idea in the design dept was this? Talk about "staying true to the original album artwork" - my arse! What a fucking swizz! Total utter sacrilege if you ask me! Could it not be even remotely metallic in texture like the way even the fucking Centredate/Warners reissue looked way back then? Of course not - no hey look! It's tacky substandard SHIT!!!!!

Secondly, on closer examination, what prompted Warners to do the whole stinking shebang on the cheap (as is increasingly their wont - but then you didn't get this sort of shoddiness even with the remastered double CD sets for REM did you??) by SCANNING the original vinyl record label designs for printing on the CDs (the bitmapped type on the Low Life CD is the most telling and galling of all)? Did they not have access to the original artwork (as well as original master tapes from which they "remastered" the whole lot, in all likelihood)?

Thirdly, why couldn't the "bonus" CD also be printed in a similar design instead of resorting to the utterly predictable and tedious-as-fuck (read "1000 per cent uninspired and cheapskate") WHITE with Helvetica text yet again ranged across the top showing the desultory additional tracklisting?

Fourthly, the inner booklet - again a completely wasted opportunity. Once again, all white with helvetica text. Unlike the Joy Division booklets, these contain absolutely fuck all of any interest - no [exclusive and unseen?] band pictures, no pages exhibiting the rest of the singles artworks as we might have hoped. Not even any proper credits for the non-album material for goodness sakes....

I find it absolutely criminal that Warners / London are hell bent on continually short-changing and fobbing off the band's fanbase with half-hearted, half-baked, semi-conciliatory gestures such as this. Every time there is a golden opportunity to set things straight and have every single New Order track that has never previously been available on CD presented in the ideal format (and let's face it, if other artists can have this done with their reissues what is it that is stopping New Order or the people who own the rights to their catalogue for fuck's sakes?? It's not such a Herculean task surely is it???), London Warner just have to go and make a fucking dog's breakfast of it and produce what amounts to a pathetic compromise option.

For example, take the Confusion 12" (FAC 93). What was it that dictated that ALL FOUR tracks from this release could not be included in the Extras CD that was packaged with PC&L? In Low Life's case - what the hell is Shame Of The Nation doing on this companion Extras CD? Surely it should be on Brotherhood as it was the same year (1986)? And why in heaven's name has Low Life's Extras CD included just the A-side from FAC 123 12" and not the two B-sides that also appeared on FACT 100C (The Kiss Of Death and Perfect Pit)? Elegia might be the full 17 min version here but surely there is space for 80 mins of music on each CD!

Just as gallingly, Technique likewise doesn't feature the entirety of the beautiful CD booklet from its original release showing all the colour variations of the front sleeve (nor the equally dazzling artworks that graced its three attendant single releases or even, indeed, World In Motion)..... I could go on but I think you get the idea!

This sort of sloppiness and lack of attention to detail to at least make some sort of effort at being comprehensive shows how much contempt Warners (or indeed the compilers of these risible "Bonus" CDs) have towards the band's devoted fanbase. Furthermore - if Hooky was supposed to also have had a say in what was included and omitted then shame on him too - you'd think he of all people would best identify with the thoughts and views of the devoted fans. God knows this sort of waiting around has gone on long enough what with the ill fated Recycle project and its uselessly desultory successor Retro (not to mention The Best/Rest Of, International, and Singles).

This really is the last straw for me now, it pains me to say. From having waited all this time - for this? Yet another piece of crap product from Warners that really will test the patience and resolve of every New Order completist in the land. I'm sorry but, unlike most of these completists who may well fork out for these five shoddy products without so much as a moment's hesitation for proper evaluation, I won't be touching them with a bargepole or allowing them to grace my collection even if each one was reduced to a fiver or less at FOPP records. We really are better off compiling and making our own definitive remastered collections at this rate. The whole thing sucks runny dog plop. What a fucking waste. Warners are a bunch of stupid idiots if they're going to assume that everybody is going to be conned in such a way.

They at least managed to do something passable and worthwhile with the three Joy Division reissues..... so why the fuck couldn't they at least do likewise with New Order?

I think I'm going to buy the new Oasis album instead........at least here you get a nice choice of formats.

truth

Sense(s)

ah,Mark the Macc,the voice of reason!

Says it just like it is,i salute you sir!

^^

I'm a an art teacher. Aesthetics is everything. Packaging of sacred product EVEN MORE SO. London Records have the fucking GALL to catalogue these abominations with the subtitle "The Factory Years" when they've effectively SHAT on the label's design legacy from a great height - even getting the year wrong on one of the releases. Fucking hell man, that's just NOT ON baby!

Totally agree.

The only decent thing London has done in all their years of stewardship of the catalogue is the Joy Division "Heart & Soul" boxset everything else has been complete shite.

Ain't bought them.Will pick em up in the bargain bin in a few months though.

You mean you were able to examine the Cds and booklets in HMV , By Eck? Thought they would have been sealed

johnny wrote: Ain't bought them.Will pick em up in the bargain bin in a few months though.

Well, as I said above, I won't be doing anything of the sort. As a matter of fact, I'd rather buy The Killers Box Set actually whenever that comes out..... :D:

johnny wrote:

You mean you were able to examine the Cds and booklets in HMV , By Eck? Thought they would have been sealed

No, not HMV Johnny, it was in FOPP whilst me and the wife were browsing in Manchester yesterday afternoon as I had a day off. Most of the CDs were plastic-wrapped, but fortuitously one or two of each title was left unwrapped so I was able to "get inside them" and have a closer look, arf! And I DID NOT LIKE WHAT I SAW !!!!!!!

Won't buy them.

I actually bought Movement for the full length Hurt, and Mesh, but having listened to them, and compared the main disc with my mighty original Factory CD, it went straight back, to be replaced by 808 State's 90 - properly fucking remastered with sleeve notes and pictures and fucking everything.

I've really had it with this lot - they can go fuck themselves, I've better stuff to spend my hard earned on.

No more chances. It's over. The end of of a once-satisfying relationship.

Fuck off.

Yep,totally

The end of the line for me too. I will never buy these, even if they're just a few cents a disc.

But I decided this back in August when I saw the tracklisting for the bonus stuff (which was a little shorter than a few weeks later).

When I heard about the audio clicks/pops/drop-outs, it made me sooooooo angry ... and I didn't even buy the lot!!!

A week ago I saw the artwork for those "Collectors Editions" in Amsterdam and was shocked about that one too. Firstly they weren't sealed! Then, for instance, the backside of the Technique album looked exactly the same as the older one. No information about the 2nd disc.

Talking about information: here we go to the third part of the mistakes (which is already pretty unforgiveable if you ask me): The booklets are about the WORST I have EVER seen Deluxe Editions/Collectors Editions-wise. Here are errors too. London/Rhino must (have) really HATE(D) New Order to do THIS kind of a job to one of the most important bands in the world (at least in London's so called "Factory Years"). It really went downwards after Factory collapsed, with this a a total downer for all of us ... It's just so sad ... we all lost ... we all ...

Mark, you're talking about design and texts, what about the sound? You have not listened to THEM!!!!!

Here's a truth that will hurt the waveform posters..........

REMASTERS CANNOT, BY DEFINITION, BE ANY BETTER THAN THE ORIGINAL.

Information and signal is ONLY LOST via processing, never gained, you cannot get back anything that was left out of the original, it's a basic law of recording.

People talking about new vocal bleeds and stuff need their fucking brains examined (or just supplied with a clue or two).

Still, I may buy low life and brotherhood as the original mastering was sub-atrocious, bassless, flat crap, despite the tracks actually being mixed beautifully. Hopefully these albums will SOUND better (as opposed to BEING better, which they cannot be), after the incredibly hard work of remastering (ie.....wang up preset A3 on your multiband compressor connected between two DAT machines, hit play and record and fuck off to the pub).

and record companies wonder why people are downloading pirated music by the drovels

Doctor? wrote: Here's a truth that will hurt the waveform posters..........

REMASTERS CANNOT, BY DEFINITION, BE ANY BETTER THAN THE ORIGINAL.

Really? Back in the 80s, they created masters from the original tapes and produced CDs from these masters. Today, starting from the same original tapes, they produce new masters and new CDs from these. It seems to me that, if the 2008 mastering is done better than the 80s mastering and if the 2008 CD pressing is done better than the 80s CD pressing, the final 2008 product (the so-called "remastered CDs") will sound much better than the original Factory CDs.

It's just a question of using the same recorded material and processing it with improved technologies. If done properly, the result can only be better.

Of course, the so-called remastering must be done using the original tapes and not from the original CDs or vinyl records! Apparently, they did it correctly for the albums, but not for the bonus CDs.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Mark, you're talking about design and texts, what about the sound? You have not listened to THEM!!!!!

What about the sound???

Well, let's get one thing straight shall we? I don't WANT to bloody listen to them. Not one bit! Why? Reason is simple: I have read up on everybody's comments here for the past couple of weeks, re: the sound quality, the botched remastering, the sourcing from vinyl and all the rest of the horrifying m+is£@ta*kes and gli%%tc^hes that I have absolutely NO desire to add further agony to myself. So they can go shag themselves!

If the packaging is as shoddy, crap and poorly executed as this, do you honestly think that the contents, aurally, will be perfect? It obviously appears not. I'm not interested. Having seen the state of these "products", the last thing I wanna do is to listen to them in their entirety just to make things worse! This was a chance to get it all right (get it right get it right get it riiiiiiight!) .... and in true Warners fashion they go and make a fucking fist of it once again. Well, no more - that's enough for me. Unless they get a new label manager for the back catalogue or something they can all fuck right off cos I ain't giving them useless shortchanging c***s a penny more of my wages.....!

ShugZV wrote: I'll give you a tenner for the lot mate.

PM me

What? You're paying ME a tenner to take these travesties off you so I can investigate them?!!! Good grief man, they MUST be bad if that's what you're now resorting to!

You ARE Wayne Hussey and I claim my Five Pounds!

Ben wrote:

Really? Back in the 80s, they created masters from the original tapes and produced CDs from these masters. Today, starting from the same original tapes, they produce new masters and new CDs from these. It seems to me that, if the 2008 mastering is done better than the 80s mastering and if the 2008 CD pressing is done better than the 80s CD pressing, the final 2008 product (the so-called "remastered CDs") will sound much better than the original Factory CDs.

It's just a question of using the same recorded material and processing it with improved technologies. If done properly, the result can only be better.

Of course, the so-called remastering must be done using the original tapes and not from the original CDs or vinyl records! Apparently, they did it correctly for the albums, but not for the bonus CDs.

agreed,

the actual albums sound just as good, if not better than previous versions (barring a dropout in the track 'sunrise')...

so, it can be done...

care was not taken on the bonus discs however..

later -1

Really? Back in the 80s, they created masters from the original tapes and produced CDs from these masters. Today, starting from the same original tapes, they produce new masters and new CDs from these. It seems to me that, if the 2008 mastering is done better than the 80s mastering and if the 2008 CD pressing is done better than the 80s CD pressing, the final 2008 product (the so-called "remastered CDs") will sound much better than the original Factory CDs.

It's just a question of using the same recorded material and processing it with improved technologies. If done properly, the result can only be better.

Of course, the so-called remastering must be done using the original tapes and not from the original CDs or vinyl records! Apparently, they did it correctly for the albums, but not for the bonus CDs.

For what it's worth the original Factory CDs were largely flat transfers straight from the tapes, as such they are quite a good resource as they weren't subjected to 'modern' mastering techniques to push up the volume/top end etc etc. If you want something that sounds like the tapes then an old Factory issue is quite a good place to start, barring Technique which would have been DAT sourced in the first place.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

No, not HMV Johnny, it was in FOPP whilst me and the wife were browsing in Manchester yesterday afternoon as I had a day off. Most of the CDs were plastic-wrapped, but fortuitously one or two of each title was left unwrapped so I was able to "get inside them" and have a closer look, arf! And I DID NOT LIKE WHAT I SAW !!!!!!!

HMV in Manchester (the bottom one) had done the same so I had a quick look too yesterday, and I'm in total agreement with you. After having read about the tracklisting and quality issues on here over the past couple of months I wasn't going to buy, but I was interested in the packaging - and it's embarrassingly shocking

Congrats to Mr Neck. I really can't believe how with so many rereleases and relatively few actual songs we still ain't got the definitive collection. Something like 'Heart and Soul' or 'One True Passion 0.2.