From BBC 6 Music:

New Order issues

Warner respond to fan complaints about poor quality re-issues

10 October 2008 - Peter Hook has revealed to the BBC that the New Order reissues have received complaints from fans because of the poor quality.

The records were released at the end of September and Hook has blamed the problems on cut backs in the record industry and some missing tapes.

The former Joy Division and New Order bassist explained the problem: “Funnily enough we’ve actually got a few problems with our fans complaining about the quality of the re-masters of the companion discs. Not the LP’s because they’re safe and the tapes for those we have.

“A lot of them are lost, between us listening to the collation and between them coming onto the CD, something seems to have gone wrong.”

Hook attributed it to problems within the record company, saying: “They don’t have half the staff they used to have so everything becomes quite a trial, and I know from doing the Hacienda compilation tape, you get a lot of masters of old songs - they are mastered from the record because nobody can find the tape.”

And it seems there was some miscommunication with their record label: “What’s been intensely annoying for us is that all these people are complaining because they’ve bought them in the shops and Warner’s chose to release them to the shops before they sent them to the band, so I haven’t got one. A masterful piece of planning.”

‘Modern mastered music’

Turning to why New Order decided to re-issue their records, Hook said the original recordings just weren't good enough.

“I have been made aware that a lot of the music we made was about 25 years ago and when you play it against modern mastered music, there is a vast difference in sound and quality to be honest.”

And so, it was a good opportunity to tart up the old recordings, the guitarist explained: “As a DJ, I was getting increasingly annoyed because when I was playing Love Vigilante’s Perfect Kiss - not particularly Blue Monday because it’s so sonically reproduced - but a lot of the acoustic stuff sounded bad, so when we got the opportunity we thought; ‘At last, they’ll be beefy and meaty, just like the bands of today’.”

Hook also explained why they didn't mess around with the track listings on any of the album: “I don’t like the idea of the way, when we got to America with Power Corruption and Lies, the Americans just stuck Blue Monday on Power Corruption and Lies, and it just didn’t fit.

“It was done separately and always thought of separately, so I liked the idea of keeping the LP’s pure - not adding tracks to it and using the bonus CD to put your singles and extra tracks on.”

Contact Warner

Warner say that if any of the fans want to contact them about the quality of the New Order re-issues, then they can email this address:

Neworder.d2c@warnermusic.com

To see what fans have said in response to the poor quality re-issues, visit the New Order official site.

Georgie Rogers

Hook also explained why they didn't mess around with the track listings on any of the album: “I don’t like the idea of the way, when we got to America with Power Corruption and Lies, the Americans just stuck Blue Monday on Power Corruption and Lies, and it just didn’t fit. “It was done separately and always thought of separately, so I liked the idea of keeping the LP’s pure - not adding tracks to it and using the bonus CD to put your singles and extra tracks on.”

...except for Brotherhood. How did that one slip through?

How was that a response from Warners, Hooky pointing out some complaints and email address to?contact Warners.

Sadly no mention of graphs or petitions.

Well at least it's a start. The band knows and the label now knows, if they didn't already, that these are a pile of arse.

thanks nick,

didn't see your post..before i posted mine.

i saw it reposted by 'the happy one'..

as james thomas proposed, it should be stickied..

i have already spread the news in reviews and comments on amazon..

and will post it on other sites as well....

if we all put in the effort, there's a chance something will be done..

i'll be sending the logfile (with just the relevant parts commented)...to them..

later -1

You don't all need to 'put in the effort', they all know.

It might help if every error was fully documented in the log file thread though, then the problems can be all put right.

well,

i figure the more people that tell them, the more they will pay attention..

whats the point if only a handful of people complain?

then it makes us look like we're being picky, when no one else cares..

later -1

to Hooky... nice to see him stand up for us.

EdelBrock wrote: to Hooky... nice to see him stand up for us.

figures they didn't send him copies,

were probably too scared to see what he had to say about them..

later -1

So......... Are they going to sort the problem?

DigitalWaters wrote: So......... Are they going to sort the problem?

Maybe they will put them on discount after a couple of months...

So Warner GAVE us their e-mail to complain to do WHAT? Fix the problem (=improve and re-issue CDs) or just collect complaints and "learn the lesson"?

Monumental fuck up all round really.

Why they didn't use this website to gage opinion and establish some kind of dialogue will always remain a mystery.

Are they really that stupid or lazy?

Compare Graham Massey's approach for the 808 State remasters

It's not rocket science.

Emile Strunz wrote: Monumental fuck up all round really.

Why they didn't use this website to gage opinion and establish some kind of dialogue will always remain a mystery.

Are they really that stupid or lazy?

Compare Graham Massey's approach for the 808 State remasters

It's not rocket science.

DISCLAIMER-i didn't mean to blow up the Chemical lab at school.i just got the mixing Wrong!

Even Edsel records can and did fix CD's, so why can't Warners (which is bigger) do it?!

I emailed them yesterday and included the "44 error-log" with it. I guess we have to be patient again.

-1 wrote: thanks nick,

didn't see your post..before i posted mine.

i saw it reposted by 'the happy one'..

as james thomas proposed, it should be stickied..

i have already spread the news in reviews and comments on amazon..

and will post it on other sites as well....

if we all put in the effort, there's a chance something will be done..

i'll be sending the logfile (with just the relevant parts commented)...to them..

later -1

I read a couple of your reviews on amazon.co.uk and they seemed to be more on the positive side. The Low-Life review you wrote seems to suggest that sound quality is "very good" as is the bonus disc. No problem if you like them, is that the case?

Edward Schatz wrote:

I read a couple of your reviews on amazon.co.uk and they seemed to be more on the positive side. The Low-Life review you wrote seems to suggest that sound quality is "very good" as is the bonus disc. No problem if you like them, is that the case?

actually, a review on amazon is not as technical as it is here.. i posted the exact same reviews on this board first..

the number of stars is arbitrary.. and actually is more of a reflection of how good the songs on the main album are to me..

4 for power, corruption and lies 4 for movement 4 for low-life

i still think the main discs are fine. (with the exception of the dropout in 'sunrise)....

remember, i did mention the problems with all the bonus discs, the bad track selection etc..

but to someone that doesn't have the main album, its worth getting, but not for people that want a complete package..

by the way, i posted the parts of the article about the errors in my reviews now, so everyone will see those first..

later -1

sorry, i'm having trouble quoting..

yes, at some point i'll go back and re-review those cds, depending on if anything comes out of warner.

later -1

The US Rhino website still makes no mention of these even thou they are scheduled to be released in a month according to online stores. Does this mean that they are not finalized, or just that they don't really think they are important whatsoever.

I think it's time for someone to come out. Someone who helped Warner to carry out this reissue project, and who must have visited NOOL. And give us answers.

Just like with JD re-issues, there was a guy here who honestly posted what could be done and what not and whole background behind the reissues.

Warner doesnt give a crap, that is why they will never address this here.

We are just a bunch of fanatics, and only number in the 100s, who honestly care about this crap release.

99% of the New Order buying public will have no clue, will probably just buy these cause they see them in the store.

Warners will profit and New Order's legacy will be a joke.

But nobody really gives a crap. Just us nutty NOOLers.

And who cares about us?

Not New Order, that is for sure.

Peter Hook can piss off. Never thought I'd ever say that.

well this is the official website now...

hibster wrote: well this is the official website now...

I did notice that too. Interesting.

I doubt it unfortunately..

Hmm. I'm not sure how yet another interview with Hooky constitutes a response from Warner. Still, a step in the right direction...

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: So Warner GAVE us their e-mail to complain to do WHAT? Fix the problem (=improve and re-issue CDs) or just collect complaints and "learn the lesson"?

I think it's worth a try to complain. The more the "better".

Canuck21 wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: So Warner GAVE us their e-mail to complain to do WHAT? Fix the problem (=improve and re-issue CDs) or just collect complaints and "learn the lesson"?

I think it's worth a try to complain. The more the "better".

Agreed!

Perhaps one should templatize an email for us to use, or better yet, do one of those online petition things that we can all sign and then forward to Warners....

the problem with a petition is we all want different things.

at the least:

1. FIX ALL THE ERRORS on the ALBUMs, like small clicks, and loss of channels, etc..

there is no excuse for that..

2. FIX THE LINER NOTES/TRACKLISTINGS

that shouldn't be hard, anyone here can proofread them, and tell them the right tracks (i hope so).

3. now for the hardest part

FIX EVERY ERROR ON THE BONUS DISCS...

that means: a) start with a good version, and if you can't find the originals, let someone here know, we'll get it for you

b) quality check the tracks after mastering.... duh..

c) put the bonus tracks in order, at least chronological

d) make sure the track names/mixes, etc match up

e) put the bonus disc tracks on the packaging...

====================================================

not likely:

recall the current discs

redo the bonus disc masters

reprint the packages correctly

i'm not even going to think about the possiblity of putting better tracks on their, or being consistent, because that would be too hard for them.. (ie. include kiss of death, perfect pit, the full shellshock, shame of the nation, etc.)

later -1

warner's not going to do a damn thing, except count their money.

this is a perfect ending to an imperfect band. Hook, Sumner, Morris, and Gilbert never cared about you, and they never will.

i used to be a fan, but the past year just shows me what a joke it all is.

whatever, they played some synths in the 1980s and figured out a drum machine.

all for this, all so warner's could puke it all back up in our obedient little fan faces.

let it go.

the band signed off on this crap, and they don't care. why should we?

Tarbox23 wrote: warner's not going to do a damn thing, except count their money.

this is a perfect ending to an imperfect band. Hook, Sumner, Morris, and Gilbert never cared about you, and they never will.

i used to be a fan, but the past year just shows me what a joke it all is.

whatever, they played some synths in the 1980s and figured out a drum machine.

all for this, all so warner's could puke it all back up in our obedient little fan faces.

let it go.

the band signed off on this crap, and they don't care. why should we?

It all sounds a bit harsh but i'm afraid that u are right. When looking at these remasterd albums and keeping in mind what Peter Hook on forehand said about it (old tracks, special versions, live tracks blahblahblah), to me it looks also like they don't or never didn't give a fuck about the fans...

Hard to come by but live goes on...

Glad the new Keane and Kaiser Chiefs are out

Tarbox23 wrote:

the band signed off on this crap, and they don't care. why should we?

Excellent point. We all blame Warners. But really it's New Order who had signed up this irresponsible monster and who should care that THEIR product is treated dutily. Not wait for a carrier boy to bring a CD that is already in stores, but somehow take part in the process and its final result. I guess no one cares. And after all these crazy years, gigs, deaths, exciting memories, etc., the only things that will remain is their recorded music.

Tarbox23 wrote:

this is a perfect ending to an imperfect band. Hook, Sumner, Morris, and Gilbert never cared about you, and they never will.

Never understood why them caring for us should be that big of a deal? They were a band that put out outstanding music, I could give a toss if they gave two shits about me, as long as they put out good albums...

...and it doesn't seem to be the band signing off on this anyways, as Hooky didn't get a chance to check it out first.

By the way was that a response from Warners? Seemed more from Hooky trying to rouse up Warners with our complaints so that they would actually take him seriously. If so, email Warners and help Hooky out and quit you pointless bitchin'....

-1 wrote:

i'm not even going to think about the possiblity of putting better tracks on their, or being consistent, because that would be too hard for them.. (ie. include kiss of death, perfect pit, the full shellshock, shame of the nation, etc.)

later -1

Shame of the Nation is included on there...

Mr Discography wrote:

-1 wrote:

i'm not even going to think about the possiblity of putting better tracks on their, or being consistent, because that would be too hard for them.. (ie. include kiss of death, perfect pit, the full shellshock, shame of the nation, etc.)

later -1

Shame of the Nation is included on there...

Killer track...

Mr Discography wrote:

-1 wrote:

i'm not even going to think about the possiblity of putting better tracks on their, or being consistent, because that would be too hard for them.. (ie. include kiss of death, perfect pit, the full shellshock, shame of the nation, etc.)

later -1

Shame of the Nation is included on there...

see, they messed that up too! on the promo anyways..

later -1

Tarbox23 wrote: warner's not going to do a damn thing, except count their money.

this is a perfect ending to an imperfect band. Hook, Sumner, Morris, and Gilbert never cared about you, and they never will.

i used to be a fan, but the past year just shows me what a joke it all is.

whatever, they played some synths in the 1980s and figured out a drum machine.

all for this, all so warner's could puke it all back up in our obedient little fan faces.

let it go.

the band signed off on this crap, and they don't care. why should we?

WTF

You call yourself a 'fan' but are so quick to dismiss them as 'they played some synths.....etc.',& that's it?! Fook me,if I was as fickle as that to totally dismiss a band whom I love dearly & have done for over 25 years,just because of some fuck-up by Warners,I wouldn't call myself a fan.Sure,I'm very disappointed,but fook me

Chris Nash wrote: May I just point out that as Warners hold the Publishing rights, they don't need New Order to 'sign off' anything and probably didn't even bother to try.

They will just go ahead and do it. Maybe the band members were told, 'These are the tracks'. The band wouldn't have known that track listings were wrong or that there were technical faults...

The others seem to have kept pretty quiet in public, but at least Hooky has bothered to mention it/attempted to do something about it.

A complaints address is a start - we didn't have that before, did we?

As for saying that Hooky can 'piss off' try saying that to his face (or mine for that matter) after he's been the only one to actually listen to any of the sad, obsessive fans over the years and attempt to do ANYTHING about it - from getting certain tracks put back into the live set to attempting to sort out behind the scenes problems...

If Warners hold the rights and didn't have to consult any of the members (probably) then why is that Hooky chatted so much about the re-masters and the stuff he wanted to put on those extra discs and worked on? i mean he talked about live-tracks, demo's and other stuff he'd found in basements, cupboards and is his shed. When looking at the result it really makes wonder if he was involved in the end? he cannot be pleased with the result, can he v

Or will there be other stuff coming out soon, compiled and worekd on by Hooky? now i would love that....

If only there were tie-in New Order 'Care Bears'.

That'd make everything alright in my eyes.

And I never joke about Care Bears.

Ever.

I'm listening to 'The Sound of The Smiths' here at work where we are producing it, release on 10th November kids , and one must admit to being very impressed by the production.......Johnny Marr oversaw that you know.....Who owns the publishing rights to the Smiths????????

Alf wrote: I'm listening to 'The Sound of The Smiths' here at work where we are producing it, release on 10th November kids , and one must admit to being very impressed by the production.......Johnny Marr oversaw that you know.....Who owns the publishing rights to the Smiths????????

If I'm honest I have to say that 'The Sound Of The Smiths' is a bit of a pointless compilation. A couple of rarities thrown into yet another best of. Barely worth doing.

As for publishers, this is a different thing entirely to record labels. Publishers don't put records/CDs out.

Alf wrote: I'm listening to 'The Sound of The Smiths' here at work where we are producing it, release on 10th November kids , and one must admit to being very impressed by the production.......Johnny Marr oversaw that you know.....Who owns the publishing rights to the Smiths????????

I read about this ages ago - Johnny and Mozz burying the hatchet and getting together to give the old tracks the release they deserve. I'm really looking forward to hearing them.

the-sound-of-the-smiths-2cd-deluxe-version

johnny james wrote:

Alf wrote: I'm listening to 'The Sound of The Smiths' here at work where we are producing it, release on 10th November kids , and one must admit to being very impressed by the production.......Johnny Marr oversaw that you know.....Who owns the publishing rights to the Smiths????????

If I'm honest I have to say that 'The Sound Of The Smiths' is a bit of a pointless compilation. A couple of rarities thrown into yet another best of. Barely worth doing.

As for publishers, this is a different thing entirely to record labels. Publishers don't put records/CDs out.

My point is that Warners are putting out Smiths 'remastered' and they have put out New Orders 'remastered'...difference being that Johnny Marr oversaw the remastering and there aren't any nasty crappy clicks on it....nobody from New Order were involved in theirs.......What are the reasons for this? Were NO happy for these to be released in this condition?

Members of the band did oversee the remastering of the principle albums, and in the main these are fine.

Unfortunately they left the extra disc bit to Warners (though they did select the tracks).

David Sultan probably has all the original master tapes, that he purchased from Hook in the 90s, locked away in his Florida basement!

We should blame him, not Warners!

does anybody have Sultan's address? just curious

Since I already own everything from these reissues -- except by the Tall Paul remix of TF I suppose -- I maybe would get them for the packaging/graphic aspect, but hey... we all need to chill out for a while.

Warners are not getting my money this time, they'll have to find another way to earn cash to pay for the beautiful stuff they use to buy for their mistresses apartments. No problem at all, I'll use the money for really productive purposes like getting DVD-Rs to backup my porn stuff and wait for the next release -- Live in Glasgow was great, by the way.

scrimshanker wrote: does anybody have Sultan's address? just curious

FAC 441, Palatine Rd, Miami, Fl.

scrimshanker wrote: does anybody have Sultan's address? just curious

am sure you could email him on worldinmotion