Which tracks did Gillian sing on? Why didn't she sing more?

This is my list so far:

1. Procession (some female backing vocals on there, but is it her?)

2. Confusion (This one I reckon is definitely Gillian because even though it's delivered in a semi-american accent ...she pronounces the "can't" in can't you see?' in the british way......I.e. Carrrn't' rather than the american way with the flat `a'. Plus it sounds like her when compared to the other two stuff.

3. Doubts even here (love this track....this is one is definitely her...I'm pretty sure).

4. Guilt is a useless emotion/waiting for the sirens call

(I love both these tracks, did she actually sing on any stuff on W4TSC, or was that just a rumour? )

The thing is, she has a really lush voice, ....at least as good as Barney in tone and tune. So why didn't she get more singing parts? I reckon she could have really added something to a lot of their material. Was it like a superstitiious hangover from her joining the the band after what happened with Ian?

What would have happened if Hooky and Barney had much worse voices (like Steve's) but they still wanted to carry on with songs and the band after Ian died?

Do you think there's an alternate universe out there with Gillian singing lead?

Just some thoughts!

foxystarship wrote: This is my list so far:

1. Procession (some female backing vocals on there, but is it her?)

2. Confusion (This one I reckon is definitely Gillian because even though it's delivered in a semi-american accent ...she pronounces the "can't" in can't you see?' in the british way......I.e. Carrrn't' rather than the american way with the flat `a'. Plus it sounds like her when compared to the other two stuff.

3. Doubts even here (love this track....this is one is definitely her...I'm pretty sure).

4. Guilt is a useless emotion/waiting for the sirens call

(I love both these tracks, did she actually sing on any stuff on W4TSC, or was that just a rumour? )

---

The thing is, she has a really lush voice, ....at least as good as Barney in tone and tune. So why didn't she get more singing parts? I reckon she could have really added something to a lot of their material. Was it like a superstitiious hangover from her joining the the band after what happened with Ian?

What would have happened if Hooky and Barney had much worse voices (like Steve's) but they still wanted to carry on with songs and the band after Ian died?

Do you think there's an alternate universe out there with Gillian singing lead?

Just some thoughts!

I think Gillian is in "doubts even here" and even "avalanche" from Republic. Some Say Gillian is even in "true faith", but the way the tracks are at times it's hard to tell.

foxystarship wrote: This is my list so far:

1. Procession (some female backing vocals on there, but is it her?)

2. Confusion (This one I reckon is definitely Gillian because even though it's delivered in a semi-american accent ...she pronounces the "can't" in can't you see?' in the british way......I.e. Carrrn't' rather than the american way with the flat `a'. Plus it sounds like her when compared to the other two stuff.

3. Doubts even here (love this track....this is one is definitely her...I'm pretty sure).

4. Guilt is a useless emotion/waiting for the sirens call

(I love both these tracks, did she actually sing on any stuff on W4TSC, or was that just a rumour? )

---

The thing is, she has a really lush voice, ....at least as good as Barney in tone and tune. So why didn't she get more singing parts? I reckon she could have really added something to a lot of their material. Was it like a superstitiious hangover from her joining the the band after what happened with Ian?

What would have happened if Hooky and Barney had much worse voices (like Steve's) but they still wanted to carry on with songs and the band after Ian died?

Do you think there's an alternate universe out there with Gillian singing lead?

Just some thoughts!

The female vocals on the WFTSC tracks you mention were done by Beatrice Hatherley - who I used to work with before she got her break. She's the sister of Charlotte Hatherley who used to be in Ash.

A lovely girl, who still owes me a tenner, and was last seen playing bass in Zoot Woman - a band that once featured Stuart Price - who produced...

What about Someone Like You?

any female vocal you hear on the last three or four albums are likely to be done by session vocalists.

Also many times during the eighties, what you thought was a female vocal was Bernard's vocal pitched up one octave.

dave soligo wrote:

Also many times during the eighties, what you thought was a female vocal was Bernard's vocal pitched up one octave.

I wonder how they really got him to sing higher .

Bere wrote:

dave soligo wrote:

Also many times during the eighties, what you thought was a female vocal was Bernard's vocal pitched up one octave.

I wonder how they really got him to sing higher .

Pernod, and snow down his shirt.

foxystarship wrote: What would have happened if Hooky and Barney had much worse voices (like Steve's) but they still wanted to carry on with songs and the band after Ian died?

Actually Steve has the best voice of the three. If he hadn't been the drummer he'd have been New Order's lead vocalist.

I agree that it's a shame Gillian didn't sing more, she's got an excellent voice. That's definitely her on Faith and Doubts Even Here.

Edit: er, Avalanche rather, "Faith" is just what she sings.

Whose is the female voice on Shame of the Nation?

michael preda wrote: I think Gillian is in "doubts even here" and even "avalanche" from Republic. Some Say Gillian is even in "true faith", but the way the tracks are at times it's hard to tell.

I pretty sure I read that the high pitched vocals on true faith are by Bernard and Stephen Hague. It is much clearer on the True Dub version.

poorshakes wrote:

michael preda wrote: I think Gillian is in "doubts even here" and even "avalanche" from Republic. Some Say Gillian is even in "true faith", but the way the tracks are at times it's hard to tell.

I pretty sure I read that the high pitched vocals on true faith are by Bernard and Stephen Hague. It is much clearer on the True Dub version.

Oh, well that makes much more sense. Thanks for clearing that up!

Gillian was a nuisance to Bernard, for New Order were pretty mysygionist. That said, having a female musician, they difinitely should have given her more opportunity to sing on tracks instead of using nameless studio backup singers, who honestly didn't give a toss about New Order.

The revenge came from The Other Two. Now it's only Steve who never sang on anything (officially)... Why no questions about him, eh?

-1980, Manchester

steve: okay so its obvious that I have the best voice…hooky sounded pretty decent.

hooky: im not fookin singin…I cant even face anybody when I play, let alone sing.

rob: (laugh)

hooky fook off

steve: barney sounded fantstic!

(rob, steve and hooky laugh)

barney: (evil stare) piss off

rob; right heres what were gonna do. barneys gonna write the lyrics and sing lead, ‘oooky will do backing…and steve you’re not gonna say a word.

(confusion all around)

steve: whot!?

rob:you phil collins mate?.......this is new order

hooky: im not doing anything of the sort!

barney: I can barely play fookin guitar!?!?

rob: this is what were gonna do!

barney: how the fook! am I gonna play guitar, keyboards and sing at sing at the same time….ive never written a lyric in my life. I wouldn’t even know where to begin!...no…rob...no…rob?

rob: were gonna do some gigs here then go to america and record ceremony for our first single.

(cofusion!)

rob: trust in me lads…this is gonna work…

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Gillian was a nuisance to Bernard, for New Order were pretty mysygionist. That said, having a female musician, they difinitely should have given her more opportunity to sing on tracks instead of using nameless studio backup singers, who honestly didn't give a toss about New Order.

The revenge came from The Other Two. Now it's only Steve who never sang on anything (officially)... Why no questions about him, eh?

Why do you say Bernard thought Gillian was a nuisance? He always spoke well of her in interviews and speaks well of her in the Nolan book. Barney did say that Hooky had a sexist attitude towards Gillian though....

eskamiya wrote: -1980, Manchester

steve: okay so its obvious that I have the best voice…hooky sounded pretty decent.

hooky: im not fookin singin…I cant even face anybody when I play, let alone sing.

rob: (laugh)

hooky fook off

steve: barney sounded fantstic!

(rob, steve and hooky laugh)

barney: (evil stare) piss off

rob; right heres what were gonna do. barneys gonna write the lyrics and sing lead, ‘oooky will do backing…and steve you’re not gonna say a word.

(confusion all around)

steve: whot!?

rob:you phil collins mate?.......this is new order

hooky: im not doing anything of the sort!

barney: I can barely play fookin guitar!?!?

rob: this is what were gonna do!

barney: how the fook! am I gonna play guitar, keyboards and sing at sing at the same time….ive never written a lyric in my life. I wouldn’t even know where to begin!...no…rob...no…rob?

rob: were gonna do some gigs here then go to america and record ceremony for our first single.

(cofusion!)

rob: trust in me lads…this is gonna work…

:D

Did she WANT to sing? She acted uncomfortable enough on stage as it was.

Did the guys want the band to be a female vocals synth pop group? I doubt it.

Did the audience have much desire for her to sing? Probably not.

Would Gillian have been able to provide the bland cliched lame female vocals that Barney wanted to augment his pedestrian vocals to give the songs a pseudo pop sound? I doubt it, she wouldn't have been able to do that style. As for why Barney wanted State of the Nation backing vocals like that we can only guess.

Maybe Gillian could have done a few "Mo Tucker" type vocals, just to change it up. Might have been quite good, we will never know.

'ell... why didn't Hooky sing a few more songs?

0_o wrote: Did she WANT to sing? She acted uncomfortable enough on stage as it was.

Did the guys want the band to be a female vocals synth pop group? I doubt it.

Did the audience have much desire for her to sing? Probably not.

Would Gillian have been able to provide the bland cliched lame female vocals that Barney wanted to augment his pedestrian vocals to give the songs a pseudo pop sound? I doubt it, she wouldn't have been able to do that style. As for why Barney wanted State of the Nation backing vocals like that we can only guess.

Maybe Gillian could have done a few "Mo Tucker" type vocals, just to change it up. Might have been quite good, we will never know.

'ell... why didn't Hooky sing a few more songs?

here is the smartest person on Nool. Probably closer to the truth that we will ever get.

That's definitely Gillian on Someone Like You - the difference between her voice and Dawn Zee's in the other songs is very marked.

As far as I know, Gillian did not take part in the writing and recording of WFTSC.

As for Gillian singing with NO, for some reason I can't quite explain coherently, I've always loved The Other Two, but never felt Gillian's singing would have fitted in too well with NO songs. Barney's always had a very distinctive voice anyway, for many years I thought of his voice as NO's trade mark much more than Hooky's bass!

I don't think Gillian felt uncomfortable with the lads all those years, and to the best of my knowledge she only did leave the band to stay at home to take care of the girls.

With hindsight, that was the beginning of the end if you ask me. Nothing against Phil, who's a fine musician, albeit a little too traditional for my taste, but without Gillian it was just another band. Not a bad one, but different.

If anything, NO were one of those bands who taught us it's the people who make the name, not the other way around. Without one of the four, they should definitely go by a different name. Hooky's right.

ROM wrote: That's definitely Gillian on Someone Like You - the difference between her voice and Dawn Zee's in the other songs is very marked.

As far as I know, Gillian did not take part in the writing and recording of WFTSC.

As for Gillian singing with NO, for some reason I can't quite explain coherently, I've always loved The Other Two, but never felt Gillian's singing would have fitted in too well with NO songs. Barney's always had a very distinctive voice anyway, for many years I thought of his voice as NO's trade mark much more than Hooky's bass!

I don't think Gillian felt uncomfortable with the lads all those years, and to the best of my knowledge she only did leave the band to stay at home to take care of the girls.

With hindsight, that was the beginning of the end if you ask me. Nothing against Phil, who's a fine musician, albeit a little too traditional for my taste, but without Gillian it was just another band. Not a bad one, but different.

If anything, NO were one of those bands who taught us it's the people who make the name, not the other way around. Without one of the four, they should definitely go by a different name. Hooky's right.

Well Barneys got Phil and Steve in Bad Lieutenant.

I really do hope Steve's involved. But then again, it's a different name, right?

and no one has mentioned the best song they never released: TOO LATE

ROM wrote: I really do hope Steve's involved. But then again, it's a different name, right?

Barney did not seem to mention him in that television interview... maybe he was taking Steve for granted, or Steve wisely decided not to take sides.

I noticed that too.

I noticed that too.