Which one's which ?

An old debate I know, but I have never been totally satisfied with the answers. Which song is Mesh, and which song is Cries and Whispers ?

I believe that the one that starts with "Below the surface" is Cries and Whispers......as listed and played on US 83 tour bootlegs. Haven't seen a setlist from this tour though. I have several tapes of this tour that include the song in question. Each time it is on the tape cover as Cries and Whispers. The lyrics archive on this site has the songs reversed though.....

Anyone ?

From the Ivarsson Discography:

http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/

Q: This is a mesh! Mesh on the 1981-1982 EP is not the same song as the one on my Everything's Gone Green single nor my Substance 1987 album. What's going on?

A: Well, assuming that the Everything's Gone Green single and the Substance 1987 album are correct, the song Mesh on the EP release has the wrong title. In fact, this track should be titled Cries and Whispers.

:\pimp3:

'Mesh' on the USA Mini-album (1981-1982) is an outrageous and inexplicable error. Despite the outstanding artwork on this superb collection of chocolate half-coated digestives a type-error has occured.

Cries and Whiskers is correctly labelled on the EGG chaser 12" though, which I assume can't have been that much trouble having only 3 songs on it, EGG, Crepes and Mash on both sides of the coin.

As a matter of interest, was that Peter Sav's shoelace on the front cover of EGG?

Originally posted by Huntsman 'Mesh' on the USA Mini-album (1981-1982) is an outrageous and inexplicable error. Despite the outstanding artwork on this superb collection of chocolate half-coated digestives a type-error has occured.Cries and Whiskers is correctly labelled on the EGG chaser 12" though, which I assume can't have been that much trouble having only 3 songs on it, EGG, Crepes and Mash on both sides of the coin.

I own ALL of these but i agree with HUNTSY here!:D But it is NOT Peter Saville's shoelace but in fact BUSTER BLOODVESSEL's BOOTLACE from the CAN CAN era. I should know ,i am now BB!

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Easy E> > > Anyone ?

Easy one this - 'Cries & Whispers' is the sh*te one, and 'Mesh' is, er, the other sh*te one. Er..

That is probably the most amusing comment since Major bought Hooky for 17.49.

You HAVE not been ABDUCTED then PATRICK! WELCOME

Originally posted by ROCKET MICK You HAVE not been ABDUCTED then PATRICK! WELCOME

Thanks, Rocket Man!

Actually, I was abducted, but I escaped.

How is MULDER and SCULLY ?

Originally posted by ROCKET MICK How is MULDER and SCULLY ?

They must have been abducted by somebody else; I didn't see them.

Which brings me back to my original question. Which is which ?

The gig history here (admittedly this was taken from Water Rat's excellent provision) and the labels on my tapes of the era have Cries and Whispers as being the song played in US 83, which contains the opening line "below the surface".

The lyrics archive here has that as being the opening line from Mesh. Someone is wrong, either the gigography or the lyrics. Answers on a blank screen below please !

Without access to vinyl I for one can't help you. Somebody must have the records out somewhere.

Cries And Whispers = "Filled with desire, the empty scene..."

Mesh = "Below the surface, this day I feel it..."

Originally posted by Old Blue Cries And Whispers = "Filled with desire, the empty scene..."Mesh = "Below the surface, this day I feel it..."

Well done MR TRAINSPOTTER! :D

Well, according to my Factory Benelux (FBNL8) 12" of "Everything's Gone Green", the two tracks on the flip are actually labelled "CRIES AND WHISPERS" and "MESH" in that order - and when you play them, the first track has the opening synth drone and the lines "Below the surface...", and the second track has the Hooky bassline and the opening lines "Filled with desire..." - so therefore I say that the Factory Benelux version of this single has the CORRECT tracklisting. Furthermore, according to my "Joy Division / New Order" - A History in Cuttings Part 1 - that is the same rule (apart from "C.A.W." allegedly beginning with the lines "Oh, what a circus, this time I feel it" - that's what's actually printed, believe it or not!!). Most curious.

But Chris - which d'you think is the correct opening line of "C & W" (ha ha ha!! - see that?!! - NO LONGER the alternative title for "Love Vigilantes"!!) ??

"Oh what a circus...this time I feel it" (according to the "History In Cuttings" transcription) or

"Below the surface...this time I feel it" ??

That's still a rather enigmatic puzzle I think! ;)

I agree with what you say about the Cuttings book, Hubert. I spent a long time thinking Mesh was Cries And Whispers and vice versa.

I read an interview around the time Substance was released which if memory serves went something like this : the confusion arose because the EGG sleeve lists Mesh as the first track on side two, where as the label lists Mesh as track 2. The confusion was further compounded when Mesh was wrongly credited on Factus8.....it is in fact Cries and Whispers.

They used Substance to put the record staight once and for all, the songs are correctly named on the cassette........meaning that the EGG sleeve was correct all along, not the label.

Speaking of the EGG FBN 12" Single, I found it sittling nicely with a Factory pressing of Movement AND the excellent Bis FactEP. What a score and all 3 came up to less than $30. What are the original colors on the Movement Album....mine is white with Burgundy and black.....the same store has the original Blue Monday, Perfect Kiss, 81/82 Ep, True Faith, Fine Time and Round and Round.

Hadaway wi' ye!!! - and to think we'd been had all this time!! then.... My, that's one hell of a confusion (snigger) that one then.... so that basically means the whole thing was righted when "Substance" came out??? Okay dokay - but one further thing - have ye checked that this track listing is also correct on the LIMITED BOX EDITION CASSETTE No.2 version of "Substance" - where there are 16 B-sides as opposed to just 12 on the CD version: as in - are "Cries and Whispers" and "Mesh" correctly listed as the songs that they ARE rather than AREN'T on that one? Frig - think ah'm gettin' rather dizzy now...!!!

Originally posted by Geaux Hagen Speaking of the EGG FBN 12" Single, I found it sittling nicely with a Factory pressing of Movement AND the excellent Bis FactEP. What a score and all 3 came up to less than $30. What are the original colors on the Movement Album....mine is white with Burgundy and black.....the same store has the original Blue Monday, Perfect Kiss, 81/82 Ep, True Faith, Fine Time and Round and Round.

Original "Movement" issue colours are light blue card cover with darker blue bars and black typography.

Originally posted by Hubert Mickle Hadaway wi' ye!!! - and to think we'd been had all this time!! then.... My, that's one hell of a confusion (snigger) that one then.... so that basically means the whole thing was righted when "Substance" came out??? Okay dokay - but one further thing - have ye checked that this track listing is also correct on the LIMITED BOX EDITION CASSETTE No.2 version of "Substance" - where there are 16 B-sides as opposed to just 12 on the CD version: as in - are "Cries and Whispers" and "Mesh" correctly listed as the songs that they ARE rather than AREN'T on that one? Frig - think ah'm gettin' rather dizzy now...!!!

Yes mate, the Substance cassette is right!

Now, can we have an easy question please?!

Glad you've sorted that out! :D