Sink or Swim (official preview up)

So... Bad Lieutenant - Sink Or Swim (Australia Mix) ...or so.

cheers,

|cv|

When asked to sign a pair of adidas Ian Brown trainees at an eventful Boro Town Hall gig 18 months or so ago,Ian Brown,wearing a notably beautiful soft to the touch leather jacket,scribbled an out of the blue,unprompted "Jimmy Saville is a nonce" on them...

I thought a "best wishes,I.B." would have sufficed,but it makes you wonder...

He had the chair Jimmy did,the best chair ever.You felt like you could trust him to babysit and everything! It would be a crying shame if Jimmy was in anyway not a nice bloke. Jimmy always seemed so amiable...apart from the time I wrote the stupid haired spacker,asking him if he could fix it for me to smash a penalty past Shilton,and have a knockabout with Glen Hoddle at Wembley(who was a marvelous player,probably the finest English player of his generation)and he completely never even bothered to answer me..I was probably 10 or summat but I bear grudges,the fucking ignorant nonce..

Anyhooo back on topic..

Jed,I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Touched upon it once before,I'm not the pushy type but have you considered lyrics for that instrumental 'Brilliance' on your Myspace yet? I think that has the makings of a fucking pearler!

Excellent song... but it sounds like its missing something,... just can't put my finger on it

...oh, Hooky

Much better than I expected though.

I don't know, I really don't think this song needs the Hooky bass.

You CAN write music without Hooky bass.

I know, heresy, but it is true.

And Hooky has always been the heart & soul of new order to me. I played bass with a chorus pedal for YEARS cause of him....

But Sink or Swim sounds pretty complete as it is. All these homegrown bass-added mixes in this thread just sound redundant and prove my point...

43rd rule of songwriting: if a track isn't ADDING to the song, remove it, no matter how pretty it is...

Tarbox23 wrote: I don't know, I really don't think this song needs the Hooky bass.

You CAN write music without Hooky bass.

I know, heresy, but it is true.

And Hooky has always been the heart & soul of new order to me. I played bass with a chorus pedal for YEARS cause of him....

But Sink or Swim sounds pretty complete as it is. All these homegrown bass-added mixes in this thread just sound redundant and prove my point...

43rd rule of songwriting: if a track isn't ADDING to the song, remove it, no matter how pretty it is...

Agreed!

Tarbox23 wrote: 43rd rule of songwriting: if a track isn't ADDING to the song, remove it, no matter how pretty it is...

Terrific!

now how can one tell exactly when a track is helping or not??????

please, i cant wait to read your response.

obviously, if the songs sounds worse with a new track, then you take it out.

but the rule is really for situations where it is a tie, where you add a track and can't really tell if the song is that much better, then you might as well yank it.

if it isn't obviously making the song better, then there is no point to it.

seems like most great songs have 3-5 key elements going on...

Hook even said it about Revenge, how he had trouble cutting tracks, and there are some REALLY BUSY songs in the early Revenge catalog... I love the stuff, but with hindsight Hook admits he should have simplified, focused on just the key tracks....

Sink or Swim needs no redundant chorusy bass line. It is already a full song.

Tarbox23 wrote: you can sing the word jesus in a song without preaching.... does the word really upset you that much?

i am not a christian, and wasn't bothered in the least by the reference.

damn some people are sensitive!

....HOOK line and SINKER..eh SHED?

RM wrote:

Tarbox23 wrote: you can sing the word jesus in a song without preaching.... does the word really upset you that much?

i am not a christian, and wasn't bothered in the least by the reference.

damn some people are sensitive!

....HOOK line and SINKER..eh SHED?

too fcuking RIGHT.

Can i just say that i REALLY like this beautiful song. THERE I HAVE said IT COLIN.

...and i want to go for a LEAK.

SHED wrote: Can i just say that i REALLY like this beautiful song. THERE I HAVE said IT COLIN.

NOt BAD Lieutenant.

Utter shite. Lets be honest, if this was by anyone other than a couple of members of a once great band you wouldn't even listen twice to it. Too many people on here wanting to like it and losing sight of the fact that it is bland AOR at it's worst. At the risk of sounding like Uncle Liam there's a veritable avalanche of brilliant new music out there at the moment and I would advise all right thinking people to go and investigate that rather than this drivel.

Tarbox23 wrote: I don't know, I really don't think this song needs the Hooky bass.

You CAN write music without Hooky bass.

I know, heresy, but it is true.

And Hooky has always been the heart & soul of new order to me. I played bass with a chorus pedal for YEARS cause of him....

But Sink or Swim sounds pretty complete as it is. All these homegrown bass-added mixes in this thread just sound redundant and prove my point...

43rd rule of songwriting: if a track isn't ADDING to the song, remove it, no matter how pretty it is...

Wow. Going against the grain.

I love New Order. I love Peter Hook (because aside from being an awesomely talented musician and innovative bass player, he is a great guy). But his basslines are not the only reason, or even the main reason, as to why I like New Order.

If Sink or Swim was the first single from a new New Order record and had Hooky's bass on it, I wonder if some of the folks here who seem to personally identify with Hooky would have a different opinion.

And I think its a great song. And I would like it even if it was some band I'd never heard of. Its a great song.

Case in point, I played Sink or Swim to bunch of my co workers (none of whom are into New Order) and they all really enjoyed it.

I think the tune is alright. its not fantastic (on first listen). is it me or does the theme sound like its about ronnie wood?

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=480755951&blogId=506290888

GlasVegas wrote: Utter shite. Lets be honest, if this was by anyone other than a couple of members of a once great band you wouldn't even listen twice to it. Too many people on here wanting to like it and losing sight of the fact that it is bland AOR at it's worst. At the risk of sounding like Uncle Liam there's a veritable avalanche of brilliant new music out there at the moment and I would advise all right thinking people to go and investigate that rather than this drivel.

Well said - with, or without Hooky's bass, I still can't understand why a lot of people on here actually seem to like this song...

I'm just hoping that the album is a lot better...

They're sending it free* to anyone who signs up on their website thus.

* Still overpriced

I don’t know??? I like it. The harmony takes a bit of getting used to, but I love the guitar (Yea I can tell the part that would have been Hooky's part)

I put it on my ipod and listen to it a lot already. The more I listen the more I like.

Listened to it a few times and I quite like it. Barneys voice is very distinctive and a voice I love so I do tend to like most tracks with his vocal on. Just like Hookys bass and Stevens drums are distinctive which is probaly why NO are my favourite band. This isn't NO but Its as good as some of their recent stuff and therefore alright by me. And due to his age is now more suited to guitar oriented tracks rather than attempt dance music.

At over 50 years old his days of making experimental fresh music are probably over but what he can make are songs in his own style which as NO fans most of us probably like to some degree. If you want more challenging stuff theres plenty out there for this year I reccommend Animal Collective Merriweather Post Pavillion and The Black Dog Further Vexations.

Bring on the album and the gigs, they;ll only be ever one Barney and he will always be a legend in my eyes.

It just sounds like something which didn't make the cut for WFTSC to me. Pleasant enough but not really surprising; a bit late period New Order by numbers. I think we may want them to sound more like the Order which is understandable but they'll never achieve that without Hooky and then it wouldn't be BL then! It could easily be Electronic circa Twisted Tenderness (which was thirteen years ago, folks...how scary!!)

Hmmmm...

Boatraceface wrote: When asked to sign a pair of adidas Ian Brown trainees at an eventful Boro Town Hall gig 18 months or so ago,Ian Brown,wearing a notably beautiful soft to the touch leather jacket,scribbled an out of the blue,unprompted "Jimmy Saville is a nonce" on them...

I thought a "best wishes,I.B." would have sufficed,but it makes you wonder...

He had the chair Jimmy did,the best chair ever.You felt like you could trust him to babysit and everything! It would be a crying shame if Jimmy was in anyway not a nice bloke. Jimmy always seemed so amiable...apart from the time I wrote the stupid haired spacker,asking him if he could fix it for me to smash a penalty past Shilton,and have a knockabout with Glen Hoddle at Wembley(who was a marvelous player,probably the finest English player of his generation)and he completely never even bothered to answer me..I was probably 10 or summat but I bear grudges,the fucking ignorant nonce..

Anyhooo back on topic..

Jed,I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Touched upon it once before,I'm not the pushy type but have you considered lyrics for that instrumental 'Brilliance' on your Myspace yet? I think that has the makings of a fucking pearler!

Mr. Boat et al,

Are you suggesting that Mr. Saville may be a kiddy fiddler just because he quite rightly ignored your love fest with a shit goalie (didn't stop a single West German penalty in the 1990 World Cup Semi-Final) and the creator of this shite?:

Shame on you for maybe suggesting such things against Manchester's Top Ten Club's finest...

chronovisor wrote: So... Bad Lieutenant - Sink Or Swim (Australia Mix) ...or so.

cheers,

|cv|

Ha ha! funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you not think the band are listening?

;-)

Listened to it a few times now, and to be honest it's not as good as this:

Or this:

Or this:

Or even this (which is actually quite brilliant):

Surely this version of Sink or Swim is a pisstake?...

Spotnick wrote: Oh and I forgot to add, no fan will ever be satisfied with side-projects.

Get over it, it will always sound like "New Order light" to us.

Wrong Spotnick.

I fully embraced Electronic and Monaco and the Other Two.

This, if it's the final radio release edit, is just plain crap.

It ain't no Getting Away With It.

It ain't no Get the Message.

It ain't no Twisted Tenderness.

I would even suggest that Until The End of Time pisses on this.

At the very least Bernard should have attempted a one last hurrah with Johnny Marr.

What we have at the moment is just plain sub-standard.

However, I will keep an open mind until I've bought the album from one of many good stockists and listened to it in full.

I think that's a fair assessment

I think it's a good song and quite a catchy first single

The only problem I have with it is that right after the really chilled almost spoken word type section that is actually pretty awesome... they kill it with the stupid unnecessary YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAAAAAAAHHHH part.

noorder wrote:

Spotnick wrote: Oh and I forgot to add, no fan will ever be satisfied with side-projects.

Get over it, it will always sound like "New Order light" to us.

Wrong Spotnick.

I fully embraced Electronic and Monaco and the Other Two.

This, if it's the final radio release edit, is just plain crap.

It ain't no Getting Away With It.

It ain't no Get the Message.

It ain't no Twisted Tenderness.

I would even suggest that Until The End of Time pisses on this.

At the very least Bernard should have attempted a one last hurrah with Johnny Marr.

What we have at the moment is just plain sub-standard.

However, I will keep an open mind until I've bought the album from one of many good stockists and listened to it in full.

I think that's a fair assessment

What he said! :) (I also liked and still like Revenge)

I'm also surprised that people are acting like this is great. Sure, it's nice to hear Bernard back at work and the song has a nice guitar melody but the track is rather pedestrian and middling. It's hard to imagine this getting any attention other than from New Order fans. This type of song craft is not Bernard's strength. The lyrics don't hold up on their own merit.