Sink or Swim (official preview up)

[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote:

Todd Marsee wrote: Great tune Bernard, et al! much better than Freebass... come on Hookey, you can do better ;) Do miss your bass line in BL's song.

Why is everyone thinking that the rough Stalingrad demo IS Freebass... you seriously could not be any more wrong!! :\ohwell:

you are right about FreeBass but because we now only know one or two tracks from them it's the only thing we can judge, unfortunately :\ohwell:

Give us a few more tracks and we and we can judge it better i would say:)

Right I've finally listened to it, and this is what I think.

What is it FOR?

The lyrics don't mean anything in particular. It's a jumble of meaningless metaphors with a few nonsensical boating (hold on tight and don't fall in) and religious (Jesus save this heart of gold, take the time to save a soul) references. What the fuck does it mean? And who is it being addressed to? It's nonsense, it has no meaning. The words have been assembled because they rhyme and sound all right. Fine for a boyband, but far from pioneering. And all delivered in a nasal received-Cheshire accent that sounds like a rich, ageing pop star who's moved out of Manchester and given up drugs. I hate it.

Onto the music, if we must. Well again, it's entirely formulaic. A sub-Byrds 12 string riff, acoustic rhythm and a screechy solo, which we know Phil can deliver in his sleep. What else is there? Nothing. It doesn't rock, it doesn't dance it doesn't chill you out. The 12 string riff catches into your mind and rolls around all afternoon like an East 17 song. And that's it, is it? 30+ years in the game and the best you can come up with is 'catchy'?

And the yeah yeah yeahs. What's that all about? I can only assume they got bored with the stupid lyrics and just decided to fill in until the inevitable repeat to fade. She Loves You it aint, there's nothing triumphant to celebrate. No no no no no would have been a better call.

Barney: whatcher dooowin?

SHED wrote: SHIT

wHAT someone i know said when he had been out to the pub.But i think COLIN and i may be THINKING the same thing.I'm just a bit more articulate!:p

NEW ORDER must be RE-BUILT.....FAC 2009

Diamond 383 wrote: Right I've finally listened to it, and this is what I think.

What is it FOR?

The lyrics don't mean anything in particular. It's a jumble of meaningless metaphors with a few nonsensical boating (hold on tight and don't fall in) and religious (Jesus save this heart of gold, take the time to save a soul) references. What the fuck does it mean? And who is it being addressed to? It's nonsense, it has no meaning. The words have been assembled because they rhyme and sound all right. Fine for a boyband, but far from pioneering. And all delivered in a nasal received-Cheshire accent that sounds like a rich, ageing pop star who's moved out of Manchester and given up drugs. I hate it.

Onto the music, if we must. Well again, it's entirely formulaic. A sub-Byrds 12 string riff, acoustic rhythm and a screechy solo, which we know Phil can deliver in his sleep. What else is there? Nothing. It doesn't rock, it doesn't dance it doesn't chill you out. The 12 string riff catches into your mind and rolls around all afternoon like an East 17 song. And that's it, is it? 30+ years in the game and the best you can come up with is 'catchy'?

And the yeah yeah yeahs. What's that all about? I can only assume they got bored with the stupid lyrics and just decided to fill in until the inevitable repeat to fade. She Loves You it aint, there's nothing triumphant to celebrate. No no no no no would have been a better call.

Barney: whatcher dooowin?

Where to start with this?

What is it for? What is any music for? Since when has anything NO/JD related ever been for anything? What the fuck does it need to be for other than for listening?

Then, the shocking revelation that the lyrics are a bit shite - Jesus H, better hold the front page on that one - Barney writes crap lyrics. This comes as a surprise to you? I don't see this as any more a criticism than someone looking at the sky and saying "jeez, it's a bit fucking blue, isn't it?".

I won't bother with commenting on the sub-Byrds and East 17 comparisons here other than to say NOBODY can touch a 12-string Rickenbacker without some toolbox mentioning the Byrds.

OK, so you dont like it - fair enough, but best leave it there. I personally think it's pretty cool. Flame away, I don't care. CTB

You can do a lot more with a 12 String than twiddle about the D Chord. Listen to the start of Electronic's version of Can't Find My Way Home, for example. It's a truly amazing instrument to play and all everyone does when they pick one up is D Dsus4 D like the Byrds have been doing since the 60s. It dominates the soundscape and is a shortcut to catchy. It genuinely offends me as a pissy appeal for people to love it. "Listen to me, I'm catchy."

It's ridiculous to infer that Barney isn't capable of better, or even that he doesn't know that this isn't up to the mark. He's as well known for shrugging and saying 'this will do' as he is for being a perfectionist when it suits him. Listen to this, and then listen to Temptation, Ceremony, Turn, Crystal, EGG or any of the other songs that seemed to get better and better the first thousand times we listened to them. You didn't have to try to like them - they were brilliant. This isn't shit, but it doesn't deserve to be compared to anything but the worst of anything that Barney's been involved in before.

You're entitled to your opinion, as am I, but if you call me a toolbox again I will come to Australia and kick your head in.

BIGtool that's put a spanner in your works!

This is the best use of a Rickenbacker 12 string ever! (from about 1 minute in). If only more people weren't so precious about them (though they do cost too much and break easily so...)

Diamond 383 wrote: You can do a lot more with a 12 String than twiddle about the D Chord. Listen to the start of Electronic's version of Can't Find My Way Home, for example. It's a truly amazing instrument to play and all everyone does when they pick one up is D Dsus4 D like the Byrds have been doing since the 60s. It dominates the soundscape and is a shortcut to catchy. It genuinely offends me as a pissy appeal for people to love it. "Listen to me, I'm catchy."

It's ridiculous to infer that Barney isn't capable of better, or even that he doesn't know that this isn't up to the mark. He's as well known for shrugging and saying 'this will do' as he is for being a perfectionist when it suits him. Listen to this, and then listen to Temptation, Ceremony, Turn, Crystal, EGG or any of the other songs that seemed to get better and better the first thousand times we listened to them. You didn't have to try to like them - they were brilliant. This isn't shit, but it doesn't deserve to be compared to anything but the worst of anything that Barney's been involved in before.

You're entitled to your opinion, as am I, but if you call me a toolbox again I will come to Australia and kick your head in.

OK, fair do's. Not saying he isn't capable of better, but he's not exactly covered himself in lyrical glory much since Regret though has he? (Turn excepted, good point)

While I get your point re: the Dsus jangliness, I still think there's a bit more to SoS than that, but like you said - each to their own. It's in F#m though, just to add to my risk of intercontinental head-kickdom. CTB

I think the problem I have with the riff is that it doesn't change throughout the song. The best 'riff' songs don't use the fucking thing all the way through the piece, or they at least vary it.

I'm going to let you off for now. I've just checked the price of the flights and you're not worth it.

But think on.

F#m indeed. I know people you know.

Sink or Swin is a good song, it is not a great song like Regret, Crystal or Krafty in my opinion but is it still good song, it is still better to get some sort of NO related material that getting nothing at all, I listen to alot of NME radio and it is much better that half of the new crap they are playing, so it might not be a classic but I still will buy the album and check their gigs in they come to NYC.

Toolbox wrote:

The lyrics don't mean anything in particular. It's a jumble of meaningless metaphors

I am shocked to read these words on a New Order message board.

ShugZV wrote: "Sink or Swim" is a pop song for the ages, a song that will be as relevant to its time and place as "All You Need is Love" or "Johnny B. Goode" were to theirs. In its essence, it depicts the mood of the naughties better than any other song. Just as interesting is its topicality. On one hand, "Sink or Swim" possesses an introspective melody with poignant lyrics reflecting on self-motivation and the meaning of life. On the other, it’s a simple but catchy little ditty that sounds great emanating from a portable radio.

Double Post! HOOOOOORAY!!!

I like he sings about Jesus, the group is blessed from now on. Maybe that's the point of the song. He does not want another New Order Story.

runwild wrote: I like he sings about Jesus, the group is blessed from now on. Maybe that's the point of the song. He does not want another New Order Story.

Blessed by who?

(I was touched by the hand of god, I never knew it but I thought I was)

That reminds me of the woman in the Vatican giftshop.

"Blessed. Everything blessed, yes."

Another song about Jesus

It reminds me of the weather we have had nearly all summer. Limp, wet, bland and uninspiring.

I like the light, fluffy and airy feel to it.

The sound is delightful, with beautiful harmonies and strings.

Barney just has one of those voices that I can't not like, no matter what song it is (apart from "Working Overtime," ugh). Even if this record is underwhelming, I'll come back to the Bernard vocal tracks. He has this trick that just makes me listen.

Jake's not half bad at singing either.

Dunno how people are listening to the track (ipods, pc speakers?) but I just played the 320k .mp3 of it through some huge speakers and it sounds f'in ace!.

Cant wait to hear this live and very loud.

Tock wrote: Dunno how people are listening to the track (ipods, pc speakers?) but I just played the 320k .mp3 of it through some huge speakers and it sounds f'in ace!.

Cant wait to hear this live and very loud.

Played it through Bose Headphones, quality is amazing for a lossy format.

I've just played it through better headphones and that 12-string sounds a lot better in the mix. Far less intrusive.

In fact, I quite like it now.

It reminds me somewhat of World Party with Is it like today.

Toolbox wrote: In fact, I quite like it now.

Bloody hell, I'm still trying to like it, but failing miserably...

Some of you guys are taking this way too seriously. Put your heads down on the desk. Stop over analysing everything. It's not New Order, it's not Electronic, it's definitely not Joy Division. It's pop, with ambivalent, Barney-esque lyrics.