Preview of 'Sink or Swim' B-side (called Dynamo)...

I disagree completely with almost everything here. He has a gift for writing upbeat, take-on-the-world, believe in yourself tunes that have a great emotional sweep to them that don't come off as corny or insincere.

I imagine that type of song takes much more to successfully pull off then the 'cryptic, postmodern nihilist, world-without-meaning-where-you-can-string-any bullshit-together-as-long-as-it-sounds-bleak-and-intellectual you'll-get-a-free-pass' *cough Grizzly Bear/Bloc Party cough* type song.

However, the cover for Sink or Swim is AWFUL, AWFUL, AWFUL - wtf are they thinking!

M1 wrote:

0_o wrote: Morrissey and Mark E Smith are still doing the same thing they have done for years

See that's interesting, I would lump Mozzer in with Barney (and Michael Stipe another glaring example) as someone whose lyrics - and consequently songs - have lost all mystique and obtuseness in exchange for plodding literalism and bad poetry.

Isn't this the whole point that everyone else is missing? Bernard has been producing this kind of music/ lyrics for years - which is what most of us like about him. Musically the Stones, Bowie, Neil Young, Stipe, Dylan, Morrissey, Mark E. Smith etc are all long term musicians who are essentially doing the same thing successfully (ok maybe not Mark E.) - do we expect groundbreaking now??? Those musicians who do change styles are generally attacked for selling out. Do we want Morrissey or Bernard to start sounding like the Arctic Monkeys or Friendly Fires or whoever?

If we were to change the medium to literature do long term writers/ poets suddenly change style? Artists? Actors? Sports people? - will Ronaldo gliding past Cheslki players to win the Champs League for Real this year be dismissed because it was the kind of thing he has been doing at Old Trafford for 6 years???? Of course not.

I for 1 will be buying the Freebass and Bad Lieutenant albums hoping that both Hooky and Bernard are continuing to produce the type of music I have always enjoyed- not because they are attempting to imitate whatever sad new hopeful band the NME say are in this month. I will go to the Manc BL gig hoping to be entertained as NO have always done at their gigs and if it's half as good as most of the NO nights I've had then I will be pretty happy.

FtotheDoubleOff wrote: I disagree completely with almost everything here. He has a gift for writing upbeat, take-on-the-world, believe in yourself tunes that have a great emotional sweep to them that don't come off as corny or insincere.

I imagine that type of song takes much more to successfully pull off then the 'cryptic, postmodern nihilist, world-without-meaning-where-you-can-string-any bullshit-together-as-long-as-it-sounds-bleak-and-intellectual you'll-get-a-free-pass' *cough Grizzly Bear/Bloc Party cough* type song.

However, the cover for Sink or Swim is AWFUL, AWFUL, AWFUL - wtf are they thinking!

You are right about that , people here put everything down that NO does, from Republic to WFTSC, these are good albums and they don't deserve the bashing that it gets from people, even after a while I started thinking like them and it is no good, Sink or Swim and Dynamo sound good also but again people here are putting them down,hey people Barney is almost 50 and at that age it is very hard to be making cutting edge music , just be thank ful that we are still getting good music from him.

The cover for Sink or Swim is just the promo version, the artwork is still yet to come so don't worry.

My least fave Barnster lyrics are those 'Hey let's get our proverbial acts in gear' shite. That's why Close Range is the worst track on Get Ready and 'Hey Now What You Doing' the worst NO song title.

Dynamo sounds terrible....

Sink Or Swim sounds OK, but I have to listen to the whole album first...

Barney needs to:-

• do lots of drugs again
• go through a breakup with his mrs again

then his lyrics would improve again. at the moment he really has nothing interesting to say so he just makes up corny lyrics that rhyme...

redken wrote: Barney needs to:-

• do lots of drugs again
• go through a breakup with his mrs again

then his lyrics would improve again. at the moment he really has nothing interesting to say so he just makes up corny lyrics that rhyme...

Well said.

Confusion33 wrote:

M1 wrote:

0_o wrote: Morrissey and Mark E Smith are still doing the same thing they have done for years

See that's interesting, I would lump Mozzer in with Barney (and Michael Stipe another glaring example) as someone whose lyrics - and consequently songs - have lost all mystique and obtuseness in exchange for plodding literalism and bad poetry.

Isn't this the whole point that everyone else is missing? Bernard has been producing this kind of music/ lyrics for years - which is what most of us like about him. Musically the Stones, Bowie, Neil Young, Stipe, Dylan, Morrissey, Mark E. Smith etc are all long term musicians who are essentially doing the same thing successfully (ok maybe not Mark E.) - do we expect groundbreaking now??? Those musicians who do change styles are generally attacked for selling out. Do we want Morrissey or Bernard to start sounding like the Arctic Monkeys or Friendly Fires or whoever?

Actually, I think you've completely missed my point. my argument is that Barney, Mozzer and Stipey, far from 'doing the same thing' have actually significantly changed their styles from something poetic, intangible and affecting to something more linear and predictable. Barney is under absolutely no obligation to be 'groundbreaking' but he owes it to himself and his art to at least not regress.

Favourite Barney lyric

The chorus to "All The Way" - probably the only couplet that's up there with some of Ian's

If I remember correctly Bernard Sumner said that he would abandon making music altogether if this project is not well received,I can't find the exact quotation but if that is the case then I hope he is not in the habit of checking out these comments..Or maybe when the project sinks he will go back to the day job..I also would imagine that it would be pretty difficult for his fellow musicians to offer any criticisms when the lyrics he comes up with are on the weak side considering his past glories and the fact that they are novices..

El Jarvo wrote:

linus sulanki wrote: hey people Barney is almost 50

Oh no he isn't!

heh! missed that one!

yeah, he sure is old, NEARING 50 years of age...

(linus: old guy link )

M1 wrote:

Confusion33 wrote:

M1 wrote:

0_o wrote: Morrissey and Mark E Smith are still doing the same thing they have done for years

See that's interesting, I would lump Mozzer in with Barney (and Michael Stipe another glaring example) as someone whose lyrics - and consequently songs - have lost all mystique and obtuseness in exchange for plodding literalism and bad poetry.

Isn't this the whole point that everyone else is missing? Bernard has been producing this kind of music/ lyrics for years - which is what most of us like about him. Musically the Stones, Bowie, Neil Young, Stipe, Dylan, Morrissey, Mark E. Smith etc are all long term musicians who are essentially doing the same thing successfully (ok maybe not Mark E.) - do we expect groundbreaking now??? Those musicians who do change styles are generally attacked for selling out. Do we want Morrissey or Bernard to start sounding like the Arctic Monkeys or Friendly Fires or whoever?

Actually, I think you've completely missed my point. my argument is that Barney, Mozzer and Stipey, far from 'doing the same thing' have actually significantly changed their styles from something poetic, intangible and affecting to something more linear and predictable. Barney is under absolutely no obligation to be 'groundbreaking' but he owes it to himself and his art to at least not regress.

A bit hard to actually work out what your point is, actually.

So, you preferred Barney's earlier lyrics to his newer ones, OK. But - you think he 'owes it to himself and his art' to not regress (by definition, not go back to how it used to be). So, what you are saying is you don't want him to write like he used to. You'd prefer something different to what he's doing now....but it doesn't need to be groundbreaking. Don't expect much, do you?

I'm not denying things are different now in most things NO-related, but do you do things the same way now as you did over 20 years ago? CTB

Everyone here is complaining about 'Hey, what you're doin' lyrics, but the same people love Twitter, and Twitter is all about 'hey what you're doin'. Bernard is in the middle of the zeitgeist!

Toolbox wrote: B-Side of what, exactly?

Are they going to try to sell us a copy, once they've given it away for free?

Good luck with that

I heard Dynamo today and wasn't that much impressed with it, it sounds like a B-side from Twisted Tenderness, let's hope that the rest of the songs on the album are not like that, maybe that's the reason they are giving it away with the Sink or Swin single, but to be honest Dynamo is nothing to be impressed with, sorry but I have to be honest.

After hearing the single DYNAMO and reading some of the reviews ,I am not having good feelings about this album.

[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote: Actually, changed my mind my favourite lyrics of his are True Faith. Awesome lyrics.

When I was a very small boy Michael Jackson played with me

cranelane wrote: Or maybe when the project sinks he will go back to the day job..

Wouldn't that be lead singer of New Order?

Wouldn't that be a good thing?

Excuse me... But I rather like Dynamo.. 'tis much better than Sink or Swim... ok the lyrics are a bit trite, but it's got a few different bits about it.

I think they're both MOR pap to be honest,outtakes from WFTSC without Hooky,not unlike Turn.Now I know Turn is,for the most part,highly regarded on here & it's an ok song,but it's far from anything special is it,& it's just another MOR track alonside Hey Now...Barney sounds like he's just settling into the cardigan & slippers brigade.I'm not in a rush to buy it :\ohwell:

ROM wrote:

cranelane wrote: Or maybe when the project sinks he will go back to the day job..

Wouldn't that be lead singer of New Order?

Wouldn't that be a good thing?

Yeah,back to how things stood when they got back together in 1998 and did the comeback gig at Reading (I think),by that time it was clear that Electronic was not going to set the world on fire and Monaco had done well with the very New Order sounding What Do You Want... So,basically if Bad Lieutenant and Freebass both prove not to be what the world is waiting for then I think we can expect New Order to reform in late 2010 early 2011??