Do you resent Republic for its lack of H00ky?

I know many of you do not like Republic. I remember some of you complaining about the lack of Hookey's bass on it, hence the reason you hate it. But let's look at it from an objectionable standpoint...ignoring your love for Hookey, wouldn't you agree it's one of the best New Order albums ever made, despite the watered down bass? I mean seriously, what's fucking with Regret, World, Ruined in a Day, Spooky, Everyone Everywhere, etc etc? There really isn't one bad track on the album, only a couple of so so tracks like Young Offender and Liar. But the rest are TOP. FUCKING. NOTCH.

So C'mon admit it, you resent Republic because you love Hookey so much you refuse to accept an album if his bass isn't thundering away throughout the whole record.

While I think that the production on Republic is a bit too smooth, and Jooky's bass is indeed way to low in the mix (and literally non existent on Everyone Everywhere, Ruined in a Day, and World), I think Republic is a really great album that has some of New Order's best songs on it. Bernards vocals and lyrics on it are among his best, as is Steve's drumming and Gillians synths.

But it would have been better if Hooky were on it more. Listen to the album version of Spooky, his bass is fantastic on it.

The Ohio corridor weighs in early:

Good question, and honestly, no. I do resent Republic as a blight on the otherwise stellar NO discography up to that point, but not for the lack of Hooky. (Well, a little bit.)

Actually, it's the lack of Stephen Morris that bugs me, if anything. I think Republic and I think drum loops. I certainly don't mind drum machines (I've owned enough of 'em), but the cool thing about New Order is you handed them tech and they did something unexpected and downright cool with it (e.g., the "Blue Monday" kick drum, "586"). Something mildly dangerous.

That said, the tech at the time wasn't that inspiring either IMO. The synths making the rounds at the time were pretty boring machines. Rather than the sound of Barney/Gillian/Stephen wrestling with some wild analog beast and nearly losing, you have very polite, very slick synths.

So there's the formula. Set up a swingin' drum loop, layer some synth pads on top, and... Not that that's not a valid way to write songs; it's a great tool for one person to write a song, but when you have an honest-to-God band like NO on call, it's criminal. Because you end up laying some Hooky bass lines on top like frosting to preserve the "brand."

In my ideal alternate universe, there was no Republic, just "Regret" backed with "Special."

Gnu Odor wrote: I think Republic and I think drum loops.

Exactly. I can't listen to most 90's dance music because of drum loops - one bar repeated endlessly for the duration of a song, with no variation whatsoever. With drum machines you had to map out the structure of a song, and you might make a mistake that lead to something interesting.

Yes, the beats are boring. Not much evidence of Steve, or the band. Like a boring watered down version of early 90s dance, not really inspired. I liked the "Regret" single when it came out, and the "World" remix, but was bored by the album CD, usually turned it off by "Spooky".

1993 was after acid house... Techno harshness was the style in the early 90s and breakbeats were getting faster and more prominent. Hip hop was in the mix also. New Order responded by being bland, almost an adult contempo. version. Spooky and Chemical start out like they will have some energy but break down into very forgetable bland songs. This is hardly a great dance record, maybe for the supermarket maybe.

The songs just are not very good after "Regret", by the middle of the record they are weak and boring. Sumner thinks he is a pop star like a Pet Shop Boy or George Michael at this point. It's just a rather boring record with few good songs. More Hooky, more interesting percussion either harsher or indie band style, better songs... all would have helped.

World and Ruined in a Day are actually made more interesting by their remixes (well, the main remix). The album production is well crafted but uninspired.

It's a great record though I resent Hooky for it's lack of Hooky and the rest of the lazy bastards who left Stephen Hague and his session musicians to finish it.

Republic hasn't stood the test of time too well. I loved it when it first came out, and it does have a certain nostalgia for me as I listened to it nonstop during one of the best summers of my life (between junior / senior year in high school).

But if I listen to it now, it has that ultra-smooth drum loops like others have talked about that make it just bland. The same type of boring loops that eventually went on Raise the Pressure, which hasn't stood up well in time either.

Although Hooky's bass would be a nice addition, I don't think that is what killed the album. It has to be those drum loops... but I do think Barney was on the top of his game for lyrics for Republic.

Gnu Odor wrote: In my ideal alternate universe, there was no Republic, just "Regret" backed with "Special."

That would have been one of the greatest singles in their catalogue, alongside True Faith/1963 and LWTUA/These Days.

Its an 'Electronic' album in all but name.

But on Technique he isnt high enough either

I do mainly,but not just for that,I'm not keen on Stephen Hagues' pop-sheen sensibilities,it just doesn't sound like a NO album to me.It contains one fantastic true NO track in Regret,which is one of my all-time favs',but other than that,even tho' they are good songs,it just doesn't do it for me & I hardly play it :\ohwell:

Best New Order album ever

"Republic" sounded like there wasn't a real band devoting their full attention to the task.

Of course, during production, the Hacienda and Factory Records were imploding. Then add drug habits and the stress inherent in the personal relationships.

So it is no wonder that "Republic" was not that good of a record.

and to echo 50's comments, drum loops (and most break beats) flat out suck.

In my opinion Republic is a great album, it is the first cd that I ever bought and the first New Order cd also, after I heard Regret on a local NY station called Z100, I was in love with that song. Even without Peter Hook's bass it still sounds good, it would have been more better also if had more bass on the album.Overall it is a very good album.

It's all relative...if Republic was the first New Order album you heard, it'll tend to be your favorite.

If you were a fan before 1993, you'll tend to like something else.

Spotnick wrote: Yeah too bad there is no Hooky on Regret

They played most of those songs live, with Hooky not faded out.. did it change anything?

Think it's the way they did the record, each on their own corner, that caused this mostly...

I totally agree. Not a bad album though for a band not being on the same page.

regarding True Faith, but the same could be said for Republic...

"I remember getting some criticism at the time for having Hooky a little submerged in the mixes, and listening to it now they were absolutely right. The bass is too low. But you know, I didn't have any experience mixing bass as a lead instrument, I didn't know quite how to handle it, and the result was vibey, but not quite right. You have to lean forward to hear everything he's playing, and while that's not an uncomfortable feeling, if I were doing the mix now I would definitely bring that fader up. Maybe he should have dug in his heels a bit more at the time."

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar05/articles/classictracks.htm

It's atleast got novelty value, good artwork, and baywatch barney.

its amazing that they got it done and released, considering the turmoil of the time. its better than no release in my book. its an ok album. complete opposite of brotherhood (which was vastly underproduced). republic is all gloss and no edge (apart from the truely great regret).

never the less, world, RIAD, Spooky, everyone everywhere, times change, special and avalance are all good. it just doesn have that spark that no are renowned for and plays too safe.

I adore Republic. It holds together thematically and in mood better than most NO albums IMO. Special is still right up there as one of my favourite NO moments ever. Yeah maybe it would be better with more Hooky but as somebody already mentioned, he's underplayed on Technique as well and that's arguably their finest work. Love the production, it adds an elegance and important cohesion that was probably needed at the time.

Performer [Additional Musicians] Andy Duncan , Audrey Riley , David Rhodes , Dee Lewis

Utopia wrote: Performer [Additional Musicians] Andy Duncan , Audrey Riley , David Rhodes , Dee Lewis

I wonder how much music on the album was played by these guys? If its minimal then fine but if it was, say 40% then Id be a little worried.

I actually think Hookys bass is fine on Technique. To me, I can hear it distintively on all songs. I think maybe its just not used as a lead so much but I think the songs are better for it. They sound more cohesive and balanced.

M1 wrote: I adore Republic. It holds together thematically and in mood better than most NO albums IMO. Special is still right up there as one of my favourite NO moments ever. Yeah maybe it would be better with more Hooky but as somebody already mentioned, he's underplayed on Technique as well and that's arguably their finest work. Love the production, it adds an elegance and important cohesion that was probably needed at the time.

Hooky underplayed on Technique??!! You think so? I don't & I would definately agree if I thought otherwise,'cos I just love hearing Hookys' bass & am very,very disappointed if it's underplayed,a la Republic.Anyway,it's all over the whole album with the exception of Mr.Disco & Dream Attack,& contains some of his best work,so,for me,I'm very happy with it

Been to Adelaide by the way,gorgeous city,wish I lived there

And if you cant hear Hookys bass on All The Way, Loveless, Round and Round, Guilty Partner and Run....then you must be tone deaf and should be put in an old peoples home.

I resent Republic because, until the advent of Rock The Shack, Working Overtime and I Told You So, it boasted in Young Offender, Liar, Chemical, and Times Change the four worst tracks the band ever put on an album. The presence or absence of the playing of Mr. P Hook is largely an irrelevance if the songs are shit.

And Adelaide's good for about two days of yuks tops.

NO Regret wrote: And if you cant hear Hookys bass on All The Way, Loveless, Round and Round, Guilty Partner and Run....then you must be tone deaf and should be put in an old peoples home.

:D

Indeed, i fucking love that album, it's very NO in the 90's. It's not the dark 80's anymore. Still it has a dark feeling and regret is one of the best things thye have EVER done, EVER

Ally wrote: Republic is underrated and much maligned IMO but realistically speaking the album probably would've worked better as an EP - cutting out the filler like Liar, Young Offender etc - and of course turning up Hooky in the mix. The angelic production probably needed a rougher edge here or there to bring the tracks to life.

I feel pretty much the opposite way. I think most of the material is decent, and that they gain from the album context. Along with Technique, it's the NO album that is most thematically consistent.

Unfortunately, there is also a lack of outstanding tracks - I'd give nearly everything 3/5. Nothing grates on me like a number of songs off Get Ready,WFTSC and the last two Electronic albums do. I never really had a problem with "Young Offender" or "Liar". I even dig Barney's rap on "Times Change". It's a shame Mr. Tune never paid a visit while they were making "Chemical", but even that's quite an attractive recording. On the other hand, I don't appreciate "Ruined" or "Everyone Everywhere" as much as some seem to.