I'm Probably Going To Cop Shit For This But......
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Awww,that's sweet that you think so. You know what though. I always wondered if Get Ready was so guitar heavy because of a little insecurity on their part.....that maybe they thought they couldn't pull off the same kind of music without her. I always thought that that extra "shimmering sparkle" they had in their music was from her.
It does seem a little sexist that Hooky's departure was greeted with more fanfare than hers. It just goes to show you that New Order were more than the sum of their parts.
annmuin wrote:
It does seem a little sexist that Hooky's departure was greeted with more fanfare than hers.
Well she didn't exactly split the band did she?
damien1871 wrote: New Order should have changed their name or ceased to exist after Gillian left the band
Why's that then damien1871 mate?
I just think that Gillian had a strong presence in New Order and was an integral part of the group that I love.I think the sound changed a bit too after she left(to these ears it did anyway).I believe in auras and to me she had one that shone in the group.I dunno,I just felt that when she left it wasnt really New Order anymore.
damien1871 wrote: New Order should have changed their name or ceased to exist after Gillian left the band
Why so? They were New Order before she joined, they had every right to continue calling themselves New Order after she left, the three original members of New Order were still there.
CTB
annmuin wrote: Awww,that's sweet that you think so. You know what though. I always wondered if Get Ready was so guitar heavy because of a little insecurity on their part.....that maybe they thought they couldn't pull off the same kind of music without her. I always thought that that extra "shimmering sparkle" they had in their music was from her.
It does seem a little sexist that Hooky's departure was greeted with more fanfare than hers. It just goes to show you that New Order were more than the sum of their parts.
For the record - Get Ready was recorded with Gillian, she left the band after the album was completed. Also, the percieved lack of media interest in her departure wasn't sexist - Hooky's departure was more dramatic; by all accounts Gillian's departure was amicable and entirely understandable from what we know of the circumstances. She also didn't threaten to sue anyone on a myspace blog, for example...
My novice interpretation (as a synth based New Order fan)
Gillian added a special synth touch to New Order.
I think Hooky once said that WFTSC needed dance tunes since Get Ready didn't cater to the synth dance New Order fans. Its hard to please all the New Order fans (guitar based fans synth based fans... etc)
I don't think New Order recovered to their 100% strength after Gillian left but Barney's song lyric technique on WFTSC still gave me hope in New Order.
Perhaps someone can help me to have a better understanding of Gillian's replacement Phil.
Did Phil know how to play the keyboard/synths before he joined New Order?
Was Phil comfortable playing keyboard/synth with New Order or did he only want to play the guitar with New Order. He must have known what he was getting himself into when he joined New Order. I feel that he was out of his comfort zone when he played the keyboard with new Order, please someone correct me.
Phil is so focused and a professional when he play's the guitar.
I love the way Steve if flexing his synth muscles on Bad Lieutenant ?
Even though Bad Lieutenant are guitar based, I was excited when they played a synth version of BLT on the PSB tour instead of the acoustic version. Steve will navigate Bad Lieutenant in the right direction.
annmuin wrote: Damien, I think I caught more flak than you did mate! I was happy to deflect it, lol.
Ann, sorry didn't mean to give you flak - just a common misconeption by some here that Get Ready was a post-Gillian album, which it wasn't. No offence intended!
CTB
damien1871 wrote: New Order should have changed their name or ceased to exist after Gillian left the band
damien 666
CTB wrote: For the record - Get Ready was recorded with Gillian, ...
Not true. Gillian was not involved in Get Ready - at least according to her.
CTB nails it on the head 
Gillian left in 2001 for completely different reasons to Hooky in 2006. Surely it would have been a bit bizarre to expect them to rename the band on the sole premise Gillian had to step out for family reasons? She left on amicable terms.
New Order had been around for 20 years by that point, it was a brand name and stopping to use it in '01 and starting all over again as a new outfit would have been total overkill. It would've confused fans, muddied the waters and potentially jeopardised the success of Get Ready and subsequent gigs.
The split of 2006 was clearly much more serious. Hooky made it clear he didn't want to be in the band any more and they couldn't really continue. I'll bet there was a hefty amount of legalities going on behind the scenes as well. It was sadly pretty acrimonious.
The two departures aren't really comparable in my mind... of course, Gillian was a valued member of the band but I think some people are inventing conspiracies where there aren't any 
Arfur Fuscake wrote:
CTB wrote: For the record - Get Ready was recorded with Gillian, ...
Not true. Gillian was not involved in Get Ready - at least according to her.
Really? Genuinely surprised by this - even the biography on this site says that Gillian had input to the Get Ready sessions. So instead it was just the original 3 members on GR?
CTB wrote:
Arfur Fuscake wrote:
CTB wrote: For the record - Get Ready was recorded with Gillian, ...
Not true. Gillian was not involved in Get Ready - at least according to her.
Really? Genuinely surprised by this - even the biography on this site says that Gillian had input to the Get Ready sessions. So instead it was just the original 3 members on GR?
I always assumed she was involved. She was certainly in all the press shots at the time.
Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: erm...what does cop shit mean???
I think its originally an Australian term(I lived there for quite a few years).In this case it means to be verbally attacked or have the piss taken out of.
M1 wrote:
CTB wrote:
Arfur Fuscake wrote:
CTB wrote: For the record - Get Ready was recorded with Gillian, ...
Not true. Gillian was not involved in Get Ready - at least according to her.
Really? Genuinely surprised by this - even the biography on this site says that Gillian had input to the Get Ready sessions. So instead it was just the original 3 members on GR?
I always assumed she was involved. She was certainly in all the press shots at the time.
All I can say is I met Gillian and Steve about 3 weeks before Get Ready was released. She told me she hadn't been involved, thought the album was good but wasn't to keen on Crystal.
So Gillian wasn't on Get Ready? I knew it! It just doesn't sound like her. It sounds like an all guys jamming on guitars record. For the record, I don't think New Order would have been as good if she had never joined. I mean, if the three original members of JD had continued as a three piece. It's too bad circumstances prevent her from joining Bad Lieutenant. I bet they would have sounded great....
Gillian helped with the construction of the music on "Get Ready". Most sources say that she recorded on at least some of the album.
Have another listen to "Someone Like You" or the missed-from-album track, "Here To Stay".
Chris Nash wrote: Gillian helped with the construction of the music on "Get Ready". Most sources say that she recorded on at least some of the album.
Have another listen to "Someone Like You" or the missed-from-album track, "Here To Stay".
Who did the vocals on Someone Like You if not her?
M1 wrote:
Chris Nash wrote: Gillian helped with the construction of the music on "Get Ready". Most sources say that she recorded on at least some of the album.
Have another listen to "Someone Like You" or the missed-from-album track, "Here To Stay".
Who did the vocals on Someone Like You if not her?
A lot of folks here thought the same, but according to Hooky, it was Dawn Zee. Doesn't really sound like Dawn to these ears though, for what its worth.
CTB wrote:
M1 wrote:
Chris Nash wrote: Gillian helped with the construction of the music on "Get Ready". Most sources say that she recorded on at least some of the album.
Have another listen to "Someone Like You" or the missed-from-album track, "Here To Stay".
Who did the vocals on Someone Like You if not her?
A lot of folks here thought the same, but according to Hooky, it was Dawn Zee. Doesn't really sound like Dawn to these ears though, for what its worth.
Nope, sounds just like Gillian
From the recent LTM Other Two reissues:
"Both Morris and Gilbert took part in writing and recording seventh New Order album Get Ready, released in 2001, but Gilbert stepped back from touring, and soon after left the group. "
I got really impressed when I saw her on stage doing WIM's back vocals with Dawn Zee in Finsbury Park gig in 2002 (though I couldn't hear his voice). That was her last time on stage with the boys
Another way of looking at this is that New Order SHOULD NOT have changed their name when Hooky left.
Yes it was acrimonious, but it seems more than a bit unfair that Hooky blocked Steve, Phil and Barney from carrying on with the brand.
It also means smaller pay checks for all of them and that makes no sense given the financial bloodletting of the Factory era.
Hooky could have asked for a small percentage of the income from all future NO releases; a far more sensible approach.
UpDownTurnAround wrote: Another way of looking at this is that New Order SHOULD NOT have changed their name when Hooky left.
Yes it was acrimonious, but it seems more than a bit unfair that Hooky blocked Steve, Phil and Barney from carrying on with the brand.
It also means smaller pay checks for all of them and that makes no sense given the financial bloodletting of the Factory era.
Hooky could have asked for a small percentage of the income from all future NO releases; a far more sensible approach.
So you think it is cool when other band leaders do that? Some old band leader uses his old band name and surrounds himself with younger kissass bandmates, and maybe pays the drummer to tour to add authenticity. JD and NO avoided that for so long, no reason to end that way to diminishing returns.
Nick King wrote: From the recent LTM Other Two reissues:
"Both Morris and Gilbert took part in writing and recording seventh New Order album Get Ready, released in 2001, but Gilbert stepped back from touring, and soon after left the group. "
Absolutely.
Someone Like You sounds like an Other Two track with contributions by Barney and Hooky.
