Why Hooky's Ian Curtis Tribute Plans Feel Wrong
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I think that article sums it up really,i think Hookys in danger of selling the JD/NO legacy down the river for quick financial gain,im sorry anyone who dont agree,but i think a lot of us feel the same.At least Bernard is trying to do something new.
This is just typical NME "we're more important than the bands" utter bollocks, yes at the age of 20 curtis wasn't into nostalgia, no one at that age is, but had he lived, his opinion would have changed with maturity, as everyone elses does, it's natural.
Hooky is giving the oportunity to see him and some mates performing joy division songs, there are obviously a lot of people who want to see it and a lot of people that don't, but that's just there opinions, which they're entitled to, but no one is sayng if you don't go you're not a true JD or NO fan.
fuck what people think, the whole album played ,, 31 years on thats some wait,, might be crap,, but hese entitled to play em .
ive been waiting
Another 20 year old writer that can't stand "selling out". To be quite honest, the older I get, the less the term "selling out" makes sense.
Hooky's gotta club, and he can do any damn thing he wants in it. Obviously he would have a tribute for Ian... what would the Hac be without it? Its not like he's making a world tour outta this thing.
The emo writer needs to quit his tears over something so trite. I'm with Hooky on this.
Well, I like to hear all kinds of opinions---everyone can express their own opinion, right?
Those who wanna go and can go, should rightfully go and have a good time. Those who can't go but want to---sorry to hear that. Those who aren't interested---whatever.
it feels odd for me as well but... doesn't Hooky have the right to do whatever he wants with HIS art? i mean, in JD/NO's history many people made money with them but not really the actual musicians. they even put a lot of money in the Haçienda. so to be honest, don't they deserve the right to do whatever they want? we may or may not agree according to our own ethics. but we've never been in a band like JD/NO so i wonder what would we do in Hookys shoes. 
my 2 cents...
Hooky is an artist. He helped to create much of the music that he is reflecting on and he has earned the right to reflect on it and honor it in any way he sees fit.
Joy Division wasn't "Ian's band"...to suggest that people should tiptoe around what they think he may have wanted or how he may have reacted is ridiculous.
If people don't want to hear it then don't go.
Hydrapelican wrote: Joy Division wasn't "Ian's band"...to suggest that people should tiptoe around what they think he may have wanted or how he may have reacted is ridiculous.
i agree 100% here. it pisses me off the people who thinks JD was all Ian. i even heard some of them saying Ian had the idea of the UP sleeve, that he made ALL the songs (of course, not the ones they don't like much!), etc. as time goes by he even seems to have done even more things. it's trully ridiculous!
Has anyone bothered to buy this week's NME? If so, could they post Hooky's reply here - a scan will do?
It answers most of the above comments...
From a brief read in the newsagents, musicians appearing will include Simon Topping (ACR), Alan Hempnall (Crispy Ambulance), Rowetta, and Hooky singing some tracks...
As to whether he can perform this, I don't see any reason why not... If people don't want to go - it's fucking simple - don't fucking well go... 
Nick King wrote: Has anyone bothered to buy this week's NME? If so, could they post Hooky's reply here - a scan will do?
It answers most of the above comments...
From a brief read in the newsagents, musicians appearing will include Simon Topping (ACR), Alan Hempnall (Crispy Ambulance), Rowetta, and Hooky singing some tracks...
As to whether he can perform this, I don't see any reason why not... If people don't want to go - it's fucking simple - don't fucking well go...
lANGUAGE tIMOTHY
Bad Loot wrote:
Nick King wrote: Has anyone bothered to buy this week's NME? If so, could they post Hooky's reply here - a scan will do?
It answers most of the above comments...
From a brief read in the newsagents, musicians appearing will include Simon Topping (ACR), Alan Hempnall (Crispy Ambulance), Rowetta, and Hooky singing some tracks...
As to whether he can perform this, I don't see any reason why not... If people don't want to go - it's fucking simple - don't fucking well go...
lANGUAGE tIMOTHY
That kid doesn't look old enough to write anything but a book report. It reminds me of the boy I saw in a restaurant this past weekend in a full-on Exploited-style mohawk. We now live in a time where it's possible for a kid to have the same look, hairstyle, and music idols as their parents and grandparents. Yet they want to feel like it's something they've discovered, not for Old People.
I agree - any of them should be able to do what they like with their material. NME has been shite for years but I still bought it for info. When they jumped on the Artic Monkeys bandwagon they became like the Daily Star with total bollocks every week just to sell their crap to todays teenagers. I have not bought it since then.
Hooky is an artist. He helped to create much of the music that he is reflecting on and he has earned the right to reflect on it and honor it in any way he sees fit.
Joy Division wasn't "Ian's band"...to suggest that people should tiptoe around what they think he may have wanted or how he may have reacted is ridiculous.
If people don't want to hear it then don't go.
....aaaand the award for "Most Overused Phrase On The Forum" this week goes to "If you don't like it, don't go" 
unfortunately with forums and blogs people will always have their say... the inconsiderate bastards :p
I'm sure Hooky can take critiques of the project both good and bad by this stage. There were always gonna be some. I said my tuppence on this when it first appeared and got no real desire to repeat it. The ex-members of NO will do what they like and it'll never exactly tally with what each of us expects of them so erm... live with it.
Can anyone upload a transcript of his response in the paper? I stopped buying NME years ago and have zero intention of starting again now. I read the blog and if that's what NME hacks pass off as quality, hard hitting and thought provoking journalism these days then it's gotten much worse than last time I picked up a copy.
Nick King wrote:
El Jarvo wrote: I'm lost, is anyone actually going to this thing then?
I'm not!
Nah, me neither.
I feel really strongly about Hooky selling the Joy Division legacy down the drain for a quick buck.
On the anniversary of whathisface's death too. 
Er, when is it again?
El Jarvo wrote:
Nick King wrote:
El Jarvo wrote: I'm lost, is anyone actually going to this thing then?
I'm not!
Nah, me neither.
I feel really strongly about Hooky selling the Joy Division legacy down the drain for a quick buck.
On the anniversary of whathisface's death too.
Er, when is it again?
Damn good question!
I'm not really that much of a Joy Division fan anyway... 
If you wanna know what Hooky feels about this... While this is not the rebuttal in the NME, here's a Hooky interview in which he talks a bit about the tribute thing.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/music/Interview--Peter-Hook-Looking.6249605.jp
In the interview, he says:
It's 30 years since Joy Division and I want to celebrate the music we made together. It's unfortunate not to be able to do it with Steve and Bernard, but I wasn't going to let it go because this album laid the road for my life. If nobody else comes and it ends up with just me playing to a couple of mates, I don't care, because those songs were such an important part of my life and I'm going to celebrate those 30 years – and if anyone else wants to come along for the ride, then great.
leather_girl wrote: If you wanna know what Hooky feels about this... While this is not the rebuttal in the NME, here's a Hooky interview in which he talks a bit about the tribute thing.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/music/Interview--Peter-Hook-Looking.6249605.jp
In the interview, he says:
It's 30 years since Joy Division and I want to celebrate the music we made together. It's unfortunate not to be able to do it with Steve and Bernard, but I wasn't going to let it go because this album laid the road for my life. If nobody else comes and it ends up with just me playing to a couple of mates, I don't care, because those songs were such an important part of my life and I'm going to celebrate those 30 years – and if anyone else wants to come along for the ride, then great.
Wise words 
Just my two cents.
I personally wouldn't go, but I will be happy for Hooky if he SINGS it.
If they get some other singer to do Ian's part, then it's totally wrong.
Personally, I like Peter's voice and reckon New Order went slightly down hill once they seemingly decided Hooky was never going to sing lead again.
Old artists have a right to explore/exploit their past works. People are only moaning because they still want the Joy Division image to be something unknown', edgy' and secretive' to make their own selves look cool'
Well, tough! It ain't! You aren't! They're possibly the most influential band from that era. And a massive influence on bands today. Everyone knows about them! Not least because they've been telling everyone else about themselves for a good two decades or so.
Get your own secrets and narratives, NME readers and journalists! Or are you too conservative?
It doesn't matter if you think the person who wrote the article isn't old enough to have an opinion : he has a point. If in doubt, attack the messenger not the message.
I agree with him. Peter Hook And The Blokes performing a Joy Division album is too far removed from the original material to me to have much authenticity. If Hooky was performing his original parts it could be seen as a recreation, but Hooky singing someone elses material, whilst someone else performs Hooky's role is too near to Nostalgia Karaoke for my liking. I'm not saying I know better, or my opinion is definitive, but my opinion is as valid as anyone elses.
Watching 3/4s of New Order perform New Order songs has a clear lineage. Watching 1/4 of JD perform Joy Division songs doesn't to me - the line is blurred.
It bothers me, actually, that Bad Lieutenant perform so many JD songs - because it's only half of JD, and sometimes Bernard isn't performing the guitar lines he originally did. Despite being the 'replacement singer', at least Barney has that role to fill, but watching 1/2th of Joy Division perform Joy Division songs has a stronger lineage than watching 1/4 of Joy Division perform Joy Division songs, and not performing the parts they originally did, but someone elses.
Think of it this way, would Krist Novoselic do a tour of "Krist sings Nevermind with The Girl from L7"? And how would people who don't like Nirvana that much feel about it?
foxystarship wrote: Old artists have a right to explore/exploit their past works. People are only moaning because they still want the Joy Division image to be something
unknown',edgy' andsecretive' to make their own selves lookcool'
Mmmm I don't think so really. You're implying that anyone who expresses concern as to how the band's legacy is treated is acting purely out of vanity and insecurity. That's clearly bollocks. I just think some are concerned we'll soon be seeing The Ian Curtis Happy Meal at McDonalds or something like that. Imagine the "Transmission Burger"; two beef patties and a special Factory inspired sauce between an toasted "Indie" ciabatta. You think something like that really wouldn't cheapen the legacy?
Of course, it's not quite at that level and hopefully never will be but I reckon it's healthy fans have an opinion on what's being done with JD's legacy. Factory being inspired by punk was inherently anti-commercial and railed against the "old guard" who had their pension plans and Greatest Hits compilations all mapped out like a bank manager's career. On the flip side money makes the world go round and nobody can be that blinkered not to expect some justified barrel scraping going on here and there.
I'm sure the irony of stuff like this NME blog and FUC51 is not lost on Hooky. To some he's suddenly become what he railed against himself in the 70s and 80s: the "new" old guard. A lot of what they've written is bollocks but there are one or two grains of truth in there...
foxystarship wrote: Old artists have a right to explore/exploit their past works. People are only moaning because they still want the Joy Division image to be something
unknown',edgy' andsecretive' to make their own selves lookcool'
I don't think so really. You're implying that anyone who expresses concern as to how the band's legacy is treated is acting purely out of vanity and insecurity. That's clearly bollocks.
Ok, that's fair. I admit not everyone is like that. But I still think it's more nostalgic/naive to take that attitude of wanting them to refuse to sell out and to remain true to their punk legacy'. They've been selling out for years. And even when they were proper factory, they were still capitalists and made money... They were never TRULY anti-commercial'... They just put certain things above making money... but not always.... They let a credit card company use `blue monday' for an ad...and didn't they even let an advert use LWTUA once?
Does Hooky's actions cheapen the legacy? Not in my view, nothing can cheapen their legacy. The music/lyrics/performance will stand on their own feet for the age of the universe/humanity as far as I'm concerned.
Of course, there'd be issues of taste with Ian Curtis happy meals etc. But Hooky revisiting Unknown Pleasures with a couple of mates for one night? I just don't get the objection. Do you feel like he doesn't deserve to do it or something?
But I agree with you it's good to rail against the old guard' that JD is now... But it should be a general attitude to take against ALL the old punks/factory dudes/whatever. Not to single out one person who is quite nostalgic, possibly quite artistically lonely' for the first time in his life and feels he's getting to the age where he wants to look back a lot.
The thing is, I think the `clingy' attitude of people wanting JD to remain fresh in the public image is actually, conversely, what holds a lot of new music/ideas back.
It's not just JD, but that whole punk generation in general. We worship them too much and scold them when they don't meet our high standards of `anti-commercialism' etc. Well, sod 'em. Why do we need them? What about our own narratives?
Sorry if I sounded a bit personal there, interesting debate!
No offence taken, yep it's good to have a proper debate without the usual personal shit descending...
I totally agree even a band like JD/NO need to license their music to commercial products and advertisements to make some cash; I would hope no fan's that idealistic that they don't realise this. The McDonalds meal thing was just a throwaway comment for a laugh, I have enough faith (fingers crossed) it would never ever get that bad.
Of course Hooky has a right to play those tunes but I think even he would admit there has been an awful lot of looking back for the past five years regarding Joy Division. It is for wont of a better term "nostalgia saturation" but as has been said, each to their own. Playing a complete set of Joy Division versus say Bad Lieutenant playing a few tracks interspersed with new material is slightly different to me.
I'm sure some people will enjoy this UP thing. I am however more interested in the Freebass stuff and what the future brings... fair enough you need to know your past to look ahead but I think even the most ignorant fashionista 17 year-old knows who Ian Curtis is by now. The legacy, the albums and the films are all there if people can be bothered to look...
