Bad Lieutenant: is Bernard's heart really in it????

What a load of bollocks.

Ok.. where do i start.. In Brighton. A town about 250 miles from Manchester where BL played their debut gig about a year ago in front of about 500 people.

A few people from this site were there, ready to abuse Barney (as is the Manc tradition). They shuffled onstage, started nervously, and we heckled the bollocks out of them. But slowly, they grew in confidence, and won us over. By the gig at Heaven in London the next night, it was a love in. Like shagging an old ex dirty girlfriend after a five year hiatus.

Anyone there could never question commitment. Musically yes, they are not great. Money? can't see Barney making any money out of touring. It would probably be a loss every time. But balls for doing it? no question.

As a person who has done about 25-30 odd gigs in different countries with many miles, i find it amusing to see someone question things who hasn't ever been to a gig in 25 years, despite NO playing over a 100 gigs in his country.

If you actually get up off yer 'ass' and do a gig, when they do rebook, then I'm sure you can comment on commitment. But it would require commitment first, by actually booking a ticket and getting off the couch and going.

I think it'd be unreasonable to expect that NO should have toured every part of the world extensively, given Bernard's thoughts about touring and perhaps whatever was happening w/ him & Hooky. However I do believe he tries to make the most out of the touring experience, because obviously he can't stand on stage w/ an angry face saying to the people that he hates touring.

At least BL have been touring at their own pace and the fact that he feels he can get on w/ the members of BL...without that, I think he might've been more miserable on tour.

PS- Considering how there are other countries NO haven't been to, I do not intend to criticise the number of times they've been to Japan or S. America. I think they tried their hardest to go wherever they could. And I still believe Hooky & Barney have their hearts in whatever they do musically.

leather_girl wrote:

However I do believe he tries to make the most out of the touring experience, because obviously he can't stand on stage w/ an angry face saying to the people that he hates touring.

At least BL have been touring at their own pace and the fact that he feels he can get on w/ the members of BL...without that, I think he might've been more miserable on tour.

I'm sure he does what he can handle. If however, he does tour say for example the US, and people like say, Edelbrock still don't turn up with 20 years of excuses then it makes their gripes somewhat irrelevant.

I'm sure if NO reformed or even BL came to Japan, you would do your best to get to see them.

It's difficult for me to go to gigs now but even if I couldn't go, I'd be grateful because that means someone else here would be able to go. I'm not trying to take sides specifically and I know I'm younger than many on here, but I don't think it's possible to prove that Barney and Hooky haven't had their hearts in whatever they do.

As a musician myself, I will say this in regards to touring.

I love to write songs. I love to record songs. I love being in the studio, making art, music, being creative.

However, touring and putting on shows is stressful, and it can be a real pain in the ass.

Now, the performance itself is another thing. I hate all of the arranging and stress that go with organizing a tour or concert...

But once I am onstage performing, it's heaven.

I think Bernard is similar. He has said, many times, that his favorite thing to do is actually write, record, and create the music. Touring is a required evil, and he doesn't like the stress that comes from it, but once he is onstage, I think its obvious from his performances that he is enjoying himself.

Bernard clearly has his heart into Bad Lieutenant. His songwriting on NCAT is fantastic. Yes, it's not a terrible innovative record, but it is a solid record full of great songs and containing a lot of the memorable qualities that Bernard brought to New Order. His singing on the record is fantastic, and some of his lyrics are inspired (Summer Days, Walk on Silver Water, Poisonous Intent, even parts of Falling Trees). It's clear that his heart is in it.

Just because he doesn't like touring doesn't mean he doesn't love to be creative and to make music.

Seems to me like people have this really personal bias against Barney...do they mentally identify with Hooky? Like, they see themselves in Hooky?

Good lord, you'd think I was cursing the Pope in the Vatican.

Mike, fact of the matter is, NO haven't toured like similar sized UK bands since Technique... which is when the strain of the group really seemed to increase. Hooky has mentioned in many articles about Barney's work ethic being a source of conflict. He's mentioned it for years, its not new news or something I am assuming... Now all of a sudden Barney's work ethic changes once Hooky leaves? hmmmmmmmm.... it ain't rocket science here.

What my gig record has to do with the above is beyond me.

Sorry if I tarnished your edifacies, here use this as a peace offering

Zachery Starkey wrote: As a musician myself, I will say this in regards to touring.

I love to write songs. I love to record songs. I love being in the studio, making art, music, being creative.

However, touring and putting on shows is stressful, and it can be a real pain in the ass.

Now, the performance itself is another thing. I hate all of the arranging and stress that go with organizing a tour or concert...

But once I am onstage performing, it's heaven.

I think Bernard is similar. He has said, many times, that his favorite thing to do is actually write, record, and create the music. Touring is a required evil, and he doesn't like the stress that comes from it, but once he is onstage, I think its obvious from his performances that he is enjoying himself.

Bernard cleary has his heart into Bad Lieutenant. His songwriting on NCAT is fantastic. Yes, it's not a terrible innovative record, but it is a solid record full of great songs and containing a lot of the memorable qualities that Bernard brought to New Order. His singing on the record is fantastic, and some of his lyrics are inspired (Summer Days, Walk on Silver Water, Poisonous Intent, even parts of Falling Trees). It's clear that his heart is in it.

Finally a more sensible answer. To this I can agree.

EdelBrock wrote:

Zachery Starkey wrote: As a musician myself, I will say this in regards to touring.

I love to write songs. I love to record songs. I love being in the studio, making art, music, being creative.

However, touring and putting on shows is stressful, and it can be a real pain in the ass.

Now, the performance itself is another thing. I hate all of the arranging and stress that go with organizing a tour or concert...

But once I am onstage performing, it's heaven.

I think Bernard is similar. He has said, many times, that his favorite thing to do is actually write, record, and create the music. Touring is a required evil, and he doesn't like the stress that comes from it, but once he is onstage, I think its obvious from his performances that he is enjoying himself.

Bernard cleary has his heart into Bad Lieutenant. His songwriting on NCAT is fantastic. Yes, it's not a terrible innovative record, but it is a solid record full of great songs and containing a lot of the memorable qualities that Bernard brought to New Order. His singing on the record is fantastic, and some of his lyrics are inspired (Summer Days, Walk on Silver Water, Poisonous Intent, even parts of Falling Trees). It's clear that his heart is in it.

Finally a more sensible answer. To this I can agree.

Cheers mate!

Mike, fact of the matter is, NO haven't toured like similar sized UK bands since Technique... which is when the strain of the group really seemed to increase. Hooky has mentioned in many articles about Barney's work ethic being a source of conflict. He's mentioned it for years, its not new news or something I am assuming... Now all of a sudden Barney's work ethic changes once Hooky leaves? hmmmmmmmm.... it ain't rocket science here.

Well the Technique tour nearly killed Bernard, no surprise that things changed after this point.

I see you use the word 'conflict' there, just imagine if you will that the 'conflict' involved might have affected Bernard's will to make music. Maybe once he wasn't spending most of the process arguing with Hooky that changed his feeling towards doing it?

A word on touring, I'm sure that BL would play large-ish tours anywhere if the demand was there, however these things are dictated by money and the likelihood of recouping any cost involved. Bernard's will doesn't come into it so much, whether they can afford it does.

he looks like hese enjoying himself from the times ive seen him.. likes been said musics in his dna,, both him and Hooky have both delivered very different musical poles to new order.. enjoy the talent, its here to stay,

existence , well what does it matter.

Of course his heart is in it. More than ever!

Stupid thread...

I'm normally the first to lay into NO's post-'Technique' projex, but this time I feel Mr Neck's comments aren't justified. For a start, the scrapped album wasn't BL, and it was discarded precisely because the guy wanted to give his all to music instead of spreading his talents too thinly. Plus, I'm a fan of the album - each to his own and all that, but for me it's one of the Barnster's most consistently enjoyable efforts in years. The sheer number of tracks says something too - around double those on NO's in their so-called hey day - and okay, quality not quantity, but it's hardly indicative of losing interest. And as for touring, Mr Sumner's been open about his dislike of the whole tour shenanagans unlike tour monster Hooky - yet BL've already notched up a respectable list of dates, far more'n Freebass! I mean how many gigs did Electronic manage? Overall then, silly thread. Which I'm now part of.

Yes, I would say Bernard's heart is in it. He seems so happy in BL interviews. Happier than I've seen him in a long time in my opinion. Like someone mentioned before he didn't do that project with Stuart Price because he wanted to give it 100% and he couldn't because of BL. So yes his heart's in as much as Bernard actually lets himself be.