Is 'Republic' crap?

Can't say I'm that keen on the Get Ready album - haven't listened to it for ages. I much prefer Technique - for me that is the best New Order album. If you have to have one of their albums it would definetely be that one. Mr Disco the highlight for me there.

I think "Technique" is more crap.

To answer the question great 1st side. The b side (vinyl lovers out there such as myself there is still a b side) is the worst New order material apart from Special and Avalnache. So an OK album but my least favourite NO album

Last great NO track is surely Turn.

Joanne Bailey wrote: Technique - for me that is the best New Order album. If you have to have one of their albums it would definetely be that one. Mr Disco the highlight for me there.

Couldn't have said it better myself

The live version of Mr Disco with the samples ,would have been a great single/remix.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: I thought Here To Stay was a bit New Order-by-numbers, it was as if they knew they'd neglected the electronic "style" on Get Ready and were trying to make up for it. HTS while not a fundamentally "bad" track just sounded a bit forced/tired to me. Do agree if the Chemicals had been allowed to stamp more of their style on it, it could have been really good and a proper collaboration.

I didn't rate Crystal much when the first demos surfaced (and said so) but as time went on I grew to love it. The album version is strangely brilliant with the vocal/ambient keyboard intro before descending into guitars, drums and "a small army of Peter Hooks" as a review put it at the time. Didn't think much of the follow up 60 MPH though, now that really is dreadful dirge.

I'd say HTS is about 60% Chems and 40% New Order and all the better for it (and I don't even rate most of what the Chems do). Listen to the compression on Barney's vocal, never heard that before or since, it works briliantly. Ditto all the beeps, squiggles and loops dropped in at just the right places. And on top of that they manage to blend the bass and guitars in seemlessly.

Honestly, I think HTS was a blueprint for what late-era NO could have sounded like had they let go of the reigns a little and allowed some more creative input from new collaborators and producers. Perhaps replacing the keyboard player with another bloody guitarist wasn't the smartest move.

It really isn't a bad album...just dissapointing for the time. When I first heard it I was devestated.

Though if you take it as a commercial pop album, which is what they set out to make, along with the artwork, the videos, the remixes - all together, it's really not that bad.

Stephen Hague ruined Hooky's Bass on this album. Compare his productions to Regret and True Faith live, what a great difference.

GlasVegas wrote:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: I thought Here To Stay was a bit New Order-by-numbers, it was as if they knew they'd neglected the electronic "style" on Get Ready and were trying to make up for it. HTS while not a fundamentally "bad" track just sounded a bit forced/tired to me. Do agree if the Chemicals had been allowed to stamp more of their style on it, it could have been really good and a proper collaboration.

I didn't rate Crystal much when the first demos surfaced (and said so) but as time went on I grew to love it. The album version is strangely brilliant with the vocal/ambient keyboard intro before descending into guitars, drums and "a small army of Peter Hooks" as a review put it at the time. Didn't think much of the follow up 60 MPH though, now that really is dreadful dirge.

I'd say HTS is about 60% Chems and 40% New Order and all the better for it (and I don't even rate most of what the Chems do). Listen to the compression on Barney's vocal, never heard that before or since, it works briliantly. Ditto all the beeps, squiggles and loops dropped in at just the right places. And on top of that they manage to blend the bass and guitars in seemlessly.

Honestly, I think HTS was a blueprint for what late-era NO could have sounded like had they let go of the reigns a little and allowed some more creative input from new collaborators and producers. Perhaps replacing the keyboard player with another bloody guitarist wasn't the smartest move.

I think HTS is up there with the best songs they've done. If a whole album had been released along those lines I think I'd have much preferred it to WFTSC ...

Plain and simple, get all of the singles from Republic, make a good ol' fashion mix of what you like and forget the album. Works for me.

I'm just going to chuck in my usual twopenny worth re: HTS. Don't like it, never have; always thought the guitars don't fit very well on a sub-standard Chems track. Always thought the Chems got a better deal with OOC, even if it is a bit of a rip of Heaven 17 linky.

Always thought HTS would sound terrible live, but never heard it played live or on bootleg.

Crystal is the nuts, however.. love the dirty bass on the long version and the explosion of percussion. Always thought it sounded really fresh, and boding well for the future. Then along came HTS, and well....

I always thought Republic didn't really sound like NO, apart from Republic and EE; far too polished and the sound of a band falling apart. Parts of it sound more like Electronic by numbers to me. And too much filler, which I'd never experienced previously with NO albums.

Republic certainly wasn't crap.

On reflection, it was mighty piece of work considering the Factory blow out, and the dour sound of it reflects that. I think Q called it a "cathedral of sound" or something along those lines.

Regret, Ruined in a Day, Everyone Everywhere, World (the Perfecto remix), Special, Liar are all great tunes (the bitterness in the lyrics - aimed bluntly at AHW - belies the light piano house arrangement).

Like others, the album holds great memories for me. In the past I have written about taking Electronic's debut album on holiday with me to Majorca in 1991 and feeling like the coolest bloke alive listening to it by the pool. In the 1993, I went back to Majorca with Republic and felt exactly the same.

I also recall NO's performance at the Montreux Jazz Festival in that summer, and thinking that they looked like the coolest band on the planet. It was a strong, mature, tight performance that showcased the album with a sprinkling of classics. Temptation was flawless.

In 1993, NO were definitely the coolest thing on the planet, Republic was well received, although my mate - a Hall & Oats fan - always reminds me that Q rated it seven out of ten, whilst in the same edition they gave Daryl Hall's Soul Alone album nine out of ten. Times change.

PS: HTS is shit.

Major Tarantino wrote:

I think HTS is up there with the best songs they've done. If a whole album had been released along those lines I think I'd have much preferred it to WFTSC ...

I agree. I was a bit disapointed with WFTSC at first as HTS had built up some expectation as to what the sound was going to be like.

HTS had the first New Order video that I thought was really boring, though. Even when that Sam Tyler off Doctor Who turned up playing Bernard.

What a great mish mash of parts: Bernard Sumner, Sam Tyler and Harold Saxon/The Master. You'd pay to play parts like that.

noorder wrote: What a great mish mash of parts: Bernard Sumner, Sam Tyler and Harold Saxon/The Master. You'd pay to play parts like that.

Despite the non-event that the HTS vid was, I thought Sam Tyler gave the best bloke-out-of-New-Order performance in 24HPP. He didnt have many lines but it seemed about right.

Post-Technique New Order Albums analysis time:

REPUBLIC: New Order wallow in Blandsville. The Stephen Hague production is very sterile and disappointingly lightweight. To think we waited four years for this underwhelming set. About half of the album is fine, the other half (mostly side 2) pretty mediocre. Great tracks: Regret, World, Everyone Everywhere, Spooky. Okay tracks: Ruined..., Times Change, Avalanche, Special. Rubbish tracks: Liar, Young Offender, Chemical.

GET READY: New Order rock back into view. Eight years has diminished New Order's fanbase as the album only 'stiffed' at number 6 but it might have had summat to do with the fact that it was released the same day as a whole host of other crap albums which did better in the chart (Slipknot, Strokes, Five...). Better production than Republic - gutsier arrangements too. Great tracks: Primitive Notion, Close Range, Crystal, Turn My Way. Okay tracks: 60 Miles An Hour, Vicious Streak, Slow Jam, Run Wild. Rubbish tracks: Rock The Shack, Someone Like You.

WAITING FOR THE SIRENS CALL: Cannot talk about this album without mentioning the fucking godawful shite lazy pathetic [No] sleeve. Absolutely atrocious. Not as good a record as Get Ready either, true to expectations. Looks like New Order sound well and truly tired on half of the material here. Uninspired? Yup. Best tracks (NO 'great' tracks this time): Krafty; WFTSC, Turn. Okay tracks: Who's Joe?, Juggernaut. 'Meh' tracks: Working Overtime, Morning Night and Day. Rubbish tracks: Dracula's Castle, I Told You So, Jizzstream, Guilt Is A Useless Emotion.

Yep - it would appear that Republic marked the gradual slow decline of New Order....

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: I thought Here To Stay was a bit New Order-by-numbers, it was as if they knew they'd neglected the electronic "style" on Get Ready and were trying to make up for it. HTS while not a fundamentally "bad" track just sounded a bit forced/tired to me. Do agree if the Chemicals had been allowed to stamp more of their style on it, it could have been really good and a proper collaboration.

Agree.

The production could have been more expansive (the guitars louder in the choruses for instance). And if it was recorded with better editing / remixes and then released credited jointly to the Chemical Brothers and New Order it could arguably have been a bigger hit than it was.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: I didn't rate Crystal much when the first demos surfaced (and said so) but as time went on I grew to love it. The album version is strangely brilliant with the vocal/ambient keyboard intro before descending into guitars, drums and "a small army of Peter Hooks" as a review put it at the time. Didn't think much of the follow up 60 MPH though, now that really is dreadful dirge.

The LP version begins like a Dark Side Of The Moon track - that wailing backing vocalist Dawn Zee makes it sound so fucking Nurofen..... I'd rather it started with the sound of Hooky's bass and Barney's guitar feeding back melodically for about 45 seconds.....before piling straight into the opening drum beat. Now THAT would have been a better way to kick off the album. :)

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

Yep - it would appear that Republic marked the gradual slow decline of New Order....

I think yer off yer rocker. Agreed on the song selections, but gradual decline? I love that NO didn't stick to one exact sound, they changed it up from Brotherhood to WFTSC, though keeping to a true core. The only thing shaky out of NO is the numerous side projects, many hit and misses there. Never did they sound stale or grasping for past record sales. Republic GR and WFTSC all are great albums.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

GET READY: Rubbish tracks: Rock The Shack.

Could not disagree more. Rock The Shack...ROCKS!

A pity Primal Scream used a guitar solo from one of their existing songs but maybe they were in a rush.

I also recall NO's performance at the Montreux Jazz Festival in that summer, and thinking that they looked like the coolest band on the planet. It was a strong, mature, tight performance that showcased the album with a sprinkling of classics. Temptation was flawless.

The mix of Temptation is anything but flawless though, all you can hear is drum machine and no Steve! It makes it a bit flat really as the dynamics of Steve coming in are lost on this version.

Seems like I've been here before but 20-ish years down the line I still feel the same about 'Republic'. Every time I listen to it I'm hoping to find some genius that's always eluded me but nope, ain't happened. There are two flaws but they're both fundamental. (1) the songs ain't inspired - technically they're not bad but there's none of the creativity and danger and wit that characterised the best work. All the poo at the time - personal/professional distance, trouble at the Hassie, the Factory collapse... It didn't make for a doom-laden album (as advance reports suggested), just a lack-lustre one. In fact they were so fed up they needed Stephen Hague, and he's problem number (2). It ain't just the Hooklessness, it's the prissy production, the warbling girlies, the session musicians, even Steve sounds like a drum machine (it's what he would've wanted). 'Republic' and 'Raise the Pressure' marked a real stall for me, especially after the glories of 'Technique' and 'Electronic'.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Seems like I've been here before but 20-ish years down the line I still feel the same about 'Republic'. Every time I listen to it I'm hoping to find some genius that's always eluded me but nope, ain't happened. There are two flaws but they're both fundamental. (1) the songs ain't inspired - technically they're not bad but there's none of the creativity and danger and wit that characterised the best work. All the poo at the time - personal/professional distance, trouble at the Hassie, the Factory collapse... It didn't make for a doom-laden album (as advance reports suggested), just a lack-lustre one. In fact they were so fed up they needed Stephen Hague, and he's problem number (2). It ain't just the Hooklessness, it's the prissy production, the warbling girlies, the session musicians, even Steve sounds like a drum machine (it's what he would've wanted). 'Republic' and 'Raise the Pressure' marked a real stall for me, especially after the glories of 'Technique' and 'Electronic'.

...and the big sweaty gonads of "One True Passion", surely?

My brain has cancelled the trauma of One True Passion.

El Jarvo wrote:

Burt Burterson wrote: I'm just going to chuck in my usual twopenny worth re: HTS. Don't like it, never have; always thought the guitars don't fit very well on a sub-standard Chems track. Always thought the Chems got a better deal with OOC, even if it is a bit of a rip of Heaven 17 linky.

Always thought HTS would sound terrible live, but never heard it played live or on bootleg.

Crystal is the nuts, however.. love the dirty bass on the long version and the explosion of percussion. Always thought it sounded really fresh, and boding well for the future. Then along came HTS, and well....

I always thought Republic didn't really sound like NO, apart from Republic and EE; far too polished and the sound of a band falling apart. Parts of it sound more like Electronic by numbers to me. And too much filler, which I'd never experienced previously with NO albums.

Are you doing mind-reading now?

Thanks for saving me the effort of typing all that out (apart from the Heaven 17 bit, don't really see it). Couldn't have put it all better myself.

great minds

Burt Burterson wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

Burt Burterson wrote: I'm just going to chuck in my usual twopenny worth re: HTS. Don't like it, never have; always thought the guitars don't fit very well on a sub-standard Chems track. Always thought the Chems got a better deal with OOC, even if it is a bit of a rip of Heaven 17 linky.

Always thought HTS would sound terrible live, but never heard it played live or on bootleg.

Crystal is the nuts, however.. love the dirty bass on the long version and the explosion of percussion. Always thought it sounded really fresh, and boding well for the future. Then along came HTS, and well....

I always thought Republic didn't really sound like NO, apart from Republic and EE; far too polished and the sound of a band falling apart. Parts of it sound more like Electronic by numbers to me. And too much filler, which I'd never experienced previously with NO albums.

Are you doing mind-reading now?

Thanks for saving me the effort of typing all that out (apart from the Heaven 17 bit, don't really see it). Couldn't have put it all better myself.

great minds

more like Simple Minds

In a nutshell... It is a fine album. Typically New Order and a step forward, continuing the notion that every album should sound different. They should have never written/dumped Liar and Chemical however. A 9 track album just like Technique would've done just fine.

:)

The Paradise Man wrote: In a nutshell... It is a fine album. Typically New Order and a step forward, continuing the notion that every album should sound different. They should have never written/dumped Liar and Chemical however. A 9 track album just like Technique would've done just fine.

:)

fuck yeah. holy words for sure.

Giving it another listen through, some of republic seems to have this brilliant horridness to it. I don't know how else to describe Liar, Young Offender is a good concept gone completely haywire...Hookys bass at the end was pretty good though. Ruined In A Day is the one track that I can honestly say "mystifies" me, along with Avalanche, if I remember correctly some interview with Barney on WIM has barney stating he'd have liked to rework RIAD or something similar, due to its cinematic nature it was a favorite of his.

Don't really have a problem with Times Change, sounds like a demo/blueprint of Raise The Pressures second half. When it comes down to World, I honestly love this track and its corresponding original video, it perfectly captured the bands feelings towards another, having them all split up in different locations.

I do however think the Regret video was their last bit of absolute brilliance, theres something magical about it. Especially seeing them all play in that room, its really a video that I can say is worth buying "Item" for.