Worst of...

I'm sure this has been done before, but with all the chat about this bollocks "Frog Only" release, what would you have on your New Order "Worst Of..." compilation? I'll do the artwork for a mock-up and we'll send it to the management - maybe they'll get the picture (and hopefully the joke), pull their fingers out of their arses and give the fans something more appropriate in future.

The title of the album will be "Substandard" and it's planned for release in January '03.

I've just heard that the release date has been pushed back to Autumn '04.

OK; 8 tracks please - I am going to do this and give it to Andy R. by the way so do your best! (worst).

We All Stand; Slow Jam.

sunrise, elegia and state of the nation.

Now this is what I call a thread !!!!!

All Day Long We All Stand Fine Time The Him Chemical Ecstacy State of the Nation Ruined in a Day

Doubts Even Here (though I love the title); We All Stand; Slow Jam; State of the Nation; Chemical; Subculture (but only the 12" remix, since the LP version is chuffing great); Times Change; World In Motion... (no alla violenza mix)

1. World in Motion

2. State of the Nation

3. Shellshock

4. Chemical

5. The Him

6. We All Stand

7. Denial

8. Everyone Everywhere

What??? Everyone seems to dislike We All Stand... I love that song, especially the peel sessions version and the PFD version.

Three miles to go...

P.S. I agree with Spotnick on the frog issue. :square: Get it??

1.) We all stand 2.) Turn The Heater On 3.) Confusion 4.) Shellshock 5.) Fine Time 6.) MTO 7.) Liar 8.) Young Offender

I agree with We All Stand, but I am the only person to left who likes Fine Time and Everyone Everywhere?? :(

If I had even vaguely considered the use of the word "Frog" in the same league as "nigger" then I would NEVER have used it. I have always considered the word as making more fun of its' user than its' target and in fact I WAS most certainly mocking myself with its use and indeed, by starting this thread at all.

The British are great at mocking the world around them whilst struggling to see just how generally pathetic they are and their widespread use of the (only slighty) contemptuous "frog" phrase refers more to certain eating habits than to any genuinely derogatory anti-French feeling. The word nigger is a whole different issue and although I will apologise if I offended anyone I would like to think that despite my reputation that most forum members here would never expect me ever to display racist traits.

This was nothing more than an extension of the completely anti Warner Musique France sentiment flying around over the last few days and I'm sorry it wasn't viewed as such.

Can I have another go please ? Just thought of a few more shockers. Old reply now null and void.

Subculture 12" All Day Long Slow Jam Chemical Times Change We All Stand The Him Every Little Counts

Gawd there's so many to choose from !! Can we make it a double instead ? If so, here's the second CD...

Paradise Way of Life Weirdo Fine Time Ecstacy Turd My Way State of the Nation Anal Dust

If it diffuses the situation somewhat I was once called 'Roast Beef' by a French teacher at school. She was an exchange teacher whilst ours went to her school in France to teach English. Although it was quite shocking (I was surprised) it was very funny, and probably very brave - I would imagine the same taunt wouldn't have gone down too well these days with political correctness going nuts.

In 3:30's defence, although his opening gambit about French people per say, may seem slightly naughty (and possibly detrimental in its content), I cannot believe it was in any way, shape or form even slightly intended with the same malice as racism. It is a joke, pure and simple. As the above 'Roast Beef' gag was.

I did not ever contemplate that my French teacher was being racist, and I cannot imagine 8:32 meant anything racist either. If 16:47 or my old French teacher wanted to vent a racist taunt, it would not be to refer to what they perceived people consumed for their dinners. If I had taken offence to her joke, then I'm afraid I've already left this earth.

I say this to reaffirm that English people do not call other countries as often or with any malice that people from other countries may think ... on the contrary, and also, to say that we receive what we give! (and just for the records, I am a vegetarian).

Peace.

As for the worst songs ... you can lob this lot of old bollocks into the equation:

Let's Go - the version that appeared on 'The Best Of' We All Stand and grow very weary Rock the Filth Slow Jam Movement - just pick any (except DNE)

I would have thought you'd have to class yourselves as an oppressed minority (i.e. Scousers) before you could feel subjected to a display of racism.

Originally posted by Chris Nash Blue Monday (except original 12")DJ 12" Mixes of CrystalDJ 12" Mixes of 60 Miles An Hour

So remove Blue Monday then. It is not mandatory that the worst of NO shall be YOUR worst of NO.

There were no Mixes of 60MPh except some odd FRENCH (again) remix by SupermenLovers. As for Crystal, the mixes are way better (especially the Lee Coombs one) than most of those we've heard during the 94/95 era.

It might be some find FROG offending... I do not, even tho' I'm a froggie myself. I like the idea. I like the fact it makes fun of the french people. As for Warner, I'm sorry guys, but this is non sense. The record companies are there to do what they want, and they know what sells. No cinsideration for you fave tracks or your temptation 12inch from 82. As for the tracklisting it's shite. as for the worst, I'd say... Shellshock. It's terrible.

And Times Change, and Slow Jam especially. and Such A good Thing which is a monaco rip off. And World In Motion.

'The British are great at mocking the world around them whilst struggling to see just how generally pathetic they are'

If you change 'British' to 'English' then you're getting closer, as all us Jocks, Paddys and Taffs will testify to.

Originally posted by bill poster 'The British are great at mocking the world around them whilst struggling to see just how generally pathetic they are'If you change 'British' to 'English' then you're getting closer, as all us Jocks, Paddys and Taffs will testify to.

Mr FourFortyFive is in fact a jock himself but yeah I take your point.

Anyway, back on topic. Could we not just take Regret off Republic and submit the remainder as the "Worst Of"? It would make things far simpler.

Originally posted by snucker sunrise, elegia and state of the nation.

Are you 'crazy....'Sunrise' , 'Elegia' no way they are pure classics! Have you taken some bad acid lately....?

I specifically chose NOT to use "English" as opposed to "British". The fact that most of the English are cunts anyway is neither here nor there.

Was I doing ok up to that bit?

"Say Huntsman, what time is it?"

Originally posted by Easy E Can I have another go please ? Just thought of a few more shockers. Old reply now null and void.Subculture 12"All Day LongSlow JamChemicalTimes ChangeWe All StandThe HimEvery Little CountsGawd there's so many to choose from !! Can we make it a double instead ? If so, here's the second CD...ParadiseWay of LifeWeirdoFine TimeEcstacyTurd My WayState of the NationAnal Dust

Woah there, Easy - do you actually like New Order!!?????!!!???

Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson .Anyway, back on topic. Could we not just take Regret off Republic and submit the remainder as the "Worst Of"? It would make things far simpler.

seconded

Who ? I thought this was a WWF forum ? No ?

What's more interesting about this exercise is the number of people who dislike the same tracks and furthermore, the fact that there are members who genuinely dislike "Ecstacy"...?

There does seem to be a message coming through loud and clear here - there's more duff tracks out there than you first think ! Not quite Bunnymenesque yet, but getting there.

Originally posted by FourFortyFive What's more interesting about this exercise is the number of people who dislike the same tracks and furthermore, the fact that there are members who genuinely dislike "Ecstacy"...?

I guess there's nowt so queer as folk. It seems only yesterday that people were touting "Ecstasy" as avante-garde proto-acid house. Ahead of their fookin' time, as ever.

There ARE plenty of duffers, though - a good half of "Republic", and "Shellshock" is just a pile of tripe. And somewhat sacreligously (sp.?), I've always thought the original "Confusion" was plain embarrassing.......

Originally posted by FourFortyFive I specifically chose NOT to use "English" as opposed to "British". The fact that most of the English are cunts anyway is neither here nor there.Was I doing ok up to that bit?"Say Huntsman, what time is it?"

...but back on topic, I have relatively few NO songs I dislike, what with me being a fan and all....but I could do without: Denial Original version of Confusion (sorry, I just find it cringeworthy) State of the Nation Shellshock Subculture 12" ...& a great deal of Republic CTB

Originally posted by martin fradley > Originally posted by FourFortyFive> What's more interesting about this exercise is the number of people who dislike the same tracks and furthermore, the fact that there are members who genuinely dislike "Ecstacy"...?

I guess there's nowt so queer as folk. It seems only yesterday that people were touting "Ecstasy" as avante-garde proto-acid house. Ahead of their fookin' time, as ever.

There ARE plenty of duffers, though - a good half of "Republic", and "Shellshock" is just a pile of tripe. And somewhat sacreligously (sp.?), I've always thought the original "Confusion" was plain embarrassing.......

I've always liked Shellshock ! It was great live at Warrington Spectrum in 86 I remember.

Ecstasy is a quality tune and should be on the Best of...as they say ahead of its time.

As for the worst:

We All Stand Sputnik Guilty Partner Spooky (the album version) Sabotage Player in the League 60 MPH Remixes Such a Good Thing

Beat that !

Originally posted by Easy E > Originally posted by martin fradley> > > > Originally posted by FourFortyFive> > What's more interesting about this exercise is the number of people who dislike the same tracks and furthermore, the fact that there are members who genuinely dislike "Ecstacy"...?>

I guess there's nowt so queer as folk. It seems only yesterday that people were touting "Ecstasy" as avante-garde proto-acid house. Ahead of their fookin' time, as ever.

There ARE plenty of duffers, though - a good half of "Republic", and "Shellshock" is just a pile of tripe. And somewhat sacreligously (sp.?), I've always thought the original "Confusion" was plain embarrassing.......

I've always liked Shellshock ! It was great live at Warrington Spectrum in 86 I remember.

I agree about Shellshock.

Originally posted by Mr Disco Ecstasy is a quality tune and should be on the Best of...as they say ahead of its time.As for the worst:We All StandSputnikGuilty PartnerSpooky (the album version)SabotagePlayer in the League60 MPH RemixesSuch a Good ThingBeat that !

Fookinell !! Guilty Partner would be in my TOP 10, dunno about crap 8 !! Also really like Sabotage and Player in the League. Agree with the rest though.

Al' J. wrote:

"Bearing in mind, I use 'c*nt' as a term of endearment, I'll take that as a compliment, Jonathan..."

And therein lies the point.

Al Jarvis gets the joke (I think) without any prompting or long drawn out explanation.

Thank you!

I totally agree about the recent posts regarding "Ecstacy" btw - do any of the older UK posters remember when the BBC used that track as their promo background music? i.e. "...coming up later on BBC1..."

Originally posted by Al Jarvis

I dunno, the Scots have a go at the French, and somehow the English get the blame?!

Tsk!

I don't think my scottish mate Ally from the monaco site has a go at me :D

There are very strong links between the Scots & the French - often referred to as the "Auld alliance".

Originally posted by Kez-bah I agree with We All Stand, but I am the only person to left who likes Fine Time and Everyone Everywhere?? :(

No, I love the charmingly daft Fine Time (especially the electronic sheep), and rather like Everyone Everywhere too.

Originally posted by Graeme > Originally posted by Kez-bah> I agree with We All Stand, but I am the only person to left who likes Fine Time and Everyone Everywhere?? :(

No, I love the charmingly daft Fine Time (especially the electronic sheep), and rather like Everyone Everywhere too.

I'm not saying either of them are classics, but yeah, they both have their own charm. I think Fine Time is a good album intro and I too like the daftness of it. Everyone Everywhere is nothing particularly innovative but I think it's got a lovely swoony quality.

Originally posted by bill poster 'The British are great at mocking the world around them whilst struggling to see just how generally pathetic they are'If you change 'British' to 'English' then you're getting closer, as all us Jocks, Paddys and Taffs will testify to.

Jocks, paddies and taffs are all jealous fockers.....shown by there constant support of other countries when playing ENGLAND' and yet there all happy to speak our language....

Slow Jam Rock The Shack Times Change Chemical Such a Good Thing Sub Culture 12" Remix We All Stand (PC&L ) --take your pick from movement (except DNE)

Originally posted by Graeme > Originally posted by Kez-bah> I agree with We All Stand, but I am the only person to left who likes Fine Time and Everyone Everywhere?? :(

No, I love the charmingly daft Fine Time (especially the electronic sheep), and rather like Everyone Everywhere too.

I seem to be one of the most easily pleased New Order fans here, as I like just about every track so far mentioned. (How can one dislike a song with the lyric "I've met a lot of cool chicks, but I've never met a girl with all her own teeth"?)

Though admitedly I can't actually remember what much of Movement actually sounds like so maybe I've forgotten that I dislike some of it.

But We All Stand, that one I agree with. And it seems so does everyone else. Is that the one that _nobody_ likes? (Should I make an analogy to the French/English/Scots/Quebecois..delete as appropriate...no, best not)

Check yer post tomorrow A.M.!!! (ya' cunt!)

Just eight tracks isn't really enough to do the worst of New Order justice - as witnessed here already, there's a shocking plethora of skeletons in the closet so ta speak...

Maybe I could start by listing some of the tracks with pointless backing vocals first, then tag all the others after it..

1 - Shame / State Of The Nation 2 - Liar 3 - Someone Like You 4 - Subculture 12" single mix 5 - Shellshock 6 - Confusion 7 - Such A Good thing 8 - Vicious Streak 9 - Hurt 10 - Turn The Heater On 11 - Run Wild 12 - 1963 - lionrock / joe t vanelli mixes 13 - 60 MPH - supermen lovers mixes 14 - Blue Monday - any post 1988 mixes 15 - Rock The Shack 16 - Times Change 17 - Ah, fook it - include the whole of "The Rest Of New Order" compilation and count it as one song fer frig's sakes...

Lest it be forgotten, I certainly won't be savin' my hard-earned cash for any more pointless London Records-financed abominations with NO's name on them...I've an extra mouth ta feed noo as it is - and believe me, that by comparison now gives me more joy an' pleasure an' fulfillment than the prospect of any further shoddy rehashes, reissues, remixes and squandered opportunities could ever hope to..... No thanks.....

VICIOUS STREAK is one of the finest songs neworder have ever written. Electronic beauty only surpassed by the intro to Your Silent Face. Get it straight. Vicious Streak is a Classic. Miles and Miles better than that horrible final track.....you know the...Jesus Comes & Jesus Goes ....Run Wild (when you hear this song, far, far away)....this song sounds like it was rejected by Primal Scream for their awful GiveUpbut Don't Give Out album. Gut wrenching SAP.

Also, I happen to think Turn The Heater On captures NewOrder in a very special, experimental moment...quite dubby and goes perfectly sandwiched between Everything's Gone Green and Mesh.

VICIOUS STREAK = CLASSIC NEWORDER

all shouting intentional

Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid VICIOUS STREAK is one of the finest songs neworder have ever written. Electronic beauty only surpassed by the intro to Your Silent Face. Get it straight. Vicious Streak is a Classic. Miles and Miles better than that horrible final track.....you know the...Jesus Comes & Jesus Goes ....Run Wild (when you hear this song, far, far away)....this song sounds like it was rejected by Primal Scream for their awful GiveUpbut Don't Give Out album. Gut wrenching SAP.Also, I happen to think Turn The Heater On captures NewOrder in a very special, experimental moment...quite dubby and goes perfectly sandwiched between Everything's Gone Green and Mesh.VICIOUS STREAK = CLASSIC NEWORDERall shouting intentional

Yes, indeed, Vicious Streak is very good.

Hubert, how lonk have you been a NO fan? You think Hurt is a skeleton? Did you hear the song last year for the first time, or did you hear it in 1981? Hurt is one of the best NO songs ever. Also, Turn The Heater On, Shellshock and Confusion are great songs. I am totally with you on Rock The Shack though - that is the WORST NO song ever - I don't care who mixes it. Take crud and mix it for a year and you still have crud when you are done.

In my opinion, these are the bad ones: Rock The Shack Angel Dust Spooky (Magimix) Doubts Even Here State Of The Nation

I think i really am the only one who likes We all stand... But i don't care :square:

Life goes on and on...

Originally posted by Spotnick HurtMurderMeshCries & Whispers586

Wow! Is this REALLY your worst of selection? I thought you liked New Order ;). Those 5 tracks are amongst my fave ones!

Most of movement beside Dreams Never End, I can't tell, I didn't listen much to it.I could have included Everything's Gone Green & Blue Monday to that list, I've never been a fan to those songs.

Movement: Doubts Even Here is great, much better than Dreams Never End, IMHO. I also love EGG, which is the first sign of the transformation of JD into NO, and which set the bases of what would be Temptation. As for Blue Monday, I think the problem with that track is that we all got an overdose of it. I just can't hear it anymore, but yet I couldn't imagine a best of album not including the original version of it.

Im with you Chris, I love Movement and I love Shellshock ...

The Rest of New Order, Ive only just purchased this, never having liked best ofs or greatest hits etc, this album really sucks big time. I HATE it.

Like the idea. Give it to them.

My selection:

Blue Monday (12 inch can't be fucking arsed mix) Liar (complete drivelling bollocks mix) Temptation ( Live at the back whilst I've fallen asleep mix) Perfect Kiss (racist Frog belching overdub mix) StateofThe Nation(make sure you get your head in front of both barrels mix)

And as bonuses: Completely new revamped in your face for the kids of today Salvation entire re issues.

I AM EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED WITH THEM.

WHAT AN INSULT. THEY MUST THINK WE ARE ARSEHOLES.

Originally posted by Jim Reilly Like the idea. Give it to them.My selection:Blue Monday (12 inch can't be fucking arsed mix)Liar (complete drivelling bollocks mix)Temptation ( Live at the back whilst I've fallen asleep mix)Perfect Kiss (racist Frog belching overdub mix)StateofThe Nation(make sure you get your head in front of both barrels mix)And as bonuses:Completely new revamped in your face for the kids of today Salvation entire re issues.CHILL OUT JIM...it is too nice a day to be calling and cussing...get it?:D:D:DI AM EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED WITH THEM.WHAT AN INSULT. THEY MUST THINK WE ARE ARSEHOLES.

Better NOW JIM?

Yep, I feel a lot better now!

Originally posted by Jim Reilly Yep, I feel a lot better now!

SHUT UP YOU GIRL! Brian Potter at the Planet Rocket having a bad HAIR day too:p

Originally posted by Rocket Mick > Originally posted by Jim Reilly> Yep, I feel a lot better now!

SHUT UP YOU GIRL! Brian Potter at the Planet Rocket having a bad HAIR day too:p

SHUT IT KOJAK!

The Roy Keanian Rhapsody To the tune of Bohemian Rhapsody

Oh dear, I just kicked a man Theres a screw loose in my head, I went and tried to break his leg, Bugger, the seasons just begun, But now, I've gone and thrown it all away, The Nevilles are Poo -ooh -ooh - ooh, They just make me want to sigh, We'd be better off with Hattie Jakes or Kenneth Williams, From Carry on, Camping, The whole teams just in tatters. Its too late, my crime is done, Tried to mangle Alfies spine, Now he's aching all the time, Goodbye Mick McCarthy, I've got to go, Got to leave the squad behind, Im in a mood. Veron, is poo, yes its true, He doesn't seem to try, I sometimes wish he'd never been bought at all. I see a little packaged sandwich filled with prawns, Laurent Blanc, Laurent Blanc, Is he on a bleedin go slow ? Wes Brown and Phillip Neville, those stupid dolts can't frighten a flea, WHERE IS RIO ?, where is rio?, WHERE IS RIO?, where is rio?, Laurents too slow, (slow, slow, slow) I'm just a poor boy and nobody loves me * He's just a headcase who walked out on his country, Spare us the whines of his gaffer, if you please. Here it comes, Open goal, Diego Forlan, He must score. HE WILL NOT. ** NO, He will never score. Let him score, HE WILL NOT, He will never score. Let him score, HE WILL NOT, He will never score. Let him score, Don't think he'll ever score, Don't think he'll get a single goal, (goal, goal, goal) Oh where is Rio? where is Rio ? What do you mean he's stubbed his toe ? Beelzebub take the Nevilles from my side, Oh Please ? Oh Please, Oh Pleeeeeeeaaaase? So you think I abuse refs and spit in their eyes, Do you think that I like it that I am despised ? Or maybe, Even though I seem crazy, I'm just a stupid lout, just a stupid lout, out of beer. All the guys I've clattered, even poor Alfie, My reputations shattered, I just feel the need to batter, don't you see ? Anyway now where did Mick go ?

Originally posted by Dufford Charleywood > Originally posted by bill poster> 'The British are great at mocking the world around them whilst struggling to see just how generally pathetic they are'> > If you change 'British' to 'English' then you're getting closer, as all us Jocks, Paddys and Taffs will testify to.

Jocks, paddies and taffs are all jealous fockers.....shown by there constant support of other countries when playing ENGLAND' and yet there all happy to speak our language....

Jealous of what?!! Being the second most hated nationality after the yanks?

I like Everyone Everywhere too.

I think trying to get consensus on 8 tracks is going to be pretty tricky, especially if we include remixes, there being so many of them. Wouldn't it be better to go for the definitive songs - you could otherwise end up with a fair proportion of the songs being remixes of what was originally a good song (of course, I can't think of an example, but there you go).

My list would definitely include Confusion and Shellshock, and reasonable chunks of Republic and Get Ready (Rock The Shack of course)

And as for Turn The Heater On - love it!!

i dunno about worst no songs, what about the worst no fans.

i think your all listed here. some the choices you've picked are terrible. there is a couple of weak tracks in there somewhere but nothing is as bad as you make out.

i thinks you are all losing it and maybe you should get out more. could be a case of severe depression setting in amongst you all...

We used to have a kid at school called Carruthers. His nickname was Crud. QED.

Al, I was going to quote the Sub-Culture 12" as the exception that proved the rule, but then realised I'd painted myself into a corner on the "no remixes" thing!!!!

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson> > > Jealous of what?!! Being the second most hated nationality after the yanks?

Er, bit harsh, G. Heavy weekend, was it?

Steve, agree with the 'definitive versions' of tracks as a rule of thumb, but that Subculture 12" really does need taking to task, especially after the beauty of the original. And, in fairness, it was a total re-recording by the band themselves, as opposed to some naff remix done by A.N.Other.

Ma tounge was firmly in ma cheek Jarvo, as always!

Mr Shaun "2 posts" Carruthers - Al put it pretty straight there I think - A fan is a fan is a fan - unless of course it's me that is.

When you've come up with something of interest to add to this most comic debate then feel free to join in. Until then...

okey dokey then, i take it back.

"sometimes i get it wrong, but i'm not the only one"

SHUG - call me on the mobile when you read this.

07968 121 592.

I'll read this thread later, when i've more time on my hands.

Cant honestly say particular tracks spring to mind as being an ardent fan i tend to convienantly gloss over anything resembling substandardness ;)

I dont care much for Chemical or FineTime however...

Originally posted by Biljo Boggins The Rest of New Order, Ive only just purchased this, never having liked best ofs or greatest hits etc, this album really sucks big time. I HATE it.

I totally agree - The Rest Of New Order totally BLOWS, I listened to it once and nearly threw it out my window. I would have been offended if I were in New Order - it's like the people changing the songs didn't want people to know who sung it. I too have never been a big remix person, this album explanes my dislike of remixes better than words ever could.

1- Fine time 2- MTO 3- Sub-Culture 4- State/Shame 5- Run Wild 6- Vicious circle 7- WIM 8- Half of Republic

I don't understand why people are so against 'Such a good thing'. Each to their own I suppose. The most articulate criticism I have heard of this song is that it ripped off Monaco (which is about the same as saying The Beatles ripped off Wings) Also, is it entirely fair to slag off 'Turn the Heater On'? It is a cover after all.. CTB

o/t I know, but is pied noir a term of endearment?

the only new order track that i have ever thought of as actually sucking would be world in motion. it really is dreadful.

Originally posted by Commuter the only new order track that i have ever thought of as actually sucking would be world in motion. it really is dreadful.

Do they allow Scots in Canada ? ;) It's a festival singalong, and let's face it, the only chance we've all had of seeing the Order this summer has been at fezzies !

Why is everybody so against World in Motion? It was a good song for the purpose it served.

Now to me, the fruitiest song I've heard so far is Subculture-- :\puke:

BTW, you guys have some wacked out smilies for these forums.

Hello gentlemen nice to meet you. I've been lurking around for the last couple days and when I bumped into this thread I just HAD to register.

You might as well get your chains, pitch forks and your guns because I am going to go the record and officially state that I'm probably the only one here that loves Republic and think it's NO's best album. I sincerely don't understand why so many people hate it. Times Change, Everyone Everywhere, Spooky, Ruined in a Day and World are some of NO's best tracks IMO. You're probably thinking "Well, you probably just got into them and were introduced to their music through Republic"...not true. I've been listening to them since Substance first came out and Touched By the Hand of God and True Faith were the first two songs I were exposed to and fell in love with the band since then.

I would really like to hear your opinions explaining what's so terrible about Republic. Is it the "dancy" nature of the album? Is it so hard to warm up to NO's dance/soul side and just allow it to grow on you? I mean. If you think about it, quite a few of the tracks on Technique are just as Dancy/poppish as the ones on Republic yet I don't hear anyone complain about it for that album, which is also brilliant. So please if you could give me some good reasons why you cringe at songs like Liar, Times Change, etc.

As for the worst of NO, (puts on flame retartend suit) just take Crystal and 60mph off Get Ready and you have my list...seriously.

Funny you should said that ISAMU cos I have wondered myself the same. I am not a great fan of The Republican but I do not HATE it. It's got in it two jewels, namely Regret and Special and a handful of very good songs as well.

Possible reasons for hating it:

1- The conspicuous absence of Hooky's bass.

2- The even more conspicuous presence of Steven Hague. The whole album is overproduced and veering too much towards a distinct Petshopboyish sound.

3- The fact that it was perceived as a Barney's solo effort with The Other Three relegated to Sideshow Bob, second banana status.

4- The fact that it was New Order's first outing with London Records and as such they were perceived as having sold their indepent souls.

5- It came after Substance/True Faith/1963/TBTHOG/Technique/. New Order had painted themselves into a corner by creating such impossibly high standards.

6- With the massive success of Regret and after The Rèpublican were bleed dry of singles by London Records it was perceived by true-blue-I-was-partying-with-Ian-Curtis more-than-once fans as a soft port of entry for new-wasnot-that-Ian-Curtis-the-bloke-who-played-the-flute-in-Jethro-Tull fans. They were mightily unimpressed.

Having said that Isamu, you'll be happy to know that there is a whole school of thought that agrees with you in considering Republic the best New Order album. I have at least two friends who think so.

Now, why is ever more people not bothering to register, I wonder?

Hi BUDVAR,trust you have had a good rest.:D I actually love REPUBLIC but only have two copies of this.I always thought that this album ,set against what was being played at that time STOOD out.Of course they had set high standards before this,but then again JOY DIVISION had set even HIGHER standards.So i am with you on this one BUDVAR.Being a big PET SHOP BOY'S fan i am sure that this album was more in tune with a lot of the other stuff i listened to.Music is for the INDIVIDUAL and it is good to have different reactions to the same songs.LOW LIFE is probably still my favouite but was out at a GREAT time in my life which can affect the way an album is remembered. Have a nice day.... SHABBA Rocket Mick :D

Hi Mick,

How are you pal?, I sent you an email when I came back from my holidays but you've obviously not read it.

Republic was, BTW the last record I bought on vinyl and I remember the attendant looking at me like if I were very, very strange.

Shabba-Shabba-Hey

Why oh why do you insist on including remixes on this list? They're NOT made by the Order, you must know that! And... if you're NO fans, why do you dislike so many songs? There's really only ONE lousy tune, "We all stand". THAT ONE IS TRULLY ATROCIOUS!

Originally posted by JORGE TEIXEIRA Why oh why do you insist on including remixes on this list?They're NOT made by the Order, you must know that!And... if you're NO fans, why do you dislike so many songs?There's really only ONE lousy tune, "We all stand".THAT ONE IS TRULLY ATROCIOUS!

Well Jorge, these remixes are sold as being from New Order so even if they are done by other people they are endorsed by the band. (Even if we strongly suspect most of the time they have not even heard them ).

Originally posted by Budvar Huber Hi Mick,

How are you pal?, I sent you an email when I came back from my holidays but you've obviously not read it.

Republic was, BTW the last record I bought on vinyl and I remember the attendant looking at me like if I were very, very strange.

Shabba-Shabba-Hey

Sorry i lost a lot of e-mails in a purge of old ones so may have missed it there.I must admit that i DO not own this on VINYL.Along with the STANDARD SUBSTANCE these seem to be the only vinyl NEW ORDER...tell a lie,also not got GET READY on vinyl too,missing from the VINYL ORDER.At the time i chased the LIMITED RUN and was chuffed with that and somehow overlooked the LP.Keep on posting good HUBER Rocket Mick

Originally posted by Budvar Huber

Originally posted by JORGE TEIXEIRA Why oh why do you insist on including remixes on this list? They're NOT made by the Order, you must know that! And... if you're NO fans, why do you dislike so many songs? There's really only ONE lousy tune, "We all stand". THAT ONE IS TRULLY ATROCIOUS!

Well Jorge, these remixes are sold as being from New Order so even if they are done by other people they are endorsed by the band. (Even if we strongly suspect most of the time they have not even heard them ).

Yes my good friend, but the point is this: remixes being the work of other people, how can you say, for instance, that Subculture's 12" mix is a bad NO song? It is, indeed, the product of a very sick, twisted, mind, but it's John Cuntrobie's fault, not NO's! Yes, they endorsed it by allowing it's release, but that's an error of judgement (or plain bad taste...) not bad songwriting!

That's a fair point Jorge. You are right.

I remember getting home with THAT 12" and feeling an overwhelming sense that I had been given the wrong record.

hey jonathan,

what's the final tracklisting/artwork look like?

It's starting to look like a boxed set at the moment! Didn't reckon on you all showing so much interest in the thread to be honest.

I'll sort the artwork out tomorrow and leave the final tracklist to YOU as you asked and I'll go with whatever you finally decide based on what the forum members listed as their worst-ofs.

Chosen Time Denial Ecstasy ICB Liar Love Juice Ode to Joy Rocking Carol Skullcrusher Sputnik The Him Too Late Turn the Heater On Vicious Streak Vietnam

I'm gonna have another go at this. Times Change, as they say.

Benny's bottom 8 as at 26/06/03

Times Change Every Little Counts Way of Life Chemical Turn My Way Slow Jam Run Wild Fine Time

The top 8 make different and more aurally pleasing reading: Perfect Kiss Procession Sooner Than You Think Guilty Partner Crystal Let's Go (instrumental) Lonesome Tonight Thieves Like Us

Every little counts

Chosen time

This time of night

1. Fine time
2. Run wild
3. Ecstacy
4. Club mix of Crystal
5. Shame of the nation (the original isn't bad)
6. The Beach
7. Blue Monday - 95
8. Run

Surely this was done before, and was called republic? :D

They bunged regret on it as well though.

I agree with much of what has been listed, with the exception of "Shellshock", which really isn't all that bad, and especially "All Day Long"... I love that one - put it on a mix tape (CD) that I made for someone recently. I say take Republic and chop off Regret, and then you've got a quick and easy "Worst of" album :)

Is it me or most of you wackos way off track? There are only a handful of bad tracks such as:

1. Player in the League (real crap; sounds like 3rd rate DM
2. Chemical (argh)
3. Shellshock (just didn't hold up over the years)
4. Truth ( ugg..terribly grating..)
5. MTO (not much of anything really)
6. Avalanche (boooring...)
7. Subculture (12" version only...crappy arrangement)

to everyone who says that Fine Time, Ecstasy, State of the Nation and We All Stand are bad songs.... :moon:

1. Ruined In A Day (Sly & Robie Remix).. or whatever..
2. 60 Miles An Hour (Supermen Lovers Remix)
3. Crystal (Steven K Intro Mix).. again, or whatever...
4. Every Little Counts <-- would work best if there were an accapella version
5. Liar
6. Ode To Joy
7. Fine Time
8. Rocking Carol

Come on. Leave State Of The Nation off there. It really isn't as bad as Liar or the Christmas Flexi stuf, come on. And shame on anyone who put Doubts Even Here. Shame.

Originally posted by Razed In A New Division Of Agony 1. Ruined In A Day (Sly & Robie Remix).. or whatever..2. 60 Miles An Hour (Supermen Lovers Remix)3. Crystal (Steven K Intro Mix).. again, or whatever...4. Every Little Counts <-- would work best if there were an accapella version5. Liar6. Ode To Joy7. Fine Time8. Rocking CarolCome on. Leave State Of The Nation off there. It really isn't as bad as Liar or the Christmas Flexi stuf, come on. And shame on anyone who put Doubts Even Here. Shame.

I agree with Fine Time. And I do like State of the Nation, but its remix, Shame of the Nation, has to be the worst remix of a song since the Beach for Blue Monday.

Originally posted by Chuckles Is it me or most of you wackos way off track? There are only a handful of bad tracks such as:1. Player in the League (real crap; sounds like 3rd rate DM2. Chemical (argh)3. Shellshock (just didn't hold up over the years)4. Truth ( ugg..terribly grating..)5. MTO (not much of anything really)6. Avalanche (boooring...)7. Subculture (12" version only...crappy arrangement)to everyone who says that Fine Time, Ecstasy, State of the Nation and We All Stand are bad songs.... :moon:

It's you.

Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by Chuckles> Is it me or most of you wackos way off track? There are only a handful of bad tracks such as:> > 1. Player in the League (real crap; sounds like 3rd rate DM> 2. Chemical (argh)> 3. Shellshock (just didn't hold up over the years)> 4. Truth ( ugg..terribly grating..)> 5. MTO (not much of anything really)> 6. Avalanche (boooring...)> 7. Subculture (12" version only...crappy arrangement)> > > to everyone who says that Fine Time, Ecstasy, State of the Nation and We All Stand are bad songs.... :moon:

It's you.

I find the words "bad songs" and "new order" sit very uncomfortably within the same sentence....

I agree with the above. I think this is an amusing idea that's got completely out of order. If I were New Order or their management I'd be pretty offended at some of the stuff that's been said here. Obviously it's because we love them that we hate the 'substandard' stuff so much, but this stuff spans a couple of decades, and the naff stuff has been as essential to NOs development as the good stuff. Anyway, it's all very subjective; I personally think 60 mph is dire; but NO saw it as a single; you all wanted to track down the 17 minute version of Elegia - it should have been kept in the box! A lot of this stuff is obviously experimental :'Wizzy Noise' anybody? No thanks. I personally love all the remixes of Crystal (except 'Orgy' or whatever it's called), and again, personally, I think the remixes of Blue Monday have breathed new life into the song. But, equally, to my mind there are some remix horrors; the above mentioned Superman lovers remix of 60 mph takes it from bad worse, the Junior Vasquez remix of Regret - Yeuch! But NO have always experimented, and let people experiment with their material; even to the extent of letting all of us have a go at remixing Crystal; and there were some great mixes. I say let bygones be bygones, one man's meat is another man's...etc.. (And how the hell can you include the 'Rocking Carol' thing which was a giveaway present?)

apart from regret-the whole republic album shellshock confusion

The worst of has already been created. It was called (the rest of) and took perfectly good songs and turned them into demonic, crappy mixes that should have never been made. NO really should've looked at the mixes prior to the release of this.. er... "album".

Originally posted by harry dillon apart from regret-the whole republic albumshellshockconfusion

Shellshock? Confusion? is wrong with your ears? And, Republic may not be the best overall album, but "World" and EE are pretty decent tunes.

Sabotage Mr. Disco Everyone Everywhere Theme From "Best and Marsh" The 2nd half of Movement