Who's NOT going Bruss/Paris out of principle ?

I am considering Paris!

Would be a great excuse to get away again, and meet up with some more NOOLers... and... my FIRST proper Ordah gig!

I'm not going because I've been to Paris only a year and a half ago and that's not long enough. How's THAT for principle.

Also, I'm already going to New York in a few weeks, so I'll be skint next month.

And I'm not counting these as proper NO gigs just so I can still say I went to the "very last gig ever!" ;)

Seriously, though, wish I could. You guys have fun!

I'm not going. No time, no money and the worst - no Hooky.

At last it's for charity - so I will not talk too bad about it. ;)

F...cing hell, didnt want to come across a a right twat but looks like i did ! its a great idea for a benefit show (i know Shamberg is due at the Lowry shows)all i mean is i wish they called it Bad Loot plus/with Gillain etc.. as opposed to New Order which to me have split. Gillian left remember to look after poorly bern. feel its a tad insensitive to that Jake bloke as well. As for seeing Hooky - its just fun/karaokie & Bad Loot play their own stuff. Im neither pompous or overtly principled to be honest, i would rather go again with em all there. Plus its 10 yrs ago nigh to the day i saw em play Paris on the Get Ready tour & i loved it so i reckon its the pleasant memories that are 'tainting' my judgement. However like any sort of drug - love/booze/coffee/the other..its hard letting go as you search for excuses to try to justify.

Anyway didnt want to come across as a prick because as those who replied and know me... i value yr friendship

Micro Mike won't go either. It's indoors. He goes only to open air events out of principle.

Wel I'm going on the principle that it's New Order and it's gonna be the New Order songs ! (NO JD please !!)

Paris , Sounds goood.

the sound of Music.

Johnny Giles wrote: You haven't come over as a twat. It's all just opinions innit?

Got disagree on the bad Loot plus Gillian view though.....how can it be Bad Loot without Jake? It can't. He's a current member of Bad Loot, hasn't quit and they're still a going concern. Now hooky is nothing to do with new order anymore, he quit in 2006. We don't even know if Gillian is officially back in NO, or just playing these gigs. But phil, steve and bernard are defo NO - they didn't quit see - so if they want to play as NO they can, because they are.

It's 80% New order in my eyes, and up from the 75% in their previous incarnation. A good argument in a court of law. Perhaps.

Johnny Giles wrote: You haven't come over as a twat. It's all just opinions innit?

Got disagree on the bad Loot plus Gillian view though.....how can it be Bad Loot without Jake? It can't. He's a current member of Bad Loot, hasn't quit and they're still a going concern. Now hooky is nothing to do with new order anymore, he quit in 2006. We don't even know if Gillian is officially back in NO, or just playing these gigs. But phil, steve and bernard are defo NO - they didn't quit see - so if they want to play as NO they can, because they are.

I'm also hearing comments online (not really here though) about people saying that the situation is 'wrong', presumably without Peter Hook. Yes, to many people, it's not really New Order without every one of them. I'm not saying charity excuses things, but if the rest of them had heard that Michael Shamberg was very ill and needed medical treatment that is expensive, and they thought that it would be a good idea to hold charity gigs to raise money to help him (especially when you think that he contributed to their music videos and career), then I don't see anything wrong with that, even if Hooky is not in the lineup.

So what were New Order supposed to do, then? Refuse to get together to hold charity gigs to help Shamberg's medical treatment just because they knew Hooky wasn't going to be involved? Or, like they apparently chose to do, got as many of the original members they could to do a charity gig to raise money for the medical treatment that Shamberg needs. Given how Hooky is busy with JD tours and such, as well as not being on speaking terms with Bernard, the possibility of Hooky participating this autumn would've been low anyway. People who are saying 'it's wrong' and completely condemning the entire situation are missing the point.

leather_girl wrote: I'm also hearing comments online (not really here though) about people saying that the situation is 'wrong', presumably without Peter Hook.

Totally agree with your entire post, LG.

Without getting into moral percentages to me Hooky is more than that guy who plays the bass. Like the other members (not Phil, sorry) without his character, personality, sound etc its not quite the same. Although I couldnt disagree with the reasons I was disappointed when Gillian left (the band didnt look quite right without her). A New Order without Hooky is like a New Order without Bernard or Stephen. Diluted. New Order-Lite.

I hope they do these gigs then go back into hibernation/legend.

I understand some of the criticisms about how they are using the name New Order. Some might not feel that it is right. But if there are some people saying the entire situation is wrong; I don't agree with that.

Haha. Its so dull in hull just have to go. In doors, abroard, small venues, what more can you want. Oh two nights on North Sea Ferries and some cheap plonk.

I've not read this thread, but I just want to say that I'll be there and I'm looking forward to it and I'm not overly bothered how Hooky or anyone else feels about it.

I'll be sorry if he's not there, and I'll be sorry if Ramboorleroy isn't there too as I really like him. I'll be glad to see all the old faces. I probably won't bother with any of the dates on the inevitable NewOrderNoHooky reunion tour. But I will buy the album.

There'll be none of that going on, either

James Crosland wrote: Haha. Its so dull in hull just have to go. In doors, abroard, small venues, what more can you want. Oh two nights on North Sea Ferries and some cheap plonk.

Apparently all travel options are expensive so I'm thinking of getting the ferry from Hull as well. Might see you on it

What a twat you are ...

this is not some "Manc" dying who needs a benefit this is a true artist who is from the USA who has been involved in NO's career for years you knob head.

Gillian was and always be NEW ORDER so just go shoot yourself in the head you prat - you and hooky deserve each other !

and for your information they can use the name !

Hooky has been living off the JD and NO name for a long time, I suspect that none of the money earned on his "projects" or merchandising ventures have touched the coffers of any member of NO or JD - and this includes Ian's wife, child and ex manager.

Don't feel sorry for that twat

living off the dead - I dont know how you can sleep at night in your footballer's mansion in alderley edge

Shame on you Hooky !

New Order finished in 87 really

JULIETTE wrote: New Order finished in 87 really

But started for me in 87. Id never heard of them before True Faith.

And so everyones got their own take on New Order. Nothing wrong with that.

Everyone is replaceable. Why shouldn't I go?

"Don't believe everything you read in the papers"-Reading '93

In seriousness it's for a great cause, and seeing as I can't travel to watch Bernard dad dance, or Phil rock some more pointed boots, I'll just edit the DVD of Finsbury park and put Chapmans face over Hooky, it'll be a similar experience. Oh and well I suppose I could paste in images of Gillian from time to time.

O.K., O.K....

Looks like I'm coming to Bruxelles... I saw Hooky live before - so now for the rest and then I've got the band complete .

TOOTS wrote: What a twat you are ...

this is not some "Manc" dying who needs a benefit this is a true artist who is from the USA who has been involved in NO's career for years you knob head.

Gillian was and always be NEW ORDER so just go shoot yourself in the head you prat - you and hooky deserve each other !

and for your information they can use the name !

No shit 'Toots' i thought he was out of some 3rd rate manc band..& full marks for swearing on yr 1st post. Met the fellow the same day interviewed Gretton in Prestwich for a mates 90's fanzine. Im so much of a knob head that i flew from Chicago to New Yorks years ago specifically just to see a M.Shamberg retrospective....

Just as interesting as the Robert Breer retrospective i saw at The Baltic in summer b4 he died.

TOOTS wrote:

and for your information they can use the name !

Are you Bernard? ;) Welcome to NOOL!

TOOTS wrote: Hooky has been living off the JD and NO name for a long time, I suspect that none of the money earned on his "projects" or merchandising ventures have touched the coffers of any member of NO or JD - and this includes Ian's wife, child and ex manager.

Don't feel sorry for that twat

living off the dead - I dont know how you can sleep at night in your footballer's mansion in alderley edge

Shame on you Hooky !

ahh...so glad to hear from someone with such intimate knowlege of what is going on with all of this....