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55 votes · voting closed
Now this is the time... Which band is more legitimate in your opinion? Or simply, what is your attitude towards these formations? Basically if you believe that New Order without Hooky is not right, then they should perform as Bad Lieutenant, no?
I'm only reflecting the current situation, that's why I didn't bring questions about Gillian or Bad Lieutenant.
You do realise dont you that none of these people give a damn about what you think or your feelings or whatever....Im having a really fucked up time lately as all these people that Ive admired throughout my life are turning in to something else....elitists....some people forget that they have arseholes too. I believe in the collective (un)conscious and if you listen carefully enough you can hear doors closing. Peace Big Brother....and yes i signed my own death warrant on the way out :)
Obviously, neither band is "legitimate" in the truest sense.
If you're going to break it right down then Bernard, Gillian, Stephen and Phil are definitely the most recognisable version of New Order at the moment. Phil C technically co-wrote parts of WFTSC as well so that's 3 members of the original 80s line-up plus him.
The Light are a very slick live band and you can't really doubt their playing ability but they are for all intents and purposes - a covers band - with just the one original member of JD/NO on board. With Pottsy's recent and temporary (?) placement as The Light's guitarist they are virtually identical to late-period Monaco but with an extra bassist. So erm, they are a legitimate Monaco except they aren't playing any Monaco tunes. I wish they would tbh but it wouldn't really fit in with the darker JD material I 'spose.
All that said I'll be well impressed if the New Order v3.0 line-up comes out with any new material at these gigs but only time will tell; even if it is a ramshackle Hellbent.
damien wrote: Im having a really fucked up time lately as all these people that Ive admired throughout my life are turning in to something else
By the way and probably a bad time to mention this but Santa Claus doesn't exist :)
By the way and probably a bad time to mention this but Santa Claus doesn't exist :)
they do ..I see them in the mall and on tv every year...theyre real mate 
Its all bollocks now sadly. If I were feeling cynical I would think that perhaps the New Order label is being used when it wouldnt have otherwise. What I mean is that had this New New Order decided to do some gigs Hooky wouldve had legal objections. With it being for charidee a move like that would've painted him as the bad guy I dont really think he is.
Also, will this new bass person be required to set his bass up like Hooky just to get the right sound?
Hes a cunt if he does
EdelBrock wrote: I'd say both... but thats without hearing what the Hookyless NO listens like...
Havent you heard Bad Loo?....
Gene wrote: Its all bollocks now sadly. If I were feeling cynical I would think that perhaps the New Order label is being used when it wouldnt have otherwise. What I mean is that had this New New Order decided to do some gigs Hooky wouldve had legal objections. With it being for charidee a move like that would've painted him as the bad guy I dont really think he is.
Also, will this new bass person be required to set his bass up like Hooky just to get the right sound?
Hes a cunt if he does
Bit harsh, I assume he'll use the same set up as BL. I seem to remember the bass was quieter than the later NO gigs. Much more in the mix as opposed to being a lead instrument.
Just because the bass player leaves, it shouldn't mean the end of the band calling themselves x. Though Roger Waters would disagree. Hookys cashing in is getting on my bloody nerves - he can't be that skint, surely?
New Order will probably play the tracks that didn't rely so much on bass, so anyone wishing to hear '60 MPH' will be disappointed... :)
Had New Order not split after Republic, I always wanted them to head in a more progressive direction into pure dance/ambient style, which would of meant Hookys now somewhat cliched style of bass playing would of been almost non existent. New Order won't release innovative records again, but it will be interesting to hear how they sound without Peter.
Lot of sense in what Komakino says.
It's becoming apparent that there isn't a legal barrier to the name new order being used. Which makes Hooky's demand that noone uses it without him rather ego driven and arrogant. So well done to the band for finally ignoring this.
G-Man made a great point yesterday, this will show up Hooky's shabby side show for the embarrassment which it is.
Johnny Giles wrote: It's becoming apparent that there isn't a legal barrier to the name new order being used.
I'm Spartacus!
To me, I don't even bother with 'legitimate' or not. To many fans, maybe the only 'legitimate New Order' was from 1981 till Gillian left. About the people involved, this is as close to any reunion people can get, even if many people truly say 'This is not the real New Order'.
I know some people are saying 'Hooky's not in it, so it's not New Order', or 'I won't bother to see it because Hooky's not going to be there'. OK, then fine, do not go if you think that.
The Guardian article/interview from July of this year says " Peter Hook and his bandmates can barely bring themselves to speak to each other. They reveal where it all went wrong … separately", but it's obvious that it's not like all 4 (or 5, if you include Phil) aren't speaking to each other. Later in that article, it says
" you're standing outside the Cheshire farmhouse Stephen Morris shares with Gilbert, New Order's fourth member and his wife, where all the members bar Hook are gathered." .... "Everyone's entitled to start a tribute band," Sumner says, as he gets ready to head home. "Peter could have done a lot of things and we could still be friends, but now he's taking our actual heritage just like he took the Haçienda. It's hardly surprising we're so angry about it."
Bernard is on speaking terms with Steve, Phil, Gillian, as well as the other two people in BL. He even plays in BL with Steve and Phil. Steve is still married to Gillian and has reunited with her (musically) as The Other Two. Like I said, he is also in BL. So the rest of them seem to get along fine, and they also play/make music with each other like I've mentioned above.
My point is, 'How is it that the rest of them get along fine and play music together, but not with Hooky?'
komakino wrote:
Had New Order not split after Republic, I always wanted them to head in a more progressive direction into pure dance/ambient style, which would of meant Hookys now somewhat cliched style of bass playing would of been almost non existent. New Order won't release innovative records again, but it will be interesting to hear how they sound without Peter.
That's what I always wanted too... I still dream of Barney, Gillian and Steve getting together as "order" or whatever (as "wir" after "wire") and make one more classic electro-driven dream pop album, somehow I think they still have it in them.
Non of it. For me, it all stopped when they linked up with "The Hoff"! I mean... "The Hoff", ffs!
The truth is that New Order haven't played live for a number of years and Bad Lieutenant never have. By the time of Sirens even some of Barney's singing was on the tape.
As far as I could tell, the Light play live.
So I'm voting for them, sorry OLF 
Gazman wrote:
EdelBrock wrote: I'd say both... but thats without hearing what the Hookyless NO listens like...
Havent you heard Bad Loo?....
You have changed me heart ya ol' Gazman...
In retrospect the Light is probably more legitimate. I think they are out for enjoyment and fans... I think the NO act is a weak attempt to top Hooky...
leather_girl wrote:
Bernard is on speaking terms with Steve, Phil, Gillian, as well as the other two people in BL. He even plays in BL with Steve and Phil. Steve is still married to Gillian and has reunited with her (musically) as The Other Two. Like I said, he is also in BL. So the rest of them seem to get along fine, and they also play/make music with each other like I've mentioned above.
My point is, 'How is it that the rest of them get along fine and play music together, but not with Hooky?'
I'd think it was quite obvious... anytime I see Hooky I see a bass player who wants to rock out in a band that wants to be electronic and dance. There is obvious clashes, which is what made the music so refreshing and appealing. The rest of the band all had the same vision, Hooky had a different one, it only is obvious that there would be personality clashes. I wouldn't balme it on any one person or event, it simply was a personality clash... I mean, could you live in a home with a person who LOVED Def Leapord and Jon Bon Jovie, or NKOTB and NSYNC? I mean it could work, but somethings gonna give, especially after 30 years...
EdelBrock wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
Bernard is on speaking terms with Steve, Phil, Gillian, as well as the other two people in BL. He even plays in BL with Steve and Phil. Steve is still married to Gillian and has reunited with her (musically) as The Other Two. Like I said, he is also in BL. So the rest of them seem to get along fine, and they also play/make music with each other like I've mentioned above.
My point is, 'How is it that the rest of them get along fine and play music together, but not with Hooky?'
I'd think it was quite obvious... anytime I see Hooky I see a bass player who wants to rock out in a band that wants to be electronic and dance. There is obvious clashes, which is what made the music so refreshing and appealing. The rest of the band all had the same vision, Hooky had a different one, it only is obvious that there would be personality clashes. I wouldn't balme it on any one person or event, it simply was a personality clash... I mean, could you live in a home with a person who LOVED Def Leapord and Jon Bon Jovie, or NKOTB and NSYNC? I mean it could work, but somethings gonna give, especially after 30 years...
What's more important, rocking out, or writing good songs?
Hooky rocks out, yes, but it's Bernard, Gillian, and Steve who write the good songs.
EdelBrock wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
Bernard is on speaking terms with Steve, Phil, Gillian, as well as the other two people in BL. He even plays in BL with Steve and Phil. Steve is still married to Gillian and has reunited with her (musically) as The Other Two. Like I said, he is also in BL. So the rest of them seem to get along fine, and they also play/make music with each other like I've mentioned above.
My point is, 'How is it that the rest of them get along fine and play music together, but not with Hooky?'
I'd think it was quite obvious... anytime I see Hooky I see a bass player who wants to rock out in a band that wants to be electronic and dance. There is obvious clashes, which is what made the music so refreshing and appealing. The rest of the band all had the same vision, Hooky had a different one, it only is obvious that there would be personality clashes. I wouldn't balme it on any one person or event, it simply was a personality clash... I mean, could you live in a home with a person who LOVED Def Leapord and Jon Bon Jovie, or NKOTB and NSYNC? I mean it could work, but somethings gonna give, especially after 30 years...
Thanks for the opinion.
EdelBrock wrote: anytime I see Hooky I see a bass player who wants to rock out in a band that wants to be electronic and dance.
I know that Hooky enjoys playing bass and that's one of the reasons he likes to play live a lot (unlike Bernard), but this frequent notion that he's all into accoustics is not entirely correct. Take Revenge - that was all hardcore electronic, maybe even more than Electronic. Take Monaco - by then Electronic had gone all guitarry. Not to mention his DJing...
Sure there might be insanely electronic stuff that New Order could come up with, but the whole appeal of New Order was the smart balance between the guitar and the synths. I wonder if there's a song that's ruined by Hooky's bass. My answer is no.
So it's not like there's no room in an all-electro New Order for Hooky.
Five wrote: The truth is that New Order haven't played live for a number of years and Bad Lieutenant never have. By the time of Sirens even some of Barney's singing was on the tape.
As far as I could tell, the Light play live.
So I'm voting for them, sorry OLF
BUGGER
Old Lead Foot wrote:
Five wrote: The truth is that New Order haven't played live for a number of years and Bad Lieutenant never have. By the time of Sirens even some of Barney's singing was on the tape.
As far as I could tell, the Light play live.
So I'm voting for them, sorry OLF
BUGGER
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Sure there might be insanely electronic stuff that New Order could come up with, but the whole appeal of New Order was the smart balance between the guitar and the synths. I wonder if there's a song that's ruined by Hooky's bass. My answer is no.
So it's not like there's no room in an all-electro New Order for Hooky.
I'm a bigger fan of the synths than the bass, but I agree with this. The magic of NO for me was the simmering tension between the traditional rock 4-piece aspects and the synths/sequencers/drum machines on the other. When one or the other dominates, the result is lessened somewhat.
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:
EdelBrock wrote: anytime I see Hooky I see a bass player who wants to rock out in a band that wants to be electronic and dance.
I know that Hooky enjoys playing bass and that's one of the reasons he likes to play live a lot (unlike Bernard), but this frequent notion that he's all into accoustics is not entirely correct. Take Revenge - that was all hardcore electronic, maybe even more than Electronic. Take Monaco - by then Electronic had gone all guitarry. Not to mention his DJing...
Sure there might be insanely electronic stuff that New Order could come up with, but the whole appeal of New Order was the smart balance between the guitar and the synths. I wonder if there's a song that's ruined by Hooky's bass. My answer is no.
So it's not like there's no room in an all-electro New Order for Hooky.
Maybe I wasn't clear but I was talking about lifestyle of a rocker vs the lifestyle of a electro band. Hooky always looks out of place on the stage... more of a rocker presence, whereas the rest had a more electro presence. I didn't mean he doesn't enjoy electro music, He had alot to do with the sound of NO, Monaco, Revenge, etc which of course had a electronic sound.
EdelBrock wrote: Hooky always looks out of place on the stage... more of a rocker presence, whereas the rest had a more electro presence.
I disagree, when NO were at their most stylish the whole band looked out of place on stage. The decline started when Hooky started to run around the stage with the rock star poses. I prefered the blue lights and lack of movement, such a great atmosphere. Barney's barking didn't help either.
Live and let live.
Hooky left the band and he seems happy touring all the JD stuff. I'm just happy the rest of the band are back for a gig or two.....never thought I'd see it. Course it won't be the same, but who fookin cares. NU ORDAH!
Shug wrote: Live and let live.
Hooky left the band and he seems happy touring all the JD stuff. I'm just happy the rest of the band are back for a gig or two.....never thought I'd see it. Course it won't be the same, but who fookin cares. NU ORDAH!
True that... and this New Order will have more fun playing together and being around each other, than that old New Order.
