Dear Hooky

To a certain extent we've all shown an interest in your squabble with the OTHER THREE. We may have felt involved at times and expressed opinions but it's not really our argument or, for that matter, poor Michael Shamburg's.

Like you said; it won't be the same without you there. Not even 'the same but different', either. It will be completely different. Same singer, same drummer, same fucking backing tape, same autoque, same lights, same nutters down the front - all of which we love - but no Hooky.

So go on - make the call

Lots of love, Biginoil x

NotAMod..is that ME?

El Jarvo wrote:

Five wrote: To a certain extent we've all shown an interest in your squabble with the OTHER THREE. We may have felt involved at times and expressed opinions but it's not really our argument or, for that matter, poor Michael Shamburg's.

Like you said; it won't be the same without you there. Not even 'the same but different', either. It will be completely different. Same singer, same drummer, same fucking backing tape, same autoque, same lights, same nutters down the front - all of which we love - but no Hooky.

So go on - make the call

Lots of love, Biginoil x

Word.

cosigned

hibster wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

Five wrote: To a certain extent we've all shown an interest in your squabble with the OTHER THREE. We may have felt involved at times and expressed opinions but it's not really our argument or, for that matter, poor Michael Shamburg's.

Like you said; it won't be the same without you there. Not even 'the same but different', either. It will be completely different. Same singer, same drummer, same fucking backing tape, same autoque, same lights, same nutters down the front - all of which we love - but no Hooky.

So go on - make the call

Lots of love, Biginoil x

Word.

cosigned

If only.

Kinda reminds me of an argument I once had with my then girlfriend (now wife) - "don't try to out-stubborn me, 'cos you won't fucking win!"

Sadly, I don't see any happy reconciliation here and everyone loses to varying extents.

Five wrote: To a certain extent we've all shown an interest in your squabble with the OTHER THREE. We may have felt involved at times and expressed opinions but it's not really our argument or, for that matter, poor Michael Shamburg's.

Like you said; it won't be the same without you there. Not even 'the same but different', either. It will be completely different. Same singer, same drummer, same fucking backing tape, same autoque, same lights, same nutters down the front - all of which we love - but no Hooky.

So go on - make the call

Lots of love, Biginoil x

Nice to see you back here JOHN

Rocket Mick wrote: Nice to see you back here JOHN

RM

My loins have been stirred in all things NO. You joining the Viking hordes on their travels?

May be in PARIS

Rocket Mick wrote: May be in PARIS

Tres bien.

Five wrote: To a certain extent we've all shown an interest in your squabble with the OTHER THREE. We may have felt involved at times and expressed opinions but it's not really our argument or, for that matter, poor Michael Shamburg's.

Like you said; it won't be the same without you there. Not even 'the same but different', either. It will be completely different. Same singer, same drummer, same fucking backing tape, same autoque, same lights, same nutters down the front - all of which we love - but no Hooky.

So go on - make the call

Lots of love, Biginoil x

Let's correct that.

The same singer and songwriter.

The same drummer/keyboardist/programmer

The same original keyboardist/guitarist.

The same guitarist/keyboardist for the past ten years.

The same Akai hard disc recorders used for live sequencing (NIN and DM use the same).

The same man manning the Akai gear, Roger Lyons.

The same road crew.

3 people who have made of the majority of the songwriting of New Order for 30 years, and one other person who took over from the original keyboardist when she had to look after her sick child.

One original bass player who left the others without telling them, repeatedly slagged them off in the press, and then formed a Joy Division cover band while the other members wrote and released a new record under a different name.

And now those original members are performing under the original name, and the bass player will continue to play JD songs with a cover band...an admittedly kick ass cover band.

There we go.

New Order continues. Hooky quit. They have the right to continue without him. He didn't make the band, even if he is the member that you personally identify with the most.

Zachery Starkey wrote:

Five wrote: To a certain extent we've all shown an interest in your squabble with the OTHER THREE. We may have felt involved at times and expressed opinions but it's not really our argument or, for that matter, poor Michael Shamburg's.

Like you said; it won't be the same without you there. Not even 'the same but different', either. It will be completely different. Same singer, same drummer, same fucking backing tape, same autoque, same lights, same nutters down the front - all of which we love - but no Hooky.

So go on - make the call

Lots of love, Biginoil x

Let's correct that.

The same singer and songwriter.

The same drummer/keyboardist/programmer

The same original keyboardist/guitarist.

The same guitarist/keyboardist for the past ten years.

The same Akai hard disc recorders used for live sequencing (NIN and DM use the same).

The same man manning the Akai gear, Roger Lyons.

The same road crew.

3 people who have made of the majority of the songwriting of New Order for 30 years, and one other person who took over from the original keyboardist when she had to look after her sick child.

One original bass player who left the others without telling them, repeatedly slagged them off in the press, and then formed a Joy Division cover band while the other members wrote and released a new record under a different name.

And now those original members are performing under the original name, and the bass player will continue to play JD songs with a cover band...an admittedly kick ass cover band.

There we go.

New Order continues. Hooky quit. They have the right to continue without him. He didn't make the band, even if he is the member that you personally identify with the most.

Same management too, Bad Loot continued to be managed by Andy Robinson & Rebecca Boulton, same pairing that managed New Order after 1999 (and I assume are managing the new lineup)

I think also the same lighting guy (Andy Liddle) who has done New Order lighting since the mid 80s

So yeah Hooky really is a lone rebel. No one from the old set up I can think of has sided with him

I believe Hooky would have never left New Order; he was the one who always wanted to tour and record new music with them. Maybe Bernard told him something that compelled Hooky to leave. Bernard should speak up and ask Hooky to come back.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: I believe Hooky would have never left New Order;

But he did

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: I believe Hooky would have never left New Order; he was the one who always wanted to tour and record new music with them. Maybe Bernard told him something that compelled Hooky to leave. Bernard should speak up and ask Hooky to come back.

I don't even think Bernard even wants to work with Hooky any more. http://www.tonedeaf.com.au/features/interviews/80264/new-order-turn-towards-this-time-part-2.htm From this interview...

Sumner quietly says “I don’t think I could work with Peter Hook again. Um, I don’t think I’d like to tour again after what’s gone on. Things have gone too far, too many things have been said and done. I’m not a masochist.” When asked about the massive popularity in Australia last year of Peter Hook’s tour with his band The Light playing Joy Division’s debut album Unknown Pleasures in full Sumner is quick to point out that what in effect is Hook’s live Joy Division karaoke was the straw that broke the camel’s back. “Things have gone too far, yeah. The flogging of Pleasures is probably a point of no return.”

"...We didn’t make our reputation by constantly dredging up the past and living off that past. And I know we were talking today about the collecting of the bands’ material, but we’re at a point where we can’t move forward because of what’s happened between the band and Peter Hook. You know, New Order were about the future. I hope people think about that deeply.”

Zachery Starkey wrote:

Let's correct that.

*WOOOSH!*

"...We didn’t make our reputation by constantly dredging up the past and living off that past. And I know we were talking today about the collecting of the bands’ material, but we’re at a point where we can’t move forward because of what’s happened between the band and Peter Hook. You know, New Order were about the future. I hope people think about that deeply.”

Hadn't read this one, but this makes Barney sound like a cock now if you ask me. Sorry, but if I think about this "deeply" NO's best is behind them... like it or not they are not at an age anymore really to be looking towards the future... its kinda the age to start reminiscing... doesn't seem Barney is in with reality on that one....

NotAMod wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

"...We didn’t make our reputation by constantly dredging up the past and living off that past. And I know we were talking today about the collecting of the bands’ material, but we’re at a point where we can’t move forward because of what’s happened between the band and Peter Hook. You know, New Order were about the future. I hope people think about that deeply.”

Hadn't read this one, but this makes Barney sound like a cock now if you ask me. Sorry, but if I think about this "deeply" NO's best is behind them... like it or not they are not at an age anymore really to be looking towards the future... its kinda the age to start reminiscing... doesn't seem Barney is in with reality on that one....

You can read it and disagree with it but you can't really read it and go "he's a cock" unless you're hugely biased. Methinks you're trying to overcompensate to bring the Barney slagging in line with the Hooky slagging which is pathetic.

To be honest, I agree with Bernard here. He may have played the odd Joy Division or New Order track live with Bad Lieutenant but he was predominantly interested in creating new music which is to be admired and encouraged. It's interesting. We've all got the old stuff a million times over, what the hell is "cockish" about wanting to look to the future and create new music at any age?

You literally have a non-point here.

Not really a non-point... yes its admirable to release new music, hell I enjoy every song they put out and I always want more... but as they get to this age the majority of fans don't go to concerts to hear the new music, its mainly to hear an old gem.
Add that most musicians usually release subpar music as they get older. Granted there are exceptions to the rules and I could list some albums here or there that are excellent from aging rockstars... but really that is in the minority of releases... NO isn't the future anymore. Its not future-looking anymore, and hasn't been for quite sometime. Even Bad Loo wasn't future looking as Barney is implying... even if the band got back together, the future releases still would be subpar to the 80s (not saying it wouldn't be good, but it won't be as fresh and inventive as it was then). At this age they should be enjoying the royalties from all the work they created over the years... not trying to be young rock stars forever...

NotAMod wrote: Your second post makes a tad more sense but I'm still trying to equate how Bernard saying New Order were a forward-thinking band (which they were) and making an effort to write new material makes him "a cock"?

He should really just give up and start touring Power, Corruption & Lies shouldn't he?

Wouldn't be that bad... hell, I'd enjoy it.

I don't think they should trash new song writing, but it has always seemed that Barney is the type that never wants to do anything from the past... and if he does, its done begrudgingly.

Maybe this is decent for you as a fan because you're in the UK where you can see them anytime they do something small before they disappear... but look at how Barney did Bad Loo for the US tour... they never made up any dates, and in that same time this is Hooky's second time touring the US.

The site has become a Hooky trashing site... and while I don't agree with everything Hooky did, Barney can look just as much as a cock when he is delusional in his idea of NO being a forward-thinking band... it was, 25 years ago... get off it... or in other words, take a shite or get off the pot.

I don't think these forums are Hooky bashing in general. Some people may have slagged him off but not everybody. Regarding what Hooky has said in interviews and his touring of JD, I personally disagree with a lot of what he's said and done but I don't attack him personally. If I had the time & money I would rather see BL or NO than The Light. And I think it's a nice thing that Bernard has tried to make new music and such even though he is older instead of touring JD or NO albums.

Maybe Hooky was tongue in cheek in his statement (Queen without Freddie etc) but reading comments, some people didn't see it that way and that is understandable.

NotAMod wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: I believe Hooky would have never left New Order; he was the one who always wanted to tour and record new music with them. Maybe Bernard told him something that compelled Hooky to leave. Bernard should speak up and ask Hooky to come back.

You have literally nothing to back up your argument other than your own barmy fantasy which you've just invented as you are typing. You literally have no credible evidence to back up your Bernard claim, do you? Come on it's complete bollocks innit?

I'm all for the two of them making peace but just because you can't get your head around it let's not start randomly applying blame.

Um.. I've had this opinion since 2007. The reason Hooky gave back in May 2007 was that he wanted to work further and Barney and Steve "lacked a drive for it" (some old interview). Secondly, it's been brought up a few times, there was a heated argument during the South American tour between Barney and Hooky. About what? We don't know. They both are completely different characters. Hooky is all emotional and opens his mouth sometimes more needed (probably that's what also added to the split). Now Bernard seems like a control freak, so to work with him might be not that easy for punks like Hooky lol )) Why in the world Hooky would want to end New Order, his band, unilaterally? It doesn't make sense. There must have been reasons besides "Oh I quit", and we don't know them. That's all I want to say.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Why in the world Hooky would want to end New Order, his band, unilaterally? It doesn't make sense.

It makes lots of sense. There's no money to be had in New Order - it's all in Joy Division or DJing. He's getting on a bit, wants to maximise his income before he no longer has one, the others don't want to do the nostalgia thing so he's doing it alone. Credit to him. The touring of the JD albums makes financial sense though it stinks. To back up my point wasn't the last UK gig moved to a smaller venue because of poor ticket sales? The final nail in the NO coffin.

leather_girl wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: I believe Hooky would have never left New Order; he was the one who always wanted to tour and record new music with them. Maybe Bernard told him something that compelled Hooky to leave. Bernard should speak up and ask Hooky to come back.

I don't even think Bernard even wants to work with Hooky any more. http://www.tonedeaf.com.au/features/interviews/80264/new-order-turn-towards-this-time-part-2.htm From this interview...

Sumner quietly says “I don’t think I could work with Peter Hook again. Um, I don’t think I’d like to tour again after what’s gone on. Things have gone too far, too many things have been said and done. I’m not a masochist.” When asked about the massive popularity in Australia last year of Peter Hook’s tour with his band The Light playing Joy Division’s debut album Unknown Pleasures in full Sumner is quick to point out that what in effect is Hook’s live Joy Division karaoke was the straw that broke the camel’s back. “Things have gone too far, yeah. The flogging of Pleasures is probably a point of no return.”

"...We didn’t make our reputation by constantly dredging up the past and living off that past. And I know we were talking today about the collecting of the bands’ material, but we’re at a point where we can’t move forward because of what’s happened between the band and Peter Hook. You know, New Order were about the future. I hope people think about that deeply.”

That last quote from Barney is more perceptive than many people have noticed. The first time NewOrder did any formal retrospective (aside from "Substance", which collected the -mostly non-album- singles), was 1994 when they had formally split up ; and even that contained new recordings and revamped mixes.