Hooky's Response

Peter Hook Responds To This Week's Events Posted on Friday, 9 September 2011

I first I heard about this on Monday and it has taken me completely by surprise! Everyone knows that NEW ORDER without PETER HOOK is like QUEEN without FREDDIE MERCURY, U2 without THE EDGE, SOOTY without SWEEP!

On a more serious note, I do not understand the decision THE OTHER THREE have taken. I wish they had approached me first. I do not agree with the methods they have used and feel it would have been courteous and professional to have spoken to me in advance of the announcements. It is very sad.

Love PETER HOOK x Sept ‘11

You can see both sides...

I take it Barney is Sooty?!

Yes, they should have spoken to him. Not sure about the rest

Perhaps they should have spoken to him first, but given that these are charity gigs, complaining about it seems a little...small. (Now, if this turns into a full-blow reunion with a new album and tour, then that's a different story.)

Can Hooky not ring the band and like, speak to them?

Broken things can be fixed.

The four of them are still alive and kicking (each other), sort it out.

Everyone knows it makes sense.

Queen without John Deacon. U2 without Adam Clayton.

Not so sure who played bass for Sooty. Sue was keys & Sweep was drums though.

You've moved on Peter. Wish you hadn't. But you have.

Leave them to it. Enjoy the Light.

Regardless of him leaving, I still think he should have been told out of courtesy.

Rorschach wrote: Not so sure who played bass for Sooty. Sue was keys & Sweep was drums though.

Its getting to the point where its more like Rainbow without Bungle.

Missy Jem wrote: Regardless of him leaving, I still think he should have been told out of courtesy.

Did Hooky tell them about the JD tours?

Both sides are guilty of a lack of courtesy.

The soap opera continues!

If your other half left you and you decided to go back to your ex, would you tell them? Probably not.

It's easy for us on the outside to say they should have spoken to him.

God he looks more & more of a twat day by day.

Tock wrote:

Missy Jem wrote: Regardless of him leaving, I still think he should have been told out of courtesy.

Did Hooky tell them about the JD tours?

Both sides are guilty of a lack of courtesy.

The soap opera continues!

If he didn't then he should have. Works both ways.

ewok wrote: God he looks more & more of a twat day by day.

No need for that s***.

Hooky was the heart and soul of the band.

"C'mon lets have a bit of respect!"

He has lost his way here though.

Suspect he wants to be back playing with New Order more than anyone but its all gone way too far.

Missy Jem wrote:

Tock wrote:

Missy Jem wrote: Regardless of him leaving, I still think he should have been told out of courtesy.

Did Hooky tell them about the JD tours?

Both sides are guilty of a lack of courtesy.

The soap opera continues!

If he didn't then he should have. Works both ways.

Correct mate, "Both sides are guilty of a lack of courtesy"

"I want to know what Tom Chapman thinks about all this."

With all the sniddy comments, silence and non-communication between band members, couldnt the management have stepped in and sorted all the problems out.

or is there no management? or is the management a waste of space?

confused

Of course it's sad that it would come to this kind of squabbling, and I'd much prefer it if they could at least be civil with one another, if not exactly friendly, but when has Peter Hook ever told the rest of the band anything in advance in the last few years? Did he tell them when he bought the Hacienda trademark behind their backs? Did he tell them in advance when he left the group, declaring it had 'broken up?'. Did he tell them in advance what he was going to do with UP and Closer? What about the spoken word tour with JD memoribilia or the rerecording of old JD songs with Rowetta? I think we all know the answer to these questions.

If I was in the rest of the band's position, I think I'd have a hard bloody time letting him know in advance.

A few things I thought while reading this... Wouldn't it be more natural if he said 'New Order without me', as opposed to 'New Order without Peter Hook'? (We already know it's Hooky making these statements.)

Why did he have to write 'the other three' in capital letters? For emphasis?

Would he be more sympathetic to the reunion if they (or one of them, or at least maybe one of their agents/managers) had talked to him about it?

NotAMod wrote: I think regardless of this response the vast majority of fans have voted with their feet. Bar one or two ardent fans bravely sticking to their "principles" and staying behind in the UK to watch Holby City rather than watch a Hooky-less New Order both gigs are completely sold out now I believe?

In what, 20-30 minutes? Impressive.

Tock wrote:

ewok wrote: God he looks more & more of a twat day by day.

No need for that s***.

Hooky was the heart and soul of the band.

"C'mon lets have a bit of respect!"

He has lost his way here though.

Suspect he wants to be back playing with New Order more than anyone but its all gone way too far.

There's every need.

No chance of any respect for him when he continues to bitch about it year after year.

It's gone too far because he can't keep his mouth shut.

Rorschach wrote: Queen without John Deacon. U2 without Adam Clayton.

Not so sure who played bass for Sooty. Sue was keys & Sweep was drums though.

You've moved on Peter. Wish you hadn't. But you have.

Leave them to it. Enjoy the Light.

Clayton and Deacon are just bass players, that's all. In Joy Division and New Order, the bass sound and style played an integral part in the sound. Peter Hook has persona, presence, is a huge influence to countless bands, and much much more.

If you can't recognize that as a fan of the band, well you can't be a true fan then.

Personally,as a long time fan of the band, I don't see Bernard, Steve or Hooky as being replaceable! It was disapointing when Gillian left, but everyone got over it and moved on.

condemnation wrote: Clayton and Deacon are just bass players, that's all. In Joy Division and New Order, the bass sound and style played an integral part in the sound. Peter Hook has persona, presence, is a huge influence to countless bands, and much much more.

If you can't recognize that as a fan of the band, well you can't be a true fan then.

Personally,as a long time fan of the band, I don't see Bernard, Steve or Hooky as being replaceable! It was disapointing when Gillian left, but everyone got over it and moved on.

I think we're all pretty well aware and fully appreciative of Hooky's idiosyncratic bass style mate.

For a less tongue-in-cheek response, look to Biginoil's thread.

El Jarvo wrote: I want to know what Tom Chapman thinks about all this.

Whoever the fuck he is?

I'm sure it's akin to his reaction here

michael preda wrote:

El Jarvo wrote: I want to know what Tom Chapman thinks about all this.

Whoever the fuck he is?

I'm sure it's akin to his reaction here

Is it a hint to New Order's future? New Order sans Hooky, Bernard, Steve and Gillian? Only Tom, Phil and a few guest musicians...

ARGGGGGH

1. Could it be that Hooky was compelled to leave the band after some obviously severe argument? It's too simple to say he left the band. We don't know what was said between him and Bernard. It might have been a bluff that went too far and turned into a sad reality.

2. Hooky honestly tried to make new music right away after the leave, that is, with Freebass. We all know how Freebass ended. I personally think he should have revived Monaco... but unfortunately Hooky has given up on recording anything new due to the fear of Internet filesharing sites evaporating all his financial input, sigh. Anyway, without NO and Freebass he turned to his beloved touring. What else could he play but Joy Division, his own band?

All in all, there's an obvious lack of a stern and unsensitive management that could sort all those things out before they exploded.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

michael preda wrote:

El Jarvo wrote: I want to know what Tom Chapman thinks about all this.

Whoever the fuck he is?

I'm sure it's akin to his reaction here

Is it a hint to New Order's future? New Order sans Hooky, Bernard, Steve and Gillian? Only Tom and Phil and a few guest musicians.

Quite likely, I do see it as feasible for them to keep Phil and Tom on, and I may be the only one who actually enjoys them in the lineup. Perhaps with Gillian around the balance will return a bit.

NotAMod wrote: I think regardless of this response the vast majority of fans have voted with their feet. Bar one or two ardent fans bravely sticking to their "principles" and staying behind in the UK to watch Holby City rather than a Hooky-less New Order both gigs are completely sold out now I believe?

In what, 20-30 minutes? Impressive.

I would much rather see Hooky playing bass on those nights but it won't stop me from enjoying the shows.

Yeah, but dont forget the massive crowds of tens of thousands of people clamouring to see The Light.

Oh. Yeah. LOL.

The Teacher wrote:

Yeah, but dont forget the massive crowds of tens of thousands of people clamouring to see The Light.

Oh. Yeah. LOL.

Knobhead. They've been touring for a long time. Do you even know how many people have seen them?

Thought not.

Get well soon.

Missy Jem wrote:

Tock wrote:

Missy Jem wrote: Regardless of him leaving, I still think he should have been told out of courtesy.

Did Hooky tell them about the JD tours?

Both sides are guilty of a lack of courtesy.

The soap opera continues!

If he didn't then he should have. Works both ways.

i'm agree....

Rorschach wrote:

You've moved on Peter. Wish you hadn't. But you have.

Leave them to it. Enjoy the Light.

http://consequenceofsound.net/2011/09/peter-hook-speaks-on-new-order-reunion/

They all act like kids. Hooky left NO, went on the play out JD tunes, slagged of the rest of his old band, which brought him fame, fortune and the JD songs he is playing out now. Barney formed Bad Loo, wrote some new tunes and toured them. Also he played some JD and NO tunes, which he allowed to do so (just as Hooky is). And now Hooky is amazed that they didn't contact him before? he left, does his own thing (the light is cool by the way) and should leave the rest do what ever they want to. But in they end, they all lost. It has become a bitter slapstick soapopera, which i wish would not have taken place. So NO reforming for a good cause, hell yeah! nobody cried that hard when gillian gilbert left NO ten years ago, did it change NO? i don't think so...Hooky is not a saint, NO tracks can be played without him. It's just that the picture would be more complete if he was around. But he's not, so let's all move on. Even Hooky needs to do this

Now, where's my beer

robB wrote: Peter Hook Responds To This Week's Events Posted on Friday, 9 September 2011...

Everyone knows that NEW ORDER without PETER HOOK is like QUEEN without FREDDIE MERCURY, U2 without THE EDGE, SOOTY without SWEEP!

Tone down your ego and get over yourself.

El Jarvo wrote: I'd piss myself if New Order started playing Dreams Never End again now.

Or the could go to the other extreme and play Republic in full :\ohwell:

We now know that Hooky doesn't mind them using the name, giving them a green light to record/release more material / tour under the New Order name.

Interesting...

leather_girl wrote: http://consequenceofsound.net/2011/09/peter-hook-speaks-on-new-order-reunion/

“I don’t want to play with Bernard [Sumner] again, certainly don’t want to play with Gillian [Gilbert] or Stephen [Morris],”

Wow on the comment about Gillian and Steve. I knew there were issues between him and Barney, but it really looks like a bigger issue between him and Gillian (and then Steve who would obviously back her).... maybe this whole thing does have to do with the cancer issue....

EdelBrock wrote:

leather_girl wrote: http://consequenceofsound.net/2011/09/peter-hook-speaks-on-new-order-reunion/

“I don’t want to play with Bernard [Sumner] again, certainly don’t want to play with Gillian [Gilbert] or Stephen [Morris],”

Wow on the comment about Gillian and Steve. I knew there were issues between him and Barney, but it really looks like a bigger issue between him and Gillian (and then Steve who would obviously back her).... maybe this whole thing does have to do with the cancer issue....

We have no idea.
Best not to speculate in that direction really.

NotAMod wrote: Indeed, I really would refrain from discussing private health or family matters to do with the band on here in any sense really. It has got absolutely fuck all to do with any of us and they deserve complete privacy in that regard. All of them.

Woah... sound like a Mod there. But I'm NotAMod.

I'm in the dark on the cancer thing though... but you are right its none of my [or anyone elses] business.

NotAMod wrote: Indeed, I really would refrain from discussing private health or family matters to do with the band on here in any sense really. It has got absolutely fuck all to do with any of us and they deserve complete privacy in that regard. All of them.

Woah... sound like a Mod there. But I'm NotAMod.

...THEN DON'T act lIke one:p

NotAMod wrote: Indeed, I really would refrain from discussing private health or family matters to do with the band on here in any sense really. It has got absolutely fuck all to do with any of us and they deserve complete privacy in that regard. All of them.

Point taken.

Geez, speculations have been all abound on this site for years now... I'm simply pointing out that there seems to be more friction between him and Gillian than with him and Barney by that statement. As far as I know, that is new insight to what we have all been wondering about and puts a new light on where (if at all possible) patches need to be made.

Plus others have mentioned the health issue with no one stepping in about it before? Why all of a sudden a bunch are trampling over my dick about it?

I can see your point, but at the same time if they wanted to keep it private, then it should not have been discussed in the interview. My mentioning it is not meant to be insensitive or disrespectful towards the seriousness of any stress this would have caused the band members... but one thing comes out in an article, then a couple months later this is said, its hard not to put two and two together and try to make sense of it all...

**by the way, who is NoMod? Not being here for awhile and when people change names and can't see profile info... don't know who anyone is anymore...

El Jarvo wrote: I want to know what Tom Chapman thinks about all this.

Whoever the fuck he is?

Tracy Chapman's brother according to Bernard :evil:

I could ever not imagine that the band would end like twats

It's more like the Ramones without Dee Dee Ramone and if you ask me, they were still a pretty good band after he left.

Anyway, I'm a newbie here and I'd like say a) hello! and b) that Rolling Stone has a interview with Hookie from today here, which I haven't seen posted on here.

EdelBrock wrote: I can see your point, but at the same time if they wanted to keep it private, then it should not have been discussed in the interview.

That was why I figured it would be okay to bring up. Once they discuss it 'officially,' it's fair game to talk about it.

I cant really seee Hookys problem .on this ..New Order as as acreative band has and always will be driven by Bernard..his influence ..his diversity ..from JD musically .to a more electro sound ..was his ..Hooky played bass..just like JD ..but where did New Orders sound evolve from?..Bernard ..with the help of a very very electro minded couple Mr n Mrs Morris..is this not New Order?..i think so ...and why not get together ..they are entitled !! ..Hookys fleeced the ole JD ..now ..lets hear it for the creative part of the band ..NEW ORDER ! NEW ORDER ! NEW ORDER!

JLo-Life wrote: It's more like the Ramones without Dee Dee Ramone and if you ask me, they were still a pretty good band after he left.

Anyway, I'm a newbie here and I'd like say a) hello! and b) that Rolling Stone has a interview with Hookie from today here, which I haven't seen posted on here.

Welcome here and thanks for the link!

So technically New Order bar Hooky are free to do whatever they want...

Tock wrote:

ewok wrote: God he looks more & more of a twat day by day.

No need for that s***.

Hooky was the heart and soul of the band.

"C'mon lets have a bit of respect!"

He has lost his way here though.

Suspect he wants to be back playing with New Order more than anyone but its all gone way too far.

No, he wasn't the heart and soul of the band. Maybe he is the member that you and others identify with the most, but he wasn't the heart and soul of New Order.

If he had wanted to keep playing with New Order, maybe he shouldn't have acted like a jerk when he quit.

EdelBrock wrote:

leather_girl wrote: http://consequenceofsound.net/2011/09/peter-hook-speaks-on-new-order-reunion/

“I don’t want to play with Bernard [Sumner] again, certainly don’t want to play with Gillian [Gilbert] or Stephen [Morris],”

Wow on the comment about Gillian and Steve. I knew there were issues between him and Barney, but it really looks like a bigger issue between him and Gillian (and then Steve who would obviously back her).... maybe this whole thing does have to do with the cancer issue....

Bernard Sumner has gone on record as saying that Hooky undermined and downgraded Gillian's contributions to New Order and that Gillian thought Hooky was a sexist pig, and that Steve didn't like how Hooky regarded Gillian as a lesser member of the group. This is one of the reasons Hooky isn't on Republic very much. Bernard said this in the Nolan book.

It amazes me how people are trying to make Bernard and the other members of NO the villians in this story.

On a positive note, they are helping a long time friend, medical expenses in the USA are extremely high. I hope these 2 shows are a great financial success and aid him in his cancer treatment.

Nuff said from me.

Maybe we'll finally get a decent bass...

Zachery Starkey wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

leather_girl wrote: http://consequenceofsound.net/2011/09/peter-hook-speaks-on-new-order-reunion/

“I don’t want to play with Bernard [Sumner] again, certainly don’t want to play with Gillian [Gilbert] or Stephen [Morris],”

Wow on the comment about Gillian and Steve. I knew there were issues between him and Barney, but it really looks like a bigger issue between him and Gillian (and then Steve who would obviously back her).... maybe this whole thing does have to do with the cancer issue....

Bernard Sumner has gone on record as saying that Hooky undermined and downgraded Gillian's contributions to New Order and that Gillian thought Hooky was a sexist pig, and that Steve didn't like how Hooky regarded Gillian as a lesser member of the group. This is one of the reasons Hooky isn't on Republic very much. Bernard said this in the Nolan book.

It amazes me how people are trying to make Bernard and the other members of NO the villians in this story.

Thanks for the reminder... clears that right up then!

NotAMod wrote: I used to be the moderator with the red/yellow True Faith-94 avatar :) Still helping out where possible but not really into moderation any more. Bit of a thankless task as I'm sure you can imagine.

Anyway back to discussing the Hooky response... that Murdoch bastion of credibility and integrity The Sun is also running with his initial statement.

Not using names? Remember ya now A***.

robB wrote: Peter Hook Responds To This Week's Events Posted on Friday, 9 September 2011

I first I heard about this on Monday and it has taken me completely by surprise! Everyone knows that NEW ORDER without PETER HOOK is like QUEEN without FREDDIE MERCURY, U2 without THE EDGE, SOOTY without SWEEP!

On a more serious note, I do not understand the decision THE OTHER THREE have taken. I wish they had approached me first. I do not agree with the methods they have used and feel it would have been courteous and professional to have spoken to me in advance of the announcements. It is very sad.

Love PETER HOOK x Sept ‘11

Or maybe JOY DIVISION without IAN...

You're a contradictory cunt Hooky...

NotAMod wrote:

I agree but I find it odd that in all the Hooky related statements issued over the past days that this sentiment has not been conveyed by the man himself. I've double checked what he's said to the press and Michael Shamberg has not been mentioned once which is a bit odd. Don't get me wrong, Hooky's a gregarious bloke and I'm sure he's concerned about any health issues regarding Mr Shamberg but it's a bit strange he neglected to mention it.

Most of the comments have revolved around his own "hurt" and "inconvenience" at what the others are doing rather than encouraging donations to Mr Shamberg's cause. Arguably if he had come at this from a positive angle the fan-base would be nagging Bernard and co to make peace instead. To be fair to "The Other Three" the basis of these gigs were plainly stated from the off; they are charitable.

I thought that was odd too, about Hooky not mentioning Shamberg.

anything he has had to say to michael he has said in private, not everything needs to be discussed in the public domain

i think more than enough has been explained within that rolling stone article, so im not going to add anything here.

what i will say though is that when you don't know the FACTS you should not jump to conclusions. there are no angels here.

[orange]Jack[/orange] wrote: anything he has had to say to michael he has said in private, not everything needs to be discussed in the public domain

i think more than enough has been explained within that rolling stone article, so im not going to add anything here.

what i will say though is that when you don't know the FACTS you should not jump to conclusions. there are no angels here.

Do you think they should have asked Hooky to be involved?

Do you think he should have accepted if they did?

Still too soon?

[orange]Jack[/orange] wrote: there are no angels here.

That about sums it up for me. Wise words from the youngster.

NotAMod wrote:

condemnation wrote: On a positive note, they are helping a long time friend, medical expenses in the USA are extremely high. I hope these 2 shows are a great financial success and aid him in his cancer treatment.

I agree but I find it odd that in all the Hooky related statements issued over the past days that this sentiment has not been conveyed by the man himself. I've double checked what he's said to the press and Michael Shamberg has not been mentioned once which is a bit odd. Don't get me wrong, Hooky's a gregarious bloke and I'm sure he's concerned about any health issues regarding Mr Shamberg but it's a bit strange he neglected to mention it.

Most of the comments have revolved around his own "hurt" and "inconvenience" at what the others are doing rather than encouraging donations to Mr Shamberg's cause. Arguably if he had come at this from a positive angle the fan-base would be nagging Bernard and co to make peace instead. To be fair to "The Other Three" the basis of these gigs were plainly stated from the off; they are charitable.

Personally, I've got tickets for both gigs so I'm relatively happy that at least some of my money will be going towards Mr Shamberg's health care. Anyone's who a "proper fan" as you stated in another thread should know Michael's contribution towards New Order's success. I'm pretty sure he's not sitting around going "anyone else doing New Order videos is like Freddie leaving Queen". Egos should be shelved.

Surely, this is a similar scenario with proceeds of The Light's live album going to victims of the Australian floodings. Something you can identify with, condemnation?

It's a positive note, as you say.

I think the major difference here is, Peter Hook & The Light release is exactly that. It's the Light's tribute to Joy Division and Ian Curtis, recorded live, with proceeds going to benefit the victims of the Queensland floods. He didn't do it as Joy Division, or New Order, there is no cash cow there to be milked. And Jack answered regarding Hooky and Michaels illness, so you can understand it being a private matter.

Bad Lieutenant could have done 2 benefit shows with special guest Gillian Gilbert, sell that out and there you go.. Peter Hook & The Light , has toured the World and has been a great success, made a lot of fans happy. People will go and see Peter Hook & The Light and also go and see New Order minus Peter Hook and enjoy them.

Also, touring around the World, there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! There is a pot, filled with bills. Rowing the boat across the Channel, doing 2 shows under New Order, there is O risk involved and a lot to gain.

Johnny Giles wrote:

[orange]Jack[/orange] wrote: anything he has had to say to michael he has said in private, not everything needs to be discussed in the public domain

i think more than enough has been explained within that rolling stone article, so im not going to add anything here.

what i will say though is that when you don't know the FACTS you should not jump to conclusions. there are no angels here.

Now could you remind your Dad about the benefits of keeping matters private? He's not exactly been the master of discretion the last few years has he?

And where have you got the facts from? You only have your Dad's interpretation to go on, probably the most twisted, biased and fucked up perspective out there.

So please don't patronise us with your all knowing comments, you're hardly offering an independent view and as you can see from the various threads the majority of fans have lost patience with Hooky and have become weary of the hypocrisy in his statements.

You're defending your Dad and good on you for that but you also come over as a tad naive. maybe time to give the boards a break?

Um, majority of fans? You think they all come onto this forum?? What planet are you coming from? If anyone may be closer to the facts, it's Jack! So if you are discrediting his posts, then what about the trash coming from the rest of the forum?

What sort of independent view are you looking for? One from Stephen Morris, who said "You know me Hooky, I just go with the flow"?

robB wrote: Peter Hook Responds To This Week's Events Posted on Friday, 9 September 2011

I first I heard about this on Monday and it has taken me completely by surprise! Everyone knows that NEW ORDER without PETER HOOK is like QUEEN without FREDDIE MERCURY, U2 without THE EDGE, SOOTY without SWEEP!

On a more serious note, I do not understand the decision THE OTHER THREE have taken. I wish they had approached me first. I do not agree with the methods they have used and feel it would have been courteous and professional to have spoken to me in advance of the announcements. It is very sad.

Love PETER HOOK x Sept ‘11

You can see both sides...

But Hooky left NO without telling them?

I take it Barney is Sooty?!

Johnny Giles wrote: you can see from the various threads the majority of fans have lost patience with Hooky and have become weary of the hypocrisy in his statements.

What threads are these? It all seems about 50/50 to me. Unless you want to sit down and start adding them up.

Dont try to speak for everybody. Tedious fucker.

Gene wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote: you can see from the various threads the majority of fans have lost patience with Hooky and have become weary of the hypocrisy in his statements.

What threads are these? It all seems about 50/50 to me. Unless you want to sit down and start adding them up.

Dont try to speak for everybody. Tedious fucker.

Well in the other thread 28 people have voted for the new New Order as being a more legitimate band, vs 1 person for the Light, so it's hardly 50/50 is it? I'd say there's a fair few dissonant voices like yourself but on the whole a large majority of fans are happy to see the band up and running again, even without Hooky. As evidenced by the fact that both shows sold out within about an hour yesterday.

Having been away for 3 years, and as such untainted by the boards opinion it seems all a bit childish on Hook's part. He doesn't want to be in the band, but doesn't want the others to carry on - yet he wants to flog every last ounce out the the JD legacy and The Hacienda.

I'm not too fussed on the idea of them all hugging it out and them getting back together. In an ideal world New Order would've ended with Factory.

Sooty and Sweep have split up, Sooty is going on tour with original member Sue and is continuing with the same management and road crew. Sweep is not happy, he has become a DJ and is getting someone to write a book for him.

Johnny Giles wrote:

Gene wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote: you can see from the various threads the majority of fans have lost patience with Hooky and have become weary of the hypocrisy in his statements.

What threads are these? It all seems about 50/50 to me. Unless you want to sit down and start adding them up.

Dont try to speak for everybody. Tedious fucker.

As Skullcrusher has pointed out, it's a bit fucking obvious from browsing about the board what the mood is towards Hooky. Sorry if I offended you and your precious little hero, Hooky wooky.

Let's look at the significance of the pole shall we? 1 in 28 voted New Order more legitimate (according to your calculations). No surprise, seeing it's a New Order forum, not a Peter Hook forum. But, lets put these figures out and translate them to the real World. Lets say that? You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?

In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.

I get it, this forum is your school playground, the way you are talking suggests you must be in the 11-12 year old range?

For all that the post Technique USA89 tour 'haitus' was painful and uncertain, at least it was fucking quiet.

Jack certainly had it right with his 'no angels' comment. Only a child would suppose otherwise.

I love Hooky. Have done for years. But I'm not with him on this. He's not a cunt, or anything like it.

If only Hooky would decide to write a new 'Music for Pleasure' - both his & ours. And leave the Other3 to being the latest new Neworder.

Here's the Rolling Stone interview if anybody would like to read it. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/peter-hook-saddened-and-upset-at-new-order-reunion-news-20110909

Johnny Giles wrote: Sorry if I offended you and your precious little hero, Hooky wooky.

You'd been doing quite well until that bit. That line makes you sound like a nine year old.

Must try harder.

As you're obviously interested, I like all the proper members equally; if the term 'like' can be applied to individuals in a music group. Ive never met any of them in person.

I wonder what would have been Hooky's response had the Other 3 told him in advance about their plans to reform? And if he had objected to them using the name would they have changed it to something else, and similarly if Hooky has told Bernard and Steve of his plans to tour U.P. would they have given their assent? And if they hadn't would he have abandoned his plans... I reckon that even though I have sympathy for Hooky with regard to this latest turn of events and think its a pity that he is now firmly out in the cold it does seem to me that the majority of noolers are tending not to see it that way and the general vibe on here seems to be that it is all his own fault..

I think part of the problem is that EVERYBODY ELSE (management etc.) is playing nicely together and Hooky is the outlier. Couple that with the relentless cash-in he's been pursuing over the last few years (and I'm not necessarily judging that-- I have How Not To Run a Club, after all), and yeah, he's not going to muster a lot of sympathy in many quarters.

cranelane wrote: its a pity that he is now firmly out in the cold it does seem to me that the majority of noolers are tending not to see it that way and the general vibe on here seems to be that it is all his own fault..

It is his own fault, he left the band. Bit like Torres leaving Liverpool and then moaning if they win the league. Hooky left of his own accord. If they carry on I'd say they have every right to, same way he had no problem when Gilbert left.

The likelyhood would've been if he hadn't left, they may have took a couple of years break again and we'd have possibly had another N.O. album by now.

Bottom line is, when he announced he was leaving he gave up any say in what New Order did after that.

condemnation wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote:

Gene wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote: you can see from the various threads the majority of fans have lost patience with Hooky and have become weary of the hypocrisy in his statements.

What threads are these? It all seems about 50/50 to me. Unless you want to sit down and start adding them up.

Dont try to speak for everybody. Tedious fucker.

As Skullcrusher has pointed out, it's a bit fucking obvious from browsing about the board what the mood is towards Hooky. Sorry if I offended you and your precious little hero, Hooky wooky.

Let's look at the significance of the pole shall we? 1 in 28 voted New Order more legitimate (according to your calculations). No surprise, seeing it's a New Order forum, not a Peter Hook forum. But, lets put these figures out and translate them to the real World. Lets say that? You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?

In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.

I get it, this forum is your school playground, the way you are talking suggests you must be in the 11-12 year old range?

Poll, not pole. That is, unless your spelling is in the 11-12 year old range. Incidentally, I'd be guessing JG's NO gig attendance would outstrip your 'numerous' attendances of The Light featuring a Nice Red Prop Bass Guitar, but I don't have the stats to back that up.

What a terrific argument you pose here - lots of people went and saw Hooky tour the Joy Division Tribute act. Popularity equals quality, just take a look at the charts for evidence...and of course, it is impossible to see the Light and yet still regard it as less legitimate than the other 80% of the band performing together. Because everything is that black and white, isn't it?

Looking at the RS article, Hooky says

But I do know at this point in time there have been some really underhand, dirty business dealings[emphasis mine] that have enabled them to do this that I don’t agree with and I’m very saddened and upset by it.

That's a hell of an accusation.

Steve #1 wrote:

It is his own fault, he left the band. Bit like Torres leaving Liverpool and then moaning if they win the league. Hooky left of his own accord. If they carry on I'd say they have every right to, same way he had no problem when Gilbert left.

Good analogy that, trouble is Liverpool (and some of its fans) want him to stop playing football in the same style with which he played for LFC.

Insert your own 'Torres is shit' additions BTW.

[orange]Jack[/orange] wrote: anything he has had to say to michael he has said in private, not everything needs to be discussed in the public domain

i think more than enough has been explained within that rolling stone article, so im not going to add anything here.

what i will say though is that when you don't know the FACTS you should not jump to conclusions. there are no angels here.

Hello Hooky! Y'know,your Jack's grammar is always so much better than yours is.

I hope between you all,you can somehow resolve all this nonsense.

Regardless of what people think or say about this new brouhaha, there are only losers in this case. It's always sad to see your favourite band slowly fall apart, sometimes because of the slightest things which look serious in their eyes but they really aren't, like a tree loses it's leaves in autumn; they will be back next year. We all know that New Order REALLY is Gillian, Steve, Bernard and Hook and that was a fantastic time. They are ALL our heroes, just like Ian was. They are all part of that magic.

I only hope that these four people can go along with each other in the VERY near future. I don't NEED a reunion, or a new single or album. I just want them to have PEACE with each other. They deserve that peace with each other like no other musician on earth. If 3 members of New Order want to do some gigs for charity for Michael, then that's not a problem at all. In fact it's a noble thing.

You know what: I'll buy the new Total collection if the four of them WILL make peace ... just that ... only that ... please ... what else do we really need?!

Thank you in advance ... New Order :)

CTB wrote:

condemnation wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote:

Gene wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote: you can see from the various threads the majority of fans have lost patience with Hooky and have become weary of the hypocrisy in his statements.

What threads are these? It all seems about 50/50 to me. Unless you want to sit down and start adding them up.

Dont try to speak for everybody. Tedious fucker.

As Skullcrusher has pointed out, it's a bit fucking obvious from browsing about the board what the mood is towards Hooky. Sorry if I offended you and your precious little hero, Hooky wooky.

Let's look at the significance of the pole shall we? 1 in 28 voted New Order more legitimate (according to your calculations). No surprise, seeing it's a New Order forum, not a Peter Hook forum. But, lets put these figures out and translate them to the real World. Lets say that? You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?

In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.

I get it, this forum is your school playground, the way you are talking suggests you must be in the 11-12 year old range?

Poll, not pole. That is, unless your spelling is in the 11-12 year old range. Incidentally, I'd be guessing JG's NO gig attendance would outstrip your 'numerous' attendances of The Light featuring a Nice Red Prop Bass Guitar, but I don't have the stats to back that up.

What a terrific argument you pose here - lots of people went and saw Hooky tour the Joy Division Tribute act. Popularity equals quality, just take a look at the charts for evidence...and of course, it is impossible to see the Light and yet still regard it as less legitimate than the other 80% of the band performing together. Because everything is that black and white, isn't it?

Poll and pole is not a spelling error, it's a homonym!

My point is (it's not an argument)that the poll is insignificant and only an indication of what the members on the forum think. Everyone has had it in for Hooky for quite sometime now, so it's no shock. Makes no difference to my life in the slightest what people want to say on this, or any other forum. Go to the Peter Hook show and tell him it sucks, then you'll be a real man.

CTB wrote:

condemnation wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote:

Gene wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote: you can see from the various threads the majority of fans have lost patience with Hooky and have become weary of the hypocrisy in his statements.

What threads are these? It all seems about 50/50 to me. Unless you want to sit down and start adding them up.

Dont try to speak for everybody. Tedious fucker.

As Skullcrusher has pointed out, it's a bit fucking obvious from browsing about the board what the mood is towards Hooky. Sorry if I offended you and your precious little hero, Hooky wooky.

Let's look at the significance of the pole shall we? 1 in 28 voted New Order more legitimate (according to your calculations). No surprise, seeing it's a New Order forum, not a Peter Hook forum. But, lets put these figures out and translate them to the real World. Lets say that? You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?

In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.

I get it, this forum is your school playground, the way you are talking suggests you must be in the 11-12 year old range?

Poll, not pole. That is, unless your spelling is in the 11-12 year old range. Incidentally, I'd be guessing JG's NO gig attendance would outstrip your 'numerous' attendances of The Light featuring a Nice Red Prop Bass Guitar, but I don't have the stats to back that up.

What a terrific argument you pose here - lots of people went and saw Hooky tour the Joy Division Tribute act. Popularity equals quality, just take a look at the charts for evidence...and of course, it is impossible to see the Light and yet still regard it as less legitimate than the other 80% of the band performing together. Because everything is that black and white, isn't it?

Those who attend Hooky's shows have a great time. At the very least it's an opportunity for people who never had a chance to see JD/NO hear the songs performed by a member of the band, even if it's not the whole band.

As for the bad feelings between band members, it's not like this is the first time a bad breakup has happened in the history of the music industry.

Stop being the guy who shits in the punch bowl.

If I move on to New Order then we could end up like Pink Floyd, couldn’t we? You could have two bands playing New Order stuff.

See also: Christian Death

condemnation wrote: Go to the Peter Hook show and tell him it sucks, then you'll be a real man.

There isnt one of them that would do that, either at a gig or if they saw him in the street.

They'd probably just ask him to sign their copy of Technique.

And then come on here and say he was tosser. With a shit signature or summat.

condemnation wrote: In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.

Obviously you draw a crowd when you visit a backwater that gets very little in the way of culture.

condemnation wrote:

Poll and pole is not a spelling error, it's a homonym!

No, homonyms have the same spelling but different meanings like tosser, knob and cock. You just can't spell.

Having not seen a Light show on two counts a) principle and b) Hooky not bringing it anywhere I can get to without two days off and getting a hotel, were I to meet him, and if he were to ask my opinion, I'd tell him what I thought, which is not far off many peoples thoughts, which is the band (and the live album) sound a very good fascimile, but the idea of touring the entire JD body of work is.. questionable at best. You don't see John Cale touring the Velvets albums do you?

Since it's unlikely I will bump into him and unlikely he'll ask, I won't. After all, if I bumped into him on Hastings beach, I'd wouldn't run up to him and shout "YER A FCKING TWAT YER NOT JOY DIVISION!" because that'd be a totally bellended way of acting.

When I did meet him fourteen years ago, he was very personable and friendly. The business stuff I know nothing about.

Which is, to cut a short story long, a refutation. I wouldn't deferentially ask him to sign my copy of "Technique" thinking everything he ever does is gold. I've heard the Freebass album, after all.

James Thomas wrote: No, homonyms have the same spelling but different meanings like tosser, knob and cock. You just can't spell.

Clearly you looked that up in the 8 minutes between posts.

If New Order reform though... that puts Hooky's potential plan to play the NO albums in a much less attractive light to promotoers and time/babysitter/cash-poor fans, as a promoter could get the "real thing" instead of the "ex-real thing"

Hooky is starting to sound like that Les McQueen bloke in League of Gentlemen. "It's a shit business son", "What, you never heard of us??!!"

His statement is so ego-drenched and delusional you have to wonder if he was being entirely facetious. Then you remember he 'wrote' Unknown Pleasures, invented acid house, wrote the bassline to TBTHOG, invented the wheel, was responsible for the first downloaded album ever etc etc.

And realise, depressingly, it was probably written with a straight face. I await the Hacienda branded cure for cancer with interest. Hopefully he'll throw in the oven gloves gratis if I buy Rob Gretton's sister in law's Vauxhall Corsa.

Cee Cee wrote: Hooky is starting to sound like that Les McQueen bloke in League of Gentlemen. "It's a shit business son", "What, you never heard of us??!!"

His statement is so ego-drenched and delusional you have to wonder if he was being entirely facetious. Then you remember he 'wrote' Unknown Pleasures, invented acid house, wrote the bassline to TBTHOG, invented the wheel, was responsible for the first downloaded album ever etc etc.

And realise, depressingly, it was probably written with a straight face. I await the Hacienda branded cure for cancer with interest. Hopefully he'll throw in the oven gloves gratis if I buy Rob Gretton's sister in law's Vauxhall Corsa.

What is it with people setting up profiles in different names just to make it look like lots of people hate hooky, it's probably only 3-4 people, grow up, have one profile and use your name you pricks.

TBF not much happens in NO world and this is the first time I've felt strongly enough to post on the site. But the constant...constant...CONSTANT shilling of the NO/JD/Hacienda/lost 3p on every copy thing is beyond grating.

To compare himself to Freddie Mercury in Queen is fucking crackers and a comment as risible as any made by his 'mate' Mani when supergroup 'Freebass' disbanded.

As I suspect the few thousand people that will return from the two gigs in October will happily confirm.

I think it's pretty clear that Hooky's "Queen without Freddie Mercury, U2 without The Edge" comment was made tongue in cheek. Did the Sooty and Sweep reference (and then the exclamation mark) not give it away?

I met Hooky a couple of years ago at a 'How Not To Run A Club' book signing. They say you should never meet your heroes, but he was really nice, very gracious to all the fans that turned out to meet him. I may not agree with all the things he's been up to recently, but he's a nice guy, he's put a lot back into Manchester, and he's helped create some absolutely fantastic music. We should all show him a bit more trust and respect.

I should add that I am not taking sides here. I really like Bad Lieutenant, I'm pleased that the rest of New Order have semi-reformed, and I would have gone to see them in Paris if I could have gotten a ticket. It's sad the way things have turned out, but being angry at Hooky is not the answer.

Jees like band like fans. It's all getting into childish nonsense territory. So much negativity. Quite depressing.

NO Regret wrote: Jees like band like fans. It's all getting into childish nonsense territory. So much negativity. Quite depressing.

True, I'm hanging my head in shame at my out burst, but the negativity is just getting on my tits!

El Jarvo wrote:

condemnation wrote: Let's look at the significance of the pole shall we? 1 in 28 voted New Order more legitimate (according to your calculations). No surprise, seeing it's a New Order forum, not a Peter Hook forum. But, lets put these figures out and translate them to the real World. Lets say that? You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?

In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.

I get it, this forum is your school playground, the way you are talking suggests you must be in the 11-12 year old range?

I really don't get your logic.

"You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?"

If (new) New Order were playing a venue next door to a Light concert and folk with a passing interest in the whole JD/NO thang had to choose which one they went into then what do you think the ratios would be then?

You've got to admit, in the current climate, New Order would probably romp home with this one.

Do you really think otherwise?

Impressed that the Light get 2k down under though. That's decent viewing figures.

My simple point is that people are over analysing the poll, that was it. So if you multiply the poll in reality, that's what you would get. Which isn't true. And again, it was in response to a members post attempting to put Hooky in the garbage.

I've already stated that of course New Order are going to be the bigger draw card, that's only natural and goes without saying. This scenario has gotten way out of hand. Back to the point, it's just an online poll. I was only trying to point out the childish behaviour of trying to constantly demean Peter Hook that a certain forum member was focusing on.

That's desperate for people to sign in under different names and go on the attack! LOL

James Thomas wrote:

condemnation wrote:

Poll and pole is not a spelling error, it's a homonym!

No, homonyms have the same spelling but different meanings like tosser, knob and cock. You just can't spell.

It was a sarcastic joke. Any prize on here for the best spelling and grammar on the neworderonline.com forum?

The best possibility is seeing two completely different takes on song material by those who we must admit are our heroes. Now... let's move on kiddies.

underdog69 wrote: The best possibility is seeing two completely different takes on song material by those who we must admit are our heroes. Now... let's move on kiddies.

I've stated before, the New Order shows are going to go well, the money is being raised for a good cause and will also bring hope to New Order fans around the World that the band may continue touring, when most people thought it wouldn't happen again. The fans will be ecstatic, and rightly so.

I'm repaeating myself again, for those that may not have seen me mention that in other threads. Just sick of the constant flaming, that's all.

James Thomas wrote:

condemnation wrote: In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.

Obviously you draw a crowd when you visit a backwater that gets very little in the way of culture.

Ease up, I know it's easy to sneer when you come from the cultural hub that is Yorkshire

God's own.:D

Heroes? I don't have any. Not even my Mum.

Though this whole Hooky Vs NO thing is stale now ; and if we're not careful, could stray into the "unmentionable" territority of Pink Floyd vs Roger Waters which probably culminated in duals by fencing between warring forumites.

I wish each of them, individually, and collectively, the best success for the future.

NotAMod wrote:

[orange]Jack[/orange] wrote: anything he has had to say to michael he has said in private, not everything needs to be discussed in the public domain

what i will say though is that when you don't know the FACTS you should not jump to conclusions. there are no angels here.

Fair dos, he's obviously entitled not to say anything about a private matter. I just spotted in the statements that the Shamberg topic had not really been touched on.

I don't think most fans have drawn absolute conclusions on it all. We can only go on what's written in various interviews and the press so far which just seems incredibly bitter (from both sides). Anyone with half a brain knows that there are dealings behind the scenes which none of us have knowledge of. No average fan really knows who's in the moral right or wrong in any of those dealings. Could be Bernard, could be Hooky... only the lawyers know.

Your new avatar is wonderful, Ally. I would just like to quickly point out, however, that if we live in a world where it's up to lawyers to decide what's "morally right" we really are all completely fucked.

Still, quite feisty round these parts now innit. I look forward to New New Order playing subsequent benefit gigs for the long-term unemployed, ie - me and Mick. ROCK 'N' ROLL, NOT DOLE etc.

Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote:

NotAMod wrote:

[orange]Jack[/orange] wrote: anything he has had to say to michael he has said in private, not everything needs to be discussed in the public domain

what i will say though is that when you don't know the FACTS you should not jump to conclusions. there are no angels here.

Fair dos, he's obviously entitled not to say anything about a private matter. I just spotted in the statements that the Shamberg topic had not really been touched on.

I don't think most fans have drawn absolute conclusions on it all. We can only go on what's written in various interviews and the press so far which just seems incredibly bitter (from both sides). Anyone with half a brain knows that there are dealings behind the scenes which none of us have knowledge of. No average fan really knows who's in the moral right or wrong in any of those dealings. Could be Bernard, could be Hooky... only the lawyers know.

Your new avatar is wonderful, Ally. I would just like to quickly point out, however, that if we live in a world where it's up to lawyers to decide what's "morally right" we really are all completely fucked.

Still, quite feisty round these parts now innit. I look forward to New New Order playing subsequent benefit gigs for the long-term unemployed, ie - me and Mick. ROCK 'N' ROLL, NOT DOLE etc.

I remember IAN doing a benefit for me about 1979 Dole Division at Darwen Cemetry Pub.

Johnny Giles wrote:

Gene wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote: Sorry if I offended you and your precious little hero, Hooky wooky.

You'd been doing quite well until that bit. That line makes you sound like a nine year old. Must try harder.

Designed for its audience son.

I knew you were going to post something like that

Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: I would just like to quickly point out, however, that if we live in a world where it's up to lawyers to decide what's "morally right" we really are all completely fucked.

Hey now.

:p

Here's a thought.

We all make decisions on the basis of what we know. If what we know is not the full picture, some of those decisions and opinions may change in the light of new information. Saying, for example, "You're wrong,I have facts you don't, and I won't tell you them", does make it difficult to know all the relevant information.

I still think the light concept is pointless. Even if they do sound pretty good, i find the whole thing quite embarrassing.

Also Hooky's quote from the RS interview, "ultimately it’s my music they’re playing", i don't think it is his music.

So there.

mark reed wrote: Here's a thought.

We all make decisions on the basis of what we know. If what we know is not the full picture, some of those decisions and opinions may change in the light of new information. Saying, for example, "You're wrong,I have facts you don't, and I won't tell you them", does make it difficult to know all the relevant information.

Right. If you know what's really going on, but you're not going to say anything about it, it's not really fair to give people a hard time because YOU DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH, WHICH I KNOW BUT WON'T TELL YOU.

blunt laser wrote: I still think the light concept is pointless. Even if they do sound pretty good, i find the whole thing quite embarrassing.

Also Hooky's quote from the RS interview, "ultimately it’s my music they’re playing", i don't think it is his music.

So there.

I think Hooky is oddly possessive about things like his shared legacy with Bernard and Steve. Somewhere along the line he resented Bernard for being a lead singer and actually embracing the role. Wasn't Gillian quoted as saying she thought Hooky wished he were the frontman? Fact is, New Order's fortunes increased with Bernard's improved singing and his and Steve's focus on technology, not with awesome bass solos.

blunt laser wrote: I still think the light concept is pointless. Even if they do sound pretty good, i find the whole thing quite embarrassing.

Also Hooky's quote from the RS interview, "ultimately it’s my music they’re playing", i don't think it is his music.

So there.

Yeah that caught me off..

Hooky says they are playing HIS music?

So Hooky wrote Steve's drum parts, wrote Gillian's keyboard parts, wrote Bernards vocal, guitar, and synth parts, and wrote all of the songs?

So Hooky was like the Martin Gore of New Order then? Huh?

Seeing that Hooky is said to have been constantly flaming his ex band mates for the last 5 years I and wondering is this actually the case and life being too short to go over every single interview he has done since the break up I picked one 30 minute interview from July 2009 and in that interview his only negative reference to Bernard was a comment about the soft polished sound on Republic and a feeling that recording Sirens reminded him of Republic, He preferred Get Ready which was "edgier".

He also said at one stage that "New Order music is mine" but quickly added "It's all ours really".

But most interestingly is that he said they would never make another record as New Order "unless there was a lot of healing" and asked about playing live as New Order again he said that he wouldn't discount it if it was for charity or something like that "I would not say no" and likewise if they were offered "a ridiculous amount of money" which is the part of his answer to the question that Hooky detractors could latch on to as further proof of his general wickedness while those sympathetic to him would point to the other part of his answer as proof that if approached he may even now have considered taking part in the October gigs. It must also be born in mind that this interview was conducted before the commencement of the UP tours which have been called the final straw by Bernard.. So,while a lot has happened since then it is interesting that he didn't then rule out playing with them in circumstances like those that have now come about.Link The reference to playing again is in part 3 of the interview near the beginning.

El Jarvo wrote: I want to know what Tom Chapman thinks about all this.

Whoever the fuck he is?

Chappy, as the new New Order bassist will now be fondly referred to as, is probably shitting himself. Obviously the others believe he's up to the challenge though.

I want to know what Jake Evans has on his mind...

Housey wrote:

mark reed wrote: Here's a thought.

We all make decisions on the basis of what we know. If what we know is not the full picture, some of those decisions and opinions may change in the light of new information. Saying, for example, "You're wrong,I have facts you don't, and I won't tell you them", does make it difficult to know all the relevant information.

Right. If you know what's really going on, but you're not going to say anything about it, it's not really fair to give people a hard time because YOU DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH, WHICH I KNOW BUT WON'T TELL YOU.

That's the point. All this stuff about arguments behind closed doors, or dodgy business stuff that's happened, that has been alluded to but not detailed, makes it a bit rich to be judged by others who know a lot more and aren't or don't or can't say.

El Jarvo wrote: I want to know what Tom Chapman thinks about all this.

What a surprise? Nice job.

If Hooky is going to stop the gigs by court decision, I'll...

Nobby posted an article from a german magazine. It says that Hooky is checking for legal measures.

Let's hope it may be just because of the name or something.

Bere wrote: Nobby posted an article from a german magazine. It says that Hooky is checking for legal measures.

There's an NME interview from about 1991 where Hooky claimed to have "eight solid inches that never let him down. Not ever." To save Peter time and effort, I can confirm that the legal European metric equivalent measurement is 20.3cm.

I look forward to a Christmas card from Hook Towers, Alderley Edge.

NOOL:Where the fans are as bitter as the band

I think in the end people who fancy seeing a JD cover band can do so with The Light, where as dad dancing hooligans still clinging onto their viking memories can see the reformed New Order. It's really the best for both camps as everyone can get what they'd like, and yes it's a shame to see a band we all love act like squabbling children on a shitty Christmas morning, we can just hope one side of them gives us great music and great performances. Or we can just wait till the JD/NO rockband edition that will no doubt come out.

NotAMod wrote: Another Hooky interview published today on the Metro NY web site. Naturally, covers recent events. He describes him and Bernard as "the worst of bitter sworn enemies" so I doubt there will be any Christmas cards or bouquets of flowers exchanged any time soon.

"Candid" is probably an understatement.

"I’ve got hundreds of rehearsal tapes of Joy Division and New Order. I found a wonderful one the other day that had the whole New Order set without vocals, which sounded great..."

Whatever could he mean?

NotAMod wrote: Another Hooky interview published today on the Metro NY web site. Naturally, covers recent events. He describes him and Bernard as "the worst of bitter sworn enemies" so I doubt there will be any Christmas cards or bouquets of flowers exchanged any time soon.

"Candid" is probably an understatement.

It's a shame that no material (pre-dating WFTSC) will ever get released at this stage. It's been stated many times that Bernard didn't want any more JD live material to be released, so I guess it's the same with New Order.

So, we will probably be lucky to get the WFTSC outtakes.

condemnation wrote:

NotAMod wrote: Another Hooky interview published today on the Metro NY web site. Naturally, covers recent events. He describes him and Bernard as "the worst of bitter sworn enemies" so I doubt there will be any Christmas cards or bouquets of flowers exchanged any time soon.

"Candid" is probably an understatement.

It's a shame that no material (pre-dating WFTSC) will ever get released at this stage. It's been stated many times that Bernard didn't want any more JD live material to be released, so I guess it's the same with New Order.

So, we will probably be lucky to get the WFTSC outtakes.

Stated where? There are now seven discs of live Joy Division available to fans. Two of which aren't especially listenable. And we have New Order's live DVDs. Granted, I would love some quality footage documenting 1983, 1989, and 1993 all on one disc, as those are the most pivotal years in their career. But if the remasters hadn't been such an absolute cock up, I would go so far as to say New Order have spoiled their fans with alternate mixes and live material.

Tock wrote:

ewok wrote: God he looks more & more of a twat day by day.

hahaha -- a TWAT!

I agree that we probably have enough live JD to do us for a while. After all, no matter how many gigs you have it's still the same repetoire of songs.

But yeah...more early live NO would be nice. The live versions of 5-8-6 I've heard are so much better than the album version.

NotAMod wrote:

JV wrote:

condemnation wrote: It's been stated many times that Bernard didn't want any more JD live material to be released, so I guess it's the same with New Order.

So, we will probably be lucky to get the WFTSC outtakes.

Stated where?

That is a good point actually. I don't really recall reading any interviews with Bernard where he specifically says he "doesn't want" further Joy Division material released. I do remember around the time of the Joy Division remasters in 2007 that he reportedly considered the ULU gig on the Closer reissue "a favourite". There is admittedly that aspect to Bernard where he doesn't like dwelling on the past.

The Rare and Unseen Footage DVD was released as recently as 2008 which was overseen principally by Hooky and Steve so it does seem possible the band can release older stuff.

I agree with JV really... there are more than enough Joy Division live albums out there, not to mention Still, the Peel Sessions and discs 3 and 4 of Heart & Soul. Do we really need more?

That said, it would be nice to hear some '81 to '93 era New Order gigs at some point. A few have leaked out from various blogs over the years but something official would be good. Unfortunately, I wouldn't trust Rhino to make a cup of tea without burning the place down much less oversee a collection of live albums

It's a known fact. I was also commenting after reading the interview, where the link was just posted, Hooky reiterates that fact again.

New Order have released quite a few live videos and dvd's over the years, that's for sure. The only live audio is the BBC concert and the CD that comes with the boxset. Audio wise, it's not a great deal.

(From that interview in the Metro)

We split up five years ago and stopped working together. And, it’s a long time. And really, our relationship has been terrible ever since we stopped working together. So I’m not in a hurry to work with that bastard and I’m sure he’s not in a f—ing hurry to work with me. But they didn’t tell me that they had made this decision. And there have also been some, shall we say, little business shenanigans, which have proved to be quite distressing, which I’m sorting out at the moment. It’s not been nice, and I didn’t expect it to be nice.

I don't really care what these business issues are, and it's none of my business, but I hope these don't affect the gigs.

condemnation wrote: New Order have released quite a few live videos and dvd's over the years, that's for sure. The only live audio is the BBC concert and the CD that comes with the boxset. Audio wise, it's not a great deal.

Unless of course you rip the audio off the DVDs. At least you can listen in the car that way.

The problem with the live stuff is that New Order have such a strange relationship with quality control. It's taken me a while to learn this---and it applies to virtually all groups---but rare doesn't necessarily equal good. The bonus disc with Glasgow was cool, but I actually keep revisiting the main concert disc more than the dodgy semi bootleg footage. The Glasgow show is just really well mixed and the band sound much better than on 511.

I'm sure they have some choice gigs with great audio and great performances. In some ways Bernard was a better singer in 83-84 than he was in 1985. Some of the live stuff from '85 that I've heard is ridiculous, almost piss takes. And the blame can be spread around. Never liked Hooky's sound on PFD. It really grates after a while, and is WAY louder than everything else bar Steve's snare drum.

Aries wrote:

condemnation wrote: New Order have released quite a few live videos and dvd's over the years, that's for sure. The only live audio is the BBC concert and the CD that comes with the boxset. Audio wise, it's not a great deal.

Unless of course you rip the audio off the DVDs. At least you can listen in the car that way.

At least we can do that now, in the 80's, it was taping from the video, onto cassette, which was terrible.

JV wrote: The problem with the live stuff is that New Order have such a strange relationship with quality control. It's taken me a while to learn this---and it applies to virtually all groups---but rare doesn't necessarily equal good. The bonus disc with Glasgow was cool, but I actually keep revisiting the main concert disc more than the dodgy semi bootleg footage. The Glasgow show is just really well mixed and the band sound much better than on 511.

I'm sure they have some choice gigs with great audio and great performances. In some ways Bernard was a better singer in 83-84 than he was in 1985. Some of the live stuff from '85 that I've heard is ridiculous, almost piss takes. And the blame can be spread around. Never liked Hooky's sound on PFD. It really grates after a while, and is WAY louder than everything else bar Steve's snare drum.

New Order, more so than other bands I think. A lot of the shows were hit and miss, that's why I liked collecting them, you never knew what toy were going to get, or what silly thing Bernard would say.

PFD isn't the best, the band weren't happy with that. Everything sounds really thin, apart from the drums. Both the guitars and the bass are grating.

condemnation wrote:

JV wrote: The problem with the live stuff is that New Order have such a strange relationship with quality control. It's taken me a while to learn this---and it applies to virtually all groups---but rare doesn't necessarily equal good. The bonus disc with Glasgow was cool, but I actually keep revisiting the main concert disc more than the dodgy semi bootleg footage. The Glasgow show is just really well mixed and the band sound much better than on 511.

I'm sure they have some choice gigs with great audio and great performances. In some ways Bernard was a better singer in 83-84 than he was in 1985. Some of the live stuff from '85 that I've heard is ridiculous, almost piss takes. And the blame can be spread around. Never liked Hooky's sound on PFD. It really grates after a while, and is WAY louder than everything else bar Steve's snare drum.

New Order, more so than other bands I think. A lot of the shows were hit and miss, that's why I liked collecting them, you never knew what toy were going to get, or what silly thing Bernard would say.

PFD isn't the best, the band weren't happy with that. Everything sounds really thin, apart from the drums. Both the guitars and the bass are grating.

There's that footage from Belgium on youtube that has similar problems. They were doing way too much cocaine in 1985. Live, it's the least dreamy sounding era for the band.

El Jarvo wrote:

Boatraceface wrote: Hello Hooky! Y'know,your Jack's grammar is always so much better than yours is.

First thing I thought!

Bleedin obvious! Proper sussed!

Hooky responds again.

Five wrote: Hooky responds again.

He spelled it Michael Schamberg...

JV wrote:

Five wrote: Hooky responds again.

He spelled it Michael Schamberg...

lol... no doubt prompted by here probably...

I've not been about for a couple of days and cor blimey.. NO is back NOOL is back... and a fired up JG is back too... Rock on.

http://consequenceofsound.net/2011/09/interview-peter-hook-of-joy-division-new-order/

....from page 2 of the interview

...The reason why I’m doing the Joy Division book is because I’m sick of everyone reading books about Joy Division by people who weren’t there and weren’t even close to us at all.

(Hmm...interesting....)

If you were to take something from this experience what would it be?

You see the problem that I had when the band split up was that I was an alcoholic. Because I was an alcoholic, I had no confidence. I was severely wounded in myself. I had no strength of character and wasn’t able to stand up to Bernard. I wasn’t able to stand up to Steve. I just couldn’t explain myself. It took me a long time to just…find myself. As corny as that sounds. However, when New Order split up I couldn’t explain to anybody why or what the problem was—now I can. It’s just too late isn’t it? But I’m happy now. The only thing that makes me unhappy is when they act in the deplorable fashion that they do now. It’s sad. It’s like children fighting in the playground. I must say that I am guilty as anybody. If I could change one thing I would change our relationship so that we could say to each other, “I’m going to do this… is that ok?” because if you have a discourse or a relationship… everything is much easier that way. If you just go about screaming at each other…it’s just going to lead to destruction. You begin to enjoy nothing. I’m happy New Order is playing because I always wanted New Order to play. It was me who protested “Let’s play! Let’s play!” for years and years…until I got fed up in saying it. So I wont be unhappy I just wish it was done in a more honorable fashion. That’s the painful bit. I would even pay to go see them play…because I love New Order.

What would bring that relationship back in New Order?

The thing is, I have the utmost respect for Bernard and Steve as musicians and I always have had. Gillian came in and she helped New Order but it was truly the three of us – Bernard, Steve, and myself – who were New Order. The thing is I respect their musicianship so much and the songs we created are the things that should break down any barriers. But, you can’t get through because there are a lot of people who have ulterior motives. You have a lot of management and agents who just can’t seem to handle it. Musicians are supposed to act like children, aren’t they? It’s in our breed to act like idiots. You know what I mean? So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big cane.

He gives the impression that Gillian's role in New Order somehow wasn't as valid as his, Stephen's and Bernard's. This suggests that she has returned to merely increase their percentage against his.

Andy wrote: He gives the impression that Gillian's role in New Order somehow wasn't as valid as his, Stephen's and Bernard's. This suggests that she has returned to merely increase their percentage against his.

When Gillian was a member of New Order before she left, she didn't just help; she was also a proper member too. I know I'm a younger fan, but I can see how she wasn't just helping the men in the band.

All these people talking about New Order's songwriting methods like experts. 'Gillian's a great programmer', 'Gillian added so much to New Order' etc etc etc....How does anybody know this? When have the band laid out their songwriting process in this amount of detail for people to make these statements? And ultimately, who gives a fuck?

If it's a choice between seeing Hooky stomp all over the stage and completely own it or watching Gillian mooch about looking sultry in the background I know what'll make for a more entertaining New Order experience. But it's not to be and we'll still have fun regardless happy with whoever's shown up to play for us. There's too much analysis, conjecture and thought going into something we should all just be enjoying.

GlasVegas wrote: All these people talking about New Order's songwriting methods like experts. 'Gillian's a great programmer', 'Gillian added so much to New Order' etc etc etc....How does anybody know this? When have the band laid out their songwriting process in this amount of detail for people to make these statements?

FWIW, I remember reading an long interview with her and Steve years ago (couldn't tell you the magazine) where the whole thing was a discussion of synth equipment and the two of them were just geeking out with the tech-speak. It wasn't just Steve talking with her nodding and giggling-- she was holding her own. That doesn't necessarily mean she was an equal 25% of the songwriting process, granted, but she wasn't just a hired hand told to 'press the third button from the right when I glare at you,' either. She knew what she was talking about (to the point where I kinda wished they'd brought in a translator).

God, when Bernard said Hooky didn't respect Gillian, he wasn't kidding, was he?

leather_girl wrote:

Andy wrote: He gives the impression that Gillian's role in New Order somehow wasn't as valid as his, Stephen's and Bernard's. This suggests that she has returned to merely increase their percentage against his.

When Gillian was a member of New Order before she left, she didn't just help; she was also a proper member too. I know I'm a younger fan, but I can see how she wasn't just helping the men in the band.

Right on Leather Girl.

Housey wrote:

GlasVegas wrote: All these people talking about New Order's songwriting methods like experts. 'Gillian's a great programmer', 'Gillian added so much to New Order' etc etc etc....How does anybody know this? When have the band laid out their songwriting process in this amount of detail for people to make these statements?

FWIW, I remember reading an long interview with her and Steve years ago (couldn't tell you the magazine) where the whole thing was a discussion of synth equipment and the two of them were just geeking out with the tech-speak. It wasn't just Steve talking with her nodding and giggling-- she was holding her own. That doesn't necessarily mean she was an equal 25% of the songwriting process, granted, but she wasn't just a hired hand told to 'press the third button from the right when I glare at you,' either. She knew what she was talking about (to the point where I kinda wished they'd brought in a translator).

God, when Bernard said Hooky didn't respect Gillian, he wasn't kidding, was he?

And I had always guessed from the early live videos that Bernard was impatient with Gillian! I bet that dynamic changed quickly once they started using the sequencers and she became more involved.

There's a Rapido clip from 1988/89 and it's Steve, Gillian, and Bernard talking about how rock music is redundant. Then there's a separate interview with Hooky talking about Joy Division, the JD legacy, and U2. For a casual interview, it oddly foreshadows the much deeper split, and Hooky's fixation with Joy Division's frozen in time nature.

well i usually only lurk on here these days but this has poked me from out from under my rock. the fact that gillian and hooky dont get on is nothing new really, i remember back in the eighties either gillian calling hooky a pig or at the very least hooky saying she thinks he is one. As for her role in new order? in my opinion without her they wouldnt have shined as brightly, yeah they would have been great ,but she added a different dynamic to the band that not many others had or have at present. the fact that shes back in the line-up now that hooky is gone is no suprise , i doubt she would have had he been in on the gigs. its all a shame really , id love to see what i would call "new order" ie ; barney, steve ,gillian and hooky, back on stage at least ,then we could see the ginger twat finally pushed into the orchestra pit,but i doubt it will ever happen.

Hooky wrote: So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big can[e].

GlasVegas wrote: All these people talking about New Order's songwriting methods like experts. 'Gillian's a great programmer', 'Gillian added so much to New Order' etc etc etc....How does anybody know this? When have the band laid out their songwriting process in this amount of detail for people to make these statements? And ultimately, who gives a fuck?

If it's a choice between seeing Hooky stomp all over the stage and completely own it or watching Gillian mooch about looking sultry in the background I know what'll make for a more entertaining New Order experience. But it's not to be and we'll still have fun regardless happy with whoever's shown up to play for us. There's too much analysis, conjecture and thought going into something we should all just be enjoying.

Have a look at this article:

True Faith

In particular the third paragraph under the heading Planning Vs Jamming. That'll give you some insight into Gillian's 'input'. As for Hooky stomping all over the stage, give me the reserved and detached early NO performances every time.

Rorschach wrote:

Hooky wrote: So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big can[e].

Post of the week

Elegia wrote:

Have a look at this article:

True Faith

"on 'True Faith' the low bass was programmed"

Wow

Rorschach wrote:

Hooky wrote: So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big can[e].

I was going to come on here to suggest we light some candles, grab hands and summon Mr. Gretton.

Housey wrote:

Rorschach wrote:

Hooky wrote: So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big can[e].

I was going to come on here to suggest we light some candles, grab hands and summon Mr. Gretton.

I agree this would be a good idea. They are, and always will be, a bunch of fucking retarded children. Without Gretton to kick them up the arse and call them as the cunts they most certainly are the current state of affairs is the inevitable result.

Plus, I'll do pretty much anything if it stops Colin banging on about Japanese fanny.

"I love Michael, he's a great friend. I think I've been elbowed out by the others because I learned about New Order's reunion when you learned about it. And that isn't strictly fair because I'm in a business partnership with them," Hook says. "But five years has given me a lot of time and space to reflect. If they want to carry on as New Order I can't stop them because there are more of them than me. And I'm actually quite happy for them. I'm sorry that I didn't know anything about the concert because I would've been delighted to do anything to help Michael."

Given the group's long history (Hook has known Sumner since they were 11), he talks about Joy Division as the best time of his music career. "We were equal in Joy Division, although it wasn't like that in New Order. We put in 25 percent four ways. Compared to everything else I've had in my entire career, Unknown Pleasures was very idealistic. When we got to Closer, it changed because of Ian's illness."

Maybe they would have invited Hooky back if it really was a one off to help an old friend and the reason he wasn't asked is because this is a full reunion which will lead to more shows next year and more new music down the line. The point being that they don't want him being any part of their future plans. Again,pure speculation on my part.

In recent interviews, Bernard has said that he doesn't think he could work with Hooky any more. So charity or not, I don't think Bernard would've tried to invite Hooky anyway. I'd rather see them work separately than be miserable together however.

Shug wrote:

GlasVegas wrote: There's too much analysis, conjecture and thought going into something we should all just be enjoying.

Amen brother

Wel said

Christ almighty, I knew that New Order weren't exactly the tallest of people but that Rob Gretton looks like he's about nine feet tall here.....

What about the Bad Lieutenant new album release? Will it be named a new New Order one?

NotAMod wrote:

What would bring that relationship back in New Order?

The thing is, I have the utmost respect for Bernard and Steve as musicians and I always have had. Gillian came in and she helped New Order but it was truly the three of us – Bernard, Steve, and myself – who were New Order. The thing is I respect their musicianship so much and the songs we created are the things that should break down any barriers. But, you can’t get through because there are a lot of people who have ulterior motives. You have a lot of management and agents who just can’t seem to handle it.

This basically means from Hooky's point of view that between 1981 and 1998 Gillian was not a member of the band as previously thought which quite frankly rocks the average fan's viewpoint. He's basically saying she "helped out" or was a hired hand rather than contributing anything meaningful as a fully fledged band member. Is this factually accurate? What does Steve think of this? Or Bernard? This is literally quite new to fans so the question remains why was nothing mentioned before?

Musicians are supposed to act like children, aren’t they? It’s in our breed to act like idiots. You know what I mean? So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big cane.

No they're fucking not, where is it written that musicians must act like arseholes and be whipped into shape by slightly more sensible people? This is a weak attempt at shifting responsibility for behaviour past and present. It's sad to read.

Without assigning blame it's obvious that Bernard, Stephen, Gillian and Hooky have over 30 years experience in the muso industry. They split up once before for over five years before coming back together in a very enthusiastic manner. Saying "I behaved liked a child" and demanding an adult come into clean it up just sound like a cop out...

I'm a huge fan of Hooky as much as the others, always have been and always will be but it's just bizarre to read all this.

I always thought much of Technique... (and loads of the good bits) were created in happiness by Gillian and Steve on their Mac (see RnR, Mr Disco, Vanishing Point and Dream Attack), when the band functioned as a four piece. Trouble is much of Republic was cobbled together by those two when no-one else would talk to each other.

You look at the interview posted elsewhere with Stephen Hague re: Toothache and she appears to have been the most organised and useful of the lot of them.

Tis dead weird seeing Mr H virtually put her down as being the tea-maker.

When i went to Reading in 98, and to a gig or two before, i was astonished how much work Gillian has done in reviving old songs e.g. Isolation, Heart and Soul etc. If she's done the same pre latest gigs, we might be in for a treat.

From that recent statement by Hooky and a recent interview with Gillian saying that Hooky is being "horrible", one can assume that the relationship between Hooky and Gillian & Steve is very bad right now. For years? Who knows.

So did Bernard, Steve and Gillian change her status recently as far as legal rights in the group, so Hooky went from 33% share to 25% share of New Order? Did Gillian not have a full share in the past? All part of the chess game I suppose.

Burt Burterson wrote:

NotAMod wrote:

What would bring that relationship back in New Order?

The thing is, I have the utmost respect for Bernard and Steve as musicians and I always have had. Gillian came in and she helped New Order but it was truly the three of us – Bernard, Steve, and myself – who were New Order. The thing is I respect their musicianship so much and the songs we created are the things that should break down any barriers. But, you can’t get through because there are a lot of people who have ulterior motives. You have a lot of management and agents who just can’t seem to handle it.

This basically means from Hooky's point of view that between 1981 and 1998 Gillian was not a member of the band as previously thought which quite frankly rocks the average fan's viewpoint. He's basically saying she "helped out" or was a hired hand rather than contributing anything meaningful as a fully fledged band member. Is this factually accurate? What does Steve think of this? Or Bernard? This is literally quite new to fans so the question remains why was nothing mentioned before?

Musicians are supposed to act like children, aren’t they? It’s in our breed to act like idiots. You know what I mean? So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big cane.

No they're fucking not, where is it written that musicians must act like arseholes and be whipped into shape by slightly more sensible people? This is a weak attempt at shifting responsibility for behaviour past and present. It's sad to read.

Without assigning blame it's obvious that Bernard, Stephen, Gillian and Hooky have over 30 years experience in the muso industry. They split up once before for over five years before coming back together in a very enthusiastic manner. Saying "I behaved liked a child" and demanding an adult come into clean it up just sound like a cop out...

I'm a huge fan of Hooky as much as the others, always have been and always will be but it's just bizarre to read all this.

I always thought much of Technique... (and loads of the good bits) were created in happiness by Gillian and Steve on their Mac (see RnR, Mr Disco, Vanishing Point and Dream Attack), when the band functioned as a four piece. Trouble is much of Republic was cobbled together by those two when no-one else would talk to each other.

You look at the interview posted elsewhere with Stephen Hague re: Toothache and she appears to have been the most organised and useful of the lot of them.

Tis dead weird seeing Mr H virtually put her down as being the tea-maker.

When i went to Reading in 98, and to a gig or two before, i was astonished how much work Gillian has done in reviving old songs e.g. Isolation, Heart and Soul etc. If she's done the same pre latest gigs, we might be in for a treat.

Generally agree about Gillian's increased involvement, especially around the time of Technique. Bernard did say of Mr Disco that it was his attempted aim at 'the chicken in the basket set'.

It actually would've been interesting to hear how the dual guitar sound of 'All The Way', 'Love Less', and 'Run' would've evolved had they not largely abandoned that approach on Republic. I think by Technique Gillian was playing most of her own guitar parts on the record, whereas she didn't play much guitar on the first three albums.

The most telling thing about Hooky's spate of interviews is that he never got over the break up of Joy Division. I know he says he loves what New Order did, but he doesn't speak anymore about how great the New Order song catalogue is. I think that outlook contributes to some (American) attitudes that New Order is some (31 year!) afterthought to Joy Division.

I know people might say, 'stop analysing' but I can't help thinking when certain people say things like this in interviews.

From what I've heard and read about New Order, Gillian was a full member of New Order when she was in the band, right? I may be misinterpreting his words, but Hooky's bit in that interview does make it sound like he thinks that she was just a 'helper' or a supporting member instead of an actual contributing full member. I find this odd because, like others have said, I've never heard of that regarding Gillian before. Maybe on some songs she did more work than on other songs. But surely when she was in the band over those years, she did more than just help out?

Actually, come to think of it, Thieves Like Us like us may be Gillian's first major songwriting credit. I really can't imagine Bernard and Steve sorting out all her synth parts for her in the studio. It's a simple song, but the orchestration paved the way for The Perfect Kiss, Subculture, Bizarre Love Triangle, etc.

leather_girl wrote: I know people might say, 'stop analysing' but I can't help thinking when certain people say things like this in interviews.

From what I've heard and read about New Order, Gillian was a full member of New Order when she was in the band, right? I may be misinterpreting his words, but Hooky's bit in that interview does make it sound like he thinks that she was just a 'helper' or a supporting member instead of an actual contributing full member. I find this odd because, like others have said, I've never heard of that regarding Gillian before. Maybe on some songs she did more work than on other songs. But surely when she was in the band over those years, she did more than just help out?

People also have to keep in mind, that when you are angry, you can quite often say things that you don't mean, with full intent of your comments being aimed at a particular person. We've all done it before, and being in the public eye, quoting things in interviews about others, it's something that you may live to regret in the future.

This is a private matter, being made public. Does it really matter to New Order fans what share Gillian's is in New Order. I also knew her guitar playing wasn't great, but I never thought any less of her. This also relates to people coming on here and saying "Hooky's bass playing was shit and any one can do it" blah blah. Either way, I don't get it.

You look up BL live on Youtube, Ceremony, Temptation, BLT, Atmosphere, whatever, that's how it's going to be when New Order play, and Gillian standing at the keyboards instead of Phil and 5 times the amount of people, because the gig is being done under New Order not BL.

Burt Burterson wrote: Trouble is much of Republic was cobbled together by those two when no-one else would talk to each other.

Is that really the case?

I remember in the Mojo interview when Get Ready was released, Sumner indicated that all the others absented themselves for large parts of the recording of Republic, and that he was climbing up the studio walls, desperate for the others to help out.

Tony Casanova wrote:

Burt Burterson wrote: Trouble is much of Republic was cobbled together by those two when no-one else would talk to each other.

Is that really the case?

I remember in the Mojo interview when Get Ready was released, Sumner indicated that all the others absented themselves for large parts of the recording of Republic, and that he was climbing up the studio walls, desperate for the others to help out.

Hooky said they were recording Republic separately, that is, one is in, the others are out. I guess much like the White Album :)

JV wrote: Actually, come to think of it, Thieves Like Us like us may be Gillian's first major songwriting credit. I really can't imagine Bernard and Steve sorting out all her synth parts for her in the studio. It's a simple song, but the orchestration paved the way for The Perfect Kiss, Subculture, Bizarre Love Triangle, etc.

When World in Motion was released, Bernard stated that Gillian had written the music (it was derived from the Reportage theme music - credited to Gillian and Stephen) and he felt that was the way things were headed.

Lurker alert:

Hooky's San Francisco Examiner Interview

Andy wrote:

JV wrote: Actually, come to think of it, Thieves Like Us like us may be Gillian's first major songwriting credit. I really can't imagine Bernard and Steve sorting out all her synth parts for her in the studio. It's a simple song, but the orchestration paved the way for The Perfect Kiss, Subculture, Bizarre Love Triangle, etc.

When World in Motion was released, Bernard stated that Gillian had written the music (it was derived from the Reportage theme music - credited to Gillian and Stephen) and he felt that was the way things were headed.

New Order were a fantastic collection: Gillian and Steve were really into pure pop exploitations; Hooky's all into edgy post-punk and Bernard was a great melody maker... They were great when they had to balance these different approaches... that's what made them so great. Once apart, the magic just isn't the same.

Actually, come to think of it, Thieves Like Us like us may be Gillian's first major songwriting credit. I really can't imagine Bernard and Steve sorting out all her synth parts for her in the studio. It's a simple song, but the orchestration paved the way for The Perfect Kiss, Subculture, Bizarre Love Triangle, etc.

They all jammed that out in Arthur Baker's studio while they were also recording Confusion. Later on it was arranged and re-recorded back in the UK.

Ok, so in the SF examiner interview Hooky says this:

"So last week, it was jumped on me about New Order reforming, and what they’ve also tried to do is get me out of the company. I’m not bothered about them getting back together. But I do have rights to the name New Order, and what they’ve done is diminish my rights in a boardroom shuffle while I was away DJing in China. And what bothered me was the surreptitious and frankly disgusting, underhanded way they went about it"

Interesting.

"So the decision for “New Order” — and I’ll use the term in brackets — is whether they emulate my bass or get rid of it, like they did in Bad Lieutenant, when they dropped my bass sound on New Order songs and played the parts on keyboards."

Huh! No, they got a bass player to play them, odd.

"Well, the strange thing is, I was reading the band’s online forum — as you do when you want to revel in your misery"

See, even he's unhappy about it.

Theres no winners in all this.

Gene wrote: "Well, the strange thing is, I was reading the band’s online forum — as you do when you want to revel in your misery"

Oh no... NOOL's gotten absolutely anti-Hooky lately... Timing cannot be more perfect to read us, miserable fans here :(

Sorry, another interview spam .

http://www.avclub.com/denver/articles/peter-hook,61360/

Not being anti Bernard here, but that is what I was referring to when I said that Hooky was compelled to leave the band.

I realized that in New Order, Bernard managed to stop us doing virtually anything. We literally weren’t working very much.

That is what Hooky said basically back in May 2007.

BTW, Karina, thanks for the link!

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Not being anti Bernard here, but that is what I was referring to when I said that Hooky was compelled to leave the band.

I realized that in New Order, Bernard managed to stop us doing virtually anything. We literally weren’t working very much.

That is what Hooky said basically back in May 2007.

BTW, Karina, thanks for the link!

Er, that's my Twitter username but you are welcome.

That bit is interesting, too:

As soon as we split up, Bernard and I were slagging each other off royally in the press. It had to stop. We actually made an agreement to stop it. Everyone was getting upset. Our fans were getting upset, our management was getting upset, everyone. We made a deal to stop it. Then, when he started Bad Lieutenant, he started it back up again. So I phoned him up, and I went, “Hang on, I thought we had a deal that we weren’t going to do this.” He went, “Deal’s off.” I said, “Right. Fuck you, then.” We went straight back at it, and it’s been like that ever since.

It feels like New Order members have given more interviews this year alone than throughout their entire life. Not that it's bad, though.

well we cant complain can we, weve got hooky playing a lot of the joy division stuff live and loving it, and we have new order gigs upcoming which i seriously doubt will be anything but good. plus the possibilty of more, i know we would all love to see them a big happy family once again but maybe NOW isnt the time, at least theres hope id say. on a side note i never knew that hooky had bouts of alchoholism,and if it is the case, he is far better off being in the place he is, doing what he wants and needs too rather than being in a stressfull situation. ggod luck to all of em :)

Gene wrote: "Well, the strange thing is, I was reading the band’s online forum — as you do when you want to revel in your misery"

Not a lot of sympathy here, I'm afraid. This place is a fan site, and it is saddening to hear that he chooses to read it all, but then it's been brewing since the 3 year+ wait for the Freebass debacle, and the subsequent touring with the Light, which many here see as the cheapening of a legacy.

I think that Hooky's biggest problem right now, is his willingness to speak to anyone. He should take a leaf out of Barney's book and talk far more selectively, cos unfortunately he seems to dig himself deeper each time.

He also needs someone to read his statements before he releases them.

Burt Burterson wrote:

Not a lot of sympathy here, I'm afraid. This place is a fan site, and it is saddening to hear that he chooses to read it all, but then it's been brewing since the 3 year+ wait for the Freebass debacle, and the subsequent touring with the Light, which many here see as the cheapening of a legacy.

I think that Hooky's biggest problem right now, is his willingness to speak to anyone. He should take a leaf out of Barney's book and talk far more selectively, cos unfortunately he seems to dig himself deeper each time.

He also needs someone to read his statements before he releases them.

I really dont think Hooky needs any advice from you mate, you sound like a right miserable, self important, nerd. If you dont like it listen to something else. Same goes for quite a few others on here.

Hookys recent career doesnt really appeal to me either so I'm not following it. And that is all I have to say about it. To be honest, he's probably not interested in my career either. And I dont blame him.

NotAMod wrote:

We're at the point of where it's obvious they'll do what they want to do; Hooky's content doing The Light and the other three are doing New Order. Leave 'em to it

I agree totally but I was still surprised by the apathy towards a New Order gig without Hookys bass. It will sound like Bad Loo. Unless this new kid sets up to sound like Hooky in which case he may as well get a T-shirt that says 'doormat' on it.

Gene wrote:

NotAMod wrote:

We're at the point of where it's obvious they'll do what they want to do; Hooky's content doing The Light and the other three are doing New Order. Leave 'em to it

I agree totally but I was still surprised by the apathy towards a New Order gig without Hookys bass. It will sound like Bad Loo. Unless this new kid sets up to sound like Hooky in which case he may as well get a T-shirt that says 'doormat' on it.

I don't know which forums you've been reading but I'd say that the response has been pretty positive to new New Order. Certainly on here public opinion seems to be towards them. And both shows selling out within half an hour doesn't suggest 'apathy'.

I am pretty excited about seeing them,have never been so looking forward to a trip to Brussels! But I don't like the way Hooky is out in the cold even though I know people can say he left of his own free will etc.. I just thinks it's a shame that he won't be on stage at both gigs.

Skullcrushed wrote:

I don't know which forums you've been reading but I'd say that the response has been pretty positive to new New Order. Certainly on here public opinion seems to be towards them. And both shows selling out within half an hour doesn't suggest 'apathy'.

Perhaps apathy wasnt the right word, more 'indifference' then. Y'know, as if the sound Hooky makes doesnt really matter to the New Order sound. Theres plenty other bands where the bass sounds really bog-standard and changing players round doesnt affect it but I think with NO/JD that just aint so.

Although, yeah, its all over now and we wish them all well etc, and even though I know it was his choice to leave the band I didnt expect the majority to accept that New Order doing Blue Monday without Hooky wouldnt seem strange.

But what the fuck do I know? Fuck all. Including, apparently, the correct use for the word 'apathy'.

Nostradamus wrote:

I really dont think Hooky needs any advice from you mate, you sound like a right miserable, self important, nerd. If you dont like it listen to something else. Same goes for quite a few others on here.

I couldn't get through it once, so binned it. Another new August login. Good stuff. Give him my regards.

Gene wrote: Perhaps apathy wasnt the right word, more 'indifference' then. Y'know, as if the sound Hooky makes doesnt really matter to the New Order sound. Theres plenty other bands where the bass sounds really bog-standard and changing players round doesnt affect it but I think with NO/JD that just aint so.

Although, yeah, its all over now and we wish them all well etc, and even though I know it was his choice to leave the band I didnt expect the majority to accept that New Order doing Blue Monday without Hooky wouldnt seem strange.

But what the fuck do I know? Fuck all. Including, apparently, the correct use for the word 'apathy'.

I did note that when the Guardian ran a story on all this last week there were only 11 comments on it which I guess could suggest apathy among the wider public even though that was just one newspaper... Also, maybe Hooky would have been better off just releasing a single terse statement on the matter and left it at that but that is easy to say when looking at it from the outside as we here all are..

cranelane wrote: I did note that when the Guardian ran a story on all this last week there were only 11 comments on it which I guess could suggest apathy among the wider public even though that was just one newspaper... Also, maybe Hooky would have been better off just releasing a single terse statement on the matter and left it at that but that is easy to say when looking at it from the outside as we here all are..

Oodles of comments on this story, though, from the same paper just a couple of months ago:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/14/new-order-split-peter-hook?CMP=twt_gu

Reading them at the time, I was rather pleased to see the affection that still exists for the band, even outside the NOOL bubble.

Otherwise, I couldn't agree more about the benefits of underexposure! If there had been one big blow-out in 2007 and then silence, followed by announcements from both camps in 2011, then it would have been a bigger story.

El Jarvo wrote:

Tony Casanova wrote: Oodles of comments on this story, though, from the same paper just a couple of months ago:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/14/new-order-split-peter-hook?CMP=twt_gu

Reading them at the time, I was rather pleased to see the affection that still exists for the band, even outside the NOOL bubble.

Jezus wept.

There's more shit written amongst those comments than you get on here.

And that's saying summat.

Entertaining reading though.

.

You must have pretty high standards! Me, I've had to lower mine progressively ever since Al Gore invented the interwebs. I do think the ratio of good:shit comments under the line is higher than any other paper's. The comments on the guardian's football blogs are always good fun.

"The dustbin of the Internet" indeed

Tony Casanova wrote: ... ever since Al Gore invented the interwebs.

????

James Thomas wrote:

Tony Casanova wrote: ... ever since Al Gore invented the interwebs.

????

Al Gore was a 20th century American politician who claimed he helped invent the Internet.

By "the interwebs", the poster meant the Internet, that's my understanding.

Gene wrote:

Skullcrushed wrote:

I don't know which forums you've been reading but I'd say that the response has been pretty positive to new New Order. Certainly on here public opinion seems to be towards them. And both shows selling out within half an hour doesn't suggest 'apathy'.

Perhaps apathy wasnt the right word, more 'indifference' then. Y'know, as if the sound Hooky makes doesnt really matter to the New Order sound. Theres plenty other bands where the bass sounds really bog-standard and changing players round doesnt affect it but I think with NO/JD that just aint so.

Although, yeah, its all over now and we wish them all well etc, and even though I know it was his choice to leave the band I didnt expect the majority to accept that New Order doing Blue Monday without Hooky wouldnt seem strange.

But what the fuck do I know? Fuck all. Including, apparently, the correct use for the word 'apathy'.

New Order without Hooky continues being New Order but not the same band.

He deserves my respect - "GODBASS"

everyoneverywhere wrote: "The dustbin of the Internet" indeed

Not really, no. That would be the comments on You Tube: "If u like thiz song u r gay" And so forth. Arguably more readable than a Paul Morley tract, though .

Tony Casanova wrote:

everyoneverywhere wrote: "The dustbin of the Internet" indeed

Not really, no. That would be the comments on You Tube: "If u like thiz song u r gay" And so forth. Arguably more readable than a Paul Morley tract, though .

Put it this way, even Jade fookin' Goody's memoirs are more readable than Paul fookin' pretentious pillock Morley's inane ramblings....

:p

Been out tonight but no sign of Bernard, will keep my eyes peeled over the next few weeks because I want to know the following - is this going to continue ie new material and Uk (and US) gigs?

Lots of people have views in our village but want to hear it from the horses mouth!!

BTW - Jake Evans ( Bad L) has another band called Orbit I think.

This is Hooky's best response for the bastards