Merchandise at The Light shows ... is it poor taste?

NotAMod wrote:

The Paradise Man wrote: As for Hooky leaving the band.... If my memory serves me well didn't Bernard walk out of New Order in 1989 to record as Electronic? No one knew then if they would ever get back together.

That's reaching, and you know it. There's a big difference between band members going off and doing their own thing after an album next to going to the press and unilaterally announcing that the band are no more when the other band members supposedly (going by their press statement) had not been consulted in advance.

What happened in 1989/1993 and 2006 is completely different. Even throughout the nineties each member of New Order (including Hooky) refrained from commenting too specifically on New Order's future. The most common quote was "we have no plans to record together in the forseeable" which does not equal "New Order are finished".

What? You think New Order are finished? Rubbish, they will be gigging in 10 years time, promoting the newly digitally remastered boxset of the day.

The Paradise Man wrote: If my memory serves me well didn't Bernard walk out of New Order in 1989 to record as Electronic? No one knew then if they would ever get back together.

Nobody ever walked out of New Order back in 1989, they just concentrated on their solo projects...

Nobody ever said "New Order have split" or "New Order are no more"...

The Paradise Man wrote: What? You think New Order are finished? Rubbish, they will be gigging in 10 years time, promoting the newly digitally remastered boxset of the day.

With what has recently happened, I doubt it, especially as they'll be in their 60's by then - maybe in wheelchairs?

Having said that, I doubt people would have expected to see Pink Floyd and Roger Waters together again, but in this case a LOT of personal insults will have to had time to heal, and I don't think that's likely this late in their careers...

Nick King wrote:

The Paradise Man wrote: What? You think New Order are finished? Rubbish, they will be gigging in 10 years time, promoting the newly digitally remastered boxset of the day.

With what has recently happened, I doubt it, especially as they'll be in their 60's by then - maybe in wheelchairs?

Having said that, I doubt people would have expected to see Pink Floyd and Roger Waters together again, but in this case a LOT of personal insults will have to had time to heal, and I don't think that's likely this late in their careers...

Exactly, I was thinking of the Floyd when I wrote that. They got very personal with each other and now have mellowed considerably.

The Paradise Man wrote:

Nick King wrote:

The Paradise Man wrote: What? You think New Order are finished? Rubbish, they will be gigging in 10 years time, promoting the newly digitally remastered boxset of the day.

With what has recently happened, I doubt it, especially as they'll be in their 60's by then - maybe in wheelchairs?

Having said that, I doubt people would have expected to see Pink Floyd and Roger Waters together again, but in this case a LOT of personal insults will have to had time to heal, and I don't think that's likely this late in their careers...

Exactly, I was thinking of the Floyd when I wrote that. They got very personal with each other and now have mellowed considerably.

Personally, I hope they do, but unfortunately, I doubt it... :(

NotAMod wrote:

The Paradise Man wrote: What? You think New Order are finished? Rubbish, they will be gigging in 10 years time, promoting the newly digitally remastered boxset of the day.

You've veered away from what I asked. Do you have an opinion of that original "split" decision by Hooky in 2007 and how he went about it? You've already said you don't like the fact Bernard and Stephen are doing gigs without asking him (admittedly, it sits a little uneasy with me too) but how did you react to Hooky going to press all those years ago and folding the band without telling them?

Those two decisions seem to be interlinked to me. You can't slag one without the other. It's like slagging off a neighbour to fuck for years and then moaning when you don't get an invite to the neighbourhood barbecue.

You keep editing your posts mate! My opinion is that he left the band and that was sad. He had his reasons. Maybe it was easier to finish it via the press? They obviously fell out big time. Maybe he couldn't speak one on one to the controlling perfectionist bass hating wanker any longer

NotAMod wrote: I did edit my post because I thought that this was leading nowhere, really. No point on confrontation for the sake of it.

The Paradise Man wrote: Maybe he couldn't speak one on one to the controlling perfectionist bass hating wanker any longer

And there we have your opinion :) wasn't so tough was it?

Are you an unemployed News of The World journo? 'Infamy infamy they've got it in for me!'

There we go. The f word in all it's glory. Fair play guys. We're all friends together aren't we? :\ohwell:

NotAMod wrote: You started it :p

But yes, you're absolutely right. Nothing to be gained from bickering so let's just leave it there. Surprisingly, you'd probably find you and I have a great deal in common when it comes to seeing both Barney and Hooky burying the hatchet. Of course as a fan I'd love to see them at least friends in future.

Music notwithstanding.

Peace.

Well quite. Surface started it I think you'll find with his t-shirt profit remark earlier in the thread. Anyway, are you going to the gigs? Or are you firmly in the Hooky camp and attending his Lowry gigs?

El Jarvo wrote:

The Paradise Man wrote: You know me too well. Yes and yes. New Order died in 1993, I've said this elsewhere.

What was wrong with the 1998 gigs?

Nothing they were great and a ray of hope was cast. I was referring to recorded output with Gillian. The live experience from 2001 onwards was very different and in my opinion not quite as magical.

El Jarvo wrote:

The Paradise Man wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

The Paradise Man wrote: You know me too well. Yes and yes. New Order died in 1993, I've said this elsewhere.

What was wrong with the 1998 gigs?

Nothing they were great and a ray of hope was cast. I was referring to recorded output with Gillian. The live experience from 2001 onwards was very different and in my opinion not quite as magical.

Not quite as magical ... because Gillian was missing?

You do know she's back now. Woohoo!

Yes but an even more important member is missing. New Order without Hooky..... Doesn't bear thinking about!

NotAMod wrote: You've veered away from what I asked. Do you have an opinion of that original "split" decision by Hooky in 2007 and how he went about it? You've already said you don't like the fact Bernard and Stephen are doing gigs without asking him (admittedly, it sits a little uneasy with me too) but how did you react to Hooky going to press all those years ago and folding the band without telling them?

Those two decisions seem to be interlinked to me. You can't slag one without the other. It's like slagging off a neighbour to fuck for years and then moaning when you don't get an invite to the neighbourhood barbecue.

Yes but going by that analogy you're going to feel a tad peeved about not getting a courtesy invite,considering some of the sausages on that barbecue are yours.Tricky one.

NotAMod wrote: Similarly, I think the original point of this thread whinging about T shirt merchandise sales is pretty redundant... who gives a shit?

Evidently this guy does.

As for my opinion...I don't really care much about the shirts at this point. I just don't like the idea of artists touring an entire album (usually older albums), so I'm not interested in The Light (or Primal Scream playing Screamadelica as well). About the 'split', I don't really consider the 2007 situation as a split even though the results may have been the same (in other words, New Order not continuing). It was very clear that Hooky had left the band, and the other members (Bernard, Steve, Phil) weren't falling out with each other, and they wanted to continue making music somehow. It was obviously not a situation of the four of them discussing that they should end the band.

Musically, I have my preferences. I like many JD songs, but I like more New Order songs. I like some Monaco songs, but I like more Electronic songs. I like a few Revenge songs, but I like more BL songs. But I still think Hooky is a great bassist. I don't really agree with Hooky's opinions regarding illegal downloads and the music business; I admit he has a point, but I don't think it's the number one reason for artists not selling as many CDs any more. I can certainly see how people think he is cashing in on the past about these JD (and now maybe New Order album tours) album tours; I think it's clear he wants to focus on that instead of making new music for whatever reason. It's unfortunate, but I suppose that's his decision. (I'm hoping Primal Scream might make new music after this Screamadelica tour situation though.) I also don't quite understand his comments regarding Gillian's role in the band in his recent interviews, to be honest.

I can't really comment on the personal issues/arguments about the band members but you know, that is life. It's just I don't have this nostalgic romanticism towards Joy Division, so I don't get as sentimental as Hooky does. Neither do I romanticise people who died young, like some Joy Division fans seem to do. But even if Hooky toured NO albums, I still wouldn't be interested because when I go to a concert, I want to hear a mix of old and new (unless they've just reformed and haven't written new music); not an entire older album. And although I liked some songs he did vocals on in Monaco songs ('WDYWFM', 'Black Rain' etc...) I don't really feel the need to want to listen to a bunch of NO songs with Hooky on vocals.

Sorry for the long post (and I know I haven't said much about the shirts).

Aww Moz the impeccable integrity icon. Anyway what's precisely the problem? The fact that there are t-shirts for sale or the fact that they're ugly? Don't know why anybody would mind the fact that there is merchandise sold at gigs, people like to take something home from gigs as they make a nice reminder, especially the designs with tourdates on. I remember being so pissed of when there was no NO merchandise in Turin that I went and bought an Inspector Muttley tee from a stall (and two sizes too small at that) because those were the only tees on sale. If the problem is of aestehtic nature then yes, those look really ugly.

El Jarvo wrote:

The Paradise Man wrote: You know me too well. Yes and yes. New Order died in 1993, I've said this elsewhere.

What was wrong with the 1998 gigs?

If New Order never reformed, a great deal of fans (including myself) would never have seen them play live.

Eh, all I said was I didn't think it was right selling JD T shirts when he is playing with the light. On another note I saw Bernards wife pulled up at the traffic lights yeaterday. I was about to ask her of any news on the set list and the bloody lights changed!

The Paradise Man wrote:

NotAMod wrote: You started it :p

But yes, you're absolutely right. Nothing to be gained from bickering so let's just leave it there. Surprisingly, you'd probably find you and I have a great deal in common when it comes to seeing both Barney and Hooky burying the hatchet. Of course as a fan I'd love to see them at least friends in future.

Music notwithstanding.

Peace.

Well quite. Surface started it I think you'll find with his t-shirt profit remark earlier in the thread. Anyway, are you going to the gigs? Or are you firmly in the Hooky camp and attending his Lowry gigs?

It was the Ian Curtis soap on a rope tht I draw the line at.

I find it amazing that anyone can make sweeping judgements about a persons character based on press reports, hearsay and just plain guessing.

We don't know any of the band personally and we don't know the full story behind any of this.

Julijana Zitnjak wrote: Aww Moz the impeccable integrity icon.

Fucking T-shirts thread

Gene wrote:

Julijana Zitnjak wrote: Aww Moz the impeccable integrity icon.

Fucking T-shirts thread

It's all getting 'stalkerish'!

The T-Shirts do indeed show poor taste. After all the work Peter Saville has put in over the years, with great designs and aesthetic, these shirts are just utter rubbish (design-wise) and they take a big dump on that.