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Sabotage Times
PART 1: http://www.sabotagetimes.com/music/ch-ch-ch-changes-from-joy-division-to-new-order-to-now-exclusive/
PART 2: http://www.sabotagetimes.com/music/ch-ch-ch-changes-from-joy-division-to-new-order-to-now-part-2/
Stephen: We had 5 songs including Ceremony and In A Lonely Place; we had Homage, Truth and maybe another one.
Bernard: We had a song called ‘Homage’? [groans]
Stephen: Yeah.
It's interesting that Bernard mentions the Tube stop where Corbijn shot that iconic Joy Division photo. I had always believed that Anton had wanted to keep that a secret.
-Mike
Starting to get really pissed off with Bernard's attitude to the Movement era. Clearly being in a band that played tight, intense and moving (no pun intended) music with no showbiz crap piled on top doesn't suit his 'muso' persona nowadays.
The fact he can't even remember writing such an intensely personal song as 'Homage' just sums it up for me. I used to think he was joking when he claimed not to remember ever having heard of 'Procession' but now I'm not so sure. He's probably airbrushed it out of history as it's an awkward reminder of when he wasn't embarassing.
jamie fairlie wrote: Starting to get really pissed off with Bernard's attitude to the Movement era. Clearly being in a band that played tight, intense and moving (no pun intended) music with no showbiz crap piled on top doesn't suit his 'muso' persona nowadays.
The fact he can't even remember writing such an intensely personal song as 'Homage' just sums it up for me. I used to think he was joking when he claimed not to remember ever having heard of 'Procession' but now I'm not so sure. He's probably airbrushed it out of history as it's an awkward reminder of when he wasn't embarassing.
Movement is there worst album. It's an album of good aural ideas as opposed to actual songs. It's not hard to understand why Bernard, Steve, and Gillian regard it among thier lesser efforts.
That being said, there are a couple of songs on it I enjoy quite a bit.
It depends on what you think New Order are and what they stand for, and that depends, to a large extent, on when you were first introduced to them and in what context. For me, a dedicated JD fan when IC died, the 81-83 NO are them at their peak, with Movement & PCL (plus the singles) making a body of work that they never came close to equalling. Compare NO live in 81 to them live in 85/86, almost like two completely different bands.
If I were Bernard I would thank my lucky stars I don't have to give a toss about Movement. Most bands have a long decline after their debut LP. For New Order, you could argue it was the opposite, at least through Technique.
Granted, it's special circumstances because of Joy Division. But I think Movement is more important for what it said/achieved than what it actually sounds like.
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http://www.sabotagetimes.com/music/ch-ch-ch-changes-from-joy-division-to-new-order-to-now-exclusive/
Stephen: We had 5 songs including Ceremony and In A Lonely Place; we had Homage, Truth and maybe another one.
Bernard: We had a song called ‘Homage’? [groans]
Stephen: Yeah.
But Draculas Castle is fine 
jamie fairlie wrote: Starting to get really pissed off with Bernard's attitude to the Movement era. Clearly being in a band that played tight, intense and moving (no pun intended) music with no showbiz crap piled on top doesn't suit his 'muso' persona nowadays.
The fact he can't even remember writing such an intensely personal song as 'Homage' just sums it up for me. I used to think he was joking when he claimed not to remember ever having heard of 'Procession' but now I'm not so sure. He's probably airbrushed it out of history as it's an awkward reminder of when he wasn't embarassing.
oh please.
consider how many songs he has penned in his lifetime, and consider his mental state in 1980-81 - and you are SO UPSET that he doesn't remember details about a few songs from that era, from 30 friggin years ago...
really, THAT is all you took from the interview?
well, then don't you worry, because tickets to see a joy division cover band, who will be covering those old Movement songs note-for-note in 2012, will be available soon... enjoy!
Tarbox23 wrote:
jamie fairlie wrote: Starting to get really pissed off with Bernard's attitude to the Movement era. Clearly being in a band that played tight, intense and moving (no pun intended) music with no showbiz crap piled on top doesn't suit his 'muso' persona nowadays.
The fact he can't even remember writing such an intensely personal song as 'Homage' just sums it up for me. I used to think he was joking when he claimed not to remember ever having heard of 'Procession' but now I'm not so sure. He's probably airbrushed it out of history as it's an awkward reminder of when he wasn't embarassing.
oh please.
consider how many songs he has penned in his lifetime, and consider his mental state in 1980-81 - and you are SO UPSET that he doesn't remember details about a few songs from that era, from 30 friggin years ago...
really, THAT is all you took from the interview?
well, then don't you worry, because tickets to see a joy division cover band, who will be covering those old Movement songs note-for-note in 2012, will be available soon... enjoy!
In Brussels he had problems even remembering the lyrics for Crystal without looking at the screen... In Paris he spent lots of time looking down for lyrics. Does not surprise me he doesn't remember Homage, assuming also that he always said Movement was not a good album for him.
That being said, it's one of my all-time favourite albums. :)
jamie fairlie wrote: Starting to get really pissed off with Bernard's attitude to the Movement era...
....The fact he can't even remember writing such an intensely personal song as 'Homage' just sums it up for me.
'Homage' was never properly completed nor officially released so I'm not surprised he can't remember it. The demo on the Western Works boot is interesting in a record collector kind of way but your average fan would never know it existed without serious digging.
I think Bernard's on record as not liking Movement, it's not really new news. He famously said in that 1999 Uncut magazine interview that he doesn't even own a copy. He seems very fond of the singles which immediately followed like Everything's Gone Green and Temptation though.
I've also found it a difficult album to like and maybe you did have to be there at the time but it's hard to see it as a high point of their career. Dreams Never End is a brilliant track, one of their very finest but the rest is a bit... meh. I think the "New Order" of most people's minds took shape in the non-album tracks and b-sides they did around that period rather than Movement "the album". Then PC&L arrived and it sounded like a brand new band.
But as always, taste is subjective. I've noticed some fans can be very protective of Movement, no doubt some personal memories attached and nothing wrong with that...
One of my favourite listening pleasures is ICB from The Peel sessions. Strip the drug influenced over production shit away and what you are left with is an almighty track. Same with Truth and Senses. In fact the whole god damn album is superb.
jamie fairlie wrote: Starting to get really pissed off with Bernard's attitude to the Movement era. Clearly being in a band that played tight, intense and moving (no pun intended) music with no showbiz crap piled on top doesn't suit his 'muso' persona nowadays.
The fact he can't even remember writing such an intensely personal song as 'Homage' just sums it up for me. I used to think he was joking when he claimed not to remember ever having heard of 'Procession' but now I'm not so sure. He's probably airbrushed it out of history as it's an awkward reminder of when he wasn't embarassing.
I think Bernard has always said that he disliked the depressing Hannett production of Movement, and that he feels uncomfortable about his early stages as a songwriter and vocalist. Probably was a difficult time for him trying to replace Ian until he found his own his own identity. That said, he has nothing to be ashamed of, it's all cool in retrospect. Maybe Bernard's selective memory may largely be interview bullshit.
Movement is great, especially when you are 19 and just broke up with your girlfriend, but Everything's Gone Green 12" is where they found New Order.
actually, strike that - i've always thought half-way through Temptation on the end of that 1981 Taras Shevchenko videotape is when they realized they could be New Order.
First time I heard movement was im 1990. It was a shock for me cause I only knew that pop New Order. Not my favoritre but a great album 
But there is something about the claustrophobic production and embryonic feel to a lot of the stuff on Movement that gives that particular record its own peculiarly strange appeal, wouldn't anyone agree?
The band were missing a crucial limb - and were in the process of trying to grow back a new one: and thus the resultant music conveyed this very well.
Totally agree, I think it's a fantastic album and all the songs they wrote in that 80-82 period are wonderfully fragile and heartfelt. I think that's why Barney is embarassed by it, it touches a nerve and causes reflection on a time that he doesn't like to think about. That's fine but just say that, don't go rubbishing something that means a lot to lots of people.
Still find it unlikely that he really doesn't remember Homage, the first song he wrote after IC's death and all about that event. The cleaned up version now available makes the lyrics really clear for the first time and I've always had a soft spot for it. Looking forward to Hooky murdering it next year, along with Mesh and Cries and whipers (wonder if he'll get them the right way round?) :-)
jamie fairlie wrote: Totally agree, I think it's a fantastic album and all the songs they wrote in that 80-82 period are wonderfully fragile and heartfelt. I think that's why Barney is embarassed by it, it touches a nerve and causes reflection on a time that he doesn't like to think about. That's fine but just say that, don't go rubbishing something that means a lot to lots of people.
Still find it unlikely that he really doesn't remember Homage, the first song he wrote after IC's death and all about that event. The cleaned up version now available makes the lyrics really clear for the first time and I've always had a soft spot for it. Looking forward to Hooky murdering it next year, along with Mesh and Cries and whipers (wonder if he'll get them the right way round?) :-)
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: But there is something about the claustrophobic production and embryonic feel to a lot of the stuff on Movement that gives that particular record its own peculiarly strange appeal, wouldn't anyone agree?
The band were missing a crucial limb - and were in the process of trying to grow back a new one: and thus the resultant music conveyed this very well.
Well put. I also think we wanted them back in any shape or form at that time, wanted to see them continue and carry on. Warts and all.
Part 2 of the interview
Change: Hooky departs.
James: You said that Peter Hook left as opposed to the band breaking up he doesn’t see it as that way does he?
Bernard: We never sat down and had a meeting about it and said do you think we should split up, he just went of Xfm and said “New Order have split up” and we went “No we haven’t”. He can’t tell us we’ve split up, as far as I’m concerned you can leave but you break something up made of people comprising of more than you.
Bernard: He’s performing on his own, it’s really difficult to sit there and watch him hijack our heritage in the way that he did with The Hacienda but I have no idea what the legal situation is.
James: Do you think New Order will reform with Peter again?
Bernard: In our minds he left the band and now we can’t embrace our heritage and he’s managed to scoop off the last chunk of it, which isn’t very nice after all these years. The way you treat your old band buddies and yeah it doesn’t feel good, you don’t do the dirty on your mates.
http://www.sabotagetimes.com/music/ch-ch-ch-changes-from-joy-division-to-new-order-to-now-part-2/
^^^I must be missing something because that reads incoherently to me.
Then, this is confusing too:
James: Do you have like ten favourite New Order and Joy Division songs that you could just list?Bernard: I guess all the ones coming up on the new album and the ones that we couldn’t fit on Love Vigilantes is a good one and Disorder, and there’s other ones as well, it depends what mood you’re in. Saying that as well you don’t go home and play your own music you’ve spent so much time with it. It’s bit like you don’t go out and socialise with the band because you’re always with them.
New album? Couldn't fit on? And there's a period missing before Love Vigilantes?
John Demetry wrote: ^^^I must be missing something because that reads incoherently to me.
Then, this is confusing too:
James: Do you have like ten favourite New Order and Joy Division songs that you could just list?Bernard: I guess all the ones coming up on the new album and the ones that we couldn’t fit on Love Vigilantes is a good one and Disorder, and there’s other ones as well, it depends what mood you’re in. Saying that as well you don’t go home and play your own music you’ve spent so much time with it. It’s bit like you don’t go out and socialise with the band because you’re always with them.
New album? Couldn't fit on? And there's a period missing before Love Vigilantes?
I'm guessing some punctuation errors. I think he's clearly naming Love Vigilantes, and Disorder. I'm confused about the first part though. At first I thought the new album might be Total, but he seems to have said 'coming up on the new album'...
Ahh, yes, Total makes sense. Maybe the intereview was done before Total was released. Since there's no mention of NO2.0
