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Judging all the comments, it's evident that the Paris and Brussels shows were GREAT. It really sucks that I couldn't be there, and it looks as if Tom Chapman did an ace job playing bass.
BUT....I'm sure some would agree that Hooky was missed. It's sad how things have turned out.
Here's an ode to a magical time...when Hooky ruled the stage as BASS GOD back in 1985 (Toronto, International Centre - THe Perfect Kiss):
Bruuuue Mundaaee wrote: BUT....I'm sure some would agree that Hooky was missed. It's sad how things have turned out.
It's sad to say, but judging by the general audience reaction over the two gigs, I really don't think there's many people who give a shit whether Hooky was there, or not.
98% of people who attended these gigs probably don't deliberate or pontificate over the rights or wrongs over the current set-up whatsover and just want to go out and see 'New Order' in whatever shape or form.
Same way as folk go to see the Specials without Dammers, Kraftwerk without Schneider, etc, etc.
Shame, but there you go. That's the reality of the matter.
El Jarvo wrote: 98% of people who attended these gigs probably don't deliberate or pontificate over the rights or wrongs over the current set-up whatsover and just want to go out and see 'New Order' in whatever shape or form.
That's the same attitude I observed at the Light gigs.
I wish they would all play together, but I'm happy to see the new new order when if/when they play up north and the light, but elegia just had a massive whole in it with that bass line being played, they should drop it and start the gigs with a bang.
Jed Stephens wrote: I wish they would all play together, but I'm happy to see the new new order when if/when they play up north and the light, but elegia just had a massive whole in it with that bass line being played, they should drop it and start the gigs with a bang.
Especially if they are going to mess Crystal up. In fact drop Crystal and Regret because without Hooky these two are nothing. Big respect to Mr Chapman however.
The Paradise Man wrote: Especially if they are going to mess Crystal up.
The Crystal rendition at Brussels was out of sync that's true but to be fair to them that was the first time they had played as New Order in five years, the first song of the night and there was definitely a weight of expectation. It was a minor cock up but claiming they should never play it ever again due to a slight mishap is a tad harsh. Besides, the Paris rendition was fine and completely in sync as far as I remember.
The Paradise Man wrote: In fact drop Crystal and Regret because without Hooky these two are nothing.
It would be madness for them to drop either Crystal or Regret from the set; they are New Order's most popular singles. It would be like The Light not playing Transmission or LWTUA because "it's just not the same without Steve's drums or Barney's guitar". You could draw the same parallels unless of course you believe one member is bigger than the entire band.
Besides, I saw Regret at both gigs and it sounded great. The bass was loud and the rest of the band were doing what they normally did; it certainly wasn't "nothing".
Chapman seemed competent especially with the rather large shoes he had to fill. At the start of Brussels he was quite shy and remained towards the back of the stage behind Gillian but as the crowd's response grew more enthusiastic he came out of his shell a little and moved forward to the front. He didn't try copying Hooky's physical presence, didn't riff in quite the same style and I assume if he had tried he would have been crucified... so you're right there, he deserves some respect. I'm sure he's a nice guy.
Very relieved to see in the clips that Chapman didn't try and copy Hooky's low slung style. God imagine if he had? Jeez
Ah, I'm under scrutiny again :\ohwell: I'm sure the order of the day was for Chapman to play like he always does and not develop the 'Hooky' style. Although it would seem that this is what is needed to capture the essence of the bass parts on tracks like Crystal, Regret and AOC. Looking forward to witnessing them in the UK soon.
Having watched all the videos, I thought Chapman played great. The only time I heard him mess up was in Love Will Tear Us Apart, and Hooky's bungled it himself at times (like all of them, of course).
NotAMod wrote: [ It would be madness for them to drop either Crystal or Regret from the set; they are New Order's most popular singles.
Are you sure??
Regret possibly.....but Crystal? Over the likes of TPK, BLT, EGG, Ceremony, TF, etc....??
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:
NotAMod wrote: [ It would be madness for them to drop either Crystal or Regret from the set; they are New Order's most popular singles.
Are you sure??
Regret possibly.....but Crystal? Over the likes of TPK, BLT, EGG, Ceremony, TF, etc....??
Crystal is a much-needed example of a "hit" from recent years
Oh and I love it 
Oh, it's good all right, but.......not that good.
Spoilt by those stoopid cliched diva backing vocals. Why does New Order insist on backing vocalists??
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:
NotAMod wrote: [ It would be madness for them to drop either Crystal or Regret from the set; they are New Order's most popular singles.
Are you sure??
Regret possibly.....but Crystal? Over the likes of TPK, BLT, EGG, Ceremony, TF, etc....??
Actually I meant to type "two of New Order's most popular singles" rather than Regret and Crystal are the two most popular singles. So a bit of a correction there.
But yes, I would rate it up there with the likes of a couple you mention. Just because it's newer doesn't mean it's automatically inferior... Crystal was just the kick up the band's arse in terms of a fresh sound they needed at the time and it's aged pretty well, still packs a punch not to mention many younger fans got into the band on the back of it in 2001.
Oh, and stop whinging Eck... anything positive to say? 
NotAMod wrote:
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:
NotAMod wrote: [ It would be madness for them to drop either Crystal or Regret from the set; they are New Order's most popular singles.
Are you sure??
Regret possibly.....but Crystal? Over the likes of TPK, BLT, EGG, Ceremony, TF, etc....??
Actually I meant to type "two of New Order's most popular singles" rather than Regret and Crystal are the two most popular singles. So a bit of a correction there.
But yes, I would rate it up there with the likes of a couple you mention. Just because it's newer doesn't mean it's automatically inferior... Crystal was just the kick up the band's arse in terms of a fresh sound they needed at the time and it's aged pretty well, still packs a punch
Oh, and stop whinging Eck... anything positive to say?
Mmmmm-kay - correction accepted! :)
There! That's positive for yer!
I'm pleased Gillian is back and hope they do some UK gigs. Whay would you want HOOKY the DJ back?
everyoneverywhere wrote: Crystal is a much-needed example of a "hit" from recent years
Best thing they've written in 25 years, Imho.
El Jarvo wrote: It's sad to say, but judging by the general audience reaction over the two gigs, I really don't think there's many people who give a shit whether Hooky was there, or not.
I wonder how many members leaving it would take before fans thought 'thats not New Order anymore'? As long as you get Blue Monday at the end who cares?
Every single band I like no longer has its original members and I still follow them all so Im not slagging anybody else off I just never thought New Order would be in that club.
I hope they do an album and the bass sounds a bit like Hooky. Then at least I can pretend.
cranelane wrote: I wonder did the band themselves miss him at all?
Getting deep into gossip territory/conjecture here, but I'm curious if Hooky's absence wasn't a prerequisite for Gillian to appear.
I don't know any of them personally, but I do remember an interview with Bernard with an Australian site from earlier this year. He said that he doesn't think he could work with Hooky again. So if that's how he feels, I would assume at least Bernard didn't miss him. I don't know about the other members though.
Think New Order may change a bit their style including more guitar and electronics if they decide to write new songs. Hooky's bass was their guiding instrument and they will miss its melodies 
Big Mouth Julio wrote: Think New Order may change a bit their style including more guitar and electronics if they decide to write new songs. Hooky's bass was their guiding instrument and they will miss its melodies
But I wonder were Bernard and Steve tired of having to have the trademark Hooky bass on every song..
cranelane wrote:
Big Mouth Julio wrote: Think New Order may change a bit their style including more guitar and electronics if they decide to write new songs. Hooky's bass was their guiding instrument and they will miss its melodies
But I wonder were Bernard and Steve tired of having to have the trademark Hooky bass on every song..
That's not fair. The bass was their lead instrument since the early days. Just remembered when I listened to "What do you want from me?" intro just after its release, I immediately thought it was a New Order song cause Hooky's bass was there again on the front. It was his bass that made me a JD and NO fan. If he left I will miss him. Just my opinion.
Big Mouth Julio wrote: Think New Order may change a bit their style including more guitar and electronics if they decide to write new songs. Hooky's bass was their guiding instrument and they will miss its melodies
Hooky's bass was the lead instrument, but not the guiding one. Bernard, Steve, and Gillian would prepare a track (ie do the synth melodies, programmed bass, and live and programmed drums) and then Hooky would go in and jam out his distinctive lead basslines over what others had already put down. Hardly thier guiding instrument.
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Big Mouth Julio wrote: Think New Order may change a bit their style including more guitar and electronics if they decide to write new songs. Hooky's bass was their guiding instrument and they will miss its melodies
Hooky's bass was the lead instrument, but not the guiding one. Bernard, Steve, and Gillian would prepare a track (ie do the synth melodies, programmed bass, and live and programmed drums) and then Hooky would go in and jam out his distinctive lead basslines over what others had already put down. Hardly thier guiding instrument.
The last album Hooky's bass was pushed up in the mix was Brotherhood. And I would argue it's too loud on a lot of the songs.
The reunion gigs proved you can sound like Hooky without having to prowl around like him. So, are fans missing Hooky's stage persona, or his bass playing?
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Big Mouth Julio wrote: Think New Order may change a bit their style including more guitar and electronics if they decide to write new songs. Hooky's bass was their guiding instrument and they will miss its melodies
Hooky's bass was the lead instrument, but not the guiding one. Bernard, Steve, and Gillian would prepare a track (ie do the synth melodies, programmed bass, and live and programmed drums) and then Hooky would go in and jam out his distinctive lead basslines over what others had already put down. Hardly thier guiding instrument.
This is why people write books to set records straight. It may well be the case on some tracks but on others Hooky and Steve laid down the bass and drum parts and Bernard would go in and jam out a guitar and vocal line (often following the bass melody). This was the case on LWTUA for example.
I miss his bass playing, and while I have enjoyed The Light performances of the Joy Division albums (in person, to boot!), he actually is pretty occupied with the lead vocals and his son does most of the bass playing. I'd like to hear Hooky play bass again!
The Paradise Man wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Big Mouth Julio wrote: Think New Order may change a bit their style including more guitar and electronics if they decide to write new songs. Hooky's bass was their guiding instrument and they will miss its melodies
Hooky's bass was the lead instrument, but not the guiding one. Bernard, Steve, and Gillian would prepare a track (ie do the synth melodies, programmed bass, and live and programmed drums) and then Hooky would go in and jam out his distinctive lead basslines over what others had already put down. Hardly thier guiding instrument.
This is why people write books to set records straight. It may well be the case on some tracks but on others Hooky and Steve laid down the bass and drum parts and Bernard would go in and jam out a guitar and vocal line (often following the bass melody). This was the case on LWTUA for example.
And then there are many others that began as taped jam sessions with all of them, and later they would mine the tapes for good parts and then compose around that.
They never had just one approach to songwriting.
ok, so tom can play the old stuff well. some like him more, some less, but you can't say he's a disaster. on the other hand hooky's presence on stage will be missed always by any NO fan. but that's live. many people are wondering about a new album. I have my doubts there. because in my opinion tom will sound like tom there. so the sound we'll get would be closer to BL. it'd be crazy to expect him to sound like hooky on an album. in fact if that's the case everyone would be pointing at him like "oh, he's trying to sound like hooky and he's not". so I doubt I want another album as NO because that one won't sound as NO... do I make any sense?
