New Order : Lost Sirens LP+CD

Frank Arkwrighthttp://https://twitter.com/#!/frankarkwright1 wrote on his Twitter account:

http://https://twitter.com/#!/frankarkwright1/status/136784184852217856

Cutting a new piece of vinyl for New Order , heavyweight vinyl !

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: On the contrary - I most certainly WOULD NOT under any circumstances or contexts include UPoo with that trio of bands. Simply because they were never innovative in the first place and actually only started experimenting and changing their sound later on - which shows THEM up for the opportunistic bandwagon-jumpers they were, and still are. Pffft! The very thought that people can speak of UPoo in the same breath as New Order makes me shudder......

I seem to remember reading New Order had been off in the US dancing to some fancy tunes and wanting New Order fans to dance to their songs.

As for The Cure as innovators I see your 'Pffft!' and raise you a 'Pshaw!'

• how come there is no mention of Lost Sirens on their newordernow.net page

• with the album about 2 to 3 weeks away how come they have not released any single of it to promote the album, can it be that the songs are so bland or bad that it is not even worth it.

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

Urban myth which has been repeated here over and over again, but never actually happened.

They just adopted current trends into their own style, can't see that they genuinely pushed any boundaries.

The likes of Blue Monday, KW1, Confusion, Fine Time, etc, were all following in the footsteps of other artistes who'd (arguably) already done it better.

You may have a bit of a point... I'd say that New Order (although they have been influential) were actually more influenced than influential. They experimented with their sound, but those experiments, like you said, had already been done previously by other groups. New Order 'blurred' boundaries if you like, and probably did create 'alternative dance'/'indie dance' with the dance/rock crossover thing I guess. Kraftwerk and Cabaret Voltaire were vastly more creative bands in the future electronic dance scene in my opinion.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/nov/17/new-order-out-takes-final-album

El Jarvo wrote:

linus sulanki wrote:

• how come there is no mention of Lost Sirens on their newordernow.net page

• with the album about 2 to 3 weeks away how come they have not released any single of it to promote the album, can it be that the songs are so bland or bad that it is not even worth it.

Dunno, Bernard.

You tell us.

I wished I knew

leather_girl wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/nov/17/new-order-out-takes-final-album

Kind of ironic that as Hooky is saying he's wants to say New Order is all over, in the ad for the New Order show next month there's a photo of hooky with Bernard and Stephen.

Hans Franz wrote:

leather_girl wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/nov/17/new-order-out-takes-final-album

Hook "I want to be able to look at New Order and go: 'Well, it's all finished"

Good luck with that mate

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

Urban myth which has been repeated here over and over again, but never actually happened.

They just adopted current trends into their own style, can't see that they genuinely pushed any boundaries.

Very true

They adopted Hazell Dean's 84-85 Hi- NRG hi jinks into Face Up for example

I do think New Order was innovative, and in several ways. The bass as main guitar was never(and will never be) as succesful and brilliant as it was with New Order, the percussion has always been a mix of electronic music and punk music, and the vocals are more simple and easier to sing, but that's what makes them special. They're great melodies that sound good with any person singing them, it's not like those songs which work only with the original singer. I'm not saying everyone can sing as well as Bernard, but you can put any person to sing Regret or Temptation, and it will still sound beautiful. Rolling in the Deep by Adele, for instance, is a good song, but only when a talented singer is doing it. Not that it makes it a bad song, but NO songs are accessible yet deep, you can listen to them in the car, at home, on your media player walking on the street, as a film soundtrack, in a night club, and so on.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

linus sulanki wrote: Again this is only my opinion, after the Lost sirens is released, it won't be long before we get another NO album before next summer minus Hook, all the stuff they worked on the new Bad Lieutenant and the other 2 should be converted or reworked to be like New Order music, again it is only an opinion.

To be totally honest (ha ha ha geddit???), after the WFTSC outtakes are issued and the lid closed on the Hook-era New Order, I don't think I will getting too enthusiastic about any of their future releases.....they just don't excite and interest me in the way they used to.

These days, I think of New Order as two completely separate entities:

1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

Post-1993 - when they have largely stagnated and become lukewarm into middle age ....

You can say this about any of their contemporaries too who have also lasted 30+ years, and yes, the two bands that come to mind most obviously are Depeche [f***in'] Mode and The Cure.

They too should have split up ages ago, but have plodded on and on and become less and less interesting to the point of tedium.

I am not going to count Echo & The Bunnymen in this cos they are a completely different proposition - in that they were never the sort of band to have a number 1 album in the UK (as NO/DM/Cure have done at some point at the peak of their success).

The last Echo & The Bunnymen was great IMO, and they've always sounded really fresh to me, specially the synths. But yeah, I agree, they're completely different.

johnny wrote:

Hans Franz wrote:

leather_girl wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/nov/17/new-order-out-takes-final-album

Hook "I want to be able to look at New Order and go: 'Well, it's all finished"

Good luck with that mate

Well, he could always go and join the Killers if his dream is to still [cock] rock out.

:p

johnny wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

Urban myth which has been repeated here over and over again, but never actually happened.

They just adopted current trends into their own style, can't see that they genuinely pushed any boundaries.

Very true

They adopted Hazell Dean's 84-85 Hi- NRG hi jinks into Face Up for example

Don't remind me about Face Up - I have never stopped laughing at that slap bass intro ever since the day I first heard it.

Forgive me my academic portentousness when I made that earlier assertion that they were pushing boundaries, of course, they were better known for pushing each other into deep puddles more like!

linus sulanki wrote:

• how come there is no mention of Lost Sirens on their newordernow.net page

Yeah, not very, er, now is it

NotAMod wrote:

In an apparent clash with former bandmates Bernard Sumner and Stephen Morris, Hook argued for the tracks to be released as a standalone album, not as part of a Waiting for the Sirens' Call reissue. "I keep telling them it will do them no good, because once one person has it, it will be up on the internet and nobody will have to buy it," Hook said.

I don't understand this bit. Surely it makes no difference whether Lost Sirens is released as a stand-alone album or as part of a WFTSC reissue? If people are going to illegally copy and upload it to the Internet then they will, regardless of whether it's a stand-alone album or not.

Regardless, I was in favour of the WFTSC "deluxe edition" as well. 2 CDs plus a DVD with some live footage of the era and a bonus remix section. It would have been a lovely full stop on the Hooky-era NO if handled, packaged and mastered correctly. Basically let a fan curate it with the backing of the label. The mastering on the original WFTSC CD is horrible and this was a good opportunity to redo it in the manner of "Total".

I guess Frank Arkwright's tweet is the confirmation we need that the album is being finalised. My bet is, it will eventually come out but we'll be lucky if it's this year.

I can see where Hookys coming from but not from his point of view. If the Lost Sirens was in a package containing the original Waiting For The Sirens Call then people might not be interested in buying it (as they probably already own WFTSC).

Whereas if Lost Sirens was packaged and sold as a stand alone product then people might be more inclined to purchase it.

Thats my take on it. For the record WFTSC is the only new order studio album which i havent ever bought. That may be wrong but I dont feel any urge to go into HMV and buy it. Whereas I would happily replace any of the other albums when they get knackered.

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!

Genetic wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: You can say this about any of their contemporaries too who have also lasted 30+ years, and yes, the two bands that come to mind most obviously are Depeche [f***in'] Mode and The Cure.

Id include U2 in that, actually. Started off Punky New Wave (nearly had Hannett as a producer but he was too busy with JD), went insipid MOR/AOR, then became prety good Pre-Industrial innovators only to, incredibly, become bland MOR/AOR snore-fests a second time.

And in the middle of all of that multi-millionaire Bonio wants me to cough up and feed the poor. Fuck off.

err hannett produced 11 o'clock tick tock

from wiki

The non-album single was produced by Martin Hannett, renowned for his work with Joy Division, a band influential to U2. The band first met Hannett while he was producing "Love Will Tear Us Apart" with Joy Division, where U2 were silent studio onlookers during the session. "11 O'Clock Tick Tock" debuted live in August 1979 with alternate lyrics and was then known as "Silver Lining." It evolved into "11 O'Clock Tick Tock" between March and May 1980

El Jarvo wrote:

hibster wrote: technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

Was EGG written on a computer? Or just a sequencer?

Either way, no.

Some of it was... And the sleeve image was computer generated... I think it was probably the first time they seriously started exploring computer-aided music as a means of composition...

Snorri xxx

hibster wrote:

err hannett produced 11 o'clock tick tock

Congratulations, pick yourself an anorak.

He was U2s first choice for the first two albums but he was always too busy with JD/NO.

At least thats what he told them

hibster wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!

Depends on what you mean by 'pushing boundaries'. In terms of musical innovation? Undoubtedly. Bass as lead, blending of electronic and acoustic instruments, experimental song structures (Perfect Kiss) and in countless other ways. In how they engaged with the music industry? Even more so. Releasing stand-alone singles, leaving hit singles off albums, releasing tracks as 12 inch only, not doing interviews, insisting on playing live on TOTP. To me, this is the very definition of 'boundary pushing'.

GlasVegas wrote:

hibster wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!

Depends on what you mean by 'pushing boundaries'. In terms of musical innovation? Undoubtedly. Bass as lead, blending of electronic and acoustic instruments, experimental song structures (Perfect Kiss) and in countless other ways. In how they engaged with the music industry? Even more so. Releasing stand-alone singles, leaving hit singles off albums, releasing tracks as 12 inch only, not doing interviews, insisting on playing live on TOTP. To me, this is the very definition of 'boundary pushing'.

Simply P-E-R-F-E-C-T your response!

Is this it... In one phrase: they fucked off the showbizz handbook in the 80s.

Johnny Giles wrote:

GlasVegas wrote:

hibster wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!

Depends on what you mean by 'pushing boundaries'. In terms of musical innovation? Undoubtedly. Bass as lead, blending of electronic and acoustic instruments, experimental song structures (Perfect Kiss) and in countless other ways. In how they engaged with the music industry? Even more so. Releasing stand-alone singles, leaving hit singles off albums, releasing tracks as 12 inch only, not doing interviews, insisting on playing live on TOTP. To me, this is the very definition of 'boundary pushing'.

G to da Man. Word bro'.

Isn't all this the reason why we fell for them so bad? and equally why many are so disappointed with meet & greet packages? The spiritual opposite, the gravity of economics maybe but still the anti Christ of boundary pushing.

Agreed. But ultimately you need to divorce the mystique and the punk-rock outlook of the band that drew each of us to them and made us love them from the reality of their current situation; a band (or two bands I suppose), all the wrong side of 50, with a back catalogue that's gone from earning them £££££ ten years ago to £ in the current climate of free file sharing.

Both sides of the split need to turn a coin and both sides realise that it's no longer going to come from annual royalty cheques. The pension they were probably banking on (the back catalogue) is suddenly worth fuck all and the only way to generate revenue, as it is with almost all bands nowadays, is to play live. I personally think reforming NO minus Hooky and minus any new material to promote is just as suspect as Hooky's exploits with 'The Light' and very much at odds what the band originally stood for. What differentiates NOv2 from all the other nostalgia acts that get back together to play their hits? It's been done purely as a revenue raising exercise. But I'll still go and see them and I won't criticise them for doing it as the reality of the situation is that all 4 of them need to pay the rent like the rest of us.

GlasVegas wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote:

GlasVegas wrote:

hibster wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!

Depends on what you mean by 'pushing boundaries'. In terms of musical innovation? Undoubtedly. Bass as lead, blending of electronic and acoustic instruments, experimental song structures (Perfect Kiss) and in countless other ways. In how they engaged with the music industry? Even more so. Releasing stand-alone singles, leaving hit singles off albums, releasing tracks as 12 inch only, not doing interviews, insisting on playing live on TOTP. To me, this is the very definition of 'boundary pushing'.

G to da Man. Word bro'.

Isn't all this the reason why we fell for them so bad? and equally why many are so disappointed with meet & greet packages? The spiritual opposite, the gravity of economics maybe but still the anti Christ of boundary pushing.

Agreed. But ultimately you need to divorce the mystique and the punk-rock outlook of the band that drew each of us to them and made us love them from the reality of their current situation; a band (or two bands I suppose), all the wrong side of 50, with a back catalogue that's gone from earning them £££££ ten years ago to £ in the current climate of free file sharing.

Both sides of the split need to turn a coin and both sides realise that it's no longer going to come from annual royalty cheques. The pension they were probably banking on (the back catalogue) is suddenly worth fuck all and the only way to generate revenue, as it is with almost all bands nowadays, is to play live. I personally think reforming NO minus Hooky and minus any new material to promote is just as suspect as Hooky's exploits with 'The Light' and very much at odds what the band originally stood for. What differentiates NOv2 from all the other nostalgia acts that get back together to play their hits? It's been done purely as a revenue raising exercise. But I'll still go and see them and I won't criticise them for doing it as the reality of the situation is that all 4 of them need to pay the rent like the rest of us.

I disagree with you equating what the Light are doing with what New Order are doing, but leaving that to the side for a minute, why does the fact they don't have any new material to promote make them less legitimate in your eyes? They didn't have any new material to promote when they reformed in 98 and I don't remember anyone moaning back then, saying 'oh, it's purely a revenue raising exercise'.

BillONdollar wrote:

What's this in response to? The original question or one of the above posts?