Johnny Giles wrote: This would become no more cabaret if Don Estelle joined them on the maracas.
Please somebody, make this happen.
And get Mike AND Brandon Flowers to be special guests.
:p
Dates
· UTC
New Order : Lost Sirens LP+CD
Archived397 replies · 64,240 views
This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.
← Back to Digital Republic
Showing posts 121–150 of 398
↑ First post
Latest post ↓
Skullcrushed wrote:
GlasVegas wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
GlasVegas wrote:
hibster wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....
What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?
technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?
they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!
Depends on what you mean by 'pushing boundaries'. In terms of musical innovation? Undoubtedly. Bass as lead, blending of electronic and acoustic instruments, experimental song structures (Perfect Kiss) and in countless other ways. In how they engaged with the music industry? Even more so. Releasing stand-alone singles, leaving hit singles off albums, releasing tracks as 12 inch only, not doing interviews, insisting on playing live on TOTP. To me, this is the very definition of 'boundary pushing'.
G to da Man. Word bro'.
Isn't all this the reason why we fell for them so bad? and equally why many are so disappointed with meet & greet packages? The spiritual opposite, the gravity of economics maybe but still the anti Christ of boundary pushing.
Agreed. But ultimately you need to divorce the mystique and the punk-rock outlook of the band that drew each of us to them and made us love them from the reality of their current situation; a band (or two bands I suppose), all the wrong side of 50, with a back catalogue that's gone from earning them £££££ ten years ago to £ in the current climate of free file sharing.
Both sides of the split need to turn a coin and both sides realise that it's no longer going to come from annual royalty cheques. The pension they were probably banking on (the back catalogue) is suddenly worth fuck all and the only way to generate revenue, as it is with almost all bands nowadays, is to play live. I personally think reforming NO minus Hooky and minus any new material to promote is just as suspect as Hooky's exploits with 'The Light' and very much at odds what the band originally stood for. What differentiates NOv2 from all the other nostalgia acts that get back together to play their hits? It's been done purely as a revenue raising exercise. But I'll still go and see them and I won't criticise them for doing it as the reality of the situation is that all 4 of them need to pay the rent like the rest of us.
I disagree with you equating what the Light are doing with what New Order are doing, but leaving that to the side for a minute, why does the fact they don't have any new material to promote make them less legitimate in your eyes? They didn't have any new material to promote when they reformed in 98 and I don't remember anyone moaning back then, saying 'oh, it's purely a revenue raising exercise'.
Who's moaning? I was continuing a conversation with JG. I simply pointed out that New Order have reformed, minus a key member of the band, to play a rack of shows and make some £££ and that some people may think this is slightly at odds with what the band have stood for throughout their career. It's a cash-in. If it was for the love of creating and sharing new music they wouldn't have killed off Bad Lietenant (every cloud....). But for the reasons I've already stated, fair play to them. We've all got bills to pay and I'll gladly contribute my ticket money to the cause and have a great time at the gigs. I'm not moaning about it. I'm completely nonplussed about the whole affair.
GlasVegas wrote: I simply pointed out that New Order have reformed, minus a key member of the band, to play a rack of shows and make some £££ and that some people may think this is slightly at odds with what the band have stood for throughout their career. It's a cash-in.
That's debatable. The official reason stated from the outset as to why this line-up of New Order hit the road was to provide financial support for Michael Shamberg's US medical care. His name and situation had a firm presence at the Brussels/Paris gigs and there was even a video presentation to reinforce the point.
I get what you're saying though, there will no doubt come a point where future gigs will be primarily about earning a straightforward crust rather than charitable ends. Or maybe they will continue to donate a smaller percentage of future live revenue to Shamberg's cause. Who knows. In any case, it's a pretty tasteful way for the band to return I.e. charity (even though Hooky quickly branded the charity angle as "bollocks" in the NME).
In terms of "what the band have stood for" helping out a sickly long-time collaborator by raising funds for him is probably enough in keeping with what New Order as a band stood for in the past.
Anyway it's early days, if they produce new material (and I hope they do) I think that will be in keeping with the creative and artistic elements of New Order that we all know and love. If they just grind away on the live circuit and make nothing new then that will get very boring very quickly (for me). I guess only time will tell.
NotAMod wrote:
GlasVegas wrote: I simply pointed out that New Order have reformed, minus a key member of the band, to play a rack of shows and make some £££ and that some people may think this is slightly at odds with what the band have stood for throughout their career. It's a cash-in.
That's debatable. The official reason stated from the outset as to why this line-up of New Order hit the road was to provide financial support for Michael Shamberg's US medical care. His name and situation had a firm presence at the Brussels/Paris gigs and there was even a video presentation to reinforce the point.
I get what you're saying though, there will no doubt come a point where future gigs will be primarily about earning a straightforward crust rather than charitable ends. Or maybe they will continue to donate a smaller percentage of future live revenue to Shamberg's cause. Who knows. In any case, it's a pretty tasteful way for the band to return I.e. charity (even though Hooky quickly branded the charity angle as "bollocks" in the NME).
In terms of "what they have stood for" helping out a long-time collaborator by raising funds for him is probably in keeping with what New Order as a band stood for in the past.
Anyway it's early days, if they produce new material (and I hope they do) I think that will be in keeping with the creative and artistic elements of New Order that we all know and love. If they just grind away on the live circuit and make nothing new then that will get very boring very quickly (for me). I guess only time will tell.
There's not much Hooky has said in recent years that I've agreed with but describing the 'charity angle' as 'bollocks' is bang on the money. If they'd reformed to do two charity gigs then dissapeared again then you could argue that but this was never gonna be the case. I fully expect to see New Order do more gigs in 2012 than they've done in years, possibly decades. They'll be at every major festival in the UK and on the continent and will tour the UK, Europe and the US. Mark my words. Again, I re-iterate, THIS IS A GOOD THING. Just don't pretend that it's that much more honourable than what Hooky's doing. Essentially it's two factions of the same band on the road, playing the hits to make money. 'It is what it is' as dumb Americans love to say.
Johnny Giles wrote: New Order have known since the summer that Lost Sirens was set for release, its been more at the record co end that matters have been delayed. So they're doing a few gigs to get back into things knowing that they've got new material around the corner which I'm sure we'll see them promote next year. Fine. And 4 of the 5 musicians are fulfilling the role they've always had since they've been in NO including the singer which is essential for it to sound 'right'. And as Bernard and Phil have spent ages in the studio over the last 4 years they are very much a living musical project. As a concept this authentic.
Contrast that with playing the songs of a band that ceased to exist over 30 years ago so new material isn't possible. Just 1 of the 4 members is involved and as he has to sing he barely does the job he became famous for. And he takes every opportunity to wildly criticise his old band mates in the media This would become no more cabaret if Don Estelle joined them on the maracas.
If these are equally suspect our worlds spin on different axes.
OK. They're certainly not 'equally as suspect', I'll concede that. What Hooky is doing smells bad, nobody can debate that. But so too does changing your name from Bad Lieutenant to New Order which is essentially what the 'living musical project' did when they realised that the public wasn't interested in them and their material was sub-par. It's exactly the same as David Gedge suddenly announcing that Cinerama were now to be called The Wedding Present and that they'd be touring 'George Best in it's entirety' at venues twice the size of anything Cinerama could fill. It's a decision based on finance and as such has the potential to raise questions, among those so-minded (not me!), about 'artistic integrity' and other such pretentious nonsense.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning what you're saying as you being negative. What you're saying is factual, money is a fact of life for bands and there's only so far you can be precious about your punk ethics.
GlasVegas wrote: Just don't pretend that it's that much more honourable than what Hooky's doing.
I'm not sure "honourable" is the word I'd use but if New Order Ltd decide to write and record new material then yes it would set them aside from The Light in my eyes. Ditto if The Light decided to record something new that wasn't so firmly entrenched in Joy Division but Hooky is on record as saying he doesn't want to make new music because there's no money in it. He's concentrating on what will put bums on seats which is basically Ian Curtis. The fanbase have not been shy to say what they think of that, both detractors and admirers.
To be fair I don't think New Order have fully set out their intentions for the coming year (perhaps they won't, not very "New Ordery" after all) but presumably more live dates are coming. If genuinely new material - and I don't mean Lost Sirens - is a possibility then it would certainly make this reunion less of a "cash in" and more credible to me. Not that it's such a big deal to me either, I really enjoyed the EU dates and am looking forward to London.
As I said it's early days 
these are great times to be young and in love with new order. peter hook travels the world with a finely tuned sound of excitement and awe for the past. he plays awesomely, his band is tight, and guests love to sing ian curtis songs as much as peter. 2 years ago bernard wrote some different songs from the expected . those melodies and lyrics and voices were awfully incredible for any age . bernard is not done . gillian and stephen have each other and bernard, and as long as no one mentions i told you so , jetstream(i did once and got away with it), and working overtime, all is well in new order land . and the younger at heart can travel to las vegas for cirque de soleil "true faith" 2015,or the satellite show in manchester "blue monday"
Johnny Giles wrote: New Order have known since the summer that Lost Sirens was set for release, its been more at the record co end that matters have been delayed. So they're doing a few gigs to get back into things knowing that they've got new material around the corner which I'm sure we'll see them promote next year. Fine. And 4 of the 5 musicians are fulfilling the role they've always had since they've been in NO including the singer which is essential for it to sound 'right'. And as Bernard and Phil have spent ages in the studio over the last 4 years they are very much a living musical project. As a concept this authentic.
Contrast that with playing the songs of a band that ceased to exist over 30 years ago so new material isn't possible. Just 1 of the 4 members is involved and as he has to sing he barely does the job he became famous for. And he takes every opportunity to wildly criticise his old band mates in the media This would become no more cabaret if Don Estelle joined them on the maracas.
If these are equally suspect our worlds spin on different axes.
Well said.
NotAMod wrote:
I'm not sure "honourable" is the word I'd use but if New Order Ltd decide to write and record new material then yes it would set them aside from The Light in my eyes. Ditto if The Light decided to record something new that wasn't so firmly entrenched in Joy Division but Hooky is on record as saying he doesn't want to make new music because there's no money in it. He's concentrating on what will put bums on seats which is basically Ian Curtis. The fanbase have not been shy to say what they think of that, both detractors and admirers.
If genuinely new material - and I don't mean Lost Sirens - is a possibility then it would certainly make this reunion less of a "cash in" and more credible to me. Not that it's such a big deal to me either, I really enjoyed the EU dates and am looking forward to London.
As I said it's early days
I agree. The 'new' New Order might be hypocritical if they only toured the world playing their older songs for the next few years. But if they did write/release new material then they wouldn't really be hypocritical as much. And...the band (w/ Hooky though) had already quite a few unreleased tracks from the WFTSC era. Would BL (or the people involved with BL) just throw all of the music they were writing into the rubbish bin? Jake Evans is now talking about a solo album now. This is from this June: http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/tv_and_showbiz/s/1423329_bernard-sumner-rules-out-a-new-order-reunion
Bernard confirms he and Steve are halfway through recording a new Bad Lieutenant album, which should be ready by Christmas, and that he’s also working with producer Stuart Price on another new music project
Strangely, though, Bernard says he’s not one for “looking back” or “nostalgia”. He says: “I don’t really like poring over the past, I’m a forward-looking person. “That’s why I’m writing new material. “But, of course, I’m very proud of our achievements and the great songs that we’ve written that have taken us all around the world."
So...that's going to the rubbish bin too? Or will something new be released somehow later?
It's difficult to predict what will happen with the BL material now. I hope this does get completed and released as NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready. The timing of any release is complicated now by the NO schedule so I guess we'll have to be patient on this.
Johnny Giles wrote: NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready.
Are you trying to out-muscle Nobby as their no.1 fan?
GlasVegas wrote:
hibster wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....
What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?
technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?
they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!
Depends on what you mean by 'pushing boundaries'. In terms of musical innovation? Undoubtedly. Bass as lead, blending of electronic and acoustic instruments, experimental song structures (Perfect Kiss) and in countless other ways. In how they engaged with the music industry? Even more so. Releasing stand-alone singles, leaving hit singles off albums, releasing tracks as 12 inch only, not doing interviews, insisting on playing live on TOTP. To me, this is the very definition of 'boundary pushing'.
But other than that what have New Order ever done for us?
Best post I've read on here in a good while
Now when's this fookin album out in the UK?
El Jarvo wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote: NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready.
Are you trying to out-muscle Nobby as their no.1 fan?
Nah, he's got 6 inches on me. Fnarr.
I've heard loads say how good the BL album is, one writer on Saboatage recently described it as good as anything NO have done. That was stretching it a bit I thought! But I suspect the general tone of negativity on here makes folk reluctant to say what their ears are telling them.
Johnny Giles wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote: NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready.
Are you trying to out-muscle Nobby as their no.1 fan?
Nah, he's got 6 inches on me. Fnarr.
I've heard loads say how good the BL album is, one writer on Saboatage recently described it as good as anything NO have done. That was stretching it a bit I thought! But I suspect the general tone of negativity on here makes folk reluctant to say what their ears are telling them.
Just the six?
He's taller than you as well. 
Johnny Giles wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote: NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready.
Are you trying to out-muscle Nobby as their no.1 fan?
Nah, he's got 6 inches on me. Fnarr.
I've heard loads say how good the BL album is, one writer on Saboatage recently described it as good as anything NO have done. That was stretching it a bit I thought! But I suspect the general tone of negativity on here makes folk reluctant to say what their ears are telling them.
I was guilty I think of being rather negative about NCAT - listened to bits of it but never actually bought it when it came out, but did get the limited edition box thingy cos it was cheap on Amazon a while ago, and having had a bit more time with it, it isn't as bad as I thought, which bodes well for any potential future output from NONow/NO LTD/whatever else they migth end up calling themselves...
Snorri xxx
Snorrimon wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote: NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready.
Are you trying to out-muscle Nobby as their no.1 fan?
Nah, he's got 6 inches on me. Fnarr.
I've heard loads say how good the BL album is, one writer on Saboatage recently described it as good as anything NO have done. That was stretching it a bit I thought! But I suspect the general tone of negativity on here makes folk reluctant to say what their ears are telling them.
I was guilty I think of being rather negative about NCAT - listened to bits of it but never actually bought it when it came out, but did get the limited edition box thingy cos it was cheap on Amazon a while ago, and having had a bit more time with it, it isn't as bad as I thought, which bodes well for any potential future output from NONow/NO LTD/whatever else they migth end up calling themselves...
Snorri xxx
Sorry to say this but I hold my hands up in guilt and shame and confess that I never even bothered with NCAT by Bad Loo, not even when it was going for £2 at FOPP in Manchester.... but then I never bothered with the second or third Electronic albums either.....
:\ohwell:
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:
Snorrimon wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote: NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready.
Are you trying to out-muscle Nobby as their no.1 fan?
Nah, he's got 6 inches on me. Fnarr.
I've heard loads say how good the BL album is, one writer on Saboatage recently described it as good as anything NO have done. That was stretching it a bit I thought! But I suspect the general tone of negativity on here makes folk reluctant to say what their ears are telling them.
I was guilty I think of being rather negative about NCAT - listened to bits of it but never actually bought it when it came out, but did get the limited edition box thingy cos it was cheap on Amazon a while ago, and having had a bit more time with it, it isn't as bad as I thought, which bodes well for any potential future output from NONow/NO LTD/whatever else they migth end up calling themselves...
Snorri xxx
Sorry to say this but I hold my hands up in guilt and shame and confess that I never even bothered with NCAT by Bad Loo, not even when it was going for £2 at FOPP in Manchester.... but then I never bothered with the second or third Electronic albums either.....
The Hell with all of these lengthy discussions, I want to know when they are gonna release a single of this so i can hear it and the other songs on Lost Sirens.
linus sulanki wrote:
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:
Snorrimon wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote: NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready.
Are you trying to out-muscle Nobby as their no.1 fan?
Nah, he's got 6 inches on me. Fnarr.
I've heard loads say how good the BL album is, one writer on Saboatage recently described it as good as anything NO have done. That was stretching it a bit I thought! But I suspect the general tone of negativity on here makes folk reluctant to say what their ears are telling them.
I was guilty I think of being rather negative about NCAT - listened to bits of it but never actually bought it when it came out, but did get the limited edition box thingy cos it was cheap on Amazon a while ago, and having had a bit more time with it, it isn't as bad as I thought, which bodes well for any potential future output from NONow/NO LTD/whatever else they migth end up calling themselves...
Snorri xxx
Sorry to say this but I hold my hands up in guilt and shame and confess that I never even bothered with NCAT by Bad Loo, not even when it was going for £2 at FOPP in Manchester.... but then I never bothered with the second or third Electronic albums either.....
The Hell with all of these lengthy discussions, I want to know when they are gonna release a single of this so i can hear it and the other songs on Lost Sirens.
They are not going to release a fuckin single!
Period.
johnny wrote: Yeah as if they'd release a single from it. Jesus, give me strength
Some people want the moon on a stick.
Incidentally, what you asking Jesus for??
I thought you were an atheist.
keepitcoming wrote: these are great times to be young and in love with new order. peter hook travels the world with a finely tuned sound of excitement and awe for the past. he plays awesomely, his band is tight
Erm, except when singing 
peter was ok singing dreams never end, then brilliant on many revenge songs, fine with monaco , and i am not sure who sings what on freebass. the light videos seem interesting, admittedly his voice is back at ok . how he sings touched by the hand of god , dracula's castle, jetstream , close range, and answer me why won't you answer me (technique), is another story
M1 wrote:
keepitcoming wrote: these are great times to be young and in love with new order. peter hook travels the world with a finely tuned sound of excitement and awe for the past. he plays awesomely, his band is tight
Erm, except when singing
You mean "singing" 
searched US Amazon.com for "Lost Sirens" and this came up... no New Order yet.
