Peter Hook Responds To New Order Snub

Skullcrushed wrote:

I don't know, but Gillian did respond to this attitude of Hooky's in the recent MOJO interview:

"I don't see why he thinks himself any more special than anyone else when a relationship breaks down, band stuff or not. I had to go because I had a daughter to look after. I didn't say, now I'm gone you can't do anything, did I?"

I did read that bit. Obviously, she didn't tell them they should never continue just because she left, yet Hooky feels that if 1 member (although not Gillian) leaves they shouldn't continue.

I think one of the problems is that one interview can turn into 50 stories each with added journalist bollocks, each time the same story gets told with a bit more nastyness as the journo's want their story to be the best, so what started out as, I don't like you, you smell - well my dads bigger than yours! has turned into a complete farce and we're all here lapping it up and adding to the already considerable contempt, which is now spreading from the band to the fans, I think it's time we all started ignoring these stories.

GlasVegas wrote:

joe davola wrote:

Of course they ALL are in it for the money, so there’s no need to point fingers for that particular reason. They are in their mid fifties and need to get some kind of coverage before getting REALLY old, don’t blame them for that.

No, it's only Hooky that's in it for the money. The rest are in it because they genuinely love touring, especially with no record to promote. They're all millionaires and have no need for the filthy lucre. It's 100% for 'the love' of the music and fans.

There'll probably be a new album too and it'll be a lot better than all that 'boom boom boom' stuff that passes for music nowadays.

HOOKY = BAD STEPHEN, GILLIAN & BERNARD + TWO JOBBING SESSIONISTS = GOOD

Fuck me. I think I'm turning into Uncle Liam! Help!!!!!

They genuinely love touring???!!! You sure?? Think you better check your history on that one,especially Bernard,he's mentioned many a time how much he hates it....altho they're doing a good job of it at the mo'

Jed Stephens wrote: I think it's time we all started ignoring these stories.

Well I'm bored of reading them. We want to look forward, or at least I do.

Skullcrushed wrote:

Zachery Starkey wrote: "New Order did pioneer something that has become the norm [merging rock and electronica]. But I still think the awesome power of New Order is in songs like "Leave Me Alone", "Age Of Consent" and "Sunrise" - acoustic songs. That takes real balls and I must admit it was one of the things that saddened me about New Lieutenant or Bad Order or whatever they call themselves was that they put songs like "Age Of Consent" through sequencers. When you listen to it it doesn't work - for me at least. Maybe I'm too much of a purist."

Age of Consent was not played thru a sequencer during this last round of New Order dates. What is he talking about?

Also, at least for me, New Order were at their best when combinig pure electronics with live drums, guitar and bass. True Faith and Temptation are, for me, a million miles better than Leave Me Alone, Lonesome Tonight, and other songs of that ilk. Though I do love Sunrise!

Heresy! I love New Order's more electro stuff as much as the next man, and I'm no fan of the way Hooky's acted over the last few years, but Leave Me Alone and Lonesome Tonight are possibly my two most favourite songs of all time. It doesn't get much better than the long extended instrumental outros to both tunes- Hooky's bass solo in Lonesome Tonight, and Barney's guitar in Leave Me Alone. Just breathtaking. Not that there's anything wrong with True Faith or Temptation, they're fantastic tracks, but I don't think they're superior to the other two.

It's just a matter of taste. Lonesome Tonight and Leave Me Alone don't do anything for me at all. Not bad songs by any means, just don't get my ear.

True Faith, is, for me, a very powerful song as it reminds me very much of the neighborhood I grew up in, and what happened to a lot of the people I grew up with. Plus, it has a beautiful melody and is a top notch dance track.

Temptation does the same thing to me.

condemnation wrote: Age of consent does use a backing track now, that's true. Steve doesn't count it in for nothing.

Age of Consent is totally live. Steve counts it in so everyone starts at the right time. Steve's hi hat, snare, and bass drum parts are all played live, and Gillian plays the synth bass part as well as the higher synth string parts live. What do you think is programmed?

Hooky also said that Bad Lieutenant played his bass parts on keyboards, when Tom Chapman was onstage playing them live on a Bass guitar.

leather_girl wrote:

autonomous wrote: I love Hooky and he is right. I can't wait to see The Light again. All you haters need to take a fookin pill for christe's sake. Cheers, John.

I'm not a hater, but I just sometimes politely disagree, or ask questions, or talk about things based on what they have said in interviews.

For example, Hooky's stance seems to be that if one member leaves, they should not continue as that band. (Such as when Ian died, or when Hooky left.) But reading all these interviews he's done, he doesn't seem to think that when Gillian left.

I wonder why that is? Is it because she never told them to do so? Is it because of the reason that she left? Is it because he thinks he contributed more to NO than Gillian? Is it because his contributions are much more 'obvious' to the ear (that iconic bass sound) ---compared to Gillian's contributions, that he thinks this? I'm just curious.

Hooky's comments about Gillian smack of nothing but pure sexism, and Bernard said in his bio book that Hooky's sexist attitude towards Gillian pissed her off.

While, in her own words, "At the beginning I was just a human sequencer, but eventually I made my way and contributed more", Gillian was a big part of New Order's sound. Her twinkling synth melodies are all over BLT, True Faith, TBTHOG, and Technigue, and World in Motion was written by her and Steve (whatever you think of WIM it is a great pop melody).

New Order missed her contributions greatly on GR and WFTSC and now that she is playing live with them again, they sound much, much better.

Jed Stephens wrote: I think one of the problems is that one interview can turn into 50 stories each with added journalist bollocks, each time the same story gets told with a bit more nastyness as the journo's want their story to be the best, so what started out as, I don't like you, you smell - well my dads bigger than yours! has turned into a complete farce and we're all here lapping it up and adding to the already considerable contempt, which is now spreading from the band to the fans, I think it's time we all started ignoring these stories.

Hooky should know this after being in the industry for 30+ years. If he would just shut up about it, we wouldn't be reading these endless stories. And, especially after last summer's Mani twitter fiasco, Hooky should now be pretty clear about how media works in the 21st century.

Hooky is a dry drunk, and New Order doesn't want to be around that. Didn't he quit drinking and partying right about 2007?

Was it after 'Siren's Call,' then, that things really came to a head?

Once I got sober, I realized what a crock of s--- he was. [laughs] I couldn't live with it. That was why I split the band... I was suffering really badly from alcoholism at the time, and the unhappiness was making me drink more. When your life's out of control, it's a terrible feeling, and I didn't get my life back in control until I stopped drinking. Once I [did], I thought, "Ooh. It's like a bad relationship." All of a sudden, you go, "Oh my God!" And your mates have been telling it you for years! "She's a cow -- get rid of her!" Being in a group is the same. And when it goes, it's like a death. Well, this one's still f---ing dying!

I just feel sorry for the guy. Used to be a hero when I was growing up.

I just feel sorry for the guy. Used to be a hero when I was growing up.

Still is a hero, no matter what he says he was part of my favourite ever group, i don't like the music for their personalities. I will go to New Order and The Light gigs. I don;t agree with what Hooky is sayhing about the new new order but the guy is still my number bass guitarist.

These interviews, or quotes from interviews, are like motor-way accidents. I end up casting my eye over them but always, always, feel really bad for doing so afterwards.

El Jarvo wrote: Give him his dues, he's at least entertaining. He loves a soundbite, does Hooky.

Have no idea what he's saying here though - "I was looking at New Order's set list and it was quite odd to look at their set. The way they've put together a greatest hits type thing, I mean, I enjoy more exploring the record, I couldn't get my head around a set and it really actually freaked me out to think about it..."

'New Older' have basically been doing greatest hits sets since the end of 1987, surely? Has Hooky been 'freaking out' about it for twenty-five years then? The wording of the above actually makes it sound like they're doing something different to when he was in the group. If anything, they've finally capitulated since he left and actually addded fan favourites like 586 and Age of Consent live - tracks I doubt many folk ever thought they'd hear again?

I dont know what Hooky is selling anymore apart his bitterness, he's not making records is he? The 1102/2011 EP is the first thing he's done I've not bought, and don't give a fuck about. I don't need to hear the whip-cracking diva from the Mondays Drug-Fucked Years yelling a cover version of "Atmosphere" in my life.

If on the other hand, you want to look at what he charmlessly calls "New Odour" setlists, you'll see several songs - Elegia, 586, AoConsent, Love Vigilantes, 1963 - that haven't been regular setlist staples since 1989, and a refreshing absence of JoyDivKaraoke, with an absence of Transmission, She's Lost Control, I Love A Party With An Atmosphere, etc. If it were a NooOdour best of set, there'd be a lot more incidences of Ruined In A Day, World, World In Motion, Round & Round, Run, Fine Time, Touched By The Hand Of God, State Of The Nation, Shellshock, Subculture, Confusion, Thieves Like Us, Here To Stay in the current setlists.

saracuse wrote: He was very frustrated by the length of time it took to record WFTSC and wasn't happy with the end results. That combined with his ongoing personality/control issues with Bernard is what led to his decision to leave or "break up" the band:

"We were in the studio for three years putting that album together which cost £700,000 to record and we got nothing back from it."

What happened was that I didn't enjoy working with Bernard anymore. I felt that our ambitions for the group and for the music were too far apart to ever come together again. It was a pain in the arse doing the last album, and the fact that it took three years was f---ing ridiculous. I'll never get that time back again.

The last New Order song was 'Regret.' The rest of them, to me, were Electronic songs with bass on them.

Once I got sober, I realized what a crock of s--- he was. [laughs] I couldn't live with it. That was why I split the band.

He never considered Gillian to be a true member either, it sounds like he pretty much ignored her and was fine with her leaving:

She's not a very good musician, I'm afraid, and she didn't add that much to the band. It was a problem with both of us. We were very happy when she left. And personally I thought New Order Mark 2 were far superior to New Order Mark 1

He saw New Order as the direct continuation of Joy Division with the original three all being irreplaceable. I think it's sad though that he announced the break up publicly without telling anyone else first.

A nice collection of quotes and what appears to me as a contradiction here, as it has done before, is that if the last NO song was Regret and after that it was a crock of shit, how come NO Mark 2 were far superior to NO Mark 1? Am I missing something? Other than that I think most of this has been covered before and maybe it's time for us fans to stop reacting every time Hooky gives an interview somewhere in the world.

Maybe Hooky could give different answers to the same questions instead of the usual angry gubbins?

Hows this sound, ask me a bunch of questions you would ask Hooky and I bet I could very convincingly mimic them.

Christ... This is way beyond boring now... I love Hooky. The man is a genius and one quarter responsible for some of the music that I love so much... However. He did not have any issue in the band being called New Order after Gillian left. So what is the difference in him not being there..? The Light are not called Joy Division because they are not Joy Division..! He was the bass player, not singer / song writer... The remaining 3/4 of the band have every right to remain as New Order...

No offense but I don't remember Bonehead kicking off about Oasis retaining there name when he went...It all sounds like sour grapes to me... He's pissed of because the remaining members of the band have had (on the whole) a great reception to the gigs that they have played. I was at the Troxy and loved it... I'm gutted it's not the original line up but at the end of the day, if I can see the reminder of the band play Ceremony, Temptation etc like they did at the Troxy (they seemed to be really enjoying themselves for the first time in a long time) I will take that every time...

The references to New New Order, Bad Order etc just make Hooky sound stupid and as I said previously the man is a genius but he should really give it a rest...

Anyway rant over...

Obviously more going on behind the scenes than we'll ever be privy too, but I get the feeling Hooky feels he's been duped. Did I read before that the others bought the trademark to 'New Order', leaving him out which means he has no right to the name?

This could be why he is PISSED!

mark reed wrote: Maybe Hooky could give different answers to the same questions instead of the usual angry gubbins?

Hows this sound, ask me a bunch of questions you would ask Hooky and I bet I could very convincingly mimic them.

So Hooky, how does it feel to be left out of the new incarnation of New Order? And what happened between you and Barney, why do you hate each other so much?

Hooky Bass Monster wrote: Obviously more going on behind the scenes than we'll ever be privy too, but I get the feeling Hooky feels he's been duped. Did I read before that the others bought the trademark to 'New Order', leaving him out which means he has no right to the name?

This could be why he is PISSED!

Maybe so, but he left NO didn't he? Can anybody think of another band/situation where one member leaves but is angry that the rest continued (under the same name) without that member? Of course it may be because he believes that in JD/NO if 1 person leaves they shouldn't continue. That would make more sense if he was consistent (not applying that rule re: Gillian.

Skullcrushed wrote:

mark reed wrote: Maybe Hooky could give different answers to the same questions instead of the usual angry gubbins?

Hows this sound, ask me a bunch of questions you would ask Hooky and I bet I could very convincingly mimic them.

So Hooky, how does it feel to be left out of the new incarnation of New Order? And what happened between you and Barney, why do you hate each other so much?

"Utterly betrayed. They coulda asked me. I'm gonna fuck 'em over anyway I can by buying the rights to the Hacienda. Oh, and Bernard picks his nose on stage when the lights go down and won't tour enough for me."

Debaser wrote: ...if the last NO song was Regret and after that it was a crock of shit, how come NO Mark 2 were far superior to NO Mark 1? Am I missing something?

I think he's referring to the collective musical ability of NO Mark 2 and clearly preferred having Phil in the live band instead of Gillian, regardless of any of the issues he had with Bernard...

Hooky has become *so* boring. He's been talking about the breakup for FIVE YEARS now. Clearly, touring JD is not the therapy he needs.

One Brain wrote: Does the world need another Peter Hook interview?

No. Definitively.

Surface wrote: They are not New Order. They're doing the exact same thing that I'm doing only I don't call myself Joy Division, I celebrate Joy Division's music without the members of Joy Division. And I think people need to realise that. I think that if Bad Lieutenant had been a success Bernard wouldn't have had to big up New Order, to be honest. It's just in the name of financial reasons not artistic."

Why does he keep saying this - its not the same as what he is doing. This is 75% of the original band including the song main song writer with a new bass player. He is 25% of the original band obviously without the song writer with a collection of session musicians - why is he blind to that fact?

A number of bands have carried on without the original members but in the main the writer and singer has remained ie Echo And The Bunnymen, James, REM. A few have been different i agree - The Stranglers being an example.

Totally agreed.

Age of Consent is totally live. Steve counts it in so everyone starts at the right time. Steve's hi hat, snare, and bass drum parts are all played live, and Gillian plays the synth bass part as well as the higher synth string parts live. What do you think is programmed?

Hooky also said that Bad Lieutenant played his bass parts on keyboards, when Tom Chapman was onstage playing them live on a Bass guitar.

I'm pretty sure they have sequenced this now, check the timing out, definitely more of a controlled pace.

He really needs to shut up, he's just coming across as a sad, bitter and petty man. I've lost what little respect I had left for him, most of it went when he started hawking round Joy Division as cabaret act.

johnny james wrote: I'm pretty sure they have sequenced this now, check the timing out, definitely more of a controlled pace.

Listen to any live version recorded with Hooky and he always does the bass lead-in waaay too fast. Steve then had to bring it down to a workable pace when the drums kicked in, so it's probably got a count-in now to keep it a consistent tempo from the start.

50 Pound Note wrote:

johnny james wrote: I'm pretty sure they have sequenced this now, check the timing out, definitely more of a controlled pace.

Listen to any live version recorded with Hooky and he always does the bass lead-in waaay too fast. Steve then had to bring it down to a workable pace when the drums kicked in, so it's probably got a count-in now to keep it a consistent tempo from the start.

Yes, true. But, this does now use backing as well as the live instruments (obviously). There is a percussion type shaker and synth bass in the background. Have a listen to it from Brazil around the 2.50 mark, it's quite clear when the song gets a bit quieter. Steve also goes to single hats instead of double, so you can hear the backing track. Ceremony was another track that was quite often too fast, that doesn't have a count in now, as it doesn't have backing. It will never need it with 3 guitars +bass!.

In 32 years, New Order hardly ever counted songs in. Big deal anyway.

condemnation wrote:

50 Pound Note wrote:

johnny james wrote: I'm pretty sure they have sequenced this now, check the timing out, definitely more of a controlled pace.

Listen to any live version recorded with Hooky and he always does the bass lead-in waaay too fast. Steve then had to bring it down to a workable pace when the drums kicked in, so it's probably got a count-in now to keep it a consistent tempo from the start.

Yes, true. But, this does now use backing as well as the live instruments (obviously). There is a percussion type shaker and synth bass in the background. Have a listen to it from Brazil around the 2.50 mark, it's quite clear when the song gets a bit quieter. Steve also goes to single hats instead of double, so you can hear the backing track. Ceremony was another track that was quite often too fast, that doesn't have a count in now, as it doesn't have backing. It will never need it with 3 guitars +bass!.

In 32 years, New Order hardly ever counted songs in. Big deal anyway.

The synth bass part is live, Gillian plays it, as she always has.

How ever, listening to the UMF pro recording at 2:53 as you say, it does sound like maybe, maybe, there is a very minimal click track running underneath everything. Probably to keep everyone in time. What's wrong with that? Not really different from many other songs they have done live.

Zachery Starkey wrote: Age of Consent was not played thru a sequencer during this last round of New Order dates. What is he talking about?

Zachery Starkey wrote: Age of Consent is totally live. Steve counts it in so everyone starts at the right time. Steve's hi hat, snare, and bass drum parts are all played live, and Gillian plays the synth bass part as well as the higher synth string parts live. What do you think is programmed?

Zachery Starkey wrote: The synth bass part is live, Gillian plays it, as she always has.

Wrong. Pay attention to "AoC" on the official Troxy release, you can hear the sequencer clearly around 2'56"-3'00". It's not the same as low synth parts usually played by Gillian. It sounds completely different.

Aracri wrote:

Zachery Starkey wrote: Age of Consent was not played thru a sequencer during this last round of New Order dates. What is he talking about?

Zachery Starkey wrote: Age of Consent is totally live. Steve counts it in so everyone starts at the right time. Steve's hi hat, snare, and bass drum parts are all played live, and Gillian plays the synth bass part as well as the higher synth string parts live. What do you think is programmed?

Zachery Starkey wrote: The synth bass part is live, Gillian plays it, as she always has.

Wrong. Pay attention to "AoC" on the official Troxy release, you can hear the sequencer clearly around 2'56"-3'00". It's not the same as low synth parts usually played by Gillian. It sounds completely different.

I did say in my last post that the round 2:53 on the UMF festival I could hear the click track they were playing to.

Big deal. It's still a moot point for Hooky to make.