54 replies · 3,305 views
57 votes · voting closed
Luke wrote: I guess Substance did it for me, because I played it sooooo much ... until a couple of years ago
By the way: The Perfect Kiss wasn't missing 40 seconds but 50 seconds on Substance. There were more tracks which were cut from the original 12 inch length: Hurt, Subculture and Shellshock.
You're both wrong, it was actually 44 seconds...
Wow. Can't wait to hear this if you ever post it :)
£50 is performing a public service :)
50 Pound Note wrote:
condemnation wrote:
The Haçienda must be (re)Built wrote: £50's Substance live
Did I miss that download? I thought he was putting it up, don't remember seeing it?
Ha ha! I did that as a podcast in '05 or '06, but it's no longer on my site. It was the running order of Substance, but pulled from various live sources and not a single show.
I have a recording of them performing Substance in order at a single gig, recorded September of '87 in Los Angeles. Tony Wilson introduces them, and they encore with Joy Division tracks (a rarity then). I'm going to post it at Recycle, but it requires some editing and I haven't gotten around to it.
Substance for me too. How anyone can say any of the songs on cd1 are not good must be an idiot. You'd saw your right arm off (or whatever is your wanking arm) for new order to produce songs of this calibre these days.
Thieves like us was the song that got me into new order in the first place.
Burt Burterson wrote: Just checked the concert browser, and it looks like its Irvine Meadows, Sept 12.1987, with an encore of Atmosphere, LWTUA and Sister Ray. Would love to hear it.
You are correct, sir.
When the 2-disc editions came out 3 years ago, the bonus discs were originally slated to be live shows, like the Joy Division reissues from '07. This particular show was earmarked for a possible inclusion.
50 Pound Note wrote:
Burt Burterson wrote: Just checked the concert browser, and it looks like its Irvine Meadows, Sept 12.1987, with an encore of Atmosphere, LWTUA and Sister Ray. Would love to hear it.
You are correct, sir.
When the 2-disc editions came out 3 years ago, the bonus discs were originally slated to be live shows, like the Joy Division reissues from '07. This particular show was earmarked for a possible inclusion.
excellent. Got the 1989 Irvine show, and that is top notch as well. Seems like they record good bootlegs at Irvine meadows....
Single cause of Ceremony 7". Never appreciated the 12" that much with Gillian on rhythm guitar!
Did not enjoy Substance version when I listened to it for the first time in 1988. Just became a fan of this song after listening to the Still live version with Joy Division in 1990 
Substance was the most purposeful compilation:
Substance. On cassette. Not the cut-down CD version. There is no question about it.
Or perhaps the video version... always loved those little bits of "The Happy One".
Substance wins hands down for me. There are a few reasons. Most importantly it was what got me into New Order in the first place. My mate had True Faith 12" and i taped it. then he got substance vinyl and i taped that too. i hated the first 3 tracks for a couple of years (sounded too samey).
about 1991 i bought the CD version and realised the beauty of the first 3 tracks. i think the 12 songs on the A side are the strongest by any band ever (yes even U2!).
i still think today that that album has some of the most beautiful, lush music ever made (period).
the B side is pretty tasty too. not so much the instrumental versions but for Lonesome Tonight, 1963, Shame of the nation, kiss of death and procession and mesh.
i think this is my favourite album of all time. Technique my fave studio album too.
johnny wrote: The trouble with Substance is its got that crap version of Ceremony on it
The far superior version in my book. the other (gillian less one) is all over the place.
NO Regret wrote:
johnny wrote: The trouble with Substance is its got that crap version of Ceremony on it
The far superior version in my book. the other (gillian less one) is all over the place.
It is all over the place, but far better vibe and atmosphere, to the re-recording. That to me is too ironed out.
I had never heard that second version with Gillian, until I purchased Substance in 1987. The 12" of that, with the white sleeve was long deleted by then.
condemnation wrote:
NO Regret wrote:
johnny wrote: The trouble with Substance is its got that crap version of Ceremony on it
The far superior version in my book. the other (gillian less one) is all over the place.
It is all over the place, but far better vibe and atmosphere, to the re-recording. That to me is too ironed out.
I had never heard that second version with Gillian, until I purchased Substance in 1987. The 12" of that, with the white sleeve was long deleted by then.
each to their own. i hate the original version. too tinny, the channels keep swapping, and the music and vocals are inaudible. and it seems slower.
NO Regret wrote:
condemnation wrote:
NO Regret wrote:
johnny wrote: The trouble with Substance is its got that crap version of Ceremony on it
The far superior version in my book. the other (gillian less one) is all over the place.
It is all over the place, but far better vibe and atmosphere, to the re-recording. That to me is too ironed out.
I had never heard that second version with Gillian, until I purchased Substance in 1987. The 12" of that, with the white sleeve was long deleted by then.
each to their own. i hate the original version. too tinny, the channels keep swapping, and the music and vocals are inaudible. and it seems slower.
Yup, but you have said above you found the first three tracks 'too samey'.
How can you think Ceremony sounds like EGG sounds like Temptation?
I can see the similarity between the latter two, but to compare them to Ceremony? 
El Jarvo wrote:
NO Regret wrote:
condemnation wrote:
NO Regret wrote:
johnny wrote: The trouble with Substance is its got that crap version of Ceremony on it
The far superior version in my book. the other (gillian less one) is all over the place.
It is all over the place, but far better vibe and atmosphere, to the re-recording. That to me is too ironed out.
I had never heard that second version with Gillian, until I purchased Substance in 1987. The 12" of that, with the white sleeve was long deleted by then.
each to their own. i hate the original version. too tinny, the channels keep swapping, and the music and vocals are inaudible. and it seems slower.
Yup, but you have said above you found the first three tracks 'too samey'.
How can you think Ceremony sounds like EGG sounds like Temptation? I can see the similarity between the latter two, but to compare them to Ceremony?
because they both centre around the C and F chords. plus i was a nipper at the time.
Hicksy wrote: Substance for me too. How anyone can say any of the songs on cd1 are not good must be an idiot. You'd saw your right arm off (or whatever is your wanking arm) for new order to produce songs of this calibre these days.
Thieves like us was the song that got me into new order in the first place.
It's actually the same for me. When 'Shellshock' came out in 1986, I purchased that 12". The intrumental of 'Thieves like us' was on the b-side. It gave me another dimension of the band, that I hadn't heard before as a 15 year old kid.
Substance for me as well. First purchase from the band, wore out 2 cassettes before I got the cd.
As far as the other collections go, I think The Best Of is okay, I actually like the UK version vs the US version. If they would have sequenced the tracks better on the US version it could have made a big difference. I never listen to Rest Of, or International. Singles is a decent compilation, but I like the full length versions. I never bought Total, just downloaded Hellbent...As far as Retro goes, CD 1 is about the best single disc collection you could get.
One good thing about Itunes, I made my own version of Substance using all the full length versions and all the Bsides that appeared on the Factory tape...
Has anybody here brought out or produced a SECOND VOLUME of Substance, yet?
As in - SUBSTANCE 1987-1990 (the Factory releases only)
or - SUBSTANCE 1987 - 2005 (everything since)
If not, then what are you waiting for??
:p 
Substance gets my vote as well. My first album was Republic, so when I got Substance as a second album, it revealed a completely different side of the band. To listen to tracks like Procession, Lonesome Tonight and even Ceremony was amazing. No one else made these incredible, meandering, moody pop songs and it was great to hear this completely different side of New Order. A lot of the stuff on Substance makes you look further back into the history of New Order and ultimately you end up listening to Joy Division. That can't be a bad thing.
Best of and International were quite good as well.
TF.
Technique. But seriously folks, I still enjoy Substance most of all. Obviously it cuts off 87, but it has most of the development of the band while Best Of went for the hit-friendly Xmas market, Rest Of is not worthy of the NO banner (except for those mixes I'd already purchased on singles) and the rest was just London tryna make money. Singles is as definitive as it gets but the full-length versions from the golden years still get my vote. And Total ends with a track they rejected first time around!
Substance- 1987.
Looking for set list, footage, bootleg from the Portland Oregon show I saw in 1989..... anyone?
50 Pound Note wrote:
condemnation wrote:
The Haçienda must be (re)Built wrote: £50's Substance live
Did I miss that download? I thought he was putting it up, don't remember seeing it?
Ha ha! I did that as a podcast in '05 or '06, but it's no longer on my site. It was the running order of Substance, but pulled from various live sources and not a single show.
I have a recording of them performing Substance in order at a single gig, recorded September of '87 in Los Angeles. Tony Wilson introduces them, and they encore with Joy Division tracks (a rarity then). I'm going to post it at Recycle, but it requires some editing and I haven't gotten around to it.
Remember that one. Think it has Atmosphere and LWTUA as encore.
Substance rightly is streets ahead and tbh it has managed to dodge a best of stigma and seems to be more treated as an LP.
Retro is the best mix of the bands works but should be at 4 cd's
