In the Hands of the Lawyers
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NotAMod wrote:
Big Mouth Julio wrote: Talked with Potty a few months ago
Freudian slip?
No, ya arse actually 
Snorrimon wrote:
johnny wrote:
NotAMod wrote: Julio, stop trying to rip off 79 order by putting in lyrics at the end of your post.
You don't do it half as well as he does
Quite agree.
Leave that sort of thing to 79 Order and his genius lyric choices.
That was one of 79 order's... It just got lost in the post...
Snorri xxx
Oh! I always knew your preference for English men! 
Big Mouth Julio wrote:
Snorrimon wrote:
johnny wrote:
NotAMod wrote: Julio, stop trying to rip off 79 order by putting in lyrics at the end of your post.
You don't do it half as well as he does
Quite agree.
Leave that sort of thing to 79 Order and his genius lyric choices.
That was one of 79 order's... It just got lost in the post...
Snorri xxx
Oh! I always knew your preference for English men!
I suspect if Ally ever got forced into homosexuality he would prefer an Englishman with a sense of humour, over a Brazilian midget.
Burt Burterson wrote:
Big Mouth Julio wrote:
Snorrimon wrote:
johnny wrote:
NotAMod wrote: Julio, stop trying to rip off 79 order by putting in lyrics at the end of your post.
You don't do it half as well as he does
Quite agree.
Leave that sort of thing to 79 Order and his genius lyric choices.
That was one of 79 order's... It just got lost in the post...
Snorri xxx
Oh! I always knew your preference for English men!
I suspect if Ally ever got forced into homosexuality he would prefer an Englishman with a sense of humour, over a Brazilian midget.
Wrote above the spirit of Fred Mercury mixed with the blood of Elton John and George Michael
New Zealand Auckland Vector Arena, 27th February 2012
Australia Melbourne Festival Hall, 1st March 2012 Brisbane Future Music Festival, Doomben Racecourse, 3rd March 2012 Perth Future Music Festival, Arena Joondalup, 4th March 2012 Sydney Hordern Pavilion, 7th March 2012 Sydney Future Music Festival, Royal Randwick Racecourse, 10th March 2012 Melbourne Future Music Festival, Flemington Racecourse, 11th March 2012 Adelaide Future Music Festival, Ellis Park, 12th March 2012
US Miami Ultra Music Festival, Friday 23rd March 2012
UK Manchester Apollo, 26th April 2012 **SOLD OUT** Manchester Apollo, 27th April 2012 Birmingham Ballroom, 29th April 2012 London Brixton Academy, 2nd May 2012 **SOLD OUT** London Brixton Academy, 3rd May 2012 Glasgow Academy, 5th May 2012
Europe Nuits Sonores Festival, Lyon, France, 20th May 2012 Exit Festival, Novo Sad, Serbia, 12th-15th July 2012 Benicàssim Festival, Spain, 12th-15th July 2012
No cease and desist yet. Better lawyers needed?
Genetic wrote:
Tarbox23 wrote:
but to most folks (i.e. beyond us nuts in this forum) Bernard Sumner IS New Order. he sings the songs.
True but if he roped Pottsy in on vocals it'd sound pretty similar. Look, this is all hypothetical bollocks about a bollocks situation.
Im out.
I made the point in another thread (Monaco gigs I believe) that Hooky will need to draft someone else to do vocals if he wants to tour playing New Order material. I've been to a number of Hooky gigs but I would not pay to hear him do New Order vocals while Jack plays the bass. If Hooky is not exclusively playing bass, I have no interest in hearing New Order selections performed by him.
I'm with Al; New New Order should do something like rename themselves NewOrder2.0. Pretty simple. 75% of New Order are still in the band, so you'd have to say Hooky only has a 25% chance of shutting them down.
Hooky said he'd "left the band". That means "the band" hadn't stopped; he'd just "left".
Hooky n the light do a good job, NewOrder2.0 (well 3.0 to be fair seeing as we had the non Gillian line up) do a good job too. Just reach a compromise.
Sad to hear this news.
does this mean that they'll have to split the name? Sumner and Co can be called "NEW ORD.." and Hooky can tour called as "....ER."
The fact that Bernard and Co didn't attempt to carry on as New Order when Hooky first announced that the band had split suggests that they did reluctantly accept his argument that without Hooky there is no "New Order", I guess the fact that BL got a lukewarm reception made them look into the possibility of carrying on as NO without him and brought matters to where they now stand.
cranelane wrote: The fact that Bernard and Co didn't attempt to carry on as New Order when Hooky first announced that the band had split suggests that they did reluctantly accept his argument that without Hooky there is no "New Order", I guess the fact that BL got a lukewarm reception made them look into the possibility of carrying on as NO without him and brought matters to where they now stand.
I suppose that is one way to look at it. Another is that as Gillian was involving herself in BL sessions it made sense to return to playing under the name of the best band in the world.
Hooky is a legend, but he left.
I think it was due to legal issues. Gillian coming back meant that the % of original members swung the issue so they could use the name again from what i have heard.
cranelane wrote: The fact that Bernard and Co didn't attempt to carry on as New Order when Hooky first announced that the band had split suggests that they did reluctantly accept his argument that without Hooky there is no "New Order", I guess the fact that BL got a lukewarm reception made them look into the possibility of carrying on as NO without him and brought matters to where they now stand.
Ironic that Hookys current band, The Light, is named after that which he can't apparently see… as has been said in another context, he is entitled to his own opinion on the matter, but not to his own facts.
cranelane wrote: The fact that Bernard and Co didn't attempt to carry on as New Order when Hooky first announced that the band had split suggests that they did reluctantly accept his argument that without Hooky there is no "New Order", I guess the fact that BL got a lukewarm reception made them look into the possibility of carrying on as NO without him and brought matters to where they now stand.
I disagree. Steve and Gillian weren't initially involved with the project so Bernard rightly chose not to use the New Order name.
Andy wrote:
cranelane wrote: The fact that Bernard and Co didn't attempt to carry on as New Order when Hooky first announced that the band had split suggests that they did reluctantly accept his argument that without Hooky there is no "New Order", I guess the fact that BL got a lukewarm reception made them look into the possibility of carrying on as NO without him and brought matters to where they now stand.
I disagree. Steve and Gillian weren't initially involved with the project so Bernard rightly chose not to use the New Order name.
This is the voice of Truth, not the song :p
Although I understand the band rightfully playing live as New Order, I sincerely hope they stick to their pact, oath or whatever and don't record new stuff under that name. It is not New Order without Hooky, it is not New Order without Gillian. And most importantly, it is not New Order with Phil Cunningham filling in. I stick to this point of view and try to erase from memory that awful last album. From cover to lyrics to music. Goodbye New Order, hello Bad Lieutenant! I hope.
What pact is that? I want them to record as New Order as the only difference is the bass player is different and towards the end of the last recordings it felt that thay had to compromise simply so he could get his trade mark sound on there, but hey - time moves on and with the influence of younger members like Tom and Phil as well as Gillian being back , we may all be suprised with waht they come up with.
Just my view though
Leo Order wrote: Although I understand the band rightfully playing live as New Order, I sincerely hope they stick to their pact, oath or whatever and don't record new stuff under that name. It is not New Order without Hooky, it is not New Order without Gillian. And most importantly, it is not New Order with Phil Cunningham filling in. I stick to this point of view and try to erase from memory that awful last album. From cover to lyrics to music. Goodbye New Order, hello Bad Lieutenant! I hope.
By that logic they shouldn't have released get ready or wftsc without Gillian.
Makes no sense does it? New album please as new order.
Agree with them playing live using the New Order name but never releasing new studio stuff. Just my opinion 
Surface wrote: What pact is that? I want them to record as New Order as the only difference is the bass player is different and towards the end of the last recordings it felt that thay had to compromise simply so he could get his trade mark sound on there, but hey - time moves on and with the influence of younger members like Tom and Phil as well as Gillian being back , we may all be suprised with waht they come up with.
Just my view though
To change the name of the band if any of the original members left. It's not New Order without Hooky's bass.
This "pact" is a lovely rock'n'roll tale but unfortunately unless it exists as a legal document with specific stipulations it'll mean diddly-squat in the real world. We all know how shite they were with paperwork back in the Factory days and verbal contracts aren't worth the oxygen they're spoken with.
The only relevant documentation which probably exists for post-1992 New Order would be from when they signed to London Records/Warners and went from being on a "social experiment" to being on a profit-driven label. That's where all the song writing percentages will have been divvied up and other terms agreed. If that contract backs up what Hook is trying to do then perhaps he has a case, who knows.
Either way, we're 31 years on from the last time this "pact" was allegedly used. All of them are a hell of a lot older, approaching retirement, less youthfully idealistic and aside from anything else nobody actually died this time. Essentially, one member couldn't get on with the others and left; the democratic will of the remaining 75% was to continue.
As R.E.M. said around the time Bill Berry left in 1997 "A three legged dog is still a dog".
I'd be amazed if this got anywhere near the courts, frankly.
Hicksy wrote: By that logic they shouldn't have released get ready or wftsc without Gillian.
Makes no sense does it? New album please as new order.
As far as I know, Gillian was still a part of the band when they recorded Get Ready, she just didn't make part of the tour due to serious health issues. As for WFTSC, I couldn't care less about that album. I vote for a new album as Bad Lieutenant, with Gillian replacing Phil Cunningham. And if they really don't wanna let go of those Smiths-esque guitar lines, I really hope they invite Johnny Marr, instead!
BigDipper wrote: I can understand why Hooky is upset but it does appear to be a case of bruised ego more than anything else. The rest of New Order appear to have the right to do what they are doing just as he does with The Light without being slagged off. Personally I like both but it is certainly true that the current New Order are not the same force without Hooky. He was probably the major factor that made them stand out. It is sad the way things have turned out but then, much as I love them I wish New Order never existed if you catch my drift.
He left his problem LONG LIVE THE NEW NEW ORDER
Bad Lieutenant + Gillian playing as New Order, that would be absolutely fine by me. It doesn't seem right that one person namely Hooky can dictate what name they play as, especially when as has now become apparent, this now has vast financial implications. Hooky's tactics are classic dog in a manger. Moreover, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but he apparently left of his own free will. New Order is a well known name, a name with emotive associations and a span of history in pop culture in its own right, regardless of its derivations - Bad Lieutenant although a brilliant name for a band, not so much. Songs released under the New Order name will receive far greater attention than the exact same songs would if released under the Bad Lieutenant name. Guys of that age cannot be expected to start afresh like teenagers, even if they don't seem to me to be as nearing their dotage as would appear from some comments here! If the others (whoever they are, I haven't been keeping track) carry on as New Order and for some reason it doesn't work out, that will be obvious soon enough anyways, and I daresay that would be the end of New Order, but it would be a real end, and not this artificial legal-technicality excuse for a reason.
bernard, stephen ,gillian ,phil, and tom will hopefully write more songs. there sure as hell isn't anyone else in today's music world making music i care to hear. if danny kirwan returns then all is right with the world. and for you fans that hate wftsc, i hope bernard arranges longer versions of dracula's castle , jet stream, i told you so , guilt, working overtime, hellbent, such a good thing ,and world in motion in gaelic. and no, echo and the bunnymen are not creating anything new and interesting anymore .
NO Regret wrote: you were standing in the courtroom when i saw your face i couldnt look at you i guess i knew it but i never realised that theres no proof and im down and all alone with the baselines i dont own you can take that away and with every pound i waste, your lawyer says i have no case, new order lives another day
and i was touched by the hand of lawyers i never knew it what aload of toss
ha ha, I love it.
