What now for New Order?

http://www.virginmedia.com/music/features/what-now-for-new-order.php

Thirty three years into their career, have New Order reached an impasse? What will probably be their last album with bassist Peter Hook is an extended EP of rarities – stuff they've already recorded and reworked. Will there ever be anything new from the band who brought us hits like Blue Monday and True Faith. Luke Turner examines if and why we still need them.

...Are they still relevant? It sometimes feels that there are so many heritage groups going that new bands must struggle to get a way in. And it's fair to say that those who just wearily trawl around the lucrative gig circuit without writing any new material ought to be sent out to pasture - here's looking at you, Pixies.

But now Peter Hook has quit New Order - and has wasted no time in putting across his side of the story - the rest of the band have things to prove: That they're not spent as a creative force, and can carry on without him. Hopefully this will give them the creative impetus they need to go on and write more great New Order material that'll hopefully continue to evolve their sound.

New Order's story is a long, tortuous and, at times painful one. As everyone knows, they formed after the suicide of Ian Curtis put an end to Joy Division - at first, it wasn't even that clear that Bernard Sumner would end up as their singer. For the last thirty years, New Order's career has been a very British mess of making do, including bankruptcy and the occasional blizzard of acrimony and dubious financial decisions. The Blue Monday sleeve that lost the band a fortune merely the most famous anecdote, followed by the painful collapse of Factory Records. It'd be a shame if they were now to end with a bitter split and one mini LP (good though it is) of outtakes.

The love for New Order stretches across music boundaries

The first time I saw New Order was in Finsbury Park in 2002 when I was a skinny, feckless youth. It had been raining all day, and the park was a mud bath. Yet when New Order came onstage, the skies suddenly cleared, Concord flew overhead en-route to Heathrow, and when the band played Joy Division songs for the first time in years, the vibes in the crowd went up to 11.

Halfway through Bizarre Love Triangle, my leg felt strangely warm… I turned round and realised 19 stone of skinhead lunatic was urinating on my leg. Even that couldn't ruin what was an amazing gig. The New Order crowd is a really diverse one - there are the now-affluent middle class males who were into them back in the day, the 80s rave casualties, loutish indie kids, techno heads, pop fans - New Order have something for everyone.

No Hooky, but what about Gillian?

For many years, New Order were without their fourth member, synth player Gillian Gilbert. Funnily enough, back then you didn't find people screaming "It's not New Order without Gillian" as they do now about Peter Hook leaving the band, and the rest carrying on under the New Order name. This seems to be a rather unpleasant case of rockist sexism - we can't do without the big lumbering bloke playing a bass guitar down by his knees, but the woman delivering the killer-synth lines isn't important.

The underrated powerhouse of New Order is man machine Stephen Morris - he's the one who had the geeky fascination with electronics and drum machines. Morris and Gilbert (who are partners and live on a farm outside Macclesfield) have previously recorded albums under the name The Other Two (a pointed dig at those who thought them anonymous compared to Hook and Sumner). The absence of Hook, and presence of Gillian working with Morris and Sumner, is going to be interesting as New Order continue.

Why we need New Order today

There aren't many groups who've managed to combine art (see the bonkers video for True Faith) and pop (the only decent World Cup song ever) quite like New Order. For whatever reason, at the moment there seems to be a view that art and pop are chalk and well, cheese. Electronic pop at the moment relies on steroid beats sourced from the sort of music that used to make us cringe on holiday visits to European clubs, and the curse of processed, Auto-tune vocals shows no sign of going away.

There's also been a separation between club music and what gets on the radio - gone are the days when a record could get played in sweaty basements, before making their way to the top of the charts. Could a rejuvenated New Order come up with new material that's as smart and accessible as their 80s heyday bring some intelligence, wit and genuine dancefloor energy back to mainstream British music?

Do you think New Order can continue without Peter Hook? Is it time the band called it a day? Let us know on Twitter @MusicOnVM. .

If you want your New Order sound, but still want the Peter Hook sound you could always try Exchange

wrote: Why we need New Order today

There aren't many groups who've managed to combine art (see the bonkers video for True Faith) and pop (the only decent World Cup song ever) quite like New Order. For whatever reason, at the moment there seems to be a view that art and pop are chalk and well, cheese. Electronic pop at the moment relies on steroid beats sourced from the sort of music that used to make us cringe on holiday visits to European clubs, and the curse of processed, Auto-tune vocals shows no sign of going away.

There's also been a separation between club music and what gets on the radio - gone are the days when a record could get played in sweaty basements, before making their way to the top of the charts. Could a rejuvenated New Order come up with new material that's as smart and accessible as their 80s heyday bring some intelligence, wit and genuine dancefloor energy back to mainstream British music?

Not sure a bunch of nearly pensioners are the ones likely to do all that for you m'afraid. Besides they've done all that once. Not their fault if it all got fucked again.

Keep the links coming though, Linus.

Linus Solanki wrote: http://www.virginmedia.com/music/features/what-now-for-new-order.php

No Hooky, but what about Gillian?

For many years, New Order were without their fourth member, synth player Gillian Gilbert. Funnily enough, back then you didn't find people screaming "It's not New Order without Gillian" as they do now about Peter Hook leaving the band, and the rest carrying on under the New Order name. This seems to be a rather unpleasant case of rockist sexism - we can't do without the big lumbering bloke playing a bass guitar down by his knees, but the woman delivering the killer-synth lines isn't important.

.

Nice to see a journalist finally mentioning this. Gillian's keyboards are as essential to New Order's sound as Hooky's bass. I for one was never taken in by the lumbering bass lad onstage...what drew me to New Order was Sumner's voice, Gillian's Synth melodies, and Steve's drumming.

Zachery Allan Starkey

ZASmusic wrote:

Linus Solanki wrote: http://www.virginmedia.com/music/features/what-now-for-new-order.php

No Hooky, but what about Gillian?

For many years, New Order were without their fourth member, synth player Gillian Gilbert. Funnily enough, back then you didn't find people screaming "It's not New Order without Gillian" as they do now about Peter Hook leaving the band, and the rest carrying on under the New Order name. This seems to be a rather unpleasant case of rockist sexism - we can't do without the big lumbering bloke playing a bass guitar down by his knees, but the woman delivering the killer-synth lines isn't important.

.

Nice to see a journalist finally mentioning this. Gillian's keyboards are as essential to New Order's sound as Hooky's bass. I for one was never taken in by the lumbering bass lad onstage...what drew me to New Order was Sumner's voice, Gillian's Synth melodies, and Steve's drumming.

This is an interesting point, I can only imagine it's because Hook is considered a more distinctive instrumentalist / performer...? I'm not saying he is of course, I'm just wondering why yes, there is this discrepancy in people's reactions. I don't think it's a question of sexism, is it? To be honest while I've become a Hooky fan I never used to like his look-at-me stance either, I just found it intrusive to the group dynamic and strangely inappropriate to the actual music. I remember when Regret made TOTP at uni, a friend said 'I saw that band you're always going on about - nice song but what's wrong with the guy with the bass?' For many it was a high point of the shows though!

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

ZASmusic wrote:

Linus Solanki wrote: http://www.virginmedia.com/music/features/what-now-for-new-order.php

No Hooky, but what about Gillian?

For many years, New Order were without their fourth member, synth player Gillian Gilbert. Funnily enough, back then you didn't find people screaming "It's not New Order without Gillian" as they do now about Peter Hook leaving the band, and the rest carrying on under the New Order name. This seems to be a rather unpleasant case of rockist sexism - we can't do without the big lumbering bloke playing a bass guitar down by his knees, but the woman delivering the killer-synth lines isn't important.

.

Nice to see a journalist finally mentioning this. Gillian's keyboards are as essential to New Order's sound as Hooky's bass. I for one was never taken in by the lumbering bass lad onstage...what drew me to New Order was Sumner's voice, Gillian's Synth melodies, and Steve's drumming.

Zachery Allan Starkey

This is an interesting point, I can only imagine it's because Hook is considered a more distinctive instrumentalist / performer...? I'm not saying he is of course, I'm just wondering why yes, there is this discrepancy in people's reactions. I don't think it's a question of sexism, is it?

It is evident...in footage from New Order's various festival appearances from 2012, Gillian gets by far the least amount of screen time. One example...during the synth solo in 586, they will often show Phil or Barney riffing on their guitars...even though Gillian is standing under a spotlight playing a fairly tough keyboard solo.

In the world of rock music, female musicians are often taken less seriously than male musicians, and that is a form of sexism. Hooky's stage presence and onstage mugging was great, but they weren't the main thing in New Order that I identified with. His bass lines, of course, were essential...as is what Steve, Bernard, and Gillian bring to the band.

Zachery Allan Starkey

ZASmusic wrote:

Linus Solanki wrote: http://www.virginmedia.com/music/features/what-now-for-new-order.php

No Hooky, but what about Gillian?

For many years, New Order were without their fourth member, synth player Gillian Gilbert. Funnily enough, back then you didn't find people screaming "It's not New Order without Gillian" as they do now about Peter Hook leaving the band, and the rest carrying on under the New Order name. This seems to be a rather unpleasant case of rockist sexism - we can't do without the big lumbering bloke playing a bass guitar down by his knees, but the woman delivering the killer-synth lines isn't important.

.

Nice to see a journalist finally mentioning this. Gillian's keyboards are as essential to New Order's sound as Hooky's bass. I for one was never taken in by the lumbering bass lad onstage...what drew me to New Order was Sumner's voice, Gillian's Synth melodies, and Steve's drumming.

Zachery Allan Starkey

Hooky is responsible for the bass guitar in New Order, so we can hear his contribution in every song on which he plays and note his absence and its effect on the songs where he has been left out of the mix, but as for the synths, who can tell whether any particular synth melody that you care to mention was actually created by Gillian or by Bernard as they both play keyboards?

That may be true that Gillian has been unfairly perceived, or maybe some make too many assumptions. How do fans know how much she added, or didn't add? How much did she write? Did she actually play everything in the studio? Do we really know? What can one assume? In Gillian's favor, if you compare 80s New Order to Bernard's work with Electronic, to my ears Electronic doesn't sound nearly as unique. Doesn't sound like New Order. Gillian quite frankly showed little public personality or opinions, acted like a wallflower on stage, which is a factor. Gillian retired and one presumes she wanted New Order to go on, which is another factor.

Hooky was one of the three members from Joy Division, so he is more famous. He has been more of a public figure. He had a live stage presence. His leaving the band was obviously rather acrimonious... Hooky did not want New Order to continue, a different situation from Gillian.

I do think that many fans think of New Order as different from one of those bands which have many band members leaving and joining every few years around one dominant leader, like The Fall or The Cure. I like to think that New Order was an ensemble joint effort, not a backing band for Bernard.

Bernard and Peter have made much better music together than they did seperate, and they are well over the creative hill after 30 years in the business. The Lost Sirens were recorded like 9 years ago. My expectations for new New Order circa 2014 are very low. Maybe to be positive, Gillian and Steve will get inspired and a new record will not be just a bland middle of the road rock record like Never Cry Another Tear. Not that Hooky did better, the Freebass album should have never been more than a rumour.

Some interesting points put forward. I hope its not the end of the band, having been a fan for 25 years. I think all the members are equally important. I have only been lucky enough to catch them live twice. First at the Troxy in Dec 2011 and then Hyde Park at the Olympics last year. Was really great but not the same without Hooky. Didn't like it when Gillian left either - glad she's back. Have enjoyed Lost Sirens but it would be nice to hear some new material.

About time someone spoke up for Gillian. Does anyone think that N.O. would've have been as interesting without her synth & guitar flourishes? To try and pre-emptively justify Hooky's "It's not New Order without me but it was without her", he's been belittling her contribution. Shame. I can't see why there won't be new New Order material (Bernard has put out a record every three or so years fairly consistently for the past 20 or so years), but they really do need to move beyond the "two years in a studio costing £500k" bullshit as it will bankrupt them : and the BL LP cost £30k, and sounded just fine.

0_o wrote: Maybe to be positive, Gillian and Steve will get inspired.

Not sure many people agree with me but I really liked 'Swing' which is the most recent new music that Gillian & Steve released. Bernard has talked about going electronic, so I'd love it if they picked up from Swing and did something similar. It might not be accessible to the masses but it would be interesting. It might also negate the problem of: what kind of bass is on the record. Answer: electronic bass.

As well as G&S (especially Steve) being involved with Factory Floor, I've noticed that Gllian has become quite friendly with Skrillex in recent times. If we hear any insane dubstep on the new stuff, we can assume that's Gillian! The track below is kinda fun. Great lyrics...

Debaser wrote:

0_o wrote: Maybe to be positive, Gillian and Steve will get inspired.

Not sure many people agree with me but I really liked 'Swing' which is the most recent new music that Gillian & Steve released. Bernard has talked about going electronic, so I'd love it if they picked up from Swing and did something similar. It might not be accessible to the masses but it would be interesting. It might also negate the problem of: what kind of bass is on the record. Answer: electronic bass.

As well as G&S (especially Steve) being involved with Factory Floor, I've noticed that Gllian has become quite friendly with Skrillex in recent times. If we hear any insane dubstep on the new stuff, we can assume that's Gillian! The track below is kinda fun. Great lyrics...

💀 Dubstep? No way.... New Order would've sold themselves out too much if they actually try to make crap like dubstep.

markreed wrote: About time someone spoke up for Gillian. Does anyone think that N.O. would've have been as interesting without her synth & guitar flourishes? To try and pre-emptively justify Hooky's "It's not New Order without me but it was without her", he's been belittling her contribution. Shame. I can't see why there won't be new New Order material (Bernard has put out a record every three or so years fairly consistently for the past 20 or so years), but they really do need to move beyond the "two years in a studio costing £500k" bullshit as it will bankrupt them : and the BL LP cost £30k, and sounded just fine.

Agreed that it's not the amount of money spent on a recording studio that matters. So they spent too much money in the recording process of WFTSC. OK, well move on and don't make that same mistake again.

leather-girl wrote:

💀 Dubstep? No way.... New Order would've sold themselves out too much if they actually try to make crap like dubstep.

I was having a bit of fun with that. But dismissing an entire genre Leather Girl? Hmm, i dunno. It's good to keep an open mind, tends to lead to creativity.

Debaser wrote:

leather-girl wrote:

💀 Dubstep? No way.... New Order would've sold themselves out too much if they actually try to make crap like dubstep.

I was having a bit of fun with that. But dismissing an entire genre Leather Girl? Hmm, i dunno. It's good to keep an open mind, tends to lead to creativity.

I'm quite open minded, but I hate dubstep and it's so overrated as a genre. Imagine New Order pandering to the dubstep fanatics...just stupid indeed.

I think they should get Stuart Price to produce their next album, he's done a good job with 586, it seems to me to be a good direction for them to go in, bt still keep a mix of the guitar based tracks too, I think it would be silly for them to try to keep the hooky bass sound they need to move on if they want to retain any credibility, and Hooky would never shut up about it too, as much as I love his playing he does go on!

Anyone here worked with Bernard Sumner? So shut up!

He thinks he is the owner of the world. Gillian and Steve are working with him for only one reason, MONEY!!!

Big Mouth Julio wrote: Anyone here worked with Bernard Sumner? So shut up!

He thinks he is the owner of the world. Gillian and Steve are working with him for only one reason, MONEY!!!

I went to see Hooky on Thursday night. The tickets weren't free. He thought he was king of the band. Surprised?

Big Mouth Julio wrote: Anyone here worked with Bernard Sumner? So shut up!

He thinks he is the owner of the world. Gillian and Steve are working with him for only one reason, MONEY!!!

Can see Phil and Tom doing it for the money but come on Steve and Gillian - have you seen their house?

NotAMod wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: Anyone here worked with Bernard Sumner? So shut up!

He thinks he is the owner of the world. Gillian and Steve are working with him for only one reason, MONEY!!!

Have you worked with Bernard Sumner, Julio? If not, how are you qualified to say he "thinks he is the owner of the world"?

Oh, and from a moderator point of view please don't tell people on here to "shut up".

I'm just confused by Julio's post. He first seems to be defending Barney then seems to be slagging him off :scratcheshead:

The only reason anybody works for anybody is money, whats your point? I was actually considering how stable the N.O. lineup has been in the past 30 years - in all that time, only one person in the band has left because they were fucked off with Barney.

leather-girl wrote:

Debaser wrote:

leather-girl wrote:

💀 Dubstep? No way.... New Order would've sold themselves out too much if they actually try to make crap like dubstep.

I was having a bit of fun with that. But dismissing an entire genre Leather Girl? Hmm, i dunno. It's good to keep an open mind, tends to lead to creativity.

I'm quite open minded, but I hate dubstep and it's so overrated as a genre. Imagine New Order pandering to the dubstep fanatics...just stupid indeed.

We're actually living in a post-dubstep world now.

NotAMod wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: Anyone here worked with Bernard Sumner? So shut up!

He thinks he is the owner of the world. Gillian and Steve are working with him for only one reason, MONEY!!!

Have you worked with Bernard Sumner, Julio? If not, how are you qualified to say he "thinks he is the owner of the world"?

The quick answer is you're not and perhaps even less qualified to have an opinion on Sumner because you're an out-and-out Hooky sycophant.

Oh, and from a moderator point of view please don't tell people on here to "shut up".

Ok Moderator. But you cannot also call me sycophant, respect me! Alright??? I cannot say shut up, I am very sorry. Is this a forum that we can express our opinions or not? I don't like Bernard Sumner as a person. But like Gillian and Steve. Oh, Phil too.

NotAMod wrote: I think you're probably wasting time trying to get sense out of his posts, Johnny

Respect, please!

Do not like your sarcastic jokes. Remember you are the MODERATOR, ok?

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

NotAMod wrote: I think you're probably wasting time trying to get sense out of his posts, Johnny

Respect, please!

Do not like your sarcastic jokes. Remember you are the MODERATOR, ok?

He didn't seem too sarcastic IMO.

surface wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: Anyone here worked with Bernard Sumner? So shut up!

He thinks he is the owner of the world. Gillian and Steve are working with him for only one reason, MONEY!!!

Can see Phil and Tom doing it for the money but come on Steve and Gillian - have you seen their house?

Hi mate.

They had very bad health problems on their family recently. Gillian had problems, her daddy passed away last year, they have a children that needs heath care. I am not calling them mercenaries, ever! They need the money to pay the bills like anyone of us!

Love "The Other Two"!

leather-girl wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

NotAMod wrote: I think you're probably wasting time trying to get sense out of his posts, Johnny

Respect, please!

Do not like your sarcastic jokes. Remember you are the MODERATOR, ok?

He didn't seem too sarcastic IMO.

OK it is yours, I respect but it is worse than sarcastic indeed. Nobody is the owner of the truth.

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I don't like Bernard Sumner as a person. But like Gillian and Steve. Oh, Phil too.

Have you actually met Bernard Sumner?😕

😎

Nick King wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I don't like Bernard Sumner as a person. But like Gillian and Steve. Oh, Phil too.

Have you actually met Bernard Sumner?😕

😎

3 times. I meant his and Hooky's EGOS are some of the worst I have ever seen.

Big Mouth Julio wrote: 3 times. I meant his and Hooky's EGOS are some of the worst I have ever seen.

Was just wondering how you'd come to the conclusion that you hated Bernard Sumner, then? 😕

😎

Nick King wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: 3 times. I meant his and Hooky's EGOS are some of the worst I have ever seen.

Was just wondering how you'd come to the conclusion that you hated Bernard Sumner, then? 😕

😎

Nick, there's a large bridge between don't like and hate m8!

He had personal problems with Rob and Terry. The problem is that some things stay buried in the sand.

Debaser wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: Anyone here worked with Bernard Sumner? So shut up!

He thinks he is the owner of the world. Gillian and Steve are working with him for only one reason, MONEY!!!

I went to see Hooky on Thursday night. The tickets weren't free. He thought he was king of the band. Surprised?

Think the one on the previous one was, Nobitz.

Big Mouth Julio wrote: Nick, there's a large bridge between don't like and hate m8!

He had personal problems with Rob and Terry. The problem is that some things stay buried in the sand.

My mistake (hate) - is the basis of the "don't like" bit come from interviews?

I mean, I don't like some of the choices that various members of New Order do and some of what they say in interviews, but it doesn't make me dislike them....

😎

NotAMod wrote: Julio, you rave undiluted, uninformed and questionable Hooky sycophancy regularly. That is my opinion as an individual.

However, as a moderator that doesn't come into consideration as I have not (yet) moderated a single post you have left.

You are free to post whatever bollocks you like in terms of how superior Hooky is to Bernard is so long as it's not libellous.

I have simply warned you not to tell other users of the forum "shut up" as you did when they present an opposing viewpoint.

Get a grip and calm down.

Yeah, "I've got a feeling". Nice title.

jed the shed wrote: I think they should get Stuart Price to produce their next album, he's done a good job with 586, it seems to me to be a good direction for them to go in, bt still keep a mix of the guitar based tracks too, I think it would be silly for them to try to keep the hooky bass sound they need to move on if they want to retain any credibility, and Hooky would never shut up about it too, as much as I love his playing he does go on!

Have you heard his PSB mix of Memory of the Future? He certainly would be a worthy producer for the new synth album they want to make.

(Still waiting for Lost Sirens call from Amazon.com/USA)

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

leather-girl wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

NotAMod wrote: I think you're probably wasting time trying to get sense out of his posts, Johnny

Respect, please!

Do not like your sarcastic jokes. Remember you are the MODERATOR, ok?

He didn't seem too sarcastic IMO.

OK it is yours, I respect but it is worse than sarcastic indeed. Nobody is the owner of the truth.

I admit sarcasm is difficult to read.

Well I guess anyone who gets off his/her fat arse and makes money can be accused of just being in it for the dough! Unless it's for charity, in which case they're accused of just doing it for the image. Back in '96 I read an interesting 'Select' article (does that make sense?) about the top ten indie breadheads, guys who are seen as a thorn in the side of the establishment but actually make wads of cash. Number One was those Pet Shop Men, which is odd as I've always seen them as super-commercial (not a criticism, just a fact!), with 16 million. And second was, that's right, New Order with 10 million. Not bad given their last record was 3 years before and a lot of people thought it was shit!

finally got to log on today without any password errors, cannot remember how many months its been, and been unable to comment. i have to say i hope new order self produce the album with assistance from a third party...eg stuart price. new orders best albums were done with gillian gilbert on board.....thats the truth.

new order do not sound the same without hooky we all know this...i was at the troxy gig and b,ham ballroom (rip) and tom just couldnt win as he is not hooky and is having to play his material, i have just watched the live in berlin gig and tom now is very comfortable in his role.

i think Julio is a good fella he just speaks his mind ,if a little abrupt at times....must be his south american blood.....lol.

i have never wanted to meet the band as i dont want to destroy ant perceptions i have ...plus im a bit shy....

and ding dong to leather girl (in a leslie phillips stylee..lol)

i havent been to see hooky and the light play but i just might as john robbs review of his movement/power c+lies live interpretation is very flattering......hhhmmmm

ps rocket mick could you please thank me for this post or i feel left out mr rocket is a neworderlegend

i think Julio is a good fella he just speaks his mind ,if a little abrupt at times....must be his south american blood..... Just cannot stop laughing Phil. What fookin' awesome conclusion you had lol

i have never wanted to meet the band as i dont want to destroy ant perceptions i have ...plus im a bit shy.... Don't waste your time with those lazy bastards!

and ding dong to leather girl (in a leslie phillips stylee..lol) Be careful with your words, ding dong during Sister Ray's cover by Joy Division means something different m8 lol

mr rocket is a neworderlegend... Yeah!!! And Shug knows a lot about this than all of us lol

Stuart Price's work rubs me the wrong way. I really wish they would work with either Brian Higgins or Richard X.

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

3 times. I meant his and Hooky's EGOS are some of the worst I have ever seen.

The thing is though, if everytime you meet the members of the band you tell them how great they are etc you are helping to further inflate their egos.

Cranelane wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

3 times. I meant his and Hooky's EGOS are some of the worst I have ever seen.

The thing is though, if everytime you meet the members of the band you tell them how great they are etc you are helping to further inflate their egos.

Imagine how Hooky feels when we call him Godbass! lol

As far as fans meeting them, it is not hard to imagine that Bernard or Peter might get annoyed after awhile with stupid questions and posing for cell phone photos... how much patience would you have posing for photos with strangers? Or fans getting something signed so they can sell it online. Seems like at least some people here have had good experiences meeting one or the other.

And yes, all of Peter, Steve, Gillian, and Bernard are profiting off of their past. They are allowed, they did the work in the past to be able to be at this point... it is what it is...

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I am not calling them mercenaries, ever!

You just did, my dear!

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

Nick King wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I don't like Bernard Sumner as a person. But like Gillian and Steve. Oh, Phil too.

Have you actually met Bernard Sumner?😕

😎

3 times. I meant his and Hooky's EGOS are some of the worst I have ever seen.

I don't see that. I live in the same village as both of them and they both seem very nice - happy to sign CD's, talk about books they are writing or new albums?

Re your comment about Gillian and Steve, Julio. They certainly don't look like they need any money - their house just like Hookys and Bernards is probably worth well over a million quid?

thanks mick you new order legend

What now? - A new album.

Ruined in a day wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I am not calling them mercenaries, ever!

You just did, my dear!

I also work for money. Don't you? 😕

UpDownTurnAround wrote: What now? - A new album.

It would be called "The Other Electronic II"

surface wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

Nick King wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I don't like Bernard Sumner as a person. But like Gillian and Steve. Oh, Phil too.

Have you actually met Bernard Sumner?😕

😎

3 times. I meant his and Hooky's EGOS are some of the worst I have ever seen.

I don't see that. I live in the same village as both of them and they both seem very nice - happy to sign CD's, talk about books they are writing or new albums?

Re your comment about Gillian and Steve, Julio. They certainly don't look like they need any money - their house just like Hookys and Bernards is probably worth well over a million quid?

I did not mean related to their fans but between themselves!

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

UpDownTurnAround wrote: What now? - A new album.

It would be called "The Other Electronic II"

Unlikely. Just don't buy it if you don't like the idea of it (AS IF!)

UpDownTurnAround wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

UpDownTurnAround wrote: What now? - A new album.

It would be called "The Other Electronic II"

Unlikely. Just don't buy it if you don't like the idea of it (AS IF!)

Think it would sound good cause I enjoy both albums [eek2]

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

Ruined in a day wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I am not calling them mercenaries, ever!

You just did, my dear!

I also work for money. Don't you? 😕

Yes, but I am not calling you prostitute.

Ruined in a day wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

Ruined in a day wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I am not calling them mercenaries, ever!

You just did, my dear!

I also work for money. Don't you? 😕

Yes, but I am not calling you prostitute.

Don't be radical