Hooky: "Bernard and Steve tried to sue me for libel"

NotAMod wrote:

El Jarvo wrote: The New Order 'brand' is a brand Hooky was also responsible for though, surely?

Yes but evidently a brand (or band) which he felt he had unilateral control to end in 2006.

Which leads us back to the "I split the band" and "He left the band" arguments.

I personally think Hooky left, but maybe that's just me.

aysie wrote: If he hadn't been at school with Bernard, I don't think he would have got the gig, to be honest...

It's occurred to me Hooky reminds me of alcoholics i've had the rather displeasure of knowing in my time. They all have this arrogant,obnoxious "i'm always right and you're a piece of shit" attitude.

NotAMod wrote:

Aside from that it's surprising to hear him say Regret was the last (proper) New Order song. At the time of Get Ready I remember reading many positive comments with Hooky about that LP; Crystal, 60 MPH, Turn My Way & Primitive Notion - not New Order songs?

I was gonna make the same point. The Regret-is-the-only-classic-NO-on-Republic line has been done to death for 20 years, but Get Ready was far more Hook-heavy and I myself as well as reviewers (I wasn't really into interviews) praised it for this very reason. Sirens is hardly Electronic either is it? Sounds like another case of Hooky shooting his mouth off. The Gillian comment is harsh but he's been like that for a while now. I hope he just means she got the gig cos she knew Steve, not cos she was, ahem, 'shagging him'. (Note to self: Apply to be Melanie C's backing singer.)

leather-girl wrote: I still disagree with Hooky that Bernard allegedly was 'happiest' when she left.

Yeah I thought that was a bit hard to swallow. Isn't this just Hooky stirring the pooh again?

Turn is one of their best post-Technique tracks in my opinion. Strong and very Hookified. It was touted as a single but we got Jetstream istead! (Actually I don't hate Jetstream the way a lot of fans do and Ana Matronic is cool.)

NotAMod wrote: I was listening to "Turn" on my iPod earlier and marvelled at just how much Hooky bass dominates that track.

In a good way of course, it sounds superb.

Is that not a "New Order" song either?

I just don't get Turn. It's hardly a classic. Can't understand why people are always harping on about it here.

Sirens - the track - is infinitely better, IMO.

El Jarvo wrote:

NotAMod wrote: I was listening to "Turn" on my iPod earlier and marvelled at just how much Hooky bass dominates that track.

In a good way of course, it sounds superb.

Is that not a "New Order" song either?

I just don't get Turn. It's hardly a classic. Can't understand why people are always harping on about it here.

Sirens - the track - is infinitely better, IMO.

This song also puzzled me. First, you get a perception that it is one of the "classic", Technique-like tracks... But then there's something wrong with it. Production? Lyrics? Chords? I cannot fathom it.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

The Gillian comment is harsh but he's been like that for a while now. I hope he just means she got the gig cos she knew Steve, not cos she was, ahem, 'shagging him'. (Note to self: Apply to be Melanie C's backing singer.)

There was a radio documentary recorded back around 87-88 in which I recall it being mentioned that it was Robs idea to get Gillian in the band, they wanted someone who wasn't a muso and who was from within the groups circle so really it was a case of being in the right place at the right time etc which is how they all got together in the first place anyway...

tarbox23 wrote: I really didn't like all the Ian Curtis imagery at the New Order Now show I saw in NYC last autumn. Felt really cultish. All the cheers and lighters in some silly reverence of the holy icon of Ian when Atmosphere was played was just juvenile.

Hook doesn't do any of that crap, he just plays the music.

And the fans don't do that at a Hooky gig?

😎

Nick King wrote:

tarbox23 wrote: I really didn't like all the Ian Curtis imagery at the New Order Now show I saw in NYC last autumn. Felt really cultish. All the cheers and lighters in some silly reverence of the holy icon of Ian when Atmosphere was played was just juvenile.

Hook doesn't do any of that crap, he just plays the music.

And the fans don't do that at a Hooky gig?

😎

Seriously.

When I saw New Order in NYC last year, they played 3 (4 if you count Ceremony) Joy Division songs out of 16 or 17 songs in total.

They did 4 songs they came out after 2000.

They did 3 songs that were never singles but are classic album cuts (Elegia, AOC, 586, YSF). They also did a fan favorite (1963). They even dragged out Thieves Like Us back in Berlin. So not just a greatest hits set.

They played newly reworked versions of Temptation, True Faith, 586, Round and Round, Elegia.

So, about 90 percent of the entire night was about New Order. Yes, they did two JD songs in the encore and had the video footage of IC, paying respect.

So that is somehow more cultish than...

Hooky and his band playing entire JD albums, no newer material whatsoever, to a room full of punters. some of whom believe all of that "Ian Curtis died for you" bullshit. Really?

I remember when I saw Hooky and Co. do Closer...the show was great. Band sounded superb. I've always liked Hooky's singing voice (I love the first Revenge album). During the whole show, there were these people screaming "Fuck Bernard Sumner" and "JD are amazing, NO suck in every way". Felt pretty cultish to me.

El Jarvo wrote:

NotAMod wrote: I was listening to "Turn" on my iPod earlier and marvelled at just how much Hooky bass dominates that track.

In a good way of course, it sounds superb.

Is that not a "New Order" song either?

I just don't get Turn. It's hardly a classic. Can't understand why people are always harping on about it here.

Sirens - the track - is infinitely better, IMO.

It's hardly a classic, but it's one of the better songs off the album, and I like the lyrics and melody. Much much better than 'Jetstream' or 'Working Overtime', IMO.

Everyone's welcome to their opinion, which means I'm right. Anyway I think Turn is easily the best track on Sirens - heartfelt and melancholic in the best NO tradition. Re Gillian, the general idea from interviews is they weren't gonna audition a new singer or it would've been JD2, they wanted someone who could play OK but didn't have a distinctive, recognisable sound - so yeah, right place / time. In John Peel's '93 Radio 1 doc Tony Wilson said it was Rob's idea to bring her in. I don't think Hook's comments on her abilities / contribution are fair either, but I went on about that in another post.

aysie wrote: If he hadn't been at school with Bernard, I don't think he would have got the gig, to be honest...

Very nicely put.

JG wrote:

aysie wrote: If he hadn't been at school with Bernard, I don't think he would have got the gig, to be honest...

Well, I suspect many have been thinking that for years, someone had to say it eventually.

I wonder if deep down, that's a key factor behind the immense insecurity Hook displays in his interviews.

This is all very silly. You can play that game with all of them, with most guys who end up in the music business. Where would Bernard be without Ian? Would anybody ever heard of Joy Division without Tony Wilson and Factory? Would anybody have ever heard of Gillian if Ian had not killed humself? If New Order had not been a success, would Hooky and Bernard have lived out their lives on the dole addicted to H? What if Ian had quit Joy Division and never killed himself, would anybody ever had heard of Bernard or Hooky except as footnotes to Ian's early band? If Gillian was not Steve's girlfriend, would she be like Susan Boyle? Without JD... would Steve had been a banker? Would Hooky have been a cat burglar and lived out his life in prison? Would Bernard have joined Depeche Mode or just been unemployed all his life?

0_o wrote:

JG wrote:

aysie wrote: If he hadn't been at school with Bernard, I don't think he would have got the gig, to be honest...

Well, I suspect many have been thinking that for years, someone had to say it eventually.

I wonder if deep down, that's a key factor behind the immense insecurity Hook displays in his interviews.

Would Bernard have joined Depeche Mode or just been unemployed all his life?

I cant imagine Barney wearing leather pants or a lether skirt if he was part of DM. That would be such a horrible sight. I see Barney becoming more of a fortune teller or a hypnotist. Hooky would've probably plot to kill Sid V, so he can replace him as the Sex Pistols bass player. Wait a minute didn't Sid apperently die from OD, hmmm...wonder where Hooky was on that day? Steve would've been a college professor on the art of war, and Gillian would've start a band with Andrew Fletcher(depeche mode) and would been the 1st band to become a band and never record a single album or a song!!! LOL! J/K

If I remember rightly, "Turn" was remixed, a video done, a chock load of new-remixes-of-old-songs prepared and then it was decided to do the 12 x 12" release instead.

markreed wrote: If I remember rightly, "Turn" was remixed, a video done, a chock load of new-remixes-of-old-songs prepared and then it was decided to do the 12 x 12" release instead.

Yeah there was even artwork of a terne (tee hee) but it was never finalised. There was also talk of a Sirens megamix as the B-side but DJ Hooky said he didn't know anything about it. The 12-12 thing wasn't officially the replacement but it certainly looked that way.

markreed wrote: If I remember rightly, "Turn" was remixed, a video done, a chock load of new-remixes-of-old-songs prepared and then it was decided to do the 12 x 12" release instead.

There were 4 videos.

Another set of interviews:

My Interview with Peter Hook, Part 1: Joy Division and the "Rubbish" with New Order

AC: This so much more comprehensive with Deborah's book. [Deborah Curtis, Ian's widow, and her book, Touching from a Distance.]

PH: But Deborah's book was about her relationship with Ian. And to be honest with you, I don't think she could give a shite about the group.

AC: But for longest time, her book was the definitive account of Joy Division.

PH: I supposed it was because at the time, it was the only personal account. I did read Debbie's book and it did make me feel quite sodding guilty because there was a sexism on our part. We did keep it for the boys and exclude everyone else. But you do what you did at the time and you can't really change the past, can you?

Interview: with Peter Hook of Joy Division and New Order

There are times when you realize that in the same way that I’m playing Joy Division songs without them, they’re playing New Order without me, but I do feel a hell of a lot better now that I’ve played New Order as well. Their bass player actually got involved in the slanging match and Phil Cunningham and really they’ve got no place to talk about anything to do with me. My argument is with Bernard, Stephen and Gillian. It’s not with two guys that don’t know what happened anyways because they weren’t there. I did have to phone Phil Cunningham up say “Be careful what you say, I‘ve got no argument with you but don‘t fucking join in cuz you weren’t there.”

I know Johnny Rotten quite well. P.I.L. toured with us in America and I got to know him quite well.

To have PIL support New Order, that must’ve been like a dream?

I wouldn’t say it was a dream (laughs!) He is a very difficult character, he never has a moment off, he is always Johnny Rotten, in your face, spitting! I actually do like him a lot, for me it’s like in a funny way, its almost as important what he did for me in the way that my mother gave birth to me. Johnny Rotten gave birth to me as a musician and when I was doing the book, the thing that frightened me was what if I hadn’t gone that night to the gig?

For what it's worth, this is kind of in defence of Hooky...

When this Hooky v New Order 'war' started I was quite firmly in Bernard, Stephen and Gillian's camp. I was pretty horrified by Hooky's bitter outpourings in interviews and thought his comments about Gillian's ability as a musician were out of order. I saw the new New Order last year and thoroughly enjoyed it, the first time I'd seen them since 1988 (!). It was all fairly straightforward - they were the good guys and Hooky was the villain. Which was difficult to accept as Hooky was always my favourite member of New Order in the past.

Then the very next morning Hooky's Unknown Pleasures book arrived in the post. I'd ordered it despite being saddened by his recent pronouncements, thought I'd give it a go. Quite frankly it was a fantastic read, I couldn't put it down and blazed through it in a week (which is amazing for an old git like me). I have no idea how much of it was true or not, but Hooky's heart-on-sleeve telling of the story made me think better of him. The bloke obviously cares a hell of a lot about what's important to him. He can't be all bad.

Now I don't know what to think. I still maintain Hooky shouldn't be giving so many interviews because it just leads to more mud-slinging. But I now feel he's not 100% the bad guy in all of this, they're all to blame in one way or another. It saddens me that it's all gone so pear-shaped for my favourite group, but at least there are two New Order's (sort of) to enjoy.

1980 wrote: I still maintain Hooky shouldn't be giving so many interviews because it just leads to more mud-slinging.

He's had a book to promote - before Xmas over here, post Xmas Stateside. I should imagine he's had to do a lot of interviews in order to promote that?

Also, he's been interviewed about Lost Sirens too, so is doing promotion on behalf of that.

El Jarvo wrote:

1980 wrote: I still maintain Hooky shouldn't be giving so many interviews because it just leads to more mud-slinging.

He's had a book to promote - before Xmas over here, post Xmas Stateside. I should imagine he's had to do a lot of interviews in order to promote that?

Also, he's been interviewed about Lost Sirens too, so is doing promotion on behalf of that.

I agree - no doubt he's got a lot of people asking him for interviews right now, and inevitably the New Order thing is going to come up.

I think what I meant to say was I wish he wasn't giving so many interviews.

This ongoing feud comes up time and again because every stupid journalist will ask the same bloody questions about it over and over again, to any member of the band they come into contact with. If they get answers then it's good copy for them. Later on the NME will make up another conflict story about it as well, and it'll run and run.

The thing Hooky, Steve, Bernard, Gillian need to do is at least agree to shut up about it, then they can close down any discussions with idiot 'journalists'.