Hi, can someone please help answer a question I have regarding TBTHOG and True Faith?

True Faith made its live debut Glastonbury July 1987 ("heres a new song weve never played before, so bear with us if you will")and was released August 1987(?).

TBTHOG was also played at that festival but wasn't released till after True Faith (possibly December 1987?)

So (back to my question) which song was recorded first?

The performance of True Faith was more shambolic than TBTHOG, so presumably TBTHOG had already had a few outings under its belt. Id be interested to know when it made its live debut too.

cheers

thanks NotAMod. its always intrigued me.

that's quite a big gap between playing TBTHOG in January and releasing the Single the following December. Maybe waiting for Arthur Baker to be available to remix it or something to do with the Salvation film release.

Tim wrote: Touched was the second song they recorded in Japan - the first having been State of the Nation in 1985. Touched was written and recorded in the studio in Japan between 20-27 Jan 1987, and debuted at the Tokyo gigs at the end of that week.

Thanks, never knew it was recorded in Japan. That'd explain the slightly Japanese sound at the start of the 12"

Tim wrote: Touched was the second song they recorded in Japan - the first having been State of the Nation in 1985. Touched was written and recorded in the studio in Japan between 20-27 Jan 1987, and debuted at the Tokyo gigs at the end of that week.

Is that really the released version, though? In the "Collector's Edition" liner notes for Brotherhood disc 2 it says that it was recorded at Pluto Studios Mcr (like the rest of the Salvation! tracks) and Shakedown Studios New York (probably where some additional elements were recorded for the Arthur Baker mix).. Not sure I believe the "Collector's Editions", though, given the various other errors on those.

Isn't it strange how little is known about NO's recording sessions, while most of JD's are well documented? Obviously technology's got something to do with it, since JD recorded several songs more or less live in a short space of time, while NO could spend months recording parts in their own rehearsal room or at home... But still, most of NO's recording sessions remain a mystery.

'Touched' was recorded more than once wasn't it? Salvation being different to the single?

Also, in Japan in '85 they had a go at 'As It Is When It Was' too, I think a demo from that session has circulated?

Johnny James wrote: 'Touched' was recorded more than once wasn't it? Salvation being different to the single?

Isn't the Salvation version just the original band mix, before Baker's additional production & mix at Shakedown? They sound like the same recording to me, except for the drum programming, and the other bits (harp, orchestral hits etc) that were added by Baker.

Also, in Japan in '85 they had a go at 'As It Is When It Was' too, I think a demo from that session has circulated?

There is a demo that circulated as early as the late 80's/early 90's, often paired with the "Let's Go" vocal demo. The circulated version of this AIIWIW demo has no acoustic or Hooky bass intro, it kicks into the drums straight away. So, was this one definitely recorded in Japan, during the "State of the nation" session?

Given the lineage of Skullcrusher, etc., I always thought the Salvation soundtrack recordings were late 1985 to 1986 that were picked out of a pile of unissued stuff and thrown away on the soundtrack.

TBHOG on the Salvation soundtrack sounds like a completely different recording to me with a slower tempo and different instrumentation. I saw the 7"/12" of TBHOG as a different recording of the track to my ears.

indiearchivist wrote:

Johnny James wrote: 'Touched' was recorded more than once wasn't it? Salvation being different to the single?

Isn't the Salvation version just the original band mix, before Baker's additional production & mix at Shakedown? They sound like the same recording to me, except for the drum programming, and the other bits (harp, orchestral hits etc) that were added by Baker.

Also, in Japan in '85 they had a go at 'As It Is When It Was' too, I think a demo from that session has circulated?

There is a demo that circulated as early as the late 80's/early 90's, often paired with the "Let's Go" vocal demo. The circulated version of this AIIWIW demo has no acoustic or Hooky bass intro, it kicks into the drums straight away. So, was this one definitely recorded in Japan, during the "State of the nation" session?

I don't know anything for sure, their sessions are mysterious as you say. The Salvation Touched sounds really different to the single, like a different recording rather than just a remix. Who knows if any parts were carried over from one session to the next.

Regarding AIIWIW, I do know they recorded a version in Japan, it's a guess that it was the demo as that would be the first recording and it was debuted on that tour (or just in advance of that).

markreed wrote: Given the lineage of Skullcrusher, etc., I always thought the Salvation soundtrack recordings were late 1985 to 1986 that were picked out of a pile of unissued stuff and thrown away on the soundtrack.

TBHOG on the Salvation soundtrack sounds like a completely different recording to me with a slower tempo and different instrumentation. I saw the 7"/12" of TBHOG as a different recording of the track to my ears.

I never bothered with the Salvation soundtrack. Is THIS the version you are referring to? Also the CD version of the soundtrack has a bonus track - an 8.00 min long 'remix' according to THIS Discogs listing. Or is that a mistake and in reality is it a 7.03 min long version as per THIS discogs listing? So is the bonus remix in fact simply the 12" version I already have?

*edit* a reviewer comments on the Discogs site re the 8.00 long version on the German CD:

The highlight of this German Only release is undoubtful the Remix Version of New Order's Touched By The Hand Of God, which is unique here. It is more an alternate (and much longer) Version of the Original Dub Version which makes it a true collector's item for New Order Fans out there...

. Which suggests that this version might be unique to the German CD. Anyone?...

The version of Touched on the Salvation soundtrack is pretty good IMHO ( yep , Debaser, that YouTube link is the version on the CD) It's pretty much how they did it live in 1987.

The bonus remix is ,from memory, more or less Touched By The Hand Of Dub as found on the UK 12 " I think. Maybe slightly different , can't remember for sure now , sorry . Don't have the cd to hand and haven't played it in years.

The CD is worth having if you can find it anywhere these days. Well I mean worth it for the NO tracks. Salvation theme and Sputnick are not unpleasant little pieces, and you get the instrumental Let's Go ( some good Hooky bass and the synths take off towards the end) , Touched and Skullcrusher . There's 2 great Cabaret Voltaire tracks on it also - Swanky Party and Jesus Saves.

Though be aware all of the other artists on the CD are absolutely fucking dire. And that's putting it mildly .

Debaser wrote:

*edit* a reviewer comments on the Discogs site re the 8.00 long version on the German CD:

The highlight of this German Only release is undoubtful the Remix Version of New Order's Touched By The Hand Of God, which is unique here. It is more an alternate (and much longer) Version of the Original Dub Version which makes it a true collector's item for New Order Fans out there...

. Which suggests that this version might be unique to the German CD. Anyone?...

the japanese and australian have it too:

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Salvation-Original-Soundtrack/release/886400

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Salvation-Original-Soundtrack/release/1031758

same here: http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/soundtracks/salvation.html

later -1

Thanks chaps. So £26 for the German version, £75 for the Japanese version, and Aussie version not currently on sale. I may not be rushing to add this to my collection. Oh well... Btw can I assume that the 7.03 version on the Canadian CD is the standard 12" version?

i'll post a copy of that track, if anyone wants to hear it.

it's by far, the best mix of it.

although that biff and memphis remix on the rest of, wasn't too bad either.

there was a touched by the hand of bias remix too, but it wasn't that good.

later -1

negative1 wrote: i'll post a copy of that track, if anyone wants to hear it.

it's by far, the best mix of it.

That'd be nice.

I prefer the Salvation Mix myself. Sounds harder and more upfront.

Debaser wrote:

negative1 wrote: i'll post a copy of that track, if anyone wants to hear it.

it's by far, the best mix of it.

That'd be nice.

here you go:

http://picosong.com/qxXX/

enjoy.

later -1

^ cheers. It does indeed sound like a longer version of "...hand of dub" to these ears.

Tim wrote:

Johnny James wrote: 'Touched' was recorded more than once wasn't it? Salvation being different to the single?

Also, in Japan in '85 they had a go at 'As It Is When It Was' too, I think a demo from that session has circulated?

Touched Salvation version definitely a different recording to the single versions.

How does it stack up lyrically? Early As It Is words were a bit different. Have got a copy somewhere but no idea where it is.

i can post this as well for anyone interested.

later -1

Debaser wrote: ^ cheers. It does indeed sound like a longer version of "...hand of dub" to these ears.

actually, its quite different, there are some parts that are similar, but since the dub is mostly instrumental,

there's a lot of differences in this mix besides the vocals, the dynamics are quite different too. a lot rawer sounding.

later -1

negative1 wrote:

Debaser wrote:

negative1 wrote: i'll post a copy of that track, if anyone wants to hear it.

it's by far, the best mix of it.

That'd be nice.

here you go:

http://picosong.com/qxXX/

enjoy.

later -1

THANKS FOR THAT!!! It was the last song on the tape I had called NEW ORDER RARITIES (1986; it started with instrumental 'Love Will Tear Us Apart', then 'Angel Dust', 'Let's Go (Waiting for so Long)', Lonesome Tonight, Shellshock, instrumental Sooner Than You Think, Sputnik, Skullcrusher and this). The tape was thrown away long time ago and ever since I could not find this particular version for years. Was this version ever released officially anywhere?

No Barcode wrote: THANKS FOR THAT!!! ... Was this version ever released officially anywhere?

What, besides the German, Japanese and Australian CD's of the Salvation soundtrack? I'm pretty sure we have been discussing above that the track is exclusive to these versions of the soundtrack album...