26 replies · 23,646 views
I know I will probably get raked over the coals for this, but Music Complete feels like a pastische of their previous work to me. Does anyone else agree? Similar to how the new Star Wars and Spectre movies are re-treads somewhat of their predecessors. Not really complaining as it still sounds incredible, but the new stuff didn't feel original to me.
Tutti Frutti - Fine Time Nothing But A Fool - Player in the League Plastic - Blue Monday
It does sound incredible after overhearing it like their other 100 or so fabulous songs. Each era has so many killer songs , and MC adds more . So many great sounds , beats, rhythms , words and guitars and synths and if they ever stop I could forgive them easily . They have given us the most staggeringly consistent wonderful songs imaginable
A lot of people make a connection with Tutti Frutti and Fine Time but to me the only similarity really is the Italian speaking bit being maybe a very distant cousin from the Barry White esque speaking on Fine Time .I thought Tutti Frutti was actually quite original for New Order;the real strings on it are extremely joyous and melodic and when i first heard those parts my first reaction was wow that's quite unlike anything New Order have put in a song before.But i guess everyone hears things differently.Can't say Nothing But A Fool reminds me of Player In The League in the slightest.The guitars and synths on the outro does remind of something New Order have done in the past but i've never for the life of me been able to quite put my finger on exactly what.The outro is very New Order so maybe that bit is slightly pastiche, yeah.Plastic is i suppose similar to Blue Monday in that it's a full on dance track but to me none of the sounds on it are anything like Blue Monday.Both songs are just both no holds barred electronic dance tracks.
The intro to Academic could only ever be no one else New Order but it's still blimmin great.
Singularity..... yeah , bit Joy Division esque at the start but when those keyboards coming crashing in they're quite an original idea for New Order to my ears.
I think overall the album is a mix of typical New Order but with also a lot of new ideas they haven't tried before.
Fotzepolitic wrote: I think overall the album is a mix of typical New Order but with also a lot of new ideas they haven't tried before.
I'm also not sure why some people would realistically expect of a band 35 years after their first album (discounting the 2 Joy Division ones) to "innovate" on their tenth outing?
I think with everything that went on the mid-noughties (and since) people were simply happy to see them again.
If Music Complete had been a howler of a record in terms of song-writing I'm sure it would've been note far and wide (I would have said so anyway) but let's face it, it's pretty good.
Welcome to the site by the way, always good to start a debate ![[:)]](/emoticons/smile.gif){kind=small}
Pastiche isn't the right word. It's the Cure syndrome - go on for so long and you can either do the same style (so people say it's boring) or change (and people say you've lost it). I haven't enjoyed anything from the NO camp so much since Electronic and at my age I'm not really interested in labels - just give me something I enjoy. Some time ago I had a chat about whether the Young Ones is a ''''true'''' sitcom and I honestly don't give a fuck what it is as long as I can laugh at it like a retard.
Fotzepolitic wrote: A lot of people make a connection with Tutti Frutti and Fine Time but to me the only similarity really is the Italian speaking bit
Secunted. Personally I always thought the innovative side to NO was massively overrated. I remember Paul Lester comparing them to Bowie and Bernard to pretty much everyone in THAT 'Lec review, but it's a huge overstatement. I'm not moaning, I just don't think they're as experimental as people would have you believe.
Michael Monkhouse wrote:
Personally I always thought the innovative side to NO was massively overrated. I remember Paul Lester comparing them to Bowie and Bernard to pretty much everyone in THAT 'Lec review, but it's a huge overstatement. I'm not moaning, I just don't think they're as experimental as people would have you believe.
You're obsessed with old Electronic reviews.
But yeah, Blue Monday wasn't experimental at all really, NO nicked all their ideas for it from that Donna Summer one and that Sylvester one and that Kraftwerk one (well they didn't just nick the idea, Bernard sampled it).And think there was another 70s dance tune they took an idea from but can't recall which one now.Oh and Hooky ripped off Morricone for the bass part.
Perfect Kiss is more experimental than BM.
Fotzepolitic wrote: And think there was another 70s dance tune they took an idea from but can't recall which one now.
Fotzepolitic wrote:
But yeah, Blue Monday wasn't experimental at all really, NO nicked all their ideas for it from that Donna Summer one and that Sylvester one and that Kraftwerk one (well they didn't just nick the idea, Bernard sampled it).And think there was another 70s dance tune they took an idea from but can't recall which one now.Oh and Hooky ripped off Morricone for the bass part.
Perfect Kiss is more experimental than BM.
http://www.discogs.com/Afrika-Bambaataa-Soulsonic-Force-Looking-For-The-Perfect-Beat/release/254879
Fotzepolitic wrote:
You're obsessed with old Electronic reviews.
That's disrespectful to Melanie C. As I say, I'm not negative, just objective. I've been into NO on and off for years, I just think some of the critical hyperbole isn't borne out by the quality and quantity of the actual music.
I wouldn't say a pastiche, but some definite similarities
Singularity reminded me of Paradise immediately - that bass riff that comes in at the 0:35s mark is a direct lift of the vocal melody from Paradise ("If we left this town, we could walk the earth together.." etc) and in fact you can sing the Paradise "sha la la la la" backing vocals quite nicely throughout the whole of Singularity
Spittingcat wrote:
Fotzepolitic wrote:
But yeah, Blue Monday wasn't experimental at all really, NO nicked all their ideas for it from that Donna Summer one and that Sylvester one and that Kraftwerk one (well they didn't just nick the idea, Bernard sampled it).And think there was another 70s dance tune they took an idea from but can't recall which one now.Oh and Hooky ripped off Morricone for the bass part.
Perfect Kiss is more experimental than BM.
http://www.discogs.com/Afrika-Bambaataa-Soulsonic-Force-Looking-For-The-Perfect-Beat/release/254879
I don't think so.
New Order was performing Blue Monday live in 1982, months before they would have heard this.
GotBlueEyes wrote: I wouldn't say a pastiche, but some definite similarities
Singularity reminded me of Paradise immediately - that bass riff that comes in at the 0:35s mark is a direct lift of the vocal melody from Paradise ("If we left this town, we could walk the earth together.." etc) and in fact you can sing the Paradise "sha la la la la" backing vocals quite nicely throughout the whole of Singularity
A closer cousin to Paradise is Dream Attack. Compare the synth basslines.
Andy wrote:
I don't think so.
New Order was performing Blue Monday live in 1982, months before they would have heard this.
Nothing to do with Blue Monday… just pointing out something else they borrowed from with good effect.
I think stray dog is a different and interesting song. it sound like them but also sounds very different from any of there tracks
People On The High Line (funk leanings) and Stray Dog (soundtrack/spoken word) are definitely attempts at doing something fresh which is to be commended really. I mean, what can you really do "new" in terms of a rock band these days? I think most sonic avenues have been exhausted. Bowie's recent passing served only to remind us of that and even he struggled to innovate at various points in his career. They could have easily done a album full of unlistenable and "challenging" avant garde music but I'm glad they didn't. Doing that type of thing is normally a cop out, covering a lack of tunes with "hey, we're being adventurous".
With 'Music Complete' the band went down the path of coming up with lively well written pop songs which I reckon is actually a bit more difficult than droning on for 9 minutes. It's difficult to write something melodic that fits together well and works. It's not a perfect album by any means, I think one or two tracks could have benefited from being edited down and made "less busy" but not enough to ruin them.
Academic sounds most like the old school New Order to me... coincidentally my favourite track off the album too ![[:p]](/emoticons/tongue.gif){kind=small}
Totally agree. MC has massive happiness embedded .this phenomenal band is capable of more , and it is logical to believe in them and trust them .
Matthew wrote: I know I will probably get raked over the coals for this, but Music Complete feels like a pastische of their previous work to me. Does anyone else agree? Similar to how the new Star Wars and Spectre movies are re-treads somewhat of their predecessors. Not really complaining as it still sounds incredible, but the new stuff didn't feel original to me.
Tutti Frutti - Fine Time Nothing But A Fool - Player in the League Plastic - Blue Monday
Fine Time was fun and sounded incredible in 1988 but I feel it should have been a non-album single as it's easily the weakest track on Technique. While Tutti Frutti shares a bit of an air of novelty with Fine Time, it's a fuller and more satisfying track.
Nothing but a Fool is one of their greatest tracks ever. The music and lyrics sound genuinely inspired and I love how you can hear echoes of old New Order (and even Joy Division) in some parts yet it still sounds original. Player in the League has a decent backing track but the lyrics are a mess. You must be joking.
I see the connection between Plastic and Blue Monday as merely being the influence of Giorgio Moroder. That influence plays a larger part in Plastic whereas in Blue Monday, it's just one puzzle piece in the many elements (covered elsewhere) that make up the 1983 track.
Andy wrote:
Matthew wrote: I know I will probably get raked over the coals for this, but Music Complete feels like a pastische of their previous work to me. Does anyone else agree? Similar to how the new Star Wars and Spectre movies are re-treads somewhat of their predecessors. Not really complaining as it still sounds incredible, but the new stuff didn't feel original to me.
Tutti Frutti - Fine Time Nothing But A Fool - Player in the League Plastic - Blue Monday
Fine Time was fun and sounded incredible in 1988 but I feel it should have been a non-album single as it's easily the weakest track on Technique. While Tutti Frutti shares a bit of an air of novelty with Fine Time, it's a fuller and more satisfying track.
Agreed, Fine Time shouldn't have been on Technique.Was never one of my favourite NO tracks.The live versions were good though and i'd sooner listen to them if i wanted to stick the song on.Tutti Frutti has much more charm and stuff going on than Fine Time.Always thought Fine Time was a shit title for a song as well, apparently the title came from Steve receiving a parking ticket and it was time to go and pay the fine.So not a fine time (good time) at all really, then.
Andy wrote:
Nothing but a Fool is one of their greatest tracks ever. The music and lyrics sound genuinely inspired and I love how you can hear echoes of old New Order (and even Joy Division) in some parts yet it still sounds original.
Yeah that's it, you got it.It has echoes of old NO and JD yet is a great new song.
i used to think Peter sang Fine time , for years after. the euphoric guitar blissful moment in the middle merits volumes of discussion. In fact every song they have could be reverently analyzed and discussed at NOOL. Brutal, recoil, sabotage , and primitive notion , someone like you, Dracula, guilt, and on and on and on. Plus flicker , warning sign, and dozens of electronic songs.
Re Fine Time - thought that was from Transmission? "We would have a fine time living in the night"
rosygale wrote: Re Fine Time - thought that was from Transmission? "We would have a fine time living in the night"
Valid point, yes.
Fotzepolitic wrote:
rosygale wrote: Re Fine Time - thought that was from Transmission? "We would have a fine time living in the night"
Valid point, yes.
But would that then mean Atmosphere begat Confusion?
Fine Time is a decent track in my humble opinion. It may be the weakest Techniqwue single but it worked well as an intro to the new Balearic sound, especially after the Pointless Waste Of Time that was BM 88. (In a Smash Hits review, Wendy James said it was 'very acid house'. She's so smart, I see how she got into the biz.) The video was suitably bonkers and so was theb TOTP appearance, which Tony Wilson modestly considered the UK's intro to acid. Nothing... is my least favourite track on the new album, mainly cos it's the closest to Bernard's namby-pamby let's-be-nice mode. Unlearn... is the kinda thing I'd've liked 20 years ago but just gives me a headache now. My uncuntended favourite is Academy (despite that awful 'Not even a HOLE' line) as the most acoustic and pleasantly reminiscent of Run, followed by Tutti Frutti for that great lyric break with LR singing. Stray Dog is cool but it slows the momentum for me - paradoxically it'd be more fun as a one-off Iggy Pop single. Player in the League? Bollocks. It was originaaly up for GR as Field but rightly relegated to B-side '''''status'''''. PS I don't know why I write this cos no one gives a fuck what I think anyway. New Cliff Richard tribute act: One Erection.
"Not even a hole" does seem to suggest something , not necessarily something important or interesting, just , provocative .
To me it suggests a hole. When I was growing up (physically, not mentally) I thought the leaf on True Faith represented the passing of time, just as the song is about the difficulties of maturing. I later read it was inspired by a leaf. Awesome. Hooky reused his bass from EGG on Shattered and Vicious Circle on Sweet Lipps. By his own logic he should now be doing 2841739 interviews calling himself a fucking twat.
The end of Plastic Extended has a lot in common with Blue Monday. I think it finally puts BM to bed.
