POTHL new single?

Mr. Disco wrote: You sure? The downloads offered within the purchase are not the same versions on the actual 7", mind you.

Yes there are links to download Richard X Radio Edit & Claptone Remix

Jozek wrote:

Mr. Disco wrote: You sure? The downloads offered within the purchase are not the same versions on the actual 7", mind you.

Yes there are links to download Richard X Radio Edit & Claptone Remix

Oh hang on I might be wrong, getting a bit confused as I only ordered the single and it show the two track above, then I check the CD ext and it's the same track. Sorry [eek2]

Also, not to forget Sabotage, and Player in the League.

I don't know about Republic being from dark days really - just accepted wisdom that's hard to shift. Surely there's no shortage of other darker times.

POTHL has one of the best remix package in the NO discograpy. The whole maxi single is like a perfect summer anthem mini album for a beach party. Remix packages are usually has a bunch of different style mixes, but the POTHL remixes are so fitting together as a homogenous album.

A new email from new order confirming the 7" release date and acknowledging that they haven't forgotten about the video.

Debaser wrote: A new email from new order confirming the 7" release date and acknowledging that they haven't forgotten about the video.

And arrogantly failing to apologise to those people who haven't received their 12" and CD of POTHL still after more than a month since it was released because NO store are too thick to work out how to split orders.

That's why I usually never order from official stores. Juno Records is the best.

rosygale wrote: Also, not to forget Sabotage, and Player in the League.

I don't know about Republic being from dark days really - just accepted wisdom that's hard to shift. Surely there's no shortage of other darker times.

Going in, they were tasked with regrouping to save their crumbling record company that saw fit to pump money into the Hacienda (and other acts) instead of pay them. The band members had their taste of creative freedom with their "side projects", but Bernard's was (by far) the most successful. Whatever struggles they had with the band being a creative democracy up to Technique were now amplified. One of Stephen Hague's roles was to make the production decisions that the band would otherwise have to deliberate over. That's why Republic is their most bland, generic work. There are some good tracks, but their hearts weren't really in it.

Did you see any of the 1993 shows? They only bothered to do 13 and I went to 2 of those. They were way more perfunctory and only-doing-it-for-the-money than Hooky imagines the shows without him are. I'd only seen them 3 times before, but could tell those weren't just "off nights". After the tour, the band didn't really speak to each other for 5 years.

There are plenty of dark times, but these did not (nor should they) inspire the best out of the band.

That is exactly how I feel about the period. London were desperate to plug NO as this eternally cool, vital outfit ('The beginning of a long relationship i.e. 2 LPs in I cant be arsed to work out how many years though I could have by now) and NO had to go along with it, but their heart really wasn't in it. You could tell from their most lack lustre LP since Movement and the gigs (a handful with no surprise tracks, unless you include Special). 'Republic is their most exquisitely doom-laden album to date' - nope, just thir most boring. I was a massive fan back then and wanted to be, but even I wasn't convinced In 96, Bernard said, We did 13 gigs, one for each track on Republic, and the others - bastards - never told me there were only 12 tracks on Republic... Tells you something about his involvement. I'm also convinced the fans know far more about those seemingly endless rehashes than the band members.

Andy wrote:

rosygale wrote: Also, not to forget Sabotage, and Player in the League.

I don't know about Republic being from dark days really - just accepted wisdom that's hard to shift. Surely there's no shortage of other darker times.

Going in, they were tasked with regrouping to save their crumbling record company that saw fit to pump money into the Hacienda (and other acts) instead of pay them. The band members had their taste of creative freedom with their "side projects", but Bernard's was (by far) the most successful. Whatever struggles they had with the band being a creative democracy up to Technique were now amplified. One of Stephen Hague's roles was to make the production decisions that the band would otherwise have to deliberate over. That's why Republic is their most bland, generic work. There are some good tracks, but their hearts weren't really in it.

Did you see any of the 1993 shows? They only bothered to do 13 and I went to 2 of those. They were way more perfunctory and only-doing-it-for-the-money than Hooky imagines the shows without him are. I'd only seen them 3 times before, but could tell those weren't just "off nights". After the tour, the band didn't really speak to each other for 5 years.

There are plenty of dark times, but these did not (nor should they) inspire the best out of the band.

That goes without saying of course about dark times and inspiration… I’m sure you’re right and it certainly sounds very stressful. Even although, it’s still my fav New Order album, but this is not a recent thing and is perhaps due to my perspective being distorted by my own experiences, and of course in 1993 I had no idea of the background to making the album, which coincidentally was not a great time for me either relative to what had gone before. I was so relieved when it came out that the stars were still shining in that patch of sky, so to speak. It doesn’t sound bland or generic to me. When I finally noticed it, I actually thought it that the artwork deliberately featured advertising type language to contrast the music. Could it be that he (Saville) was taking the piss and I was the last to notice? I haven’t been to any gigs post 1988, so no inkling of the situation from that source, only found out sometime later as far as I recall.

However, shock horror, I also love Raise the Pressure and was surprised by scathing reviews so maybe all that was irrelevant and I would’ve loved it no matter what.

Didn’t Steve say that no matter how bad some gig was, there would always be someone say afterwards it was the best of their life? Same for albums it appears.

For those wondering what it looks like:

[TWITTER]775678937498169345[/TWITTER]

rosygale wrote: [It doesn’t sound bland or generic to me.

Couldn't agree less.

rosygale wrote: the artwork deliberately featured advertising type language to contrast the music.

In the run up, Savile said it was echoing Thomson's holiday brochures. Holidays are NICE. Having your fucking house burnt down is NOT NICE. Savile is contrasting NICE and NOT NICE things. Smart.

rosygale wrote: I also love Raise the Pressure and was surprised by scathing reviews so maybe all that was irrelevant and I would’ve loved it no matter what.

My favourite RTP review was indeed scathing but true. http://www.feeleverybeat.co.uk/albums/nme6july1996.jpg

rosygale wrote:

Didn’t Steve say that no matter how bad some gig was, there would always be someone say afterwards it was the best of their life? Same for albums it appears.

Tell that to Victoria Beckham. This quote is from the Glasgow DVD but Steve talks a lot of shit so he can fill the time and go back to his home.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

rosygale wrote:

Didn’t Steve say that no matter how bad some gig was, there would always be someone say afterwards it was the best of their life? Same for albums it appears.

Tell that to Victoria Beckham. This quote is from the Glasgow DVD but Steve talks a lot of shit so he can fill the time and go back to his home.

[eek3] 😕 Not sure what your aim is, or Victoria Beckhams involvement and as you say, no one cares what we think anyway - nothing will change how I love the album, for whatever reason that may be, and no matter how right you may be re the artwork, which however also shows other images and appears open to interpretation especially to someone who knows nothing of the circumstances and how many people would even now? It would be interesting to know what Tony Wilson thought of the album since some of it seems to be concerned with him. But anyway I can’t unlike it now even if I said so, and it wouldn’t change anything.

All I have to go on is what is said, crystal ball out of order, actually I do have that dvd so it could well have been on there - must watch it again sometime.

Either way and at the end of the day Victoria Beckham is seriously uncool and...welll... a twat, basically.

I thought it was hilarious when the Geri said, The great thing about Spice is we destroyed stereotypes. As a woman, you were always compartmentalised. They see one characteristic and that's all you are. We're complex and refuse to be viewed on the basis of just one superficial aspect.' That's right, Ginger. I'm sure Sporty, Scary, Posh and Baby will bear this out. Occasionally I return to those moments in my (ex)heroes' careers that never worked and hope there's something painfully obvious I missed and it's always a case of no, so move on. Beatles for Sale, Bergman's Serpent's Egg, and yes, Repubelick... Come to think (that's my brain in reverse), in 93 select did a massive NO special - so did everyfuckingone else - and said one of the reasons they turned to Savile for Rep was as a constant they could rely on 'in a time of flux' (i.e. fucks). Struck me as making something out of nothing cos who else would they have chosen? Banksy? 'Coming up... Later... Fuck all for 3 years.' Re-Tony, you probably know this but on NOStory he said he never lstened to it cos he'd heard bad shit about it and wasn't sure how he'd feel. PS I always loved Posh for the effort and energy she put in. She must've been exhausted after this gruelling performance - well worth the salary... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5CM7RzlhgQ.

Er, well, no I don’t remember. Another one to watch again - haven’t seen it since the days of videotapes, though I have Item - A Collection + NO Story right here. Not that it would mean anything if he (Tony) did say that, and really, was he that much of a hermit? He had a song about him and never listened to it? (At least, I think Liar is about him, if not who else) It’s not my impression anyway - did he also avoid the radio, Top of the Pops - the Baywatch video, whatever else video shows were on at the time - The Chart Show maybe? and New Order Story even though he was in it, which if I recall was on tv before the album’s release, as at the time I didn’t recognise the music on it which was quite tantalizing until it came out later. So I’m not sure I would believe him anyway.

I think we all have those moments with artists occasionally I remember listening to Radiohead Kid A and thinking, what the hell is this about and I haven’t listened to anything of theirs issued since. Probably should investigate on iTunes in case I’m missing anything but I doubt it.

The original one-hour-including-ad-break NO Story was first broadcast on Channel 4 on the last Sunday of August 93, the same night as they performed their OMG-Could-This-Be-The-Last-Ever show at Reading (aka just another 93 gig), so after the album and its first three singles. The 2.5 hour version appeared on VHS in November alongside Spooky (aka WTF, the wankuz ain't even talking to each other but you still expect us to buy a single) and The Other 2 And You (aka Total Pile Of Shit). I really hated NOStory: it summed up everything I despise about journalism, i.e. pretensious wank that tells you all about how awesome I am at playing with language and Sweet Fanny Adams about the actual music: 'The coolest group of all time.' Huh? Ever heard of the Beatles, the Stones or the Spice Girls? 'After Regret, anything can happen... (London) This is the beginning of a long relationahip.' Yup, let's rerererererererererererehash the 2-singles-a-year back catalogue for three years till Bernard makes an album for another label and it's still shit. 'Even on London, they could do whatever they liked.' - Bernard: 'We've done endless promotional work for London cos they view us as an investment.' I love the way journos patted themselves on the back for deducing that Liar was about Tony... Well done! It's like 70s reviewers catching on that Lennon's How Do You Sleep was ACTUALLY about a certain ex band member: 'The only thing you done was YESTERDAY, and since you're gone you're JUST ANOTHER DAY... Those freaks was right when THEY SAID YOU WERE DEAD...' Who COULD he be talking about, fans? In '93 Bernard said the 'Chemical' bit about a payroll factory wasn't specifically about Factory, but I found it hard to imagine him penning such a line in different circumstances... He also said RIAD sounds like it's about Factory but wasn't: they all went out and got 'zonked' and then wrote this tune. The notion of '93's NO hanging out together at all, let alone getting wankud and bashing out a track together struck me as dubious too, but that's what the man said. Won't you listen to what the man said?

Ok this thread about POTHL seems to have gone into a debate about Republic so while i wait for my 12", 7" and CD of POTHL to arrive (been a month and a half now) i'll give my tuppance on Republic.

Well, it never really grabbed you (or at least me) by the neck and took your breath away like Power, Corruption & Lies or Low Life did.It never dazzled and left you speechless by its genius like much of Technique did back in January 1989.I don't know, i didn't hate Republic but i didn't love it much either.Well actually i did hate a lot of it, at first.Those first listens to World, Ruined In A Day and Spooky on Radio 1 a week before the album came out gave me a fricking headache.They were just an irritating, scrambled mess of beats and tuneless noise at first.I warmed to them a bit in time but not much.The Perfecto remix of World and the K-Klass remix of Ruined let those two songs off the hook eventually.

I interpreted the album as a little bit of a bitter dig at Factory yeah but to me it was more a melancholic sigh with resignation that a great era (80s NewOrder) was coming or had come to an end.Typified by the vibe in such tracks as Everyone Everywhere "You were once the main attraction but that's all in the past", Liar, Times Change, Special and Avalanche ( Avalanche is possibly the greatest song on the album)

Always thought one track that kind of summed up the problem with the album was Young Offender.All the elements of a great New Order track were in there, everything that normally would have made a classic NO song was there- but the track just didn't have any energy or vitality.It was less than the sum of its parts.

Special has , well, one or two special moments but ,again, never fully hits the mark like an Age Of Consent or a Leave Me Alone or an All The Way ( a criminally often overlooked New Order classic) or a Dream Attack.

Regret was good though.First time i heard it was the Fire Island mix on Radio 1 in March 93 and the DJ Jo Wiley said that's the new single from New Order and for a few weeks i thought it was the main single mix, the radio edit.Then a month or so later i heard the actual main version and i definitely recall thinking on first listen how much it reminded me of Ceremony.Strange but the song never reminded me of Ceremony ever again after that first listen.Still, it was a phenomenal comeback single (at that time) for New Order and their best bet at cracking the market of the average music fan, the average man or woman on the street,the mum taking her kids to school in the morning.No other New Order single before Regret would have garnered the interest of that sort of person.

But all in all Republic though it has its moments just didn't leave me blown away and speechless like P,C & L or Low Life or Technique.I think by that time though i wasn't as bothered as i had been in the 80s.I was much, much more distraught upon listening to Brotherhood for the first time in October 1986.Took me fuckin ages to like Brotherhood.That mid 80s era i had an unhealthy NO obsession so for them to release an album i didn't at first take to was a major fucking downer at that time.By the time Republic was released i'd moved on a bit.NO had done some incredible music (apart from Brotherhood IMHO) in the 80s , culminating with the effortless of Technique in 1989 but i think i accepted with Technique, this is it, this is as good as it gets.They will never top this.

Other little things i remember from the Republic era- i went to Reading 93 and set the video to record NewOrderStory on ITV.Except when we got home and sat down to watch the recording the video had fucked up the recording and there was was just a fuzzy screen with a ghsotly faint image of what should have been the doc.In the end i didn't see the thing til the release of the VHS later in 1993.

Also, memory tells me i bought the maxi CD single of Spooky off Amazon or something in 1994.But that's impossible.Amazon wasn't even around then was it? And i didn't even have internet access til about 1999/2000.But i distinctly remember the maxi single dropping through my letterbox in a brown jiffy bag.I must have ordered it from one of those old adverts in the back of NME or something.Sister Ray Records always used to advertise in NME back in those days.I must have sent a cheque off in the post.Whatever.

But yeah as Mr Monkhouse has said, there was all the music papers and media stuff having orgasms about New Order being a still ultra cool and relevant band around 1993 but i remember at the time i felt their coolness and relevance had peaked when they headlined Reading 89.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about 93. To borrow from a RTP review, all froth and no beer... I also heard the Fire Island Regret on the radio and had the 12" and got into it before the '''''proper''''' take. You're right about Young Offender - with gutsier mixing it could've been up there with Round and Round. In retrospect I was such a megafan in those days I was desperate to find Something To Like but it was tough. The album never peaked, the gigs were formula and most of the mixes were money first and quality second. The only gems in there were World - Perfecto, Spooky - Stadium and RIAD - K-Klass. No dandy inner Groove message either. The Other Two LP was mediocre too.

Fotzepolitic wrote: Either way and at the end of the day Victoria Beckham is seriously uncool and...welll... a twat, basically.

Off topic but I think Victoria Beckham must have the biggest discrepancy between success and quality. She's one of the richest, most photographed women in the UK but no one seems to like her very much... In the same vein, the Spice Girls must be party to the biggest distance between commercial and critical success. I like Mel C. In my opinion (this is English for I'm right) they peaked in the late 80s. I first got the singles (then Substance) and Technique and Electronic excepted, it was nearly all downhill after that. PCL was cool, but LowLife is one of the most overrated albums ever. Brotherhood has BLT and not much else and Movement is etc. As I said, I think I just needed a hobby alongside beer and porn - the actual music never really matched my enthusiasm.

I got into NO when I was 13 and was putting all the pieces together by listening to 'Substance' (oh, so *that's* who does this song) in 1991. I actually bought the Electronic CD singles before that, just on the strength of the sleeves. I later figured out it was the same singer. They didn't tell you all this stuff in America. Back in that time, where I came up, you had to figure it all out on your own. 'Getting Away With It' supposedly charted pretty good in the States, but I never heard it on the radio. I also loved 'Technique', of course. Had the 12"s, CD singles, etc.

But when 'Republic' came out, I reckon it was that coming of age time that, I don't know, I still love that record. I love the singles from it. I remember getting the 'Regret' CD single just on sight, getting it home, putting it into the player, and being blown away. 'The New Order Mix' is by far my favorite. 'The Perfecto Mix' of 'World' was just omg. And just when I was all about some K-klass, O&O just blew them out of the water with their version. I remember getting the 2-part 'Spooky' CD single and blasting that 'Out Of Order Mix'. I love 'The Other Two & You' as well. 'Innocence'. Sums it up, perfectly.

Even though I played the 'Out Of Order Mix' on an old-school edition of my radio show recently, those mixes of POTHL are great. I just wish Barney's voice wasn't lowered on the 'Planet Funk Remix'. PF should have figured a way to make that work. But I'll have a dub version of it, if ya got one! For the record, the 'Claptone Remix' seems to be working best. Didn't think I'd say it, but it's true. I play NO out every chance I get, so I'm hammering this single.

Basically, I live for the singles. But I really love this album. Screw it if Hooky's not there. Even the regular old 'Extended Mix' of POTHL is uplifting. Killer track.

I liked Republic, still do. Could have done with a bit more Hooky but, meh, whatcha gonna do? What makes me laugh isn't that people don't like it it's that people end up getting angry about it.

Come to think about it I quite like Movement too ("Martin Hannett ruined that album, HE FUCKING RUINED THAT ALBUM!")

There's no hope for people like me who express an different opinion to the majority on an entirely subjective subject matter, is there?

MTO wrote: I got into NO when I was 13 and was putting all the pieces together by listening to 'Substance' (oh, so *that's* who does this song) in 1991. I actually bought the Electronic CD singles before that, just on the strength of the sleeves. I later figured out it was the same singer. They didn't tell you all this stuff in America. Back in that time, where I came up, you had to figure it all out on your own. 'Getting Away With It' supposedly charted pretty good in the States, but I never heard it on the radio. I also loved 'Technique', of course. Had the 12"s, CD singles, etc.

But when 'Republic' came out, I reckon it was that coming of age time that, I don't know, I still love that record. I love the singles from it. I remember getting the 'Regret' CD single just on sight, getting it home, putting it into the player, and being blown away. 'The New Order Mix' is by far my favorite. 'The Perfecto Mix' of 'World' was just omg. And just when I was all about some K-klass, O&O just blew them out of the water with their version. I remember getting the 2-part 'Spooky' CD single and blasting that 'Out Of Order Mix'. I love 'The Other Two & You' as well. 'Innocence'. Sums it up, perfectly.

Even though I played the 'Out Of Order Mix' on an old-school edition of my radio show recently, those mixes of POTHL are great. I just wish Barney's voice wasn't lowered on the 'Planet Funk Remix'. PF should have figured a way to make that work. But I'll have a dub version of it, if ya got one! For the record, the 'Claptone Remix' seems to be working best. Didn't think I'd say it, but it's true. I play NO out every chance I get, so I'm hammering this single.

Basically, I live for the singles. But I really love this album. Screw it if Hooky's not there. Even the regular old 'Extended Mix' of POTHL is uplifting. Killer track.

Thanks for the recollection, it was good to read. :) I'm a fan of New Order since WFTSC, but I started to collect the Republic and Technique singles this year, so the Republic mixes are fresh to me, and I know what you talking about, they are very good, especially the Spooky mixes, and the Ruined mixes. Oh and I LOVE the NO mix of Regret, it's far better then the album version.

The total mess is going on. 7" delayed again including all my items. Big twats.

Useless tossers. Though I'm not sure I really care anymore. I doubt I'll even play the thing when i eventually get it.

My order at Piccadilly still delayed. At least they give me the option to send the 12" and 7" separately but I'll wait cos I'm cheap.

Republic is ace.

M1 wrote:

Republic is ace.

Thanks for sorting that out. I've been wrong all these years.