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Peter Hook: Substance: Inside New Order

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Eimi wrote:

Milkshock wrote: More Hooky nonsense exposed - in his book he alleges that Barney forced Johnny Marr's guitar out of Electronic - but in his own book published yesterday Marr states that Bernard wanted him to play more guitar but that he was more interested in the electronic side of things.

It's clear that Hooky doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's blinded by his anger that he's saying these things. In this case, I believe Johnny Marr's words, because he actually worked with Bernard in Electronic and knew what it was like. And it's clear from those words that Barney did not 'force' Johnny Marr's guitar out of the project. I don't know how Hooky's fans can continue to defend this nonsense that comes out of Hooky's mouth/book.

Yep, I've heard Johnny remark on that before, tracking back to the final Smiths album which had minimal-to-no guitars on some tracks

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Apparently, Peter had hoped Die Moldau would be the intro music for the year's MC shows, but Bernard and Tom And Jonny thought that Das Reingold would be be best ,and also cause Peter to be exasperated. Peter , also , it has been heard, feels that Bernard should make another Prozac album, as he really likes and listens to' raise the pressure 'side 2, almost as often as republic , side 1. Peter further insists that if action figures of new order are created for the suave sophisticates on both sides of the pond , that his figure be 1mm taller than Gillian, and that the Tom figure be somewhat in awe of the Peter figure. And he insists that grand theft auto -manchester to burnley , by way of maccclesfield be extra bad and mod and focus upon Hooky

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M1 wrote:

Eimi wrote:

Milkshock wrote: More Hooky nonsense exposed - in his book he alleges that Barney forced Johnny Marr's guitar out of Electronic - but in his own book published yesterday Marr states that Bernard wanted him to play more guitar but that he was more interested in the electronic side of things.

It's clear that Hooky doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's blinded by his anger that he's saying these things. In this case, I believe Johnny Marr's words, because he actually worked with Bernard in Electronic and knew what it was like. And it's clear from those words that Barney did not 'force' Johnny Marr's guitar out of the project. I don't know how Hooky's fans can continue to defend this nonsense that comes out of Hooky's mouth/book.

Yep, I've heard Johnny remark on that before, tracking back to the final Smiths album which had minimal-to-no guitars on some tracks

That was also partly because he walked out before they finished it.

Johnny and Bernard have both been on the record several times about Electronic. The original plan was for a series of anonymous, purely electronic, instrumental EPs to act as a detox for the shit they'd each just been through. Guitars were never supposed to be involved at all. Lucky Bag, Soviet, Free Will and Reality (before they added lyrics) were the result of that approach but it gradually morphed into the album we ended up with.

As has been stated Johnny really fell in love with the synths because he was well out of his comfort zone but they just did what they had fun with. It's often been stated by Sumner that Marr got so carried away with the synths that he had to remind him to get the guitar out every now and again. Marr never thought to even try singing until Sumner talked him into it for Haze on Twisted Tenderness and now he's a solo artist, writing and singing his own songs. Electronic was two mates having fun, covering a wide range of tones and genres and each of them learning off each other.

Hooky can fuck right off with that shite.

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The Ruts wrote:

  • When discussing Dream Attack, he doesn't mention who was mainly involved with it. Probably because it's rumoured to have been written by Gillian.

https://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/artefact.php?&aid=1864&bid=693

And WHAT a tune.

Reminds me, always disappointed when Gillian does the self deprecating thing and describes herself as the "keyboard player" in New Order. Sells herself short. But perhaps she's had to work with some male egos that make that approach essential. I mean BS as much as PH here by the way.

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Last week in Manchester at a launch event for his memoir, Johnny Marr spoke very highly of Gillian.

Johnny described Gillian as the first cool English woman to visit America.

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The sad thing is he'll say any old shite just for attention. The sadder thing is it's working.

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Michael Monkhouse wrote: The sad thing is he'll say any old shite just for attention. The sadder thing is it's working.

Unclear if you mean Hooky or Marr, here, given the previous posts; but I guess you mean Hooky.

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Today's recommended reading is Steve Jones' biography for its articulate, insightful and informative commentary on the composition process, the Pistols' continued relevance and of course the socio-political, economic strife of the period: 'Fuck, this fucking photo must be from one of those fucking gigs we fucking did, I don't fucking remember, you think I had a fucking diary for fuck's sake, I was too fucking pissed anyway. Fuck, what a fucking photo.'

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If you’ve read his other two books, or any of his recent interviews you know exactly what you’re in for. Hooky is a typical bloke-in-a-band story-teller. You can sniff the BS in most of the stories, like they’ve been polished and embellished over the years for maximum value. Ignore the facts etc

But so what – it’s a fun read if you don’t let him annoy you too much

I also enjoyed the stuff that he doesn’t say – lots of bits along these lines: “I did some brilliant bass on this album, and Barney’s vocals and guitar playing were equally as good. Stephen’s drumming was phenomenal.” FULL STOP

Then the continual naming of members of the entourage doing seedy/questionable things – then suddenly he goes all cryptic “then a certain member of our lot did this…”

I wonder who that could have been then? hahaha :)

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It took me 3 months to read this fabulous tome. Few things:

  1. To understand Hook's perspective, one has to accept his premise that New Order/Joy Division were basically HIS and Bernard Sumner's band, as they both formed it in 1976, before Ian Curtis, Stephen Morris and Gillian Gilbert; not only that, but he considers himself one of the principal music writers on par with Sumner. So, if one of them leaves the band (as Hook himself did in 2007), the band simply doesn't have the right to exist (whereas Gillian's departure in 2001 was completely fine, consequence-free, according to that logic). So, following that logic, again, New Order ceased to exist in 2007.

  2. Hook makes a few points when New Order were supposed to be really real. Whether it's before Gillian came along (and they had a 'democracy'), or it's 1980-84 when Sumner was not yet the dictator he turned to be after Rob's decline, or it's 1981-85 when they didn't know how to write songs properly and sing in key, or 2001-2004 when New Order again were just him, Barney and Steve... I'm lost.

  3. Oh that wrath unleashed on Barney... That Mr. Sumner could be a jerk, I suspected, but here Hook explains why he had to be one: who else would program all these computers to make bearable music? Who else would stop touring to recover from Pernod? Who else would turn his back on the Hacienda to buy Mercedeses and Elvis costumes? Exactly. But still I was shocked to learn how callous, greedy, rude, lazy, stubborn and annoying Mr. Sumner was. I mean, the guy is trashed basically on every page. By the way, I did read Sumner's autobiography, which was more introspective, at times poetic, but somewhat vague in general and cherry-picking.

  4. I loved the book, although, the last thing I wanted is to know anything about the band beyond the LP sleeves and videos, but that ship has sunk... and this invitation into the real world of New Order was irresistible.

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Still working my way through - just got past the release of Republic. I think he has mentioned Terry Thomas more times than he has mentioned Gillian!

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The start of Republic is one of the very few times he speaks positive about Gillian.

The things I learned about Hooky is he just wants the band to stay Joy Division. And He thinks he is the Edge.

And both Hooky and Barney are assholes. Rob should have been fired around 1983 or 84. And everybody took advantage of them including their own roadies. About 20 years of hard drugs, I can't believe they are all still alive. and the book has a crapy ending. I'm guessing there will be a second book call New Order the legal years.

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Well true or not it's an enjoyable read , we know our heroes chopped out more lines than the Stones, zep and Liam put together Not so kind on Gillian where would he be if she hadn't joined and there are several veiled references about her with a couple about Barney what the heck he signed me book me Joy division tape and loads of other stuff which is more than can be said for lol from the cure , when I finished I played Avalanche just seemed so right Faith

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Its the American version with a different cover - certainly not going to pay best part of £30 to find out if there's anything new in it.

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Seems to be a lot less pages in this edition only 416?

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Amazon says the same number of pages. I do prefer the American edition cover, although I find constant Saville design rehashing tiresome (like combining the Movement typography with the PCL chromogramm).

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No Barcode wrote: Amazon says the same number of pages.

Does it? THIS appears to say 416 pages whilst THIS says 768 pages.

The paperback due out in June 2017 is listed as 928 pages. Could that be with the extra stuff Hook mentioned (which I thought was only going to be online or kindle or something). The image for the paperback appears to be the original arse cover rather than the orange one.

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Debaser wrote:

No Barcode wrote: Amazon says the same number of pages.

Does it? THIS appears to say 416 pages whilst THIS says 768 pages.

The paperback due out in June 2017 is listed as 928 pages. Could that be with the extra stuff Hook mentioned (which I thought was only going to be online or kindle or something). The image for the paperback appears to be the original arse cover rather than the orange one.

I looked at Amazon.com, it says 768 pages, just like in my British copy. HERE

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Another book tour interview:

HeatSt.com

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'The turmoil culminated in Hook – who is widely regarded as one of the greatest bass players of his generation – being ejected from New Order half a decade ago. ': I thought he walked out on the band?

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79order wrote: Dear Peter Can I point out a serious error in your book that will have fans blood boiling world wide the Wedgwood rooms where you state Monaco played in September 1997 is in PORTMOuTH not as stated Plymouth , I expect nothing less than a total recall of this otherwise excellent and factually correct book though seriously how could you. Your m8 79

Movement

This was an error in the http://www.new-order.net/ot/gigs listing, which I've just corrected. Old version with error as reference can be viewed here: http://web.archive.org/web/20150819070618/http://www.new-order.net/ot/gigs/

--Sam

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Another book tour interview: HuffingtonPost.com

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That HuffPo interview contains another classic Gillian whitewash moment

I wanted people to realize how hard we worked and how difficult it was to create that sound. You’ve got to give all of us, Barney, Steve and myself, the credit for doing that

Yes New Order, Barney, Steve & Hooky - that famous THREE PIECE

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Really looking forward to reading Steves version now. Whens his book out?

Chapter One - Beginnings

To be honest, with all the drums and cymbals in front of me I couldn't really see what was going on.

The End

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Excerpt from I Am Monkey, Steve's autobiography:

Chapter 5. Working with John Robie Ah yeah, John Robie. Good old John, old Johnny yeah, Mr John Robie ladies and yeah. Doin' fairy well fer 'imself innit, bit of a producer and type thingie now, eh? All thanks to us of course! Only joking. Or am I? Ere that's a good line ain't it? Work with New Order, become a producer and type thing eh? Ere angggon, ain't John Robie already done that? That's me point! Gillian? Gillian Ha ha ha! Yes, ha!

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Are any of these books going to come out in video documentary forum? Not really into books.

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