Peter Hook: Substance: Inside New Order

Late to the party on this one and there's no need to add to whats been said really but, I don't care what he says, all the sniping at other band members in the book wouldn't have been included if he'd written the book fifteen years ago.

[TWITTER]879378417828982785[/TWITTER]

That cover for the paperback version is a bit busy innit? And Hook has softened to an extent he includes photos with Bernard on it?

Fotzepolitic wrote: That cover for the paperback version is a bit busy innit? And Hook has softened to an extent he includes photos with Bernard on it?

Marketing innit. If it was a picture of his dick no one would buy it... Well maybe someone would. But let's not think about them.

Fotzepolitic wrote: That cover for the paperback version is a bit busy innit? And Hook has softened to an extent he includes photos with Bernard on it?

Never mind Bernard. Who is that woman and what does she have to do with New Order?

Yes, the photo with Bernard and Gillian is I am sure very much deliberate. Given Hooky's stance that 'she' can't be trusted to press the right buttons so Bernard has to go and do it....

Two things, among others, I found revealing in the book: 1) that Bernard denied anyone to do back vocals and did it himself, although everyone in the band was capable of singing and Hooky was the one who had to step up to the mic when Bernard was way off his head; interesting to note though that Phil and Tom (?) provide back vocals in Music Complete; and 2) that (kinda related to #1) the male voice in Fine Time belonged to Bernard (they slowed it down) and not some obscure sample, which I find pretty awesome. The production of Technique was so self-sufficient; thank God they kept Stephen Hague away, he would have totally fucked it up.

I also think that Hooky believes he might have been a better singer when NO just formed but "autocratic" Barney took over and cut off everyone from the singing duties. And let's be honest, Sumner's early singing (live particularly) was terrible. I mean, we've all got used to him and all, but to an outsider he sounded bad (basing on many people's comments I received).

And one more thing: Hooky is the integral part of NO sound. It's like Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin. You can't have Led Zeppelin without Page, even if Plant is singing. I mean, obviously I don't refuse to see post-Hook New Order but... Honestly, they should have it called it day in 1993 for good, with a few reunion concerts here and there if the moment feels right, but that's it. They never outdid their 80s output, and probably never will. Like I like Crystal, but the album didn't live up to it (exactly as Republic didn't live up to Regret). And I don't even want to go into WFTSC.

The one person who never gets a mention is Michael Johnson, its possible he contributed more to the NO sound than is given credit for. Can't be a coincidence that every album since Technique hasn't been as good. I suspect Republic could've been way better without Hague, obviously they needed referee but i think they chose the wrong guy!

No Barcode wrote: The production of Technique was so self-sufficient; thank God they kept Stephen Hague away, he would have totally fucked it up.

Why do you say that? Hague could have done a very good version of Fine Time - it's just his sort of track. Round & Round, the single, was okay.

I think Hague needs A Little Respect (hope you see what I did there), he's a brilliant producer. Critical New Order fans appear to focus on what they believe he didn't do rather than credit him for what's there. Let's not forget he's also got songwriting credits for True Faith, 1963, and Republic - okay, Bernard wasn't too happy about him having songwriting credits on Republic, we've learned from Hooky. The point is classics like True Faith, World in Motion, and Regret may not have been as good without him...

No Barcode wrote: Two things, among others, I found revealing in the book: 1) that Bernard denied anyone to do back vocals and did it himself, although everyone in the band was capable of singing and Hooky was the one who had to step up to the mic when Bernard was way off his head; interesting to note though that Phil and Tom (?) provide back vocals in Music Complete; and 2) that (kinda related to #1) the male voice in Fine Time belonged to Bernard (they slowed it down) and not some obscure sample, which I find pretty awesome.

I also think that Hooky believes he might have been a better singer when NO just formed but "autocratic" Barney took over and cut off everyone from the singing duties. And let's be honest, Sumner's early singing (live particularly) was terrible. I mean, we've all got used to him and all, but to an outsider he sounded bad (basing on many people's comments I received).

I thought Rob Gretton decided who the singer would be? Even Hook admits Bernard was the right choice, based on the way they play. I can't remember Bernard denying backing vocals in the book, but I take your word for it. Hook actually has a good vocal for backing because he, fittingly, has a bass singing voice. Unfortunately for him, this doesn't make for a very good lead vocal. He does the Joy Division ones okay, but struggles with New Order tracks, as Bernard is probably a tenor. His best vocals were on One True Passion, where his voice seemed higher, and sounded a bit like Bernard on tracks such as Slave...

Does anyone still believe the Hookster? 'Chapman will do a duet with ex-Spice. Tom 'n' Geri.' I finally got to read some of this book on pdf cos it's hard to track down in the Eternal Shitty. I was really bored and even I couldn't get through more than 5 pages. Zzzzzz.

blunt laser wrote: The one person who never gets a mention is Michael Johnson... ...the wrong guy!

I agree, Johnson worked on every album from Closer to Technique. I don't remember, maybe he was mentioned in "Blue Monday Diaries", a book by Butterworth (?) who sat through the PC&L sessions.

I think Michael Johnson lost it after the 'Bad' album in 1988.

Del Boy wrote: Yes, the photo with Bernard and Gillian is I am sure very much deliberate. Given Hooky's stance that 'she' can't be trusted to press the right buttons so Bernard has to go and do it....

Actually, what Pete Hook says in the book is not his stance, it's Bernard's. Bernard did not trust her; Hooky is simply stating that. From what he says about Bernard in the rest of the book, he seemed very controlling, and got more so as the years progressed.

Boy, is it boring! I was bored shitless and even I couldn't get past the first page. The most unintentionally hilarious autobiography is (S)Ex Pistol Steve Jones: 'Lydon fell out with McLaren when the latter chose Russ Meyer to direct the film. He wrote a long letter saying Meyer's work was 'infantile, artistically inept and an affront to female dignity and male intelligence.' McLaren replied that he was actually 'a gentleman, a true professional and in his own way just as radical as the band.' All I knew was he made movies about girls with big tits, which sounded great to me.'

Finally downloaded the book. Although I doubt the accuracy, it is a riveting read. It would explain why when I watch old clips of gigs, Barney acts so pissed off the whole time.

I’m up to the Substance era and 4 things struck me:

1. why doesn’t Hooky show one ounce of remorse to his first wife Iris, for all his antics? Is he really that belevant?
2. why didn’t any wives (or girlfriends) accompany the band members (excluding Gillian obviously) on tour? They must have had at least an inclin as to what their “guilty partners” were up to?
3. neither hooky nor summer strike me as shrinking violets. So why the hell didn’t they stand up to rob gretton over money, business decisions, etc?
4. why didn’t they ever try and write a song while in the moment of post gig euphoria? Instead of always when hungover the day after (with those last minute 5am dodgy lyrics)?

Deceiver wrote: His best vocals were on One True Passion, where his voice seemed higher, and sounded a bit like Bernard on tracks such as Slave...

Worst thing ever to come out of this camp. Even worse than The Other Splooge. Really bad. Just - really bad. Bad. The official line was that Rob chose Gillian: they wanted someone who could fit in by being a competent musician but not having a recognisable style that would take them over. As for her technical abilities I really can't comment. The Other Two are crap though.

I see the paperback is £3 in Fopp at the moment for those that are interested (is there anybody on this board who is interested that hasn't already got a copy?)

Ken Doherty wrote:

I see the paperback is £3 in Fopp at the moment for those that are interested (is there anybody on this board who is interested that hasn't already got a copy?)

It seems they have stopped printing the paperback edition (maybe the hardback too?) but Fopp have been ordering in batches of old stock and continuing to sell the book for £3. I mention this now because HMV are reported to be calling in administrators (again) as we speak. And HMV owns Fopp. So today may be your last chance to get in there. I actually liked Fopp more than HMV in recent years and will miss it if it goes.

Well thanks to lockdown I finally managed to read this all the way through to the end tonight:I didn't think it was an amazing book by any means but I thought it was entertaining enough (and better than Bernards book that I still haven't managed to get more than a couple of chapters into despite bringing it with me on my last two or three holidays): I got the impression a lot of why he left NO was left out of this due to the legal action that has been ongoing but I also thought that the going into rehab was a big contributing factor into him leaving (it seems that once he wasn't drinking any more than he thought it was him against the world) Thanks for writing this Peter but I don't think we need a further chapter in what has happened ( I saw online the other day he was thinking of writing a book about the court case(s))