Happy Birthday to Substance

Fotzepolitic wrote: there was a bit of rivalry i awlays thought between New Order and The Smiths, aggravated by Morrissey seemingly dissing JD and NO

By a happy coincidence 'World in Motion' was the same time as the 10th anniversary of Ian's death and NME ran articles on both. They quoted Morrissey saying he'd seen JD before the death (not after, that'd be difficult) and was 'enormously unmoved - as were most of the audience.' He continued that he didn't get the fascination around NO or 'feel anything strong for them... To me, it's all myth.' Obviously this wasn't what I wanted to hear but it did strike me as an articulate and reasonable comment, unlike Hooky's name-calling... In '91 Marred Johnny said Hooky actually asked to collaborate but Bernard got there first and that's when Peter started dissing the Smiths and Johnny in particular. Mind you, he hates everyone except a dead singer and his son.

I can't believe anyone would seriously prefer the Substance versions of Temptation and Confusion over the originals... absolute sacrilege.

Darklands by the Jesus and Mary Chain is an absolute masterpiece (imo) from 87. One of my all time favourites

Also love Spacemen 3 perfect prescription from 87.

Low Life wrote: I can't believe anyone would seriously prefer the Substance versions of Temptation and Confusion over the originals... absolute sacrilege.

Well I heard the substnsce versions first and when I heard the original ceremony and temptation I thought they were demos. Very rough, with out of tuned guitars, poor mixing and drums and plodding.

The 87 temptation is near perfection except the plinky plonky sequencer sounds sonically too similar to Bernard's guitar picking part and not distinguished enough.

Ken Doherty wrote: according to Mr. Hooks Facebook

So it must be true. When I started to waste three years of my youth at uni, I couldn't lug all my vinyl up there so I compiled the 'proper' version of each song (no remixes unless they had the full vocal and radically different music e.g. Get The Massage Groove but not the 7"). Funnily enuff I chose the 'Temptation' on the fairly crappy BBC Radio 1 Live in Concert - it seemed the closest I could get to a definitive rendering. I think the original 7" or 12" would've sounded tacky by 1987's standards. It always annoyed me that Hooky gets lost from the last verse of Perfect Kiss and I actually thought https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u\_K2eCbJblA was the best representation. No one in England, the world, the universe gives a fucking flying fucking fuck.

First version of Temptation i heard was the fantastic live version on the Dec 83 Radio 1 broadcast of the April 83 Kilkenny gig . The 1982 7" & 12" both have their high points and low points but difficult to imagine them on Substance. The trouble with the 87 version recorded for Substance is they tried to recreate the live version and didn't really capture the vibe and/or energy. The same can be said for the 87 recording of Confusion for Substance- tried to recreate the live version but doesn't have the sheer energy of , say, the live version they did of it at the Kilkenny 83 gig.

As for the version of Ceremony that is on Substance, I always found it quite lifeless, lame an restrained and never understood why it's everyone's favourite version . Alright, the first version had recording and mixing problems but at least it has fucking life and energy to it. But hey this is all just my view and opinion and we all know what opinions and arseholes have in common.

Thinking, if was t make a playlist or mixtape of Substance live I'd go for these live versions:

Ceremony -Kilkenny, 24.04.83

Everything's Gone Green - Kilkenny 24.04.83

Temptation - Kilkenny 24.04.83

Blue Monday - Finsbury Park 09.06.2002

Confusion - Kilkenny 24.04.83

Thieves Like Us - Hacienda 20.07.83

Perfect Kiss- Bennicasim ??. 07.2012

Sub Culture - Granada Studios, 29.06.2017

Shellshock- Granada Studios, 29.06.2017

State Of The Nation- gawd, is there any good live versions if this? Dunno, one of the Oct 86 gigs then.

Bizarre Love Triangle- Glastonbury 2016

True Faith- Reading Festival ??.08.98

Hooky doesn't get lost in the second verse.

Hooky doesn't get lost in the second verse.

Hooky doesn't get lost in the second verse.

Hooky doesn't get lost in the second verse.

Hooky doesn't get lost in the second verse.

I never repeat myself. Never, never never. If I remember well, on the 12" the final verse (the bit about being alone at night) has Bernard's not-quite-Hendrixy guitar dubbed in instead of the Hook bits he did live. I would check but it is important beer and Melanie C time. The BBC Radio 1 album was poorly received but it was cool to have some of their best tracks all on one release instead of jumping from one format to another. I was such an obsessive little wanker I was just happy to have some 'new' official vinyl for my collection. Unfortunately the disadvantages outweighed the positives: sub-Hague production, editing and the loss of live excitement. I always thought it was shitty the way they edited Reading 98 for the DVD, presumably toinclude Tarwass ShankFuckPig. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.