Hooky vs. New Order : Settlement

http://www.neworder.com/newordernow/2017/9/20/new-order-announce-a-full-and-final-settlement-with-former-b.html "New Order announce that today, a full and final settlement has been reached in the long running disputes with their former bassist Peter Hook. The disputes were based upon Hook's use of various New Order and Joy Division assets on merchandising and in the promotion of shows by his new band, and the amount of money he receives from the use of the name New Order by his former colleagues since 2011. The Joy Division and New Order names mean a great deal to so many of the fans, and the band felt it important to protect the legacy. With these issues now dealt with, Bernard, Stephen and Gillian can continue to do what they do best, make music and perform live." Speculation time :

• Hooky's use of the name, logos/associated imagery, and touring as The Light playing nothing but JD/NO material has probably affected the commercial outcome, as he cannot show he has prevented from trading / working by leaving NO.
• Also implied that the %age paid for past use by current New Order has now been adjusted upwards, possibly with a payment to reflect this
• Any payment will also have control strings around Hook's use of NO / JD assets, name, imagery, etc in future
• NO felt that it better to reach agreement now rather than drag all these issues into court
• Hooky may have been advised by otehrs (Joyce/Tolhurst?) that court cases expesive, risky, and in Tolhursts case could have bankrupted him

Interesting that Chappers and Phil aren't listed in this ; maybe they weren't the key defendents but more likely witnesses etc. Out of Court settlement also does not mean admission of, or declaration of guilt, in any case on either side.

I'm glad it's over : I thought the costs may likely have bankrupted Hooky to be honest.

Good it appears to be over though.

markreed wrote: Interesting that Chappers and Phil aren't listed in this ; maybe they weren't the key defendents but more likely witnesses etc. Out of Court settlement also does not mean admission of, or declaration of guilt, in any case on either side.

Good spot and good speculating Mr Reed. Previous wording I have seen suggests (to me) that Mr Chapman is an employee of the band rather than a member, so I think that would explain why he isn't listed. Phil was perhaps a bit less clear; Hooky himself said that Phil had been made a proper member of NO somewhere in between GR and WFTSC, but perhaps that just meant in terms of allowing/encouraging him to make a musical contribution rather than in the more legal sense.

markreed wrote: I'm glad it's over : I thought the costs may likely have bankrupted Hooky to be honest.

Good it appears to be over though.

On the one hand I agree that it's good that it's over. However the more ghoulish 'tabloid reader' side of me would have been curious to see this stuff play out in court - at least for a little while. Admittedly that probably would have been unpleasant for those involved and probably would have lead to arguments on here too. Perhaps Mr Hook will stop bitching about Barney & co in every interview now. That would be nice!

Hook said something along the lines of 'you can enjoy both' on his Twitter the other day in relation to his gigs and no's Hollywood bowl gig

I thought it was odd at the time but this is obviously the reason why

I personally wanted it to go to court,hook to lose and become bankrupt for all the bitter stomping and shouting he's done over the last few years

Given that New Order released the news it looks like Hooky didt get the deal he was looking for and as hese quite I guess there is a shut the fuck up and enjoy the money clause in the agreement.

Here comes Love (will tear us apart) you can buy it with money

Good news and some pretty reasonable speculation to go with it.

I had hoped Hook would be hoisted by his own petard in all this but fuck it, time to move on and be positive.

I'm sure Peter will still call Bernard a twat at every possible opportunity - I can't help but think he might be feeling a bit disappointed that this is all (supposedly) over, I pictured him wringing another book out of the court case.

Presumably the main beef was with GG, SM + BS as the longest standing members and they were there for the 1993 London deal. PC joined later, and was made official circa 2003 so presumably limited exposure, and TC joining in 2009 (in BL), what the band do 2011-onwards would have not been an area PH could sue on.

Any statement would have undoubtedly been cleared and agreed between both parties.

PH presumably looked at the situation, costs, likelihood of success and return, and judged that the hassle/time/cost of further court action vs likely outcome wasn't worth it, as would have NO. I've been in a situation similar, and thought... "Is it worth the cost and hassle for an extra X% more?" .... and agreed a middle position.

Rorschach wrote:

I had hoped Hook would be hoisted by his own petard in all this but fuck it, time to move on and be positive.

Why? What's he ever done to you? Moaned a lot in some interviews? Kin 'ell.

NotAMod wrote: This is most likely "yer lot" in terms of info.

Wait, I've got some proper facts from twitter!

[TWITTER]910507845908668416[/TWITTER]

[TWITTER]909894657391435776[/TWITTER]

At least they reached an agreement and now they can carry on , they will still be angry towards each other no matter what , the feelings and the stuff that happened won't go away, for me it is definitely not the same without them together, Bernard and Peter made great music together.

Linus Solanki wrote: Bernard and Peter made great music together.

Made. Past tense.

Get Ready was mostly awful, and WFTSC had 2-3 good tracks, but the Sumner-Hook lineup hasn't made a truly great New Order album since 1989.

If Hook hadn't left, we'd have never gotten an album as sublime as Music Complete. Honestly, two years later I'm still in awe that they created an album so terrific nearly 40 years into their career. How many bands do that? The Cure hasn't released an album in 10 years, and their last decent one was 25 years ago. Depeche Mode has been treading water since 1993. Shit like Rock The Shack should never have seen the light of day, and having attended a couple of Peter Hook gigs, I'm convinced that whole cheesy rockist vibe was his influence. New Order is better than that.

Fuck fuck for that. The whole debacle was more repetitive than the drum loop used in Chemical!

Hooky's never been this quiet has he? Not even a similar statement to NO's on his social media. Not even something saying a settlement has been reached and he won't be discussing it further. Nothing at all. When was the last time he actually shut up like this?

markreed wrote:

• Hooky's use of the name, logos/associated imagery, and touring as The Light playing nothing but JD/NO material has probably affected the commercial outcome, as he cannot show he has prevented from trading / working by leaving NO.
• Hooky may have been advised by otehrs (Joyce/Tolhurst?) that court cases expesive, risky, and in Tolhursts case could have bankrupted him

I would say these have been the main factors in Hooky's case. Remember, he set up a website to sell reproduction school photographs of him and Barney (among other things) to help fund the case.

Debaser wrote: Hooky's never been this quiet has he? Not even a similar statement to NO's on his social media. Not even something saying a settlement has been reached and he won't be discussing it further. Nothing at all. When was the last time he actually shut up like this?

I've Just thought the exact same thing

He hasn't tweeted I'm 24 hours the poor old git must be raging inside

Congratulations Lee on some of the stupidest posts I've ever seen!

It's a settlement agreement - therefore Hooky wouldn't have settled unless he agreed with it.

I'm sure there will be some kind of statement soon. For now he's probably just enjoying his payout. Lots of speculation on here from people who know nothing about it.

Mr_D1sco wrote: Congratulations Lee on some of the stupidest posts I've ever seen!

It's a settlement agreement - therefore Hooky wouldn't have settled unless he agreed with it.

I'm sure there will be some kind of statement soon. For now he's probably just enjoying his payout. Lots of speculation on here from people who know nothing about it.

to be singled out for stupid posts on this website has took some doing i'm quite proud of myself! thanks!

he'll have settled for it as that's what his legal team have told him to do

no doubt he now hates them along with everybody else in the world (other than his son and maybe rowetta) and they'll feel the wrath in his next book

Mr_D1sco wrote: Congratulations Lee on some of the stupidest posts I've ever seen!

It's a settlement agreement - therefore Hooky wouldn't have settled unless he agreed with it.

I'm sure there will be some kind of statement soon. For now he's probably just enjoying his payout. Lots of speculation on here from people who know nothing about it.

I've signed more than one settlement agreement with companies. I know how these things work.

Any and all statements will have been agreed amongst, alongside a 'be nice in public, or at the very least say nothing horrid about each other' clause.

If the above isn't in there, that's the first time I will ever have seen any clause like that omitted in three decades.

It's a contract that sets out an agreement that settles any areas of dispute in mutually agreed terms for clarity.

There's seems to be a noticeable reduction in JD/NO artwork on P-Hooky's websites.

What's left to milk / or mark? A 10 year anniversary special concert since leaving New Order maybe? Think The Light will fade away (ooof) and Monaco get revived. At least he's not DJing (or is he?).

I think we have a first post-settlement Hook interview.

"...in 2007, they wanted to carry on, him & Steve... I wouldn't have minded, ...the problem was how they did it." Plus ca change...?

[TWITTER]910937947213623297[/TWITTER]

Hook considers a fiction book:

[TWITTER]910934209170206721[/TWITTER]

Also says Technique is his favourite album. Not clear if he means fave NO album or a bigger picture.

An Australian radio station also did a looong interview with him. Sounds like he was on his mobile phone in an airport. It's pre-recorded so it may be a few days old. I get the impression that it's a small rado station and the presenter just lets Hooky waffle on and agrees with everything.

Anyway it's HERE. From about 16 mins to 40mins, non stop. I skipped through it a bit but, things that caught my ear:

It was Bobby Gillespie's idea to play the albums (I can't find it now. somewhere between 16 and 24 mins) 20 Mins: the only people who don't seem to enjoy what I'm doing is the rest of the band. 25.50: "Here we are in 2017 being as difficult as we possibly can with each other" 27 Mins: "When I watch new order now, it doesn't look like they're a happy little camp" 33 - 36 mins: Warners collector series is happening, with albums being released as box sets like the Led Zep II reissue. Hook says it was his idea and Warners said yes. Says a photographer has taken pics of the gear used to make each album. 36 mins: Spotify: you can dial up all your albums and play them in their entirety (uh oh, cue forum Spotify arguments!) 38 mins: Trying to persuade Pottsy to do a Monaco LP...in January. "I am a creative musician".

Debaser wrote:

"...in 2007, they wanted to carry on, him & Steve... I wouldn't have minded, ...the problem was how they did it."

That's certainly not what he was saying ten years ago. He was adamant that the band had split up.

Wow this ----person doesn't seem the ----. He seems a bit ----and ----. He probably ----and thinks ------- is good for the world.Oh dear.

Lol

I was crestfallen until i heard that Bongo and the Henge and UR2U, may just eclipse New Order, The Light , and everyone else with a new album of songs- I Still Haven't Found Why I'm Licking Fur. Meanwhile, in another year or two Peter may play live all of republic and technique ,all 18 sirens, all of Get Ready and all of those singles from that time, and out of control, ,too ,and even miracle cure, and all electronic songs live , then play the 12 BL songs I like ,too. what a wonderful future !

He must be watching a different New order if he says they don't look happy now!?

They look totally refreshed and free of tension since he left

Fotzepolitic wrote: Wow this Peter Hook person doesn't seem the --------- -----. He seems a bit --- and ------. He probably voted ----- and thinks ----- ---- is good for the world.Oh dear.

Not sure I follow.

Meanwhile Hook did do a 'statement' of sorts.

[TWITTER]911173278139641856[/TWITTER]

His "bigger picture" comments are fair enough, however these sort of issues tend not to be what he has been discussing in interviews since, what 2011? So if the Hook v NO saga was a book that Hook has been kinda narrating, then he's mostly banged on about the "behind my back", and "Sooty without Sweep" stuff, but then when he reaches the concluding(ish) chapter, he says: look at the other stuff going on in the world.
Didn't stop his "the way they did it" comments to that French radio station, mind you. I thought he would do a similar statement to NO's and then stop going on about it. But hey, what do I know?

Debaser wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: Wow this Peter Hook person doesn't seem the --------- -----. He seems a bit --- and ------. He probably voted ----- and thinks ----- ---- is good for the world.Oh dear.

Not sure I follow.

Meanwhile Hook did do a 'statement' of sorts.

[TWITTER]911173278139641856[/TWITTER]

His "bigger picture" comments are fair enough, however these sort of issues tend not to be what he has been discussing in interviews since, what 2011? So if the Hook v NO saga was a book that Hook has been kinda narrating, then he's mostly banged on about the "behind my back", and "Sooty without Sweep" stuff, but then when he reaches the concluding(ish) chapter, he says: look at the other stuff going on in the world.
Didn't stop his "the way they did it" comments to that French radio station, mind you. I thought he would do a similar statement to NO's and then stop going on about it. But hey, what do I know?

An example of "self-moderation". Not to be confused with what Monkhouse does to himself over Mel C. (without moderation).