Movement - The Definitive Edition

According to an in-depth article in the new Uncut magazine, a box set is due for release on March 29th.

Looks to contain lots of demos and alternative mixes, live shows (both audio and video) and other stuff. Basically what Steve and Hooky have been collating over the past few years. So not one box set as we thought but possibly the start of a series.

"Movement has long been regarded as New Order’s transitional album, a rebirth following the tragic end of Joy Division. Even its creators have mixed feelings about it almost 40 years later. Peter Hook calls movement “Joy Division with New Order vocals”; Bernard Sumner, “the faltering steps of an infant”. But in its newly expanded boxset, movement unquestionably gains in stature and significance. A raw demo version of the album, recorded at Cargo studios in Rochdale but never released before, captures some of the tougher punk edge the band was always pushing for against the wishes of producer Martin Hannett. “What was interesting to me was there’s another version of movement which is just demos,”says Stephen Morris. “Not vastly different from what we ended up with, but there was no Hannett-induced torture involved.”More satisfying is the broader context the boxset brings to this uncertain, experimental chapter in New Order’s history. The album package and its four accompanying 12-inch single reissues show that the band were already developing their electronic direction on tracks like “Procession”, “Hurt”, “Everything’s Gone Green”and “Temptation”. Several futuristic, forward-looking tracks were excluded from the album, largely because of New Order’s principled commitment to standalone singles. “If we hadn’t been quite so political about it, movement could have ended up a very different album,”Morris nods. “Because ‘Everything’s Gone Green’wasn’t on movement, or ‘Hurt’. There were synths just two stops along, and if we’d included all those tracks movement would have been quite different. But as it is, movement is just a snapshot of a few months of our lives.”

"The boxset’s additional audio and DVD discs also contain some electrifying early live performances spanning 1981 to 1983, including the embryonic New Order’s New York debut at Hurrah on September 27, 1980, with all three founder members sharing vocals. Though wildly erratic, these shows have a ragged, drunken, explosive energy that feels punk both in sound and spirit. There is also a session at the city’s Peppermint Lounge from 1981, TV sessions from Granada Studios in 1981 and BBC Riverside the following year. Along with Stephen Morris and the band’s co-manager Andy Robinson, Peter Hook was a key driving force behind the boxset and hopes it will be the first of many expanded New Order reissues."

"the handful of tracks new order recorded in sheffield, long available as scratchy bootlegs, receive their first official release on the Movement boxset. Completed in a single night, with all three band members alternating lead vocals, the session yielded rough versions of “Ceremony”,“dreams never end” and “truth”. the band also laid down a rowdy glam-punk number called “homage”, which they never revisited, and a spoofy funk-rap jam featuring Mal and rob Gretton on vocals, later titled “Are You ready Are You ready Are You ready for this?”"

Woah! That’s quite a scoop , djrigby. Many thanks. I had the latest copy of Uncut in my hands in WH Smith the other day ( Jack White on cover), had a brief flick through but didn’t see this. Or maybe that was last month’s edition i had in my hands. Jack White on cover anyway.

So the long mooted box sets are finally underway? They’re finally in a position to release the Hurrahs footage?

12” singles from the period, demos, live footage... 29th March yer say, can’t think of anything else happening that day.

Don't worry, the release date is going to be shifted into April now, 29th March wasn't such a good idea.

Just had a flick thru January edition of Uncut in WH Smith- can’t find article. I guess it’s in the February edition( not reached this neck of the woods yet) Magazines and their issues being dated a month and a half before the actual month,

The wondrous world of New Order rererererererrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeleases:

1. A vague, subliminal, non-committal blip Googletranslated from an Andora fanpage.
2. Everyone on this forum gets an instant boner and with its free hand bashes out mutually exclusive tracklists that are so HOT they make a jacuzzi with Cameron Diaz and Mel C look like a wet dip in Skegness with David Cameron and Merkel.
3. I say Fuck you, there'll be fuck all for years and even then it'll be more fuck all or like anal sex, i.e. fucking shit.
4. They respond, No, fuck YOU you fucking negative cynicfulness fucking WANKER, I mean HELLO? Does yer even fucking LIKES at New Order, stop fucking moaning groaning griping whining whinging, WE LIKE OUR BONERS, so kindly point yours away from our joint bonfire.
5. There's fuck all for years and even then it's more fuck all or like anal sex, i.e. fucking shit
6. Repeat until death or sex.

Now now,Michael

Though i guess you could have a point.If these do turn out to be a series of box sets of each album in turn we could be looking at a long long time if ever for any new material. Say they release one box set a year this could go on for years. Or even if it’s two box sets a year. Say they release Power, Corruption & Lies : The Definitive Edition in late 2019 and so on and so on each year they could dine out on these box sets for the rest of their lives and never record anything new. Just hypothesising.

Ah yes. Mr Monkhouse. One of the reasons I don't frequent this forum or contribute much. Can't be doing with all that shite.

Anyway, for you less odd fans, the new Uncut is up on Kindle. New Order are on the cover and there's an extensive article on Movement. Not in the shops yet as far as I know.

I'd screenshot some of it but can't upload from phone on here.

We'll see. Don't hold your breath... There can't be much more to said about how they started like JD and then etc etc etc.

djrigby1969 wrote: Ah yes. Mr Monkhouse. One of the reasons I don't frequent this forum or contribute much. Can't be doing with all that shite.

Anyway, for you less odd fans, the new Uncut is up on Kindle. New Order are on the cover and there's an extensive article on Movement. Not in the shops yet as far as I know.

I'd screenshot some of it but can't upload from phone on here.

Thanks.

I've grabbed the Kindle edition.Amazon are doing a one month free trial for Uncut magazine Kindle subscription.I don't have a a Kindle device but was able to download the app to my iPhone.Downloaded the new edition of Uncut with New Order on cover.8 page article.Looks good, going to read it now.

Here yer go.Bit naughty of me but i created a PDF of the article.Text is a little difficult to read in places as i had to and could only take screenshots from my iPhone of the Kindle edition.But with a bit of zooming in here n there it's readable.

New Order - Uncut magazine Feb 2019 edition. PDF

djrigby1969 wrote: According to an in-depth article in the new Uncut magazine, a box set is due for release

Thanks for this.

djrigby1969 wrote: So not one box set as we thought but possibly the start of a series.

Did we think that? For the last year or so, the forum has been kinda expecting a series, and even saying: where are they? Mentioned Here: (reply #23): "33 - 36 mins: Warners collector series is happening, with albums being released as box sets like the Led Zep II reissue. Hook says it was his idea and Warners said yes. Says a photographer has taken pics of the gear used to make each album." Also mentioned ... in a bunch of other threads that I can't link to because the forum has gone laggy.

"the handful of tracks new order recorded in sheffield, long available as scratchy bootlegs, receive their first official release on the Movement boxset. Completed in a single night, with all three band members alternating lead vocals, the session yielded rough versions of “Ceremony”,“dreams never end” and “truth”. the band also laid down a rowdy glam-punk number called “homage”, which they never revisited, and a spoofy funk-rap jam featuring Mal and rob Gretton on vocals, later titled “Are You ready Are You ready Are You ready for this?”"

So Western Works will be on there. Funny of them to describe what's already 'out there' as scratchy (salesmsanship, eh?). The digital download I have isn't particularly scratchy, although of course they sound like demos, and probably still will when they end up in the box set. Of course it makes sense to include them, but will they sound noticably better? Nah.

Johnny James wrote: Don't worry, the release date is going to be shifted into April now, 29th March wasn't such a good idea.

Ha funny! If it's a No-Deal Brexit there could be anarchy in the uk by the time we get to PC&L... How much are these gonna cost Mr James? I'm guessing something north of £50?

Michael Monkhouse wrote: The wondrous world of New Order rererererererrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeleases:

1. A vague, subliminal, non-committal blip Googletranslated from an Andora fanpage.
2. Everyone on this forum gets an instant boner and with its free hand bashes out mutually exclusive tracklists that are so HOT they make a jacuzzi with Cameron Diaz and Mel C look like a wet dip in Skegness with David Cameron and Merkel.
3. I say Fuck you, there'll be fuck all for years and even then it'll be more fuck all or like anal sex, i.e. fucking shit.
4. They respond, No, fuck YOU you fucking negative cynicfulness fucking WANKER, I mean HELLO? Does yer even fucking LIKES at New Order, stop fucking moaning groaning griping whining whinging, WE LIKE OUR BONERS, so kindly point yours away from our joint bonfire.
5. There's fuck all for years and even then it's more fuck all or like anal sex, i.e. fucking shit
6. Repeat until death or sex.

Oh NOW we get the rant. Why didn't we get this the other day when I posted Phil's tweet saying: "no new music, more gigs"? You were all sanguine saying: Maybe they won't improve on Music Complete etc.

Fotzepolitic wrote: Now now,Michael

Though i guess you could have a point... they could dine out on these box sets for the rest of their lives and never record anything new. Just hypothesising.

They could, then again Underworld have been reissuing their albums as box sets but also making new music. Just to offer another perspective. False hope can be a killer, mind you!

djrigby1969 wrote: Ah yes. Mr Monkhouse. One of the reasons I don't frequent this forum or contribute much. Can't be doing with all that shite.

Harsh. Mr Monkhouse is an aspiring comedian (not exactly Jerry Seinfeld, or even Bob Monkhouse), and ranty 'comedy' is his schtick. Rhod Gilbert makes a good living out of it. Mind you the Spice Girls stuff could do with a rest.

djrigby1969 wrote: I'd screenshot some of it but can't upload from phone on here.

FYI for the future (and anyone else reading): If you sign up to a free image hosting website like Tinypic or Photobucket, you can upload pics to there, and then use the "insert image" option here on the forum to embed them from Tinypic/photobucket.

Fotzepolitic wrote: I've grabbed the Kindle edition.Amazon are doing a one month free trial for Uncut magazine Kindle subscription.I don't have a a Kindle device but was able to download the app to my iPhone.Downloaded the new edition of Uncut with New Order on cover.8 page article.Looks good, going to read it now.

Oh they've added Hooky. That mockup makes me yearn for the good ole days. Ahh... I wonder if I can put this on my new android Hauwei Chinese spy phone, or my 4 y/o samsung tablet, or my amazon firestick?...

Debaser wrote:

Oh they've added Hooky. That mockup makes me yearn for the good ole days. Ahh... I wonder if I can put this on my new android Hauwei Chinese spy phone, or my 4 y/o samsung tablet, or my amazon firestick?...

The Amazon page for the edition of Uncut has a drop down menu that lists what Kindle is available on

Very minimal cover for the box.Not a font i don't think i've seen New Order use before.

Oh my bloody life!

Colour me excited.

This is f***ing brilliant news (and I rarely swear).

So much good stuff on this. Western Works and Movement Demos. DVD material, including the Hurrah’s stuff. Magnificent.

Seriously, I’m as pumped as I possibly could be.

And don’t worry, Fotz. I’m sure they’ll be recording again within the next year or two.

Ah, man. I’m ridiculously excited by this.

Hope it will not be released as "vinyl only"...

Hot diggity dog , as my namesake, Uncle KeepItComing would say . And Bless NewOrder and all their great wonders. And for those that sense the divine within them, dear God, may they create two more albums of 10-20 songs each ,as long as they have only really great songs not almost greats like working overtime( it should have had french horns ,bassoons ,and oboes), no vietnams, free falling or bohemian rhapsody , and help them find old charms from technique and Republic,too. Thanks God I miss all those magazines Q ,Mojo, Little White Lies,uncut , spitfires , and Rupert Christmas annuals , but .the Cochise and Geronimo native American trading center has lots of turquoise, but alas , zero british mags and such And thanks to lots of dollars for PF box sets with marvels of Richard,David ,Syd ,Nick , and early Roger, there is only enough money now anyways for whatever NewOrder feels like putting out for us . Just imagine if the Stones get box happy , 40 boxes ,lps, art , music, pictures of cats , whew ,it could cost 15,000 dollars

Jcp7 wrote: Hope it will not be released as "vinyl only"...

I’ve just been wondering about this myself. I remember Hooky said in an interview he wanted the boxes to include both vinyl and CD, which is probably a bit excessive (at least I think that’s what he said).

If they did release a vinyl box and a CD box as separate options, I’d be torn as to which one to get.

I only play CDs and don’t have a turntable, so the latter seems the obvious choice. However, I’d like the large format to show off the sleeve artwork (mmm, Saville sleeves) and the (presumably) accompanying book. I would only get this, though, if it included everything that was in the CD set as downloads.

The CD set would presumably be smaller, though, and that might be better for storage.

Decisions, decisions.

I just want to see track listings now. Still can’t believe Hurrah’s is going to be on this. I’ve seen clips of this footage and it is incredible. The footage is up close to the band and is really clear. Steve singing Procession from behind the keyboard and Ceremony / Cries & Whispers (verses only) from behind his drum kit.

Take my money now.

It's one record, 2 CDs and a DVD.

Johnny James wrote: It's one record, 2 CDs and a DVD.

Ta. Is that in the 'Uncut' article?

Presumably then:

1 x vinyl record containing the original LP 1 x CD containing the four singles and related b-sides (Ceremony, Procession, EGG & Temptation)*. 1 x CD containing the Western Works demos, LP demos and some live performances**. 1 x DVD containing Celebration, Riverside, Hurrah's and some other live performances**.

* It wouldn't surprise me if this disc contains the Hewick tracks - 'Haystack' and, possibly, 'A Piece Of Fate' (if this still exists), as Hewick is interviewed in the article. I think they definitely deserve a place on the set.

** The article mentions 'early live performances' but doesn't state if they're audio or video. I wonder if the Peppermint Lounge gig is audio or video, also.

perspexorange wrote:

Johnny James wrote: It's one record, 2 CDs and a DVD.

Ta. Is that in the 'Uncut' article?

Presumably then:

1 x vinyl record containing the original LP 1 x CD containing the four singles and related b-sides (Ceremony, Procession, EGG & Temptation)*. 1 x CD containing the Western Works demos, LP demos and some live performances**. 1 x DVD containing Celebration, Riverside, Hurrah's and some other live performances**.

* It wouldn't surprise me if this disc contains the Hewick tracks - 'Haystack' and, possibly, 'A Piece Of Fate' (if this still exists), as Hewick is interviewed in the article. I think they definitely deserve a place on the set.

** The article mentions 'early live performances' but doesn't state if they're audio or video. I wonder if the Peppermint Lounge gig is audio or video, also.

I think the press goes out tomorrow so full tracklists will be known.

To clarify the discs though, it's (remastered) Movement on vinyl & CD, an extras CD with all the rare audio on, and a DVD (which runs to nearly three hours).

All live material is video.

Excellent!

Nearly 3 hours of video material?! Wow!! That's amazing.

This just gets better and better... :-)

I'm hoping that, as well as the video stuff already mentioned, we get the tracks from the 'Factory Complication' and 'A Factory Video' VHS, plus possibly other tracks from these three gigs.

Also, possibly, if there's anymore Glasto '81 or Rome '82 footage, that would be great.

Wonder if they'll include Taras Shevchenko too; just for completeness.

Cracking stuff. Had wondered if the Hurrah thing would just be audio but if all the live stuff is video it’ll be the footage. Wow, so they finally twisted the arm of that lady who owned it.

Fotzepolitic wrote: Cracking stuff. Had wondered if the Hurrah thing would just be audio but if all the live stuff is video it’ll be the footage. Wow, so they finally twisted the arm of that lady who owned it.

Looks that way. I'm so pleased. Was beginning to think that we'd never get to see it.

Just been re-reading the article and the following sentence has confused me a little:

“The album package and its four accompanying 12-inch single reissues”

It almost seems as if the album ‘package’ is separate from individual single ‘reissues’.

If, as Johnny says, the set only contains two audio CDs, including one comprising the LP and the other with rare tracks, it doesn’t seem to leave a lot of room for the tracks on the singles (presumably 2 x Ceremony, Procession, C&W, Mesh and 12” versions of IALP, EGG, Temptation & Hurt).

Unless the singles are tagged on the end of the LP (is there even room for all of them there?), I can’t see they’d be included on the ‘rare tracks’ disc. There wouldn’t be enough room with them, LP demos and Western Works demos.

So, is there a separate ‘Singles Box 1’ companion coming? Or are they planning on just re-releasing the individual singles?

I guess we’ll find out soon. I just like to speculate.

The problem with Movement is the songs aren't very good. The song selection and production could have been much better.

My Definitive Edition:

1. Chosen Time
2. Senses
3. Dreams Never End (instrumental)

In general, out-takes/demos are unreleased for a reason but another opportunity for our heroes to fill their pockets. Bah and down with this.......or give it away free.

(Didnt they mess up the Movement Deluxe remasters first time round?)

Debaser wrote: Mind you the Spice Girls stuff could do with a rest.

Yes, it's Too Much, so What I Want, What I Really, Really Want is for it to Stop Right Now, Thank You Very Much. Goodbye, my friend... This story interested me in my teens, but after 35 years The Novelty Has Gone.

Movement is great.

Not their greatest, no, but still worthy. There are no bad tracks on it. The main issue with it is that it lacks (m)any killer tracks.

As regards lining their pockets, there’s a degree of that. But the same could be said of any artist. At the end of the day, New Order is a business and they have to pay bills. This involves releasing material (both new and archive), merchandise and touring. Yeah, we’d all like a new LP each year, but that’s pie in the sky. Never gonna happen.

I’m more than happy to line the band’s pockets for unrelaleased demos and 3 hours of video material. Better that than yet another ‘best of’, eh?

Michael Monkhouse wrote: This story interested me in my teens, but after 35 years The Novelty Has Gone.

So why hang around? If the band don’t interest you anymore, Michael, move on. That’s what I’d do. Plenty of great bands out there, releasing new music every few months. Follow them.

I’m not being snarky and I know you’re mainly just being playful. It just seems to me that the band doesn’t give you any pleasure anymore. The sooner you accept that New Order are never going to be a band releasing new material frequently and that they will, from time to time, revisit their legacy, the happier you’ll be.

The problem with Movement was Hannett’s involvement. He did incredible work on JD’s albums and later on with stuff like the Monday’s Bummed but Movement suffers from his production. Listen to the Movement tracks live on Taras Shevchenko or the Peel Session- fantastic.

Yep. I’ve always thought that the production seems a little ‘dull’, for want of a better word. ‘Dull’ as in ‘not bright’, rather than boring. But the songs are great. And I still like the LP versions, but agree that the Peel / Live versions are better.

Debaser wrote:

aspiring comedian

Like, a wannnabe? The Peel and gig versions show it could've been better with less lavish production (like Republic). Still hard to enjoy though. There's the odd gem to uncover (http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=22401#post22401) but yeah, feels like I've been here before.

This is really exciting news - I'm wildly curious to hear the Movement demo - when you listen to the live performances of that time the songs sound more urgent and with synths and bass lines I never noticed on the album and singles of that period. Also, as a former long time resident of Hoboken (aka, the 6th borough), the 9/21/80 Maxwell's performance really was their first NYC gig :)

IIRC correctly, their gear was stolen between the two NY gigs, with the Hurrah's gig being the first gig after they hired new equipment (with Hooky have to relearn his 6-string parts on a 4-string).

I was hoping for an announcement today, but no luck so far.

Been thinking about the 'Celebration' and 'Riverside' material that we know is going to be on there. There's always a chance that the video material may contain some of the tracks from those two sessions that weren't broadcast. They played two sets during the 'Celebration' session of 10 and 8 songs respectively, but Granada only broadcast 6 songs. Also, they played 7 songs during the 'Riverside' session, but the BBC only broadcast 2 songs.

Always a possibility we may get to see some of the other tracks.

Johnny James wrote:

I think the press goes out tomorrow so full tracklists will be known.

To clarify the discs though, it's (remastered) Movement on vinyl & CD, an extras CD with all the rare audio on, and a DVD (which runs to nearly three hours).

All live material is video.

Well tomorrow is now today. Is there a press pack online or something?

Debaser wrote:

Johnny James wrote:

I think the press goes out tomorrow so full tracklists will be known.

To clarify the discs though, it's (remastered) Movement on vinyl & CD, an extras CD with all the rare audio on, and a DVD (which runs to nearly three hours).

All live material is video.

Well tomorrow is now today. Is there a press pack online or something?

It hasn't happened yet. I know an announcement is imminent, maybe later in the week?

I'm so bleeding impatient. I want the track listings yesterday. :-)

Talking of unbroadcast tracks from 'Celebration', I've only just noticed that the version of 'Chosen Time' included on the 'Glasgow' DVD is a completely different take (Take #1) than the one that was broadcast on the TV programme (Take #2).

Note the slight changes in lyrics in at least one place for start:

'Believe that all this distance keeps me alone' (take #1) (Glasgow DVD version) 'Believe that all this distance keeps me awake' (take #2) (broadcast version, Granada TV)

(Sorry - I'm in trainspotter territory, I know)

'Ceremony' and 'ICB' are the same versions on the DVD as was broadcast, I think (although there were definitely two takes of 'Ceremony' recorded at the session).

So, there you go. I've had an unbroadcast version of one of the tracks from that session for 10 years and never noticed. I'll go back to sleep now.

perspexorange wrote: Talking of unbroadcast tracks from 'Celebration', I've only just noticed that the version of 'Chosen Time' included on the 'Glasgow' DVD is a completely different take (Take #1) than the one that was broadcast on the TV programme (Take #2).

Note the slight changes in lyrics in at least one place for start:

'Believe that all this distance keeps me alone' (take #1) (Glasgow DVD version) 'Believe that all this distance keeps me awake' (take #2) (broadcast version, Granada TV)

(Sorry - I'm in trainspotter territory, I know)

'Ceremony' and 'ICB' are the same versions on the DVD as was broadcast, I think (although there were definitely two takes of 'Ceremony' recorded at the session).

So, there you go. I've had an unbroadcast version of one of the tracks from that session for 10 years and never noticed. I'll go back to sleep now.

You're right about Chosen Time. Also, Ceremony and ICB are the original live sound. The broadcast versions had overdubs done to them a few days later.

Cheers Johnny.

Is there a good example where I can hear the overdubs / differences on one of these tracks? My old ears have difficulty picking out things like this.

perspexorange wrote: Cheers Johnny.

Is there a good example where I can hear the overdubs / differences on one of these tracks? My old ears have difficulty picking out things like this.

Compare the first notes Bernard plays on Ceremony for a start, and the overall instrument mix.

Ta. I’ll check it out when I get home tonight.

Years ago I was chucking out my old Smash Tits and came across a review of Movement by Neil Tennant (yes). Unlike most listeners, he praised it for NOT relying on the past and awarded a generous 8 / 10. The only quibble was the vocal - 'more passion, please' - cool, given what he'd do to Always On My Mind. There was also an interview with Gillian after Temptation. Next ish 'A Dead Soul' wrote in to complain 'How could you write New Order on the cover and have photos of the whole band when you were just talking to Gillian?' Ed's response: 'Oh. So interviews are all MEN'S work, are they?' I don't think that was Mr Soul's point.

On New Orders Instagram today (but not on tehir website yet, for some uknown reason):

neworderofficial🔷 New Order are proud to announce the Movement 'Definitive Edition', a boxed set release of their debut album 🔷

Coming 5th April 2019. Link in bio to pre-order. The set features the original audio on vinyl and CD, unreleased tracks and demos, footage of live shows and TV appearances of the time and a hard backed book. #Movement

glad to see some interest in this.

only thing i wonder about is the cost. but in the end it won't matter. will get it anyways.

later -1

Tracklisting here

https://www.uncut.co.uk/news/new-order-always-future-108692/amp

120 notes ouch... worth it 4 dvd alone! hope the other box sets follow with similar attention to live video performances

https://store.neworder.com

This is great news although not for my bank account. I would like to see whats actually on it though and I'm assuming these will be the Frank Arkwright remasters from 2015. Does seem a bit pricey but obviously i have to have it whatever!

Initial comments/observations:

• Tracklist for Ceremony 12"s make reference to "Version 1" and "Version 2" of 'Ceremony' but not for 'In A Lonely Place'. There are two, subtly different versions of this B-side on both releases (more synthesised thunder clap effects on the second version). Wonder if this is an oversight, or will one version erroneously appear on both twelve inches?

• Nice to see no tracks repeated from the 'Collectors Edition' bonus discs (although an annoyance for those that don't have them or didn't get their faulty versions replaced with the corrected ones). Would have been ludicrous to sell them to us die hard fans once again, and the two bonus discs from both releases will combine to make a nice three disc set of all related tracks from that period.

• Wonder if 'Temptation (Alternate 7") is the edited 7 inch version from the 'Something Wild' soundtrack or another take?

• Digital lossless or mp3 downloads of the audio from the DVD tracks would be a great addition to this set (hint hint), as I doubt I'll watch the DVD that many times but would like to listen to it on the move without all the hassle of ripping the audio from the DVD.

• Ridiculous price (£120). I don't need the 4 x 12" inch singles so will forgo the "bundle" for the extra tenner. Not too bothered about owning the vinyl LP or remastered CD of the original album either. So I resent having to pay £120 for 1 bonus CD, 1 DVD and a book. How about releasing a cheaper set with just the 2 CDs, 1 DVD and the content of the book in the cover booklet? Or digital versions online where I can just download the tracks that interest me?

I'm hoping there will be some form of cheaper way to get hold of the new content without having to fork out so much...

Apologies if this has been posted but track list on Amazon here: Movement (Definitive Edition) [VINYL] https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07LGS5TVR/ref=cm\_sw\_r\_cp\_api\_i\_nyMgCb7HJ7R2F

Mr Discography wrote:

Nice to see no tracks repeated from the 'Collectors Edition' bonus discs (although an annoyance for those that don't have them or didn't get their faulty versions replaced with the corrected ones). Would have been ludicrous to sell them to us die hard fans once again, and the two bonus discs from both releases will combine to make a nice three disc set of all related tracks from that period.

Oh yeah so we don't get the 12" single versions of EGG and Temptation etc. I'm surprised actually.

Mr Discography wrote:

• Ridiculous price (£120).

Yep.

Mr Discography wrote:

I'm hoping there will be some form of cheaper way to get hold of the new content

Bet there isn't, until it ends up online not-quite-legally.

£120, it must be à missprint. If not, fuck off!

I’m wondering now how many fuck ups will occur during this campaign? Imagine if they managed it flawlessly?! I can’t see myself buying all the 12”s again, be interesting to see how they compare though and how far up to?

It would be nice if they could fit a track or 2 from Movement at their upcoming shows to promote it but everyone knows how Bernard feels about singing on Movement.

Definitely think "In a Lonely Place" could replace "Decades" since they have already 3 JD songs in the mix. I think "Everything's Gone Green" or "The Him" would fit well too.

Mr Discography wrote: Initial comments/observations:

• Tracklist for Ceremony 12"s make reference to "Version 1" and "Version 2" of 'Ceremony' but not for 'In A Lonely Place'. There are two, subtly different versions of this B-side on both releases (more synthesised thunder clap effects on the second version). Wonder if this is an oversight, or will one version erroneously appear on both twelve inches?

When we were putting Recycle together we did a lot of A/B comparison, and discovered that the alternate version didn't actually surface until CD2 of Substance in 1987. Hopefully, if they continue with these sets, Substance will get a box.

Fotzepolitic wrote: Very minimal cover for the box.Not a font i don't think i've seen New Order use before.

Reminds me of the special boxed cassette editions released through Woolworths in 1986.

Hmm... where to start? Well to start i won't be putting an order in this side of christmas.

Amazon appear to be advertising the non bundle edition at a little cheaper than the New Order store.They have it at £109. .Though i'm starting to dislike Amazon when i read about their treatment of workers.

Some interesting stuff on the DVD- Amongst others all the songs from BBC Riverside 1982 ,NY Peppermint Lounge 1981 and footage from various gigs in 1981-1982 including Newcastle, Paris, Manchester, Minneapolis, Toronto and Norwich.Think the DVD disc will be of most interest to me.There's a fair bit there i've never seen.

50poundnote wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: Very minimal cover for the box.Not a font i don't think i've seen New Order use before.

Reminds me of the special boxed cassette editions released through Woolworths in 1986.

In NewOrder store, the photo of the box appears to show the print is quite nicely embossed (if you click the enlarge photo option on the page at NewOrder store)

I’ve justified it by the good wife buying it for my birthday, and then they go and charge you £11 postage!!!.. The amount I’ve spent on new order these last 30 years does not bear thinking about.....but the pleasure though, the pleasure they bring

£120 is ridiculous and seems very steep for 4 discs (1 vinyl, 2 CD, 1 DVD), a book and a box. I will still get one though, obviously.

As someone else pointed out, it's currently £109 at Amazon for the LP box set (I imagine the prize will drop to just under £100 nearer to the time). There are advantages to ordering through Amazon. Firstly, they have their price promise (you pay the cheapest price that the product is advertised for on their site; so if the price increases, you still pay the lower price). Secondly, is the free shipping, which I think they still do (don't they?). I know you have to wait a little longer but it's better than paying £11 postage (was that for the LP & the 12"s, or just the LP?). I have Prime, so ordering through Amazon is no-brainer for me.

That being said, I'm almost tempted to buy the bundle from the website, as £130 seems a better deal (relatively, of course). You get 4 x 12"s for an extra £10. Buying the box from Amazon and the individual 12"s from NewOrder.com would set you back £150.

But, as I've said before, I don't have a turntable, so I'd just be buying them to look at. Which seems a bit pointless. I wish they'd've released more info / pics, i.e. do the 12"s come with download codes? How about original artwork on the labels? Wasn't Temptation embossed on the back? If so, has this been replicated?

Also, it's a trifle annoying that the 7" versions aren't included somewhere on the 12"s. Maybe as downloads only.

However, the DVD material looks absolutely fantastic. I'm going to study the track listings a little more closely and post more here after.

Mr Discography wrote: Wonder if 'Temptation (Alternate 7") is the edited 7 inch version from the 'Something Wild' soundtrack or another take?

That was my thinking too.

Wonder if the Procession rehearsal is the same one from bootlegs that have been circulating for a number of years.

Looking forward to hearing the Cargo demos and the 1st mix of Ceremony.

They've got the date wrong, should be 1st April. £120 for that is shocking. Ouch! Disc 4 looks interesting but Steve has already said the demos are not that different to the released versions - listened to once and never again in my experience. Hopefully also comes with a nice book of pics of Cargo Studios and Ian's melodica.

OK - so let's break the DVD down, as this is where the real goodness is:

New Order – Movement DVD

Live Shows

Hurrah’s, NY 1980

In A Lonely Place Procession Dreams Never End Mesh Truth Cries & Whispers Denial Ceremony

Recorded on 27th September, 1980. Produced, directed and filmed by Merrill Aldighieri

What can I say about this? This is magnificent stuff. Only their fifth NO gig and the band is sans Gillian. Steve singing Procession, Ceremony (verses only, probably, with Hooky doing chorus) & possibly also Cries & Whispers (verses only, with Hooky definitely doing the chorus). That Cries & Whispers chorus only appears on these early live performances. They dropped it for the 12" release.

The clips I've seen of this performance are stunning. Great quality footage of the band in pretty raw form.

The only puzzling thing is 'Denial' being listed. As far as I'm aware, it wasn't played at this gig (I don't think it had been written at this point). Strangely, slicingupeyeballs.com have possibly noticed this and removed it from their report of the track listing.

Peppermint Lounge, NY 1981

In A Lonely Place Dreams Never End Chosen Time ICB Senses Denial Everything’s Gone Green Hurt – instrumental Temptation

This gig appears to be complete. No idea what the quality is going to be like, but I'm looking forward to seeing it.

TV Sessions Granada Studios 1981

Doubts Even Here The Him Procession Senses Denial

This is very odd. As stated earlier in the thread, the band performed two sessions for the 'Celebration' show (10 & 8 songs / takes respectively). The programme only broadcast 6 songs; Dreams Never End (2nd session, 3rd attempt after two aborted ones), ICB (1st session), Chosen Time (1st session, Take 2), Denial (1st session, Take 1), Ceremony (1st session, Take 1) & Truth (1st session, Take 2). Two of the broadcast songs made it the Glasgow DVD (Ceremony & ICB), which also included the other version of Chosen Time that was recorded (1st session, Take 1).

So this new DVD seems to only include tracks that haven't been previously shown. It's possible that the version of Denial is the same as the broadcast one, but it seems more likely that this is the one not broadcast (i.e 2nd session, Take 2). The reason I say this is the order of session 2, which was Dreams Never End, The Him, Procession (Take 2), Senses & Denial (Take 2). The last 4 tracks seem to follow this order.

It seems very odd that they aren't including the actual broadcast songs, although it will be really nice to see the other tracks for once.

Cont'd

Very interested to see the other tracks never aired on Riverside. I’m assuming they’re decent quality , wouldn’t be released otherwise. Same goes for the other footage; Peppermint Lounge, Newcastle, Norwich Pennies etc.

Not sure I’ll get the bundle edition with the 4 12” singles. But I don’t actually own the green cover Ceremony ( have all the others in the bundle) so will probably just buy the re-released green sleeve Ceremony,£10,when it’s released 8th March 2019 and buy the non bundle edition Movement Definitive through Amazon £109 so total expense £120. But then there’s postage cost ( from NewOrder store at least, for the Ceremony re-release unless I buy it elsewhere if that’s possible and cheaper)

Oh god, not this old Ceremony chestnut again. I always thought the green sleeve version without Gillian and which was recorded in New Jersey in September 1980 came first in March 1981 and the cream sleeve version which does feature Gillian came later in September 1981. New Order store seem to be stating the green sleeve has the second version ( Gillian included version and which is on Substance) . I want the green sleeve and with the first version ( New Jersey September 80 version, no Gillian though no disrespect to her) . Or have New Order store mixed up? They appear to be stating the green sleeve has the second version. In summary I want the green sleeve with the first version. I don’t want to buy the green sleeve and find it has the second ( September 81 with Gillian) version .

I believe, if I’m not mistaken, New Order store have got the sleeves the wrong way round..The description below the green sleeve is of the cream sleeve release and states it’s a cream sleeve despite the picture showing the green sleeve.

TV Sessions (Cont'd)

BBC Riverside 1982 Temptation Chosen Time Procession Hurt – instrumental Senses Denial In A Lonely Place

This appears to be complete. Only the first two tracks were shown at the time, so being able to see all the tracks that weren't broadcast is going to be great. I loved the two tracks shown, so am thrilled to see this.

Gillian at her most goth too!.

Extras

1. Ceremony CoManCHE Student Union

This footage, filmed on 06/02/81, wass included on the 'A Factory Video' VHS and is a nice inclusion here. It's bit of a shame that the other track from this video (In A Lonely Place, Imperial Cinema, Birmingham, 23/01/82) isn't included.

2. In A Lonely Place Toronto 1981

This is presumably from 15/11/81. I'm a bit perplexed about this. I didn't know the gig was filmed. Also, it's placement here, just after Ceremony at Comanche, makes me wonder if this is actually the Imperial Cinema footage from 'A Factory Video' and has just been mislabelled. Perhaps the original Factory video was mislabelled instead. I have a note that there was an item on Toronto TV back in 1981, but I have never seen this. It's therefore possible that the gig was filmed and bits were broadcast on Canadian TV. Who knows? We'll find out in April.

3. Temptation Soul Kitchen, Newcastle 1982

This is presumably from 11/03/82. I didn't know this was filmed either.

4. Hurt Le Palace, Paris 1982
5. Procession Le Palace, Paris 1982

I have the first three and half tracks of this gig on a murky bootleg (In A Lonely Place, Temptation, Chosen Time and half of Truth). The footage was taken in the audience and seems to be amateur. It seems a little unlikely that the new DVD will include audience footage, so a pro-shot video probably exists. I'm not sure why only the two tracks above were selected. Presumably these 'extra' tracks are just that; bonuses to the two main gigs and two TV shows included on the DVD.

Chosen Time Pennies 1982

This is presumably from 24/05/82. I didn't know this had been recorded.

Truth The Haçienda 1983

This is presumably from 26/01/83. I didn't know this was filmed but it would make sense that it was. Most of the band's gigs at this venue appear to have been filmed. For instance the 20/07/83 gig was filmed and shown on 'Play At Home'.

ICB Minneapolis 1983

This 29/06/83 gig has been bootlegged for years. This is 'pro' footage and is a welcome addition to the new DVD. I only wish more of the gig had been included. Maybe we'll see some of the Power Corruption & Lies tracks from this gig on that box set.

Cont'd

Cont'd

So what's not included?:

'The Factory Complication' tracks (Everything's Gone Green & Truth from L'Ancienne Belgique) 'Taras Shevchenko' 'A Factory Video' (In A Lonely Place from Imperial Cinema, Birmingham) 'RockAmerica' (Ceremony from the 1981 US tour) 'Celebration ' (the missing tracks, as mentioned above) Glastonbury 1981 (from the Glasgow DVD, plus other footage if this exists) Rome 1982 (from the Glasgow DVD, plus other footage if this exists) Hal 4, Rotterdam (clips of gig and backstage exist) SO36, Berlin (the complete gig has been circulating for years; excellent pro footage) Rochdale 1981 (audience clip of Ceremony; possibly other footage exists) Any other footage from Toronto, Newcastle, Le Palace, Pennies, The Haçienda and Minneapolis (see above).

But these are minor quibbles. I am LOVING what's being included. April can't come soon enough!

Fotzepolitic wrote: Oh god, not this old Ceremony chestnut again. I always thought the green sleeve version without Gillian and which was recorded in New Jersey in September 1980 came first in March 1981 and the cream sleeve version which does feature Gillian came later in September 1981. New Order store seem to be stating the green sleeve has the second version ( Gillian included version and which is on Substance) . I want the green sleeve and with the first version ( New Jersey September 80 version, no Gillian though no disrespect to her) . Or have New Order store mixed up? They appear to be stating the green sleeve has the second version. In summary I want the green sleeve with the first version. I don’t want to buy the green sleeve and find it has the second ( September 81 with Gillian) version .

Yeah. that's certainly what I thought too. As I understand it, the green sleeve was released first and this included the original three-piece version. The cream / blue stripe sleeve came later. I think where the main confusion lies is that both sleeves eventually housed different versions. From Dennis' excellent discography:

"The thing is that the blue stripe cover went through different girations, and three versions exist. First, it was the re-recorded version, and Ceremony's grooves take the whole side. It was withdrawn, and then re-released with the original 3-piece version. Eventually, that was stopped, and the re-recorded version was used again. This time, the grooves span less space. The matrix number also has different values, with A1 and A2 (between the two re-recorded versions). There are also versions of the green cover with the re-recorded version. The only way to tell without playing the record, is to look at the run-off groove notations, as different lyrics are quoted."

So there's only one thing for it, Fotz; you'll have to buy the bundle! Just to be on the safe side.

Have digested it all a bit more now.£120 is a lot more than i thought it'd be.I was thinking it would be in the £70-£80 ball park even with the expected extras like the book.I guess i'll still fork out for it though.The amount of money i've spent on New Order over the years...phew. But i've spent peanuts compared to some.

I've got very brief clips of Hurrah and they've got stuff like "SONG 1" plastered all over them so looking forward to viewing them in full properly.Can't recall completely what i've seen of Celebration.I know i've seen Ceremony and one or two others that were on the Glasgow DVD and maybe others i've seen on YouTube.I did get a bit lost with all your details of that, perspexorange, in your listing of the various takes and which were aired/weren't aired etc. But i can see their point in not putting stuff on that's already been released on the Glasgow DVD (and DVD space to be taken into consideration, though you could argue they could have done a second DVD for the box but that's all a bit too much) .I'm satisfied they're filling up the DVD with stuff like the rest of the previously unaired songs from Riverside and stuff like Norwich 82.Really curious to see the Peppermint Lounge footage and indeed what kind of quality it is.Think i've watched most of the Minneapolis footage on YouTube (that's the First Avenue gig right?) Wonder if any clean up of the footage on the DVD was needed, i expect some of it required work?

I have the Western Works demos but not the Cargo stuff (at least i don't think i have)

Must have been quite a lot of work compiling this thing.Do they have to buy rights, for example, the Riverside BBC stuff? Did they have to pay a big wad to the lady that was keeping the Hurrah footage all to herself?

Movement was never my favourite NO album, not even in top 3.But i've always liked the songs live so the DVD is the main thing swaying it for me.Hopefully the included book will be a treat for the eyes too (as long as there isn't too much rambling by Morely and/or Savage).

NotAMod wrote: Absolutely brilliant to hear.

I can vouch that many have worked diligently (James Z , et al) on this edition, and those that will be forthcoming. The project has been brewing for several years. Getting the Hurrahs and Western Works stuff on there is a small miracle frankly, along with everything else - many many hoops to pass through.

Should be a stunning package - well worth the $$ - and definitive indeed.

Dennis Remmer wrote:

NotAMod wrote: Absolutely brilliant to hear.

I can vouch that many have worked diligently (James Z , et al) on this edition, and those that will be forthcoming. The project has been brewing for several years. Getting the Hurrahs and Western Works stuff on there is a small miracle frankly, along with everything else - many many hoops to pass through.

Should be a stunning package - well worth the $$ - and definitive indeed.

I noticed that the Hurrah’s footage is labelled on every website as “Produced, directed and filmed by Merrill Aldighieri” who, I believe, was the DJ at the club and who previously had the snippets on her YouTube page.

I’m guessing that part of the deal was to include her name on any promotion for the set. Not that I blame her, I guess. I just hope she wasn’t too forceful and held out for a lot of money. This might be part of the reason for the high price tag, I guess (Warners trying to recoup some of their outlay). However, I really have no idea how these sort of things work, so I’m probably wrong.

Either way, I’m just thrilled that we’re getting the stuff. Many thanks to all involved if they read this message.

Oh, and Dennis, it looks like you might have to change your blog name to ‘NewOrderTracks: Ceremony to Homage’.

perspexorange wrote:

New Order – Movement DVD

Live Shows

Hurrah’s, NY 1980

In A Lonely Place Procession Dreams Never End Mesh Truth Cries & Whispers Denial Ceremony

Recorded on 27th September, 1980. Produced, directed and filmed by Merrill Aldighieri

What can I say about this? This is magnificent stuff. Only their fifth NO gig and the band is sans Gillian. Steve singing Procession, Ceremony (verses only, probably, with Hooky doing chorus) & possibly also Cries & Whispers (verses only, with Hooky definitely doing the chorus). That Cries & Whispers chorus only appears on these early live performances. They dropped it for the 12" release.

The clips I've seen of this performance are stunning. Great quality footage of the band in pretty raw form.

The only puzzling thing is 'Denial' being listed. As far as I'm aware, it wasn't played at this gig (I don't think it had been written at this point). Strangely, slicingupeyeballs.com have possibly noticed this and removed it from their report of the track listing.

Denial is definitely NOT on the video, it's an error that crept in on the press sheet and wasn't picked up.

Mr Discography wrote: Initial comments/observations:

• Tracklist for Ceremony 12"s make reference to "Version 1" and "Version 2" of 'Ceremony' but not for 'In A Lonely Place'. There are two, subtly different versions of this B-side on both releases (more synthesised thunder clap effects on the second version). Wonder if this is an oversight, or will one version erroneously appear on both twelve inches?

In A Lonely Place is the proper and correct 'final' mix that always should have been on there, (re-)released for the first time since the 80s.

That other version that appeared on Substance and on some re-cut vinyl singles (and various releases since) was a slightly earlier take used in error, probably due to the original master being mislaid. This master has been found/recovered now.

perspexorange wrote: Cont'd

'RockAmerica' (Ceremony from the 1981 US tour)

This appears to be the CoManCHE footage, which is on there. Looks like you've commented on this video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhW55vb3gbo

£40 or £50 for this would seem expensive, £120 : they're just taking the piss.

OK so its not the sort of thing that is going to sell thousands and thousands of copies to easily recoup their costs but there is no justification for those sort of prices. If they do the same with all of their other albums, you're talking about the best part of a grand to get the complete set. I'll stick to the double CD versions I already have.

Johnny James wrote:

perspexorange wrote: Cont'd

'RockAmerica' (Ceremony from the 1981 US tour)

This appears to be the CoManCHE footage, which is on there. Looks like you've commented on this video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhW55vb3gbo

So I did. I forget my own name sometimes.

So that RockAmerica footage is the same as on ‘A Factory Video’, i.e. the CoManCHE gig?

I’m not by my videos at the moment, so can’t check. Always assumed that the RockAmerica footage was taken during the US tour. Never thought to check to see if it was the same as the Factory Video footage.

Motherwell Ordah wrote: Tracklisting here

https://www.uncut.co.uk/news/new-order-always-future-108692/amp

“It’s always been about the future.” Hilarious. Great tracklisting but for 120 quid...

It's worth £120 for Hurt at Riverside and Paris

Digi Mike wrote: It's worth £120 for Hurt at Riverside and Paris

There's also a Hurt (Instrumental) on Peppermint Lounge, and it segues into Temptation.

Johnny James wrote:

Digi Mike wrote: It's worth £120 for Hurt at Riverside and Paris

There's also a Hurt (Instrumental) on Peppermint Lounge, and it segues into Temptation.

Nice. Can’t bloody wait.

Anyone know if these boxed sets will appear on iTunes, Amazon Music, etc.?

I've pre-ordered the £110 Amazon version (to avoid the shipping costs), and hope the cost will drop or alternative cheaper variants of the set become available (i.e. one without the vinyl and a non-hardback version of the book). However, I'd happily cancel this pre-order if an alternative is to buy just the bonus CD and DVD content as digital files individually on iTunes (as long as they don't make it 'Album Only' where you have to buy the whole lot for a fortune).

I normally always buy physical copies of New Order stuff to get the best possible CD audio quality, but given the huge cost of this set, I'd be willing to compromise for once to save a few quid - plus I only have a small house and am unlikely to have the shelf space to store the eventual complete set of 'Definitive Editions'.

Are we likely to see these available as paid downloads?

Mr Discography wrote: Anyone know if these boxed sets will appear on iTunes, Amazon Music, etc.?

However, I'd happily cancel this pre-order if an alternative is to buy just the bonus CD and DVD content as digital files individually on iTunes (as long as they don't make it 'Album Only' where you have to buy the whole lot for a fortune).

I normally always buy physical copies of New Order stuff to get the best possible CD audio quality, but given the huge cost of this set, I'd be willing to compromise for once to save a few quid - plus I only have a small house and am unlikely to have the shelf space to store the eventual complete set of 'Definitive Editions'.

Are we likely to see these available as paid downloads?

Paid downloads: I hope so. Good point about the physical space issues. I'm not re-buying stuff I already have but would pay for the bonus cd (demos).

Not fussed about the live DVD or book. The excellent 'From Heaven to Heaven' book would be a good companion piece for this. And for £120 I'd want The Beach Club backing tapes, ha. Dick Turpin levels of extortion (if you are willing to pay it).

That’s me short of over 100 quid. Seems it has to be done!

Dennis Remmer wrote:

I can vouch that many have worked diligently (James Z , et al) on this edition,

Is James Z aka JS Zeiter who remixed Singularity? Is this the Forum's very own Johnny James, or am I making masive leaps in an attempt to connect dots here?

Debaser wrote:

Dennis Remmer wrote:

I can vouch that many have worked diligently (James Z , et al) on this edition,

Is James Z aka JS Zeiter who remixed Singularity? Is this the Forum's very own Johnny James, or am I making masive leaps in an attempt to connect dots here?

I had the same thoughts as these last night. Indeed i spoke to DIGI MIKE at length about this. Johnny James has always brought a superb wealth of knowledge to these forums. The new release of MOVEMENT is looking very tempting. £120 is a bit steep and i have not had the collecting bug for years. But i may have to make an effort to buy this. Mike is excited and some cool members have been offering their thoughts on this and very positive vibes all round. SLIGHT MOVEMENT HERE..

Regards ROCKET MICK

Debaser wrote: Is James Z aka JS Zeiter

Yes

perspexorange wrote:

Johnny James wrote:

perspexorange wrote: Cont'd

'RockAmerica' (Ceremony from the 1981 US tour)

This appears to be the CoManCHE footage, which is on there. Looks like you've commented on this video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhW55vb3gbo

So I did. I forget my own name sometimes.

So that RockAmerica footage is the same as on ‘A Factory Video’, i.e. the CoManCHE gig?

I’m not by my videos at the moment, so can’t check. Always assumed that the RockAmerica footage was taken during the US tour. Never thought to check to see if it was the same as the Factory Video footage.

Just checked the footage. You’re right, Johnny; the RockAmerica footage of Ceremony is the same as that on ‘A Factory Video’, i.e. the CoManCHE footage. Never noticed that before. Apologies.

When I twigged this was a proper retread and not just a pipe dream / Londonesque rip-off, I was in two minds - but that price tag clinched it. 120 quid on a glorified take on their least rewarding album, when it'll all be on Youtube sooner or later anyway... The only actual track I ain't already bought and done to deah is RUReady, which is just a pisstake singalong. Pass. If this really is the way forward, fans're gonna have to do some serious accounting.

People moaning about the cost PAH. As a friend just said you'd pay more than £120 to see New Order in the UK after Ticket, Travel, Drinks, Food and a merchandise purchase, plus you'd have to endure WFTSC (mind you that is a good song for a piss break), and what will you have - a ticket stub and memories of Barney's flat voice, with the box set you will have an item to treasure and footage of when they were truly great. it was great seeing the early gigs, now we stare at Gillian on her knitting machine and the music coming of a MAC BOOK Pro - how times have changed

Dennis Remmer wrote:

Debaser wrote: Is James Z aka JS Zeiter

Yes

A-ha! Well, Mr 'Johnny' James Zeiter, what was it like seeing comments about your remix by fellow forumites who didn't know that you were JS Zeiter? Admittedly there weren't that many comments, probably because people were starting to hit remix fatigue by the time Singularity came out.

But I found mine on the Singularity thread, and funnily enough, I'm kinda quoting you at the time:

Debaser wrote:

Johnny James wrote: You can skip through the tracks better here: https://bleep.com/release/70752-new-order-singularity

Ah yes, the previews are twice as long as the amazon ones. Reeder's individuality mix sounds promising, and the Zeiter mixes sound like proper dancefloor material. Looking forward to these.

Debaser wrote:

Dennis Remmer wrote:

Debaser wrote: Is James Z aka JS Zeiter

Yes

A-ha! Well, Mr 'Johnny' James Zeiter, what was it like seeing comments about your remix by fellow forumites who didn't know that you were JS Zeiter? Admittedly there weren't that many comments, probably because people were starting to hit remix fatigue by the time Singularity came out.

But I found mine on the Singularity thread, and funnily enough, I'm kinda quoting you at the time:

Debaser wrote:

Johnny James wrote: You can skip through the tracks better here: https://bleep.com/release/70752-new-order-singularity

Ah yes, the previews are twice as long as the amazon ones. Reeder's individuality mix sounds promising, and the Zeiter mixes sound like proper dancefloor material. Looking forward to these.

Ha ha, I must admit there weren't too many comments as the remix didn't feature in the official streams. Just glad it wasn't all negative.

Record Store Day 2018 in Manchester Vinyl Exchange (18 Oldham Street) “The day acts as a good chance to show off the shop to people who may not usually frequent the business,” said co-owner James Zeiter.

VINYL EXCHANGE LIMITED

perspexorange wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Wonder if 'Temptation (Alternate 7") is the edited 7 inch version from the 'Something Wild' soundtrack or another take?

That was my thinking too.

Wonder if the Procession rehearsal is the same one from bootlegs that have been circulating for a number of years.

Temptation is another version done at the same early 82 Advision session as the released version, not radically different by the way.

Procession is part of a rehearsal that appears to be a run through of the set they were preparing for the Sept 80 tour (so with drum machine).

Baggie Boiler wrote: People moaning about the cost PAH. As a friend just said you'd pay more than £120 to see New Order in the UK after Ticket, Travel, Drinks, Food and a merchandise purchase, plus you'd have to endure WFTSC (mind you that is a good song for a piss break), and what will you have - a ticket stub and memories of Barney's flat voice, with the box set you will have an item to treasure and footage of when they were truly great. it was great seeing the early gigs, now we stare at Gillian on her knitting machine and the music coming of a MAC BOOK Pro - how times have changed

Gigs are crazily expensive. After the tix, travel, accommodation etc you'd pay well over 120 quid... But I'm not paying so much for a tarted-up version of an album that wasn't too hot in the first place. Next year the Spice Girls are back so I have a tight music budget. If this is their '''new''' project, I'm glad I'm no longer a completist. And if you still are, I'd recommend auctioning your house.

digital download at reasonable cost or GTFO (yes bought MC as HD download). don't even have a cd/dvd player in my pc anymore. local musician friends have given me cds and I have to take them into work to rip them - then bin the cds. just say no to wasted plastic.

but also this is just the start. even if they just go to republic thats £750 for stuff to fill up your house.

Currently £90 on Amazon.........

Col72 wrote: Currently £90 on Amazon.........

Yep. Looking much better at that price.

Lock in your ‘guaranteed lowest price’ pre-order now, folks. You can always cancel closer to the time if you decide against it. This way, you get the cheaper price, if it does go up again.

Wouldn’t surprise me if it gets a further cut, down to £80-£85.

Still, can’t wait...

Col72 wrote: Currently £90 on Amazon.........

If you're ordering from outside of the EU, VAT is removed from the total price upon checkout. With shipping to the United States, my Amazon UK order came to just £78.85 ($100). Not counting the hardbound book, that puts each piece of media at $25 which is tolerable for me.

-Mike

Very happy with this re-edition which seems promising, esp. for the unreleased video material.

Yet, there are some minor missed opportunities imo:

• I'd prefer to have the 12" singles inside the Movement boxset, or at least to have them packaged in another box (like Depeche Mode's 12" singles re-editions)
• It would have been nice to have the Procession 7" single re-edited here as well for the sake of completeness (but with which sleeve colour?).

Yep. I’d have been happier if they’d included the 12”s within the set. The DM boxes look great.

To be honest, I’d have preferred that they hadn’t mixed the formats; have one vinyl only set and one CD only set. Would’ve been nice for the CD set (and possibly the vinyl set) to have included an extra CD or two featuring all officially released single versions (7”, 12” etc.) and, maybe, the Peel Session too.

But these are just minor quibbles. That DVD just looks pure gold, and I quite like the look of the demos disc. I’m hoping that the demo version of Cries & Whispers is more like the early version that the band played in those early gigs. Just be nice to hear something a bit different.

That Hurrah’s gig footage is going to be immense (I know, I know - I keep going on about it. I’m just excited!)

perspexorange wrote: ... The DM boxes look great.

I've purchased the first 4 and they do look great indeed. Special mention for the artwork. My only minor regrets are 1) they didn't foresee some additional space to insert the albums. It's good they're not selling the boxes with the albums, as those have been available for quite a long time now and many boxset buyers probably already have them, but they could have put some kind of cardboard placeholder; and 2) I would have loved to see these re-edited vinyl in the same color as the original limited color vinyl editions (when those existed) rather than plain black. Sorry, it's just me being anal

To be honest, I’d have preferred that they hadn’t mixed the formats; have one vinyl only set and one CD only set. Would’ve been nice for the CD set (and possibly the vinyl set) to have included an extra CD or two featuring all officially released single versions (7”, 12” etc.) and, maybe, the Peel Session too. But these are just minor quibbles. That DVD just looks pure gold, and I quite like the look of the demos disc. I’m hoping that the demo version of Cries & Whispers is more like the early version that the band played in those early gigs. Just be nice to hear something a bit different.

That Hurrah’s gig footage is going to be immense (I know, I know - I keep going on about it. I’m just excited!)

Minor quibbles indeed, and I'm excited as well!

Just been having a thought about the book. Here's hoping there's a lot of photos from back in the day.

I'd love to see a photo of 'The Inadequates'. Wonder if anyone ever took one.

Further price dip to £89.39 for the box set on Amazon UK. They also now have a packshot showing the contents of the box.

-Mike

steinomite wrote: Further price dip to £89.39 for the box set on Amazon UK. They also now have a packshot showing the contents of the box.

-Mike

Thanks for the heads up on the pictures.

Looks pretty nice.

Looks like a new white inner sleeve with that anvil logo.Not sure if that was ever previously available.My vinyl copy just has a see through plastic inner which has rounded corners at the bottom and which was always difficult to get back in the outer sleeve without it scrunching up.

I'll be interested to see what the book has in it.DVD will be the highlight for me.

Gave my old copy of Movement a spin the other day.It still has its moments but still feel it could have been so much better with a different production.The live versions from the era were easily superior.Doubts Even Here still great though, probably my favourite from the album.

Ceremony first version with green sleeve will be the only one of the re released singles i'll buy, don't have that one.That's of course if NewOrder store don't mess up and send me the second version.Or the first version but in the second version sleeve.Or the second version but in the first version sleeve.

Fotzepolitic wrote: That's of course if NewOrder store don't mess up and send me the second version.Or the first version but in the second version sleeve.Or the second version but in the first version sleeve.

Talking of 'Ceremony' confusion, I've noticed Apple Music keeps messing up my library on my iPhone with this track. Virtually all instances of the 2nd version of this track, if I try to play them on my iPhone, it plays the 1st version (even though its keeps my labelling, i.e. it plays the 1st version but calls to 2nd version). It messes up on 'Substance', 'International', the 'Recycle' remaster and another compilation that I have.

It's fine on my Mac iTunes library, as I have hard copies of the songs stored on there. It's only a problem when I try to stream my library, via Apple Music, on my iPhone. The solution would be to sync the hard copies to my device, but who can be arsed with doing that these days? (I haven't synced my iPhone in about three years).

It all adds to the confusion. In my opinion, the two versions are fairly difficult to tell the differences anyway, unless you have the two to listen to together. I can only imagine how confusing it must be for new fans, when Apple Music confuse the two.

Edit - just noticed that the 2nd version plays correctly on the 'Movement' Deluxe Edition. I'll copy that one to my playlists.

perspexorange wrote:

Talking of 'Ceremony' confusion, I've noticed Apple Music keeps messing up my library on my iPhone with this track. Virtually all instances of the 2nd version of this track, if I try to play them on my iPhone, it plays the 1st version (even though its keeps my labelling, i.e. it plays the 1st version but calls to 2nd version). It messes up on 'Substance', 'International', the 'Recycle' remaster and another compilation that I have.

It's fine on my Mac iTunes library, as I have hard copies of the songs stored on there. It's only a problem when I try to stream my library, via Apple Music, on my iPhone. The solution would be to sync the hard copies to my device, but who can be arsed with doing that these days? (I haven't synced my iPhone in about three years).

It all adds to the confusion. In my opinion, the two versions are fairly difficult to tell the differences anyway, unless you have the two to listen to together. I can only imagine how confusing it must be

Eh? You’re joking. IMHO there’s a massive difference between the two. Basically the same structure yes but there’s a massive difference between them in sound, feel and vibe. This argument is as old as time though. The first version is grand, has a real thump to the bass drum and drums, is energetic and is really alive. The second version I always found very flat and lifeless,Bernard’s vocals just don’t have that incredible mixture of vulnerable yet commanding tone that he nailed on the first version. The guitars sear and chime magically.Interestingly though I seem to recall from old threads on the old forum debating the two’s differences that most people seem to prefer the lifeless second version. So I’ve always felt in a minority that easily prefers the first version.

I suppose what I am saying is, I can hear the differences and could certainly tell which one was which if I was to have them both played blind to me, one after the other.

However, if the track comes up on random on my iPhone / radio etc., I sometimes struggle to say with any certainty which version is playing. In fact it's one of those things that I do when the track comes on - 'guess which version it is without looking'. 7 out of 10 times, I get it right. 3 out of 10 times, I get annoyed with myself for not recognising it and feel like a bloody New Order amateur.

Of course, the problem with Apple Music mixing up the two versions hasn't helped. It's probably contributed to my confusion somewhat, with me saying 'oh yes, this is definitely the first version', checking my iPhone and seeing the '2nd version' label (even though it is the 1st version!) and then doubting myself.

There's only one thing for it - I need to listen to both of them again, multiple times. No hardship!

perspexorange wrote: I suppose what I am saying is, I can hear the differences and could certainly tell which one was which if I was to have them both played blind to me, one after the other.

However, if the track comes up on random on my iPhone / radio etc., I sometimes struggle to say with any certainty which version is playing. In fact it's one of those things that I do when the track comes on - 'guess which version it is without looking'. 7 out of 10 times, I get it right. 3 out of 10 times, I get annoyed with myself for not recognising it and feel like a bloody New Order amateur.

Of course, the problem with Apple Music mixing up the two versions hasn't helped. It's probably contributed to my confusion somewhat, with me saying 'oh yes, this is definitely the first version', checking my iPhone and seeing the '2nd version' label (even though it is the 1st version!) and then doubting myself.

There's only one thing for it - I need to listen to both of them again, multiple times. No hardship!

Ah ok I can see your point.

The first version has always been so imprinted in my memory because that’s all I’d ever known for many years. I bought the 7” with the gold sleeve when I first starting buying New Order stuff in 1983/84. It wasn’t until I bought Substance in 1987 that I heard the second version. I’d never got round to buying the cream sleeve with the second version so the Substance was the first time I ever heard it. Always wished they’d have put the first version on Substance instead. But again , i recall from old forum discussions that I was in a small minority that felt that way. People eh? I think the reasoning behind putting the second version on Substance was that it included Gillian and so represented the whole band as the rest of the album did.

Yeah, that was my understanding too.

I have a couple of 'Substance' playlists ('A-Sides' and 'B-Sides') that restores the original 'Ceremony' back to its rightful place.

I've always wanted the band to release a modified version of 'Substance' that really reflects the bands 12" history, without the liberties previously taken back in 1987.

The changes I would make:

1. Replace the 2nd version of 'Ceremony' with the original;
2. Include 'Procession' as an 'A-Side' alongside 'EGG';
3. Replace the '87 version of 'Temptation' and 'Confusion' with the original 12" versions;
4. Include 'Murder' as an 'A-Side';
5. Replace the edits of 'Hurt', 'The Perfect Kiss', 'Sub-Culture' and 'Shellshock' with the unedited 12" versions;
6. Add the missing 'b-side' omitted from the CD version (Mesh);
7. Add the missing b-side remixes omitted from the CD version ('The Perfect Pit', 'Dub-Vulture', 'Shellcock', 'Bizarre Dub Triangle')
8. Add the post '87 Factory-era singles (Touched... 12", Blue Monday '88 12", Fine Time 12", Round & Round 12", Run 2 12" and World In Motion 12")
9. Add the post '87 Factory-era 12" b-sides (Touched...Dub 12", Beach Buggy 12", Don't Do It, Best & Marsh 12", & M T O)

Perhaps, as 'bonus tracks', they could add:

a) the re-recorded 'Ceremony'; b) the three '87 versions ('Temptation', 'Confusion' and 'Confusion Dub '87') c) Finally, maybe include a selection of the 12"R tracks (such as 'True Faith' 12"R, ' 'True Dub', 'Paradise' (Robert Racic Mix), 'Fine Time' (Silk Mix, Messed Around Mix', Fine Line), 'Round & Round (12" Mix, Club Mix, Detroit Mix) & 'World In Motion' (Subbuteo Mix, Subbuteo Dub, Carabinieri Mix, No Alla Violenza Mix).

It's a pipe dream, but I'd love to see something like that. Who knows, maybe they'll release an expanded set as part of the (hopefully ongoing) 're-release project'.

It'd be great if 'Substance' gets a re-release as part of these deluxe editions as it's such an iconic compilation.

Only change I'd want to a re-released 'Substance' is to restore the full length 'Perfect Kiss' on the CD version (the unedited 12" appeared on the vinyl version after all). I'd be happy to keep the other tracks the same as the original 1987 release ('Subculture' and 'Shellshock' in their full length 12" versions would drag on a bit, so stick to the cropped versions of those please).

It's my favourite album and was my introduction to New Order. To tweak it it any more would move it further away from what it represented to me back then, so keep the second 'Ceremony' and re-recorded 'Temptation' and 'Confusion'.

Perhaps a re-released version could stretch the B-sides and dubs out over 2 CDs though - to include everything on the original cassette 2, 'Murder' and maybe a few other rarities or bonus tracks. Any DVD could include one of the live sets from the time when they played 'Substance' in order, if any recordings exist (think one of these was at Wembley Arena).

Mr Discography wrote: It'd be great if 'Substance' gets a re-release as part of these deluxe editions as it's such an iconic compilation.

Only change I'd want to a re-released 'Substance' is to restore the full length 'Perfect Kiss' on the CD version (the unedited 12" appeared on the vinyl version after all). I'd be happy to keep the other tracks the same as the original 1987 release ('Subculture' and 'Shellshock' in their full length 12" versions would drag on a bit, so stick to the cropped versions of those please).

It's my favourite album and was my introduction to New Order. To tweak it it any more would move it further away from what it represented to me back then, so keep the second 'Ceremony' and re-recorded 'Temptation' and 'Confusion'.

Perhaps a re-released version could stretch the B-sides and dubs out over 2 CDs though - to include everything on the original cassette 2, 'Murder' and maybe a few other rarities or bonus tracks. Any DVD could include one of the live sets from the time when they played 'Substance' in order, if any recordings exist (think one of these was at Wembley Arena).

I can certainly see your point about keeping the edits of Sub-Culture and Shellshock. The latter goes on alarmingly and repeats the 'it's never enough' refrain (seemingly) ad infinitum. That being said, I don't mind either 'full length' track and I'd rather they were on there for consistency.

Presumably, even though they do 'go on a bit', the reason for the edits was to fit on two discs. The intention was, as stated by Wilson, to have all of the band's 12"s in one place. I guess they just chose those two (plus, to a lesser extent, Hurt and The Perfect Kiss) as being ones that would easily accommodate cuts without harming them (probably even enhancing them too!).

The one thing that I don't like about the 'Shellshock' Substance edit was that it excised one of the verses. In fact, for the first few years of my fandom, I had no idea about this 'other' verse. I didn't own the 12" and the verse wasn't on the 7", the video version or Substance (all of which I knew pretty well). Back in the day, I had no idea that certain tracks were edited on Substance; I always assumed that all 12"s were intact on that LP. I therefore never hunted down the 12"s at the time (apart from Temptation and Confusion, which I knew had been re-recorded).

It wasn't until I bought the Pretty In Pink soundtrack a few years later that I heard the extra verse, which came as a rather nice shock. To this day, that version is the definitive mix for me; being a nice balance between song and mix, with all lyrics intact and subdued use of the aforementioned 'refrain'.

I don't think I heard the full 12" until the Recycle project, although I could be wrong.

small note,

I wonder if the re-issue of the temptation 12" will have an embossed cover like the original.

later -1

Well you can't possibly please everyone. TODAY IN MUSIC HISTORY 13 years, 4 months and a bit ago, New Order don't release a compilation.

Have pre-ordered the box from Amazon,£89.34.Also pre-ordered the Ceremony first version re-issue vinyl,£10.22.

Also pre-ordered Steve's Record Play Pause book, £15.99 ( i see the release has been put back to May though),

Some posting and packing costs which i can't recall how much right now but a help that the money won't won't be taken from my account til the items are sent and seeing as one will be in March (Ceremony vinyl), one in April (Movement box) and one in May (Steve book) the outgoings will be staggered.

[TWITTER]1089832877670453248[/TWITTER]

EDIT: To save you jumping through hoops, just play this:

Yeah - just noticed this appearing in my YouTube feed. Nice to see the official channel releasing stuff like this.

Wonderful footage. Hope they post more.

I remember first seeing that clip sometime in late 80s when I recieved a VHS full of NO stuff through a mail order ad in NME and I actually put my hand over my eyes when that bloody bright stage light in the clip appeared , doh. Ha ha

It's a great clip!

Shame that we've seen it before though ('A Factory Video', RockAmerica etc.). It would've made more sense to tease the fans a little more by posting one of the vids from the box set that we've not seen.

In fact, apart from that clip and the two broadcast on Riverside, all the other videos from the box set are previously unseen, I think (as that version of Denial from the the Celebration set is possibly an alternate, unbroadcast take).

So why not post one of them to whet the appetite? Hopefully, this will happen at a later date.

I’ve now pre-ordered. Just shy of £90 on Amazon. I have all of the 12”s so no need for them. I do feel I’ve been bent over though!

To save you jumping through hoops

Thanks, the NME website is an utter mess.

Video of Truth live at Hacienda 1983 has been released today. Can’t post embed or link as am posting from phone so a bit fiddly.

Fotzepolitic wrote: Video of Truth live at Hacienda 1983 has been released today. Can’t post embed or link as am posting from phone so a bit fiddly.

Here you go

Pretty good stuff.

These clips are certainly getting me (even more) excited for the box set.

This is in April edition of Uncut.Turned out the Kindle subscription one month free trial i took for the Feb edition with the New Order article was still ongoing for free, somehow.So i found i had the March and April editions on the Kindle app.There was however a £2.49 debit pending for the April edition.Contacted Amazon who i'd took the subscription through and informed them i'd cancelled my subscription at the end of the one month free trial.They've withdrawn the pending £2.49 but i still ended up with the April edition for free.Or something.

Nice poster but somehow, it doesn't feel like Saville's work. Does anyone know if he's involved in the reissue project (beyond doing the initial sleeves)? So typography, design of box / book etc?

Damn, this whole reissuing of 12"s is problematic for me. I don't have a turntable anymore, but I'm still sorely tempted. I just keep thinking how nice it would be to have all 12" singles lined up alongside the boxed deluxe LPs.

I don't think I'd be bothered with getting them that much if they were just releasing a CD / DVD only box of the LP. I'd probably get that instead. It's just that currently I feel 'I'm getting some vinyl anyway, may as well get it all'.

Another thing that would steer me away from the 12"s would be if they said that they were releasing CD single boxsets. I'd be all over of them instead, especially if they were choc full of all the released versions (a la Recycle project).

What's the difrference between 80s vinyl and today's vinyl? 50 quid.

No, the difference is 100g. Vinyle business is annoyning for years, now.

Jcp7 wrote: No, the difference is 100g. Vinyle business is annoyning for years, now.

Where do I sign to stop the PULP thing being released ?

Let me know and I will get others to prevent it

Music has always been an expensive hobby. I rmember circa The Pet Shop Boys' 'Behaviour', LPs suddenly went from five to ten quid.

Question regarding the 12" singles:

These have also been remastered, but only available on vinyl. Are the remastered versions of these tracks not available on any other format from another release?

afr0puff wrote: Question regarding the 12" singles:

These have also been remastered, but only available on vinyl. Are the remastered versions of these tracks not available on any other format from another release?

Mostly not on any other release, though some tracks come from the same transfers that were used on the 'Singles' reconstruction (like the original 'Ceremony').

Any idea whether the singles will come with download codes? I’m quite tempted to buy them.

Johnny James wrote:

afr0puff wrote: Question regarding the 12" singles:

These have also been remastered, but only available on vinyl. Are the remastered versions of these tracks not available on any other format from another release?

Mostly not on any other release, though some tracks come from the same transfers that were used on the 'Singles' reconstruction (like the original 'Ceremony').

Thanks for the info. Bummer though, was really hoping to get Temptation 12" remastered on an accessible format.

Yay! Ceremony first version re issue vinyl arrived today.A day earlier than expected.They sent the correct sleeve and correct version which was a relief.Sounds great.The inner sleeve is rather nice too, lovely white card rather than just a paper sleeve and at has the Factory anvil logo at the bottom on both sides.Not sure the original release had an inner sleeve like that.All in a great result.No download code though, for those that may have been wondering.

Nice.

I'm still debating getting them to compliment my 'Movement' Definitive Edition.

Talking of which, here's today's clip:

Wish it was a bit longer, but there you go.

I wonder if there was any talk of putting a documentary on the making of the LP on the DVD of the reissue. Seems a bit of a wasted opportunity to talk to all four of them, just for 3-4 two minute clips.

Just seen this on one of the New Order Facebook groups:

“Mary Ann Hobbs on BBC 6music just said she's got an exclusive unreleased New Order track to play on her show tomorrow.
My guess is something off the new Movement box set.”

I’m guessing it’s ‘Homage’ from the Western Works demos. It could be ‘Are You Ready For This?’, I guess, but this seems a bit unlikely given the almost throwaway nature of that track.

Latest 'Transmissions':

perspexorange wrote: Just seen this on one of the New Order Facebook groups:

“Mary Ann Hobbs on BBC 6music just said she's got an exclusive unreleased New Order track to play on her show tomorrow.
My guess is something off the new Movement box set.”

I’m guessing it’s ‘Homage’ from the Western Works demos. It could be ‘Are You Ready For This?’, I guess, but this seems a bit unlikely given the almost throwaway nature of that track.

Happened by chance to catch this when i was at work today.She played Ceremony from the Western Works Demos.Felt like i'd never heard it before but maybe i've only ever played the file i have of it once a long time ago.Is it Steve singing on this? Or even sounds like Steve and Hooky alternating vocals in places.

Ah. Right. So not so much an 'unreleased 'track'. More an 'unreleased' version'. Ta.

Yep. I think it's Steve singing the verse, Hooky singing the first chorus, either Steve or Barney singing the second chorus and Steve singing the 'watching love grow' refrain. I could be wrong though.

With those 1980 gigs, I think Steve always sung the verse for Ceremony, with Hooky doing the chorus. Much like Cries and Whispers, which contained a chorus back in the day, I think. Steve on verses, Hooky on chorus. When we finally get to see the full Hurrah's footage, we should get to see them alternating on both tracks (I really can't wait to see this footage).

C&W was a bit different back in the day. I will be interested to hear if the demo of this track on the box set is in line with the early version, or closer to the released version.

Fotzepolitic wrote:

perspexorange wrote: Just seen this on one of the New Order Facebook groups:

“Mary Ann Hobbs on BBC 6music just said she's got an exclusive unreleased New Order track to play on her show tomorrow.
My guess is something off the new Movement box set.”

I’m guessing it’s ‘Homage’ from the Western Works demos. It could be ‘Are You Ready For This?’, I guess, but this seems a bit unlikely given the almost throwaway nature of that track.

Happened by chance to catch this when i was at work today.She played Ceremony from the Western Works Demos.Felt like i'd never heard it before but maybe i've only ever played the file i have of it once a long time ago.Is it Steve singing on this? Or even sounds like Steve and Hooky alternating vocals in places.

Thanks for the heads up on this! Re-listen to the show here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00036vl

1:18:20 mark

perspexorange wrote:

C&W was a bit different back in the day. I will be interested to hear if the demo of this track on the box set is in line with the early version, or closer to the released version.

It's a weird hybrid version. Bernard singing the early lyrics that Hooky did live.

Sounds great! Can't wait to hear it.

Thanks Johnny!

PS So is it Bernard doing the 'chorus' and Steve doing the verses? Or is it Bernard singing throughout?

perspexorange wrote: Sounds great! Can't wait to hear it.

Thanks Johnny!

PS So is it Bernard doing the 'chorus' and Steve doing the verses? Or is it Bernard singing throughout?

Bernard throughout.

Ta!

Three more weeks to go.

awesome picture:

later -1

Yeah. Great Stuff!

Presumably this is one of the signed copies you can win. Man, I’d love that.

I went ahead and bought the first three 12”s yesterday. I don’t even have a turntable anymore. I must be mad. I saw them in my local HMV and they just looked too nice to leave on the shelf. Thought I might have buyer’s remorse when I got them home. But no - they are rather lovely and will be getting Temptation and any others that get released.

I’m still hoping they release a set of CD single box sets, which contain all released mixes etc.

That's quite funny, po, I was in Rough Trade East on Saturday and picked up a copy of Ceremony (£12) and seriously thought about buying it too. I also do not have a turntable (anymore). Lovely hardcore sleeve, maybe even better (sturdier) than the original, as I recall it.

Lucky you to have an hmv nearby, for browsing.

Benj65 wrote: That's quite funny, po, I was in Rough Trade East on Saturday and picked up a copy of Ceremony (£12) and seriously thought about buying it too. I also do not have a turntable (anymore). Lovely hardcore sleeve, maybe even better (sturdier) than the original, as I recall it.

Lucky you to have an hmv nearby, for browsing.

Glad I’m not alone in having no willpower (or turntable). 😊

I managed to resist the previous week, when there were just the two Ceremony reissues, but couldn’t handle seeing all three of them there this week, all pristine and beautiful.

Someone was posting on one of the Facebook groups yesterday that the EGG sleeve and labels have changed.

They’ve changed the track-listing order to presumably correct the Mesh / Cries and Whispers error.

But they’ve also changed the orientation of the front design. The line now starts in the top left and descends to the bottom right corner. Previously, it started in the bottom left corner and ascended to the top right corner.

Deliberate or another balls-up?

I’m going with the latter.

Annoying but I’m not too p’d off. It’s still rather nice.

perspexorange wrote:

Someone was posting on one of the Facebook groups yesterday that the EGG sleeve and labels have changed.

They’ve changed the track-listing order to presumably correct the Mesh / Cries and Whispers error.

But they’ve also changed the orientation of the front design. The line now starts in the top left and descends to the bottom right corner. Previously, it started in the bottom left corner and ascended to the top right corner.

Deliberate or another balls-up?

I’m going with the latter.

Annoying but I’m not too p’d off. It’s still rather nice.

Oh you’re right. Just looked at images online and the diagonal is indeed different to the original and the Mesh and Cries And Wispers track list is corrected. Possibly a balls up with the diagonal or a clever ploy so people like me will buy it? Tempted now. I’m assuming the inner sleeve is also now like the Ceremony re issue with the more robust white card with the anvil logo at the bottom on both sides rather than plain paper sleeve. I’m just glad they didn’t balls up the Ceremony versions and sleeves.

Fotzepolitic wrote: I’m assuming the inner sleeve is also now like the Ceremony re issue with the more robust white card with the anvil logo at the bottom on both sides rather than plain paper sleeve.

It is. Looks and sounds great. I did notice that the orientation of the front image is mirrored, and I assume that's an error, but all in all that's not so bad. It's cool to see the text for the titles on the back of the sleeve changed to mirror the actual running order.

Played each one multiple times over the weekend. Putting them on the turntable gave me the same rush as when I first bought each one. It's really great to hear the original In A Lonely Place, and not the alternate version that surfaced on Substance (thunderclaps and effects in different places).

Because they're not including the 12" versions in the definitive edition of Movement - and I assume the other album editions will follow suit - I'm hoping this means we get a definitive Substance down the line!

50 Pound Note wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: I’m assuming the inner sleeve is also now like the Ceremony re issue with the more robust white card with the anvil logo at the bottom on both sides rather than plain paper sleeve.

Played each one multiple times over the weekend. Putting them on the turntable gave me the same rush as when I first bought each one. It's really great to hear the original In A Lonely Place, and not the alternate version that surfaced on Substance (thunderclaps and effects in different places).

How does this remastering sound compared to your own?

afr0puff wrote: How does this remastering sound compared to your own?

To be fair I didn't do the remastering, that was Bruce Bartlett and Drew Crumbaugh. But Drew did a nice A/B comparison, and his opinion is that they sound terrific. :)

Hard to believe Recycle was 10 years ago this September!

50 Pound Note wrote: Hard to believe Recycle was 10 years ago this September!

Yes, hard to believe how well this has been done. 👍 As well as it is hard to believe that my verson of Run 2 clocks 11 years this September. Time flies...

cheers, |cv|.

Cargo demo of Truth was played on Gideon Coe show on 6Music tonight. Pretty good. Kind of more guitar towards the end.

Fotzepolitic wrote: I’m just glad they didn’t balls up the Ceremony versions and sleeves.

They did balls up the cream/blue sleeve - see my last post in the Ceremony thread

The inner box is not grey and the square/stripe/font is way bigger than on the original.

Plus the little "League" red diamond on the back cover lower right corner is also missing

Latest 'Transmission':

I still can't get over how short these are.

It's really annoying. Why get all four of them bussed into a studio, miked up etc. for 2 minutes a piece? It seems a real waste.

Why couldn't they make 60 minute documentary about the making of the LP and either include it in the box set or serialise it on YouTube (like they're doing with these very short pieces), in larger 15 minute chunks etc?

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: I’m just glad they didn’t balls up the Ceremony versions and sleeves.

They did balls up the cream/blue sleeve - see my last post in the Ceremony thread

The inner box is not grey and the square/stripe/font is way bigger than on the original.

Plus the little "League" red diamond on the back cover lower right corner is also missing

Yes I saw your earlier post. Didn’t know they’d ballsed up the cream & blue sleeve as I haven’t bought that. I meant I was relieved I got the first version in the correct green sleeve.

i don't know. i think i can barely take 2 minutes of hooky.

the rest are fine.

there are tons of interviews with the others on youtube in the last few years.

later -1

negative1 wrote: there are tons of interviews with the others on youtube in the last few years

True, but the band rarely take the time to talk about this particular LP. Indeed, they seem to have pretty much forgotten the LP, with the band not performing any tracks of it live for over 30 years (35 years if you discount Dreams Never End). To be fair to Hooky, he’s given it a lot of love (and rightly so; it’s a good LP).

Would’ve been nice to hear more about the recording of this LP.

It just seems mad to go to the trouble of recording everyone and we don’t even get 10 minutes of footage.

I reckon Hooky was probably interviewed for an hour or two, but after stripping out all the back-biting and liberal use of the word ‘Twat’, they only had a couple of minutes of footage.

Picked up the Temptation 12", so I now have all four. Good reproduction on the artwork, slightly lighter than the original. The embossing is nice, but the font is bigger and the positioning is moved to the center of the white border, instead of closer to the bottom edge of the painting. Sounds just as good as the others.

Now then! I’m one of the, erm........ old boys! You know, .............. the ‘in there from the start’ division. The ‘been there, seen that, felt it more than you division! 🤣😂🤣😂 ........ Yeah, ................ right then!!!!! God bless the precious ones........eh?? 🤣

These 1919 remasters sound just dreadful!!!!

Please hunt down decent, clean, hardly played copies of the original pressings! Do not fall for this remaster bull. They are simply not favourably comparable! The originals will blow your balls / tits off with their raw top end..

..... and REMEMBER! .........

........ New Order

......... Just a band!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

..... just sayin! 🎃

... erm, (where did my smokin’ man go?)

.... and if you’ve been affected by any of the issues raised in any of the above posts please call:

07791 083 don’t give a fuck, don’t give a fuck. 😉

Live.....

Learn!

Original = BETTER! 😉

50poundnote wrote: Picked up the Temptation 12", so I now have all four. Good reproduction on the artwork, slightly lighter than the original. The embossing is nice, but the font is bigger and the positioning is moved to the center of the white border, instead of closer to the bottom edge of the painting. Sounds just as good as the others.

I picked one up yesterday too. Very nice indeed.

I noticed someone mentioned on FB that there were slight differences on the cover of this release too. I don't actually own the original 12" (only have the 7") so had nothing to compare it to.

I wonder if any of these variances are deliberate or just the standard 'f**k ups' that we've come to rely on with NO releases.

Either way, the differences don't bother me. After all, we are getting rather nice inner sleeves which weren't on the original releases.

muffy wrote: .... and REMEMBER! .........

........ New Order

......... Just a band!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

..... just sayin! 🎃

.... and if you’ve been affected by any of the issues raised in any of the above posts please call:

07791 083 don’t give a fuck, don’t give a fuck. 😉

Thanks - I'll completely change my opinion of the band from now on.

It's an internet forum about a specific band. You're quite likely to get fairly involved posts about the band here. 😉 Were you expecting casual, disinterested discussion here?

perspexorange wrote: I wonder if any of these variances are deliberate or just the standard 'f**k ups' that we've come to rely on with NO releases.

We're talking about singles that are nearly 40 years old. If the original artwork prepped for printing still exists, it's likely in poor shape. I think they've done the best they can to replicate the feel of the original artwork, while bringing it forward. For example, the original green sleeve Ceremony has a border closer to the edge of the sleeve, while the cream sleeve has it closer to the center. The two new versions have identical proportions, so sitting side by side they look balanced. Maybe the original EGG was meant to have the front image turned 90 degrees, and it was printed wrong *then*, and since they've fixed the song titles on the back, they've also corrected the front.

I've got the originals, so I really don't mind the changes - they look, feel - and most importantly SOUND - terrific. :)

While we're gotten repackaged singles boxes (CD, 7", 12") from The Smiths and Depeche Mode, no band so closely associated with 12" singles has reissued them individually in their original format. I love that New Order is doing this.

50poundnote wrote:

perspexorange wrote: I wonder if any of these variances are deliberate or just the standard 'f**k ups' that we've come to rely on with NO releases.

We're talking about singles that are nearly 40 years old. If the original artwork prepped for printing still exists, it's likely in poor shape. I think they've done the best they can to replicate the feel of the original artwork, while bringing it forward. For example, the original green sleeve Ceremony has a border closer to the edge of the sleeve, while the cream sleeve has it closer to the center. The two new versions have identical proportions, so sitting side by side they look balanced. Maybe the original EGG was meant to have the front image turned 90 degrees, and it was printed wrong *then*, and since they've fixed the song titles on the back, they've also corrected the front.

I've got the originals, so I really don't mind the changes - they looks, feel - and most importantly SOUND - terrific. :)

While we're gotten repackaged singles boxes (CD, 7", 12") from The Smiths and Depeche Mode, no band so closely associated with 12" singles has reissued them individually in their original format. I love that New Order is doing this.

Great post! I couldn’t agree more.

I think I’ve said before that I wasn’t fussed about vinyl anymore. However, this re-release project has really renewed my interest. I currently don’t have a turntable but am seriously considering getting another. Even if I don’t, these damn things are lovely to look at and i don’t regret buying them.

I’m really looking forward to the PC&L era quartet. All of which have some of my favourite Saville sleeves.

I wonder what they’ll do with Sub-Culture when it gets to the Low Life era. Although I know the common theory is that Saville hated the mix so didn’t provide a cover. What seems more likely to me is that Saville was just late. Again.

It would therefore be great if there was an ‘undiscovered’ cover that they could resurrect for that release. Alternatively, perhaps they could commission Saville to design a new one in a style complementary of the era.

Also, I wonder what will happen when we get to the era of the 12”Rs (True Faith, Fine Time, Round & Round and World In Motion). I wonder if we’ll get reissues of those.

perspexorange wrote:

I think I’ve said before that I wasn’t fussed about vinyl anymore. However, this re-release project has really renewed my interest. I currently don’t have a turntable but am seriously considering getting another. Even if I don’t, these damn things are lovely to look at and i don’t regret buying them.

I’m really looking forward to the PC&L era quartet. All of which have some of my favourite Saville sleeves.

I wonder what they’ll do with Sub-Culture when it gets to the Low Life era. Although I know the common theory is that Saville hated the mix so didn’t provide a cover. What seems more likely to me is that Saville was just late. Again.

It would therefore be great if there was an ‘undiscovered’ cover that they could resurrect for that release. Alternatively, perhaps they could commission Saville to design a new one in a style complementary of the era.

Also, I wonder what will happen when we get to the era of the 12”Rs (True Faith, Fine Time, Round & Round and World In Motion). I wonder if we’ll get reissues of those.

it would be nice if they keep going.

but i think its too soon to start looking so far ahead.

we'll be lucky if they last until power corruption and lies.

anything after that will be a bonus.

later -1

perspexorange wrote:

I think I’ve said before that I wasn’t fussed about vinyl anymore. However, this re-release project has really renewed my interest. I currently don’t have a turntable but am seriously considering getting another. Even if I don’t, these damn things are lovely to look at and i don’t regret buying them.

I’m really looking forward to the PC&L era quartet. All of which have some of my favourite Saville sleeves.

I wonder what they’ll do with Sub-Culture when it gets to the Low Life era. Although I know the common theory is that Saville hated the mix so didn’t provide a cover. What seems more likely to me is that Saville was just late. Again.

It would therefore be great if there was an ‘undiscovered’ cover that they could resurrect for that release. Alternatively, perhaps they could commission Saville to design a new one in a style complementary of the era.

Also, I wonder what will happen when we get to the era of the 12”Rs (True Faith, Fine Time, Round & Round and World In Motion). I wonder if we’ll get reissues of those.

Get yourself a turntable man! Depends what you want to pay but Pro-Ject do some great ones from anything between £200 right up to the £1000 to £2000 mark and beyond.I bought a Pro-Ject Essential 2 turntable a few years ago.It was £200 so one of the company's cheapest but it has a lovely, rich sound.The changing speed between 33rpm and 45rpm can take a while to get the hang of as there's no button, you have to physically change the belt (with a small supplied key) from the smaller cog to bigger cog and vice versa but you get the hang of it.You'll need a Pre Amp also (pick one up for around £20) and obviously a stereo system with auxiliary setting option and jack sockets on the rear.

I'll be interested to see when the P,C & L box comes around (if it does) if they tweak any of the 12" single sleeves from that era.Will BM still have the die cut sleeve? Will the likes of Thieves Like Us and Confusion have classier inner sleeves than the originals? I'm thinking too far ahead, i'll just enjoy the Movement box for now.

Yep - you’re both right. I’m getting a bit ahead of myself. Just wishful thinking. I’m just glad we’ve got Movement and the related singles. It’s hard not to look ahead to PC&L though, with it being my (marginally) second favourite LP behind Technique.

Cheers for suggestions on turntables. I’ll look into it. Need to get the idea approved, rubber-stamped and signed in triplicate by my wife first. I’ve been sneaking the 12”s into the house under the radar for the last week as it is.

NotAMod wrote: I would imagine the prospect of the other albums receiving 'The Definitive Edition' treatment will be based on the sales of the Movement set. If nobody buys it or it's a flop then why they pour money into more? Seems logical.

Personally speaking, I am quite pleased with what I have seen and heard so far compared with the last decades' efforts which were piss-poor thanks to Warners. My only negatives would be; yes, the twelve inch reissues and box-set itself are a tad pricey and no download codes with the singles is baffling for a conglomerate of Warners' status; they can clearly afford the server space and it is 2019. That said, no-one is forcing anyone to buy these.

However like Joy Division fans getting pissed off with New Order emerging in 1980s the 'I already own all the Factory originals' brigade (of which I am a fully paid up member) whinging arbitrarily probably means they are doing something right. I have seen it elsewhere on social media; this bizarre 'circling wagons' mentality over something supposedly they love so much being outrageously reissued 3 decades later (the cheek). Most of what I have read is just showing off, the usual "I was here first... so you can fuck off"... how terribly hip and above it all.

The majority of regular fans have been neglected via a surplus of Best Ofs for years with all the common tracks and now they're finally reissuing the good stuff... it's a cause for Celebration (no pun).

It can only be good for the band if their back catalogue finally gets the suitable treatment it deserves.

Yep I agree, the logical thing will be to see how well the Movement box sells before entertaining the idea of any more. I’m curious to see how well the box does.Though you could argue a box of later, more popular albums like say Technique would might sell more.Movement might not sell well, we’ll have to wait and see, but a Technique box might fare better. Impossible to say. But obviously the place to start is chronologicaly at the start, the first album.

Fotzepolitic wrote:

Though you could argue a box of later, more popular albums like say Technique would might sell more.Movement might not sell well,

I had this thought too. Movement is my least favourite of the Factory albums. Although it probably has the best extras. It's good that previously unreleased stuff will come out (e.g. Hurrahs). Once it's out there, it's out there. But I haven't rushed to put in my pre-order.

Perhaps slightly off topic, but watching Hook & The Light play Movement live at London's Koko is the most I've enjoyed this album. Somehow the live performance added some, eh...life to the thing. I wonder if he'll consider doing it again if the box set is a success (*waiting for cynical comments to follow*).

50poundnote wrote:

perspexorange wrote: I wonder if any of these variances are deliberate or just the standard 'f**k ups' that we've come to rely on with NO releases.

We're talking about singles that are nearly 40 years old. If the original artwork prepped for printing still exists, it's likely in poor shape. I think they've done the best they can to replicate the feel of the original artwork, while bringing it forward. For example, the original green sleeve Ceremony has a border closer to the edge of the sleeve, while the cream sleeve has it closer to the center. The two new versions have identical proportions, so sitting side by side they look balanced. Maybe the original EGG was meant to have the front image turned 90 degrees, and it was printed wrong *then*, and since they've fixed the song titles on the back, they've also corrected the front.

I've got the originals, so I really don't mind the changes - they look, feel - and most importantly SOUND - terrific. :)

That's a fair point - they DO sound brilliant. I was genuinely surprised at the lack of surface noise and the clarity of the pressing. Quite often these "new" reissues look great but don't appear to have had any quality control on the pressing.

I'm by no means a completist but I have gathered most of the Factory era 12"s over the years, and it's been a minefield of people mis-grading stuff. To be able to get brand new guaranteed quality replicas for £10 each is a very good option for anyone who isn't anal about having originals

And yeah, it's kind of funny that they've not *quite* got the artwork right on any of them yet - it's a classic New Order touch.

So yeah - we should at least be thankful that (so far) they haven't got any of the audio wrong. But part of me will be astonished if the Movement deluxe box doesn't have at least one cock-up on it!

Fotzepolitic wrote:

NotAMod wrote: I would imagine the prospect of the other albums receiving 'The Definitive Edition' treatment will be based on the sales of the Movement set. If nobody buys it or it's a flop then why they pour money into more? Seems logical.

Yep I agree, the logical thing will be to see how well the Movement box sells before entertaining the idea of any more. I’m curious to see how well the box does.Though you could argue a box of later, more popular albums like say Technique would might sell more.Movement might not sell well, we’ll have to wait and see, but a Technique box might fare better. Impossible to say. But obviously the place to start is chronologicaly at the start, the first album.

Yep - I've been thinking along these lines ever since the idea of boxed sets was mooted a couple of years back and have wondered what their plan would be.

It makes sense to start with 'Movement', but with it being one of the less well received LPs, this could affect sales.

In some ways, it may have been a safer option to go with one of the three more popular LPs ('PC&L', 'Low Life' or 'Technique'). Then, once people have bought one of those, they're kind of 'hooked' on getting them and may buy the other less popular LPs (the other two 80s LPs and the post-Factory ones).

However, I'm glad they didn't go with this option and am really happy that they started at the beginning.

As Debaser mentions, 'Movement' probably has some of the most interesting 'extras' too (although I think PC&L should be pretty cool).

I just hope that the 'gamble' (if it is one) pays off and we get each LP treated to a similar 'definitive edition'.

In terms of using Movement as an acid test for possible future box, imo the biggest threat to sales is the absurd cost of the thing (include the 12"s and then it's approaching value for money) and the mixed media. If they release each box with separate 12"s as it seems they will, it's going to end up like one of those magazine subscriptions where you get one piece of a model each month and sucks your wallet dry :(

I'm not a fan of bands releasing deluxe editions out of chronological order. You start by establishing the band's legacy, and move forward from there.

I think they're going about this the right way. Movement is my least favorite of the Factory-era albums, but I'm excited for this release. It includes so many extras, plus a 40-page hardback book. The 4 accompanying singles are among their best. At least they're rolling them out one by one, and not 3 at a time. If they spread them out to twice a year - or even one per year - the expense isn't that bad.

NotAMod wrote: It will be interesting to see what the Republic Definitive Edition will feature...

I have such a soft spot for Republic, and I know most people consider Technique to be the last "true" New Order album, but it's Republic for me. I'd love to have a definitive box full of extras.

NotAMod wrote: Me neither. Warners reissued The Smiths stuff out out of chronological order and went straight for a The Queen Is Dead mega-box at the expense of everything else. No doubt perceiving it - inaccurately - to be everyone's favourite Smiths LP. I am glad to see the same approach is not being taken with NO. Also, I'm still waiting for that Strangeways definitive box-set.

If a label releases an expanded box set out of sequence then it's fair to say they probably won't bother with the rest.

If ever there was a niche market... 120 notes to revisit the shakiest moment of a band that hasn't released an album in three years. One for the obsessives, and even they've been bemoaning the price tag. But obviously, this is the place to start. I might be up for PCL (intriguing) or Technique (quality). A proper issue of https://musicforstowaways.wordpress.com/2013/11/30/new-order-1988-demos/ maybe. Otherwise I'll pass.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

...or Technique (quality). A proper issue of https://musicforstowaways.wordpress.com/2013/11/30/new-order-1988-demos/ maybe. Otherwise I'll pass.

Sometimes your posts really are useful Mr Monkhouse. Does everyone know about this tape besides me? It was only in quite recent years that I became aware of the Get Ready (inc Mission Impossible) demo stuff. I do have some BM 88 variations on my hard drive (three tracks known as BM '88 demo cassette). Did they come from here? Do people have digital copies of all these demo bits? Is there demo stuff "out there" for PCL, Low Life and Brotherhood? Have I asked too many questions?

Oh stop it! What are you like?

Debaser wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

...or Technique (quality). A proper issue of https://musicforstowaways.wordpress.com/2013/11/30/new-order-1988-demos/ maybe. Otherwise I'll pass.

Sometimes your posts really are useful Mr Monkhouse. Does everyone know about this tape besides me? It was only in quite recent years that I became aware of the Get Ready (inc Mission Impossible) demo stuff. I do have some BM 88 variations on my hard drive (three tracks known as BM '88 demo cassette). Did they come from here? Do people have digital copies of all these demo bits? Is there demo stuff "out there" for PCL, Low Life and Brotherhood? Have I asked too many questions?

I'm not sure about whether those three Blue Monday 1988 variations you mention are the same as the ones from the above tape, but it seems likely. I have digital copies of the tracks on the Technique tape, so PM me if you want to listen to them to compare.

I expect that demos exist of all LPs, but there's precious few out there in the wild. These are all the demos that I know and have (not including the previously 'unheard by fans' ones that will be on the 'Movement set):

Dreams Never End (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) (Mix 1) 03:43 Dreams Never End (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) (Mix 2) 03:41 Homage (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) 04:15 Ceremony (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) 04:40 Truth (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) 05:29 Are You Ready, Are You Ready, Are You Ready For This? (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) 02:46 Let's Go (Unreleased Original Version) 03:52 Sunrise (Instrumental Rough Mix) 05:45 Sub-Culture (Demo) 06:36 As It Is When It Was (Demo) 03:25 Paradise (Demo) 04:04 Bizarre Love Triangle (Demo) 04:58 Salvation Theme (Salvation Demo) 04:38 Salvation Theme (Salvation Demo 2) 01:50 Touched By The Hand Of God (Salvation Demo) 04:59 Let's Go (Salvation Demo) 03:24 Skullcrusher (Salvation Demo) 03:43 Blue Monday 1988 (Demo - No Samples) (Cut) 01:52 Blue Monday 1988 (Demo - No Samples) (Start Missing) 05:02 Blue Monday 1988 (Demo - No Samples) 07:10 Blue Monday 1988 (Demo - Samples #1) 07:09 Blue Monday 1988 (Demo - Samples #2) 07:09 Love Less (Demo) 00:43 Mr Disco (Demo) 01:04 Don't Do It (Demo) 01:09 Run (Early Version) 00:36 Unknown Demo #1 00:37 Best & Marsh (Demo) 01:18 MTO (Demo) 01:00 Unknown Demo #2 01:24 Guitar and Bass Checks 00:28 Dream Attack (Demo) 05:49 Dream Attack (Demo - Hooky Bass Over Playback) 00:50 Dream Attack (Demo - Monitor Playback) 01:10 Dream Attack (Demo - Hooky Bass Over Playback, With Piano) 01:48 Mr Disco (Demo - Hooky Bass Over Playback) 02:56 Low-Fi Hooky Riffing 00:09 Hi-Fi Hooky Riffing 01:18 More Hi-Fi Hooky Riffing 00:23 Hooky Bass (All The Way #1) 00:23 Low-Volume Ambient Recording (BM Playback Plus Bass Synth to 'Much Too Old') 20:39 Hooky Bass (All The Way #2) 00:25 Hooky Bass ('The Him' Style Riff) 00:40 Guilty Partner (Rehearsal Takes) 03:15 Don't Do It (Rehearsal Takes) 01:54 Unknown #2 (Rehearsal Takes) 00:47 Guilty Partner (Demo #1) 05:26 Guilty Partner (Demo #2) 05:03 Guilty Partner (Demo #3) 03:35 All The Way (Demo) 03:32 Run 2 (7" Edited Master) 03:39 Run 2 (Unedited Old Arrangement) 04:12 Run 2 (Instrumental) 04:28 Run 2 (7" Original Mix) 03:40 60 MPH ['60 Miles An Hour'] (Mix 2) 04:36 Runwild ['Primitive Notion'] (Mix 3) 05:59 Dream On ['Close Range'] (Original Mix) 04:39 Crystal 07:23 Freefall ['Someone Like You'] (Mix 2) 06:28 Slow Jam (Mix 4) 05:34 Shipwreck ['Turn My Way'] (Mix 2) 05:15 Vicious Streak (Mix 3) 06:44 Field ['Player In The League'] (Mix 1 Vox Up) 05:36 Run This River Dry ['Sabotage'] (Recall From Submix) 04:50 Full Circle ['Run Wild'] (Mix 2) 04:12 Beach Demo #1 ['Brutal'] (Instrumental) 05:23 Beach Demo #2 ['60 Miles An Hour'] (Original Version) 04:06 Beach Demo #3 ['Mission Impossible' Theme] 03:11 Brutal (Rollo EQ'ed as Master 1 But Vox Down) 04:45 Brutal (Rollo EQ'ed As Master 2) 04:44 Brutal (Rollo EQ'ed As Master 1) 04:45 Brutal (Monitor Mix 29/09/99) 04:36 Brutal (Monitor Mix - Rollo Restructure 30/09/99) 04:54 60 MPH ['60 Miles An Hour'] (Demo - Rollo Monitor Mix) 04:02 Shipwreck Of A Broken Man ['Turn My Way'] (No Billy Corgan) 05:27 Temptation '98 (Albert Square, Manchester - 21/08/98 Louder Vocal Mix) 04:09 60 MPH ['60 Miles An Hour'] (David Kahne V2 Edit) 04:44 60 MPH ['60 Miles An Hour'] (Steve Osborne Monitor Mix) 04:40 Crystal (Steve Osborne Monitor Mix) 05:42 Minidisc 2 ['Dracula's Castle'] (Early Mix) 05:24 Jet ['Jetstream'] (Early Mix - No Ana Matronic) 05:06 Jet ['Jetstream'] (Drum-less Intro) 05:22 Fast Synth ['Guilt Is A Useless Emotion'] (Early Mix) 05:38 Turn (Early Mix) (Alternate Percussion) 04:35 Working Overtime (Early Mix) 03:28

The above include all the pre-mix stuff (i.e. Run, Get Ready and Waiting For The Sirens' Call leaked tapes).

I will say that the 'Bizarre Love Triangle' demo sounds like a rehearsal to me, rather than a demo. Also, I'm pretty sure the 'Sub-Culture' demo is just the Razormaid / 'Record Mirror' mix. Probably mislabelled (either deliberately or accidentally) by the original bootlegger.

The Technique ones are probably the most interesting (well, to me, anyway). But other ones of note are:

1. the Western Works demos (most of which will be on the Movement set);
2. the original vocal version of 'Let's Go' ("Waiting For So Long") (probably recorded in preparation for Low Life, which I'm sure everyone has heard by now);
3. 'Sunrise' (Instrumental Rough Mix) (released on the 'Discreet Campaigns' tape);
4. 'As It Is When It Was' demo (an early version, probably again recorded for Low Life);
5. The 'Salvation' demos, which include a early vocal take of Let's Go using the "Nothing For Me" lyrics); (***)
6. 'Mission Impossible' theme (recorded during the '98 'The Beach' sessions, that 'Brutal', 'Crystal' and '60 miles an hour' came from);
7. 'Shipwreck Of A Broken Man' ('Turn My Way', but without nasally Billy Corgan)
8. 'Jet' ('Jetstream', without Ana Matronic - Yep, it does exist folks!)

(***) A little story about this one. Back in about 1994, I was trading with a fan and he had something labelled on his trade list as 'Salvation Demos'. My curiosity piqued, I asked for a copy.

When I got them, they were labelled up as containing demos of 'Salvation Theme' (two versions), 'Touched...', 'Skullcrusher' and 'Let's Go'. Naturally, I assumed that the 'Let's Go' demo would likely be an instrumental, just as the version released on the soundtrack was. I had assumed that a vocal version of the track had long been abandoned following the "Waiting For So Long" Low Life demo. (Remember, this was in 1994, so about 12 months before we all got to hear about the "Nothing For Me" version).

I put the tape in the player and almost shat myself when I heard a completely different vocal version of 'Let's Go'. Obviously, the impact of this was lessened when, a year later, a refined version of this very demo was released on the '1963' CD single. But, to suddenly hear an almost completely 'new' track, including Barney vocals, was a little exciting.

You have to remember that this was directly following the (mostly) car wreck that was 'Republic' and worse mess that was the 'remix fest' that we were subjected to at the time (Sly & Robbie Bogle Mix, anyone? No, I didn't think so...). So, yeah, new New Order sounded absolutely golden.

The demo is quite similar but there are a number of obvious variations, and it's definitely a different vocal take to the released version.

My message was rejected as spam.I was trying to say i have most of the above but haven't listened to all.But i don't have the WFTSC ones.There's also The Basement Tapes with rough sketches of This Time Of Night and more.And one called 'fairly advanced sequencer and synth one' that has the car screeching noise like in TPK live and has some great promise and ideas.Someone on here stuck it on YouTube a few years ago but it got taken down eventually.It's about 9 minutes long and is from early sessions for Low Life i guess.

Fotzepolitic wrote: My message was rejected as spam.I was trying to say i have most of the above but haven't listened to all.But i don't have the WFTSC ones.There's also The Basement Tapes with rough sketches of This Time Of Night and more.And one called 'fairly advanced sequencer and synth one' that has the car screeching noise like in TPK live and has some great promise and ideas.Someone on here stuck it on YouTube a few years ago but it got taken down eventually.It's about 9 minutes long and is from early sessions for Low Life i guess.

Ah yes. I'f forgotten about those. I think they're mainly rehearsals, aren't they? But, to be fair, a lot of the Technique ones are similar sort of things.

Just for completeness, these are the ones I have labelled as 'rehearsals'. I think that one you mentioned was called 'fairly advanced sequencer and synth one' , i have labelled as 'untitled' and is 11:55 in length.

In A Lonely Place (1980 Rehearsal) 05:24 Procession (1980 Rehearsal) 02:47 Homage (1980 Rehearsal) 03:39 Dialogue (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 01:58 Hurt (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 01:10 Hurt (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 09:53 Hurt (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 06:38 Unknown (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 05:13 Ultraviolence (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 00:59 Ultraviolence (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 01:39 Ecstasy (Late 1982 Rehearsal) 00:40 Ecstasy (Late 1982 Rehearsal) 11:58 Paradise (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 03:21 This Time Of Night (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 00:50 This Time Of Night (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 00:50 Love Vigilantes (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 01:31 Love Vigilantes (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 02:48 Untitled (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 11:55

As regards being rejected as SPAM, I've found that the less abbreviations you have in your post, the better. Sometimes, it accepts abbreviations (like it did with WFTSC for you), but if you go to edit the post later, it rejects these abbreviations. Often, lengthening things like 'TPK' to 'The Perfect Kiss' etc. seems to work.

(Having now used abbreviations in my post to illustrate the point, you watch me have trouble trying to post this...)

perspexorange wrote: (Having now used abbreviations in my post to illustrate the point, you watch me have trouble trying to post this...)

It didn't. Went through first time. Go figure...

Yeah i think they’d be classed as rehearsals / jams rather than demos so they wouldn’t make it into any future box set.I keep making the mistake of calling them demos.

Fotzepolitic wrote: Yeah i think they’d be classed as rehearsals / jams rather than demos so they wouldn’t make it into any future box set.I keep making the mistake of calling them demos.

To be fair, I think most of the things I've listed as demos could just as easily be classed as rehearsals, so I am as much to blame. I'm listening to the Technique ones now and most of them are just Hooky noodling away.

It's a shame the Guilty Partner ones are so murky (they seem more murky than the others) as these are rather nice with Barney 'la-la-larring' through them.

Latest Transmission:

Has anyone set advanced eyes on the actual box yet? I'm wondering it has been designed to house the 4 12"s as well - given that they were bundled in the NO Store

Although I wish this was the case, I’d imagine not. Just as it would probably make the box a bit too loose for those only buying Movement.

I hope I’m proved wrong though.

Doesn't look likely that the 12"s will fit in the box, but it does look nice... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Movement-Definitive-VINYL-New-Order/dp/B07LGS5TVR

Thanks. Looks good.

Looking forward to seeing what’s in the book.

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Doesn't look likely that the 12"s will fit in the box, but it does look nice... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Movement-Definitive-VINYL-New-Order/dp/B07LGS5TVR

You could have Amazon under the trades description act for that image, going by that image you get the 12 inch singles included with the box.

I’m kind of hoping I might receive the box on Thursday afternoon, the Ceremony 12 inch green cover reissue arrived on the Thursday before the official Friday release date

Yes - good point - would have to get a shipment notice pretty soon though and I've had nothing yet

Should get a reasonable rebate on the pre-order price guarantee -It was £109.99 when I ordered it, and is currently £94.59

According to the data the lowest the price has dipped in between times is £89.22 - so that's the price all the pre-orders will pay when it ships

Mine hasn't shipped yet but Amazon states it will be delivered on Friday.

Just a heads up, Denial has crept into the Hurrah's tracklisting by mistake on the sleeve artwork. No idea how this happened. Obviously it wasn't even written in Sept 1980 so is not actually there.

Cheers for the heads up about this.

Bit annoying. I noticed this error in the press release back in December (and I mentioned it earlier in this thread). I’m guessing that the same data that went to the press release sadly also went to the printers.

A minor annoyance though. Hopefully that’s the only issue with this set. After the 2007 Rhino reissues, I always get worried about these things.

I was that exited when this release was announced I ordered direct from the New Order site immediately at very high cost compared to amazon.

The upside of that is that I have been notified it is out for delivery.

For the money I paid it should be delivered by Bernard, Steve and Gillian! Looking forward to p,aging it all, I’ll dedicate a whole night to Movement. Purposely not played anything from the movement era dive this was announced so it will all sound real,y fresh

Amazon message tells me it’s out for delivery today. Will be delivered today. Except I’m at work. Hope it gets left with the neighbours.

Amazon also notified me it has shipped and will arrive Thursday.

Of course where I live, by the time it's delivered, it will likely already be Friday for most of you.

People on facebook are showing off with pics of them taking it out of the envelope/package today and calling it "amazing" before they've even opened the box. 32 likes and counting. You won't get that much "love" on here!

Still no shipment notice here in the UK from Amazon - grrr

One thing I noticed on the 6 music play of the Ceremony Western Works demo was that it didn't sound greatly different to the circulating bootleg version. I always assumed the horrible phasing on the hi-hat was wow on the bootleg transfer, but it's still there so maybe it was deliberate? Glad they ditched that idea if so!

First impressions- a lot of care and attention gone into this. A beautiful thing. Helpful touch with the white ribbon to ease getting the stuff out of the box.Oh, they’ve included the original see through plastic sleeve AND a new white card sleeve for the inner of the vinyl.

Book is fantastic.

First thing I played was the alternative 1982 7” mix of Tempation, yes some differences to the released 7”.

Oh and Colin Torr (Biginoil from these forums once upon a time, maybe he still does post but under a different username?) gets a credit!

Wonderful wonderful release. At last new order back catalogue gets the respect it deserves. Very high quality.

Going to watch some of the DVD in a bit can’t wait! Book is brilliant had a feel of the superb book by dec Hickey about it and when I get to the end some he is credited with a court leg of photos. Other known fans have contributed as well. Well though out concept, a great purchase for us NO obsessives. It’s took some doing but they’ve got it right at last.

Looking at my original 12” and the new ones all the covers have slight differences (apart fromEGG which is major) which I think is deliberate to mark them as different to the originals, all seem different lightness or darknesss in the colours unless my originals are just faded with age, but temptation new 12 is more faded than my original.

Just watching hurrahs, excellent quality footage considering the age.

Absolutely fascinating. Bernard sings in a lonely place, Stephen then sings procession then Hooky the next 2 (DNE and mesh) that’s as far as I hav3 got up to now. Never realised Steve ever sang procession or Hooky mesh

So far I’ve watched the Hurrah, Peppermint Lounge and Riverside stuff. Bernard dances during Hurt at Peppermint Lounge,or kind of dances. Didn’t realise he danced in those days. Some great versions of Temptation and EGG in there.Found i enjoyed the Riverside thing the best. I think I’d only ever seen Temptation and Chosen time from that so to see stuff like Procession and In A Lonely Place on that was really good.

Grrr - Amazon still not shipped for me. It's meant to be delivered tomorrow but Amazon are saying 'before 11pm'. It better arrive wayyyy before then!!

There seems to be a few people having received their box from Amazon.co.uk today. I thought the release date was tomorrow (5th). If it is, it's very strange for Amazon to deliver a day early. Never known them to deliver early.

PS Kind of serendipity that I 'ranked up' on the forum to 'Member Of The Movement' in the week that the box set was released.

perspexorange wrote: Grrr - Amazon still not shipped for me. It's meant to be delivered tomorrow but Amazon are saying 'before 11pm'. It better arrive wayyyy before then!!

I'm in the same boat. I'm envious of everybody that has their hands on it already!

I'm working in the morning, so knowing my luck, I'll miss the Prime delivery man and have to wait till Saturday!

By the way, I also live in Shropshire. Small world!

dallywhitty wrote:

perspexorange wrote: Grrr - Amazon still not shipped for me. It's meant to be delivered tomorrow but Amazon are saying 'before 11pm'. It better arrive wayyyy before then!!

I'm in the same boat. I'm envious of everybody that has their hands on it already!

I'm working in the morning, so knowing my luck, I'll miss the Prime delivery man and have to wait till Saturday!

By the way, I also live in Shropshire. Small world!

It’s a nice corner of the world. Have been here all my life.

My box set has now been dispatched. My wife has offered to stay in for most of the day, but will need to pop out to take my son to school and pick him up. What’s the betting Amazon try to deliver during the half hour she’s missing?

perspexorange wrote:

dallywhitty wrote:

perspexorange wrote: Grrr - Amazon still not shipped for me. It's meant to be delivered tomorrow but Amazon are saying 'before 11pm'. It better arrive wayyyy before then!!

I'm in the same boat. I'm envious of everybody that has their hands on it already!

I'm working in the morning, so knowing my luck, I'll miss the Prime delivery man and have to wait till Saturday!

By the way, I also live in Shropshire. Small world!

It’s a nice corner of the world. Have been here all my life.

My ancestors on my mother’s side were all from Shropshire. Market Drayton and area.

I’m still at work with the box waiting for me at home.

Just put some of the demos on Apple Music though.

Wow! Mesh with Hooky on vocals, like those early live performances. Plus all different lyrics (again resembling the live performances).

Cries and Whispers with new lyrics.

Colour me so bloody excited...

Roll on 4 o’clock when I can get out of here and home.

Mine arrived earlier from Amazon - it really is beautiful. I hadn't expected the box to be in the same "hessian" style as the old FAC cassettes - it would have been a nice touch to have copied the font and style for the front, but I guess that the plan is to start a new series in t's own design. I wonder what colour the PCL box will be?

Only got as far as the extras CD so far. Western Works demos sound a bit bright and in your face compared to the bootleg versions.

That first mix of Ceremony is bizarre to here - much less of the reverb, and I was really getting into it - then they fade it out. I think they made the right choice to lose the fade on subsequent versions as the ending is one of the best bits!

Oh and there is the obligatory minor artwork mistake of course - the spine of the vinyl LP has the catalog number FACD 50 - d'oh!

I hadn't noticed the FACD thing at first glance, but then noticed that someone had mentioned it on Facebook. Again, a very minor quibble.

The set is truly a thing of beauty. Even at £120 RRP, I still think it's worth it (I pre-ordered through Amazon, so got it for £89). I too was pleasantly surprised by the linen feel of the box. It really does hark back to those FAC cassettes! Lovely stuff!

The book is fantastic. Can't wait to read it. I love how they've taken photos of all the band's equipment used. I hope they continue to do this in the other box sets. Nice to see Barney's old 'seconds' 335. It looks like he still has it. (Man, I'd kill to own that piece of equipment! To me, that's how I always picture Barney - playing that guitar).

About to play the DVD. Should be good.

perspexorange wrote: Grrr - Amazon still not shipped for me. It's meant to be delivered tomorrow but Amazon are saying 'before 11pm'. It better arrive wayyyy before then!!

There seems to be a few people having received their box from Amazon.co.uk today. I thought the release date was tomorrow (5th). If it is, it's very strange for Amazon to deliver a day early. Never known them to deliver early.

PS Kind of serendipity that I 'ranked up' on the forum to 'Member Of The Movement' in the week that the box set was released.

I think most people who received the box yesterday ordered direct from the new order store (I did anyway)

Ordered mine from Amazon (£89) and received it yesterday ( Thursday).

Crikey, Barney is kind of possessed in the Granada thing .

Just finished listening to the extras CD. Really enjoyed the Cargo sessions stuff.

So much to consume and comment on.

Watching the DVD at the moment. The Peppermint Lounge gig is F***ING superb!! Everything's Gone Green, Hurt and Temptation (the latter two in early versions).

It's so good, I'm surprised it's never been seen before.

More thoughts later, inevitably...

Was waiting at Amoeba Music when they opened at 11. They had two boxes on display and I grabbed one. $133.98 U.S., but so worth it. I'll spend the rest of the day getting lost in it.

NotAMod wrote: The demos are giving a whole new side to many of the songs.

The 'Doubts Even Here' Cargo Instrumental is fucking great.

Was about to post saying the same thing.Cracking version.All the songs live (and even a lot of the demos) are way better than the finished versions on the album.Well i've always thought that (about the live versions) anyway.This totally confirms it for me.

GotBlueEyes wrote: That first mix of Ceremony ... I was really getting into it - then they fade it out.

THIS. 😈

This is just so fucking great. The whole god damn thing.

The Hurrahs gig and peppermint lounge are superb, listening and watching whilst checking the heaven to heaven book and his thoughts on the gigs, would love to have been there.....and now I kinda am. Love Hooky singing on mesh extra verse. The intensity and innovation around this time is just so exciting. Still sounds fresh.

Even at this early stage to my ears live they sound on another 🌏. Well worth the money in my opinion, think how much a bootleg of these gigs on eBay would have cost. Once out of reach........

Debaser wrote:

"the handful of tracks new order recorded in sheffield, long available as scratchy bootlegs, receive their first official release on the Movement boxset. Completed in a single night, with all three band members alternating lead vocals, the session yielded rough versions of “Ceremony”,“dreams never end” and “truth”. the band also laid down a rowdy glam-punk number called “homage”, which they never revisited, and a spoofy funk-rap jam featuring Mal and rob Gretton on vocals, later titled “Are You ready Are You ready Are You ready for this?”"

So Western Works will be on there. Funny of them to describe what's already 'out there' as scratchy (salesmsanship, eh?). The digital download I have isn't particularly scratchy, although of course they sound like demos, and probably still will when they end up in the box set. Of course it makes sense to include them, but will they sound noticably better? Nah.

I agree with...myself. I guess if you had vinyl bootlegs, these tracks will sound clearer than those records. But if you were lucky enough to have been sent FLAC/WAVs by a generous forum member, then they sound pretty much as expected.

Meanwhile, this didn't take long (Mr Z if you're reading, you didn't see these, alright?)

*EDIT* Another one:

Been a while since I posted on here, but feel the need to say how much I'm enjoying the Cargo demos. Was going to give this a miss as well, but saw it in the local record shop and couldn't resist...

On first listen, I can't hear any difference between the alternate Temptation 7" and the released version. Anyone spotted anything obvious?

Hi all ! , sorry for bothering, I do not know if this is the right place to ask, but I would like to know if at some point you could get a torrent of the DVD that accompanies Movement, thanks to everyone from now on!

Those versions of Hurt and Procession from Paris '82 are incredible. Even Chosen Time - with the guitar totally out of tune - is just amazing. Best and most frustrating band in the world.

Mr Discography wrote: On first listen, I can't hear any difference between the alternate Temptation 7" and the released version. Anyone spotted anything obvious?

same here, just a different mastering. but it matches the regular 7 inch to me.

maybe they put the wrong version on here.

later -1

Took delivery yersterday. I love the quality of the box, and the way it’s based on the old fabric cassette boxes. The book is fantastic. The Cargo demos are superb, and hearing the Western Works demos so you can actually hear the lyrics is brilliant. I now wish Homage had actually been released.

negative1 wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: On first listen, I can't hear any difference between the alternate Temptation 7" and the released version. Anyone spotted anything obvious?

same here, just a different mastering. but it matches the regular 7 inch to me.

maybe they put the wrong version on here.

later -1

Listen around 2'10, there's a different emphasis on which guitar parts are more prominent. This one has the strummed guitar more upfront.

Not a major change but a little more like the 12" version.

Listened to the Cargo demos last night and listening again now. I love them. Great to hear the lyrics all crystal clear.

Mesh and Cries and Whispers are my two favourites, mainly because they are quite different (especially the former) from the released versions. I echo others views about Doubts Even Here instrumental demo. Wonderful. Really powerful.

Have now watched most of the video material (haven’t watched the ‘extras’ yet). It’s all so good. What a fabulous live band they were at this point (or at any point really). The Peppermint Lounge gig is my new favourite gig from the period.

I’ve decided to make myself a copy of the ‘complete’ Celebration gig (both sets they did), using the footage that’s on the Glasgow DVD, the Movement DVD, the broadcast version and filling in the missing tracks with mp3s downloaded from YouTube. Will be nice to watch the whole thing once I’ve done it.

One thing I wanted to ask to any of the Movement archivists watching this thread, was how come the BBC Riverside footage is fairly grainy and of a low quality? (I’ve noticed moments where I get lateral lines across the screen). I’d have thought that this would be the best quality footage on the disc, being from a respected TV station. Not a criticism; just an observation. Unless my DVD or player is faulty.

perspexorange wrote:

One thing I wanted to ask to any of the Movement archivists watching this thread, was how come the BBC Riverside footage is fairly grainy and of a low quality? (I’ve noticed moments where I get lateral lines across the screen). I’d have thought that this would be the best quality footage on the disc, being from a respected TV station. Not a criticism; just an observation. Unless my DVD or player is faulty.

The feint horizontal lines that seem to come and go are on the original broadcast footage, it's like some kind of interference from the music in the studio perhaps? Not much we could do about it.

Johnny James wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

One thing I wanted to ask to any of the Movement archivists watching this thread, was how come the BBC Riverside footage is fairly grainy and of a low quality? (I’ve noticed moments where I get lateral lines across the screen). I’d have thought that this would be the best quality footage on the disc, being from a respected TV station. Not a criticism; just an observation. Unless my DVD or player is faulty.

The feint horizontal lines that seem to come and go are on the original broadcast footage, it's like some kind of interference from the music in the studio perhaps? Not much we could do about it.

No problem. I just thought it strange. It's not particularly distracting and at least there's nothing wrong with my DVD.

I'm absolutely thrilled with the set - easily the best thing I've bought in an age. I'd like to thank yourself and any others who had a hand in putting the set together for a job 'very' well done. I really couldn't be happier.

I'll probably try to write a mini review at some point, once I've watched / listened / read everything multiple times. In the meantime, I'm loving reading everyone else's opinions of the set.

Johnny James wrote:

negative1 wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: On first listen, I can't hear any difference between the alternate Temptation 7" and the released version. Anyone spotted anything obvious?

same here, just a different mastering. but it matches the regular 7 inch to me.

maybe they put the wrong version on here.

later -1

Listen around 2'10, there's a different emphasis on which guitar parts are more prominent. This one has the strummed guitar more upfront.

Not a major change but a little more like the 12" version.

Yes this is what i hear.The guitar more upfront at 2.10 is like/is the strummed guitar in the 1982 12" but maybe that's just down to mastering? Maybe that guitar strumming around 2.10 is actually in the original 7" but lower down in the mix? Also thought the drums are not so full on as the original 7" release.And maybe a few synth bleeps more detailed/upfront?

Johnny James wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

One thing I wanted to ask to any of the Movement archivists watching this thread, was how come the BBC Riverside footage is fairly grainy and of a low quality? (I’ve noticed moments where I get lateral lines across the screen). I’d have thought that this would be the best quality footage on the disc, being from a respected TV station. Not a criticism; just an observation. Unless my DVD or player is faulty.

The feint horizontal lines that seem to come and go are on the original broadcast footage, it's like some kind of interference from the music in the studio perhaps? Not much we could do about it.

Hard to say this without it coming across as a complaint which is not my intention, it's meant as an observation but i thought the Temptation clip from Riverside that is often repeated on BBC4 on Friday nights on programmes like Synth Brittania is better quality than what's on the DVD.But i'm not disappointed, as i say it's just an observation.The clips included from Riverside on the DVD like Procession and In A Lonely Place are fantastic to finally see.I did wonder if there's something wrong with my DVD player (it is pretty old now) when i saw the Temptation clip and the lines across the screen in the other clips from Riverside but it's fine.Just great to see that tv appearance in full at last.

I do hear a difference in the tempation mix, but there is in several areas, especially near the end.

Again, I thought it was more of a mastering difference, and more of a subtle change.

Top is the Alternate mix, bottom is the original 7 inch.

later -1

Similarly, I hear little difference between the 'Ceremony' 1st mix and the original 7" version. Are there any differences other than the fade out?

negative1 wrote: I do hear a difference in the tempation mix, but there is in several areas, especially near the end.

Again, I thought it was more of a mastering difference, and more of a subtle change.

Top is the Alternate mix, bottom is the original 7 inch.

later -1

This is really helpful. Thanks -1.

While we're on the subject of Temptation, does anyone know the story behind the 'Something Wild' soundtrack version? It's quite different, with the 'green eyes, grey eyes, blue eyes' line appearing at the start and again before the second verse.

Was it another alternate 7" version that was discarded at the time of release, only to be resurrected for the soundtrack in 1986? Or was it something newly created using the original tracks especially for the soundtrack?

If anyone needs a reminder of how the version sounds:

perspexorange wrote: While we're on the subject of Temptation, does anyone know the story behind the 'Something Wild' soundtrack version? It's quite different, with the 'green eyes, grey eyes, blue eyes' line appearing at the start and again before the second verse.

Was it another alternate 7" version that was discarded at the time of release, only to be resurrected for the soundtrack in 1986? Or was it something newly created using the original tracks especially for the soundtrack?

If anyone needs a reminder of how the version sounds:

It's a fairly messy edit of the original 7".

Cheers Johnny. Any idea who did the edit? Presumably not the band?

perspexorange wrote: Cheers Johnny. Any idea who did the edit? Presumably not the band?

No idea, probably someone associated with the film.

Thanks. Makes sense.

Haven't posted on here for many a long year....

Perhaps Rocket Mick and Shug Sludden of Corby remember me?

I did an early Recycle type CDR thing in a shoebox type thing many moons ago.

Anyway this Movement box has got me stoked again - great stuff.

Received the box on Friday and has made my weekend - a quality item!

I'm kind of in love with the Cargo demo version of 'Cries and Whispers.'

Just realised that the Peppermint Lounge gig is only a couple of days later than the Taras Schevchenko gig - but it feels much looser and energetic. I guess that they were less self-conscious of the cameras - and I think it was the last night of that US tour?

The Hurrah's gig is the night after the Hoboken gig that surfaced a few years ago - same set list, just minus the unreleased track "Hour". I loved that Hoboken bootleg, the way they sounded so on the edge of it all falling apart, so to see actual video footage of the following night is quite something

AdamTate wrote: Haven't posted on here for many a long year....

Anyway this Movement box has got me stoked again - great stuff.

Received the box on Friday and has made my weekend - a quality item!

Welcome back! Good to have different people posting on here.

dallywhitty wrote: I'm kind of in love with the Cargo demo version of 'Cries and Whispers.'

Me too. Mesh is my favourite though.

All the Cargo demos are fantastic. Love the extra guitar on Truth. Doubts Even Here is magnificent also.

I think, had the songs been released a bit more like this, the LP would be liked more by fans. I personally love the LP myself, but I hear things in these demos I’ve never noticed before. Everything just sounds so clear and too damn ‘good’ to be classed as demos, IMHO. When you here demos, they’re usually murky or skeletons of the songs in question. Not so here.

GotBlueEyes wrote: Just realised that the Peppermint Lounge gig is only a couple of days later than the Taras Schevchenko gig - but it feels much looser and energetic. I guess that they were less self-conscious of the cameras - and I think it was the last night of that US tour?

The Hurrah's gig is the night after the Hoboken gig that surfaced a few years ago - same set list, just minus the unreleased track "Hour". I loved that Hoboken bootleg, the way they sounded so on the edge of it all falling apart, so to see actual video footage of the following night is quite something

Yep, these two gigs are highlights in a truly brilliant box set.

It really is a remarkable box. Quick highlight for me is Bernard's dancing on Hurt / Peppermint Lounge on the DVD. First footage from that period I've ever seen that has him in other than dour-mode. Great version of the track too. Gritty.

DR

Dennis Remmer wrote: It really is a remarkable box. Quick highlight for me is Bernard's dancing on Hurt / Peppermint Lounge on the DVD. First footage from that period I've ever seen that has him in other than dour-mode. DR

There is a moment in ETGG just after he stops playing his melodica where he starts to dance and he sub-consciously apes Ian Curtis - then you can almost feel him realise what he's done and he immediately stops. Must have been a very strange time for him

Other thoughts upon repeated listening - the sparse Cargo instrumental demo of Doubts Even Here is incredible - and it dawned on me how similar it sounds to the version of The Eternal they did at the Preston Warehouse gig when all the equipment was packing up. Listen to them back to back and you'll see what I mean.

Was the Cargo session widely known about by fans prior to this boxset? The notes say simply January 1981 - and looking at the gig guide they had a few shows in early January - then nothing till early February. The Peel Session was recorded late January I think. The intro to ICB changed between the Cargo session and the Peel Session, but the rest of the tracks are very similar. I'd guess the recording date at around the 15-20 Jan? Strange that nothing ever surfaced officially - it sounds pretty good to me...

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Dennis Remmer wrote: It really is a remarkable box. Quick highlight for me is Bernard's dancing on Hurt / Peppermint Lounge on the DVD. First footage from that period I've ever seen that has him in other than dour-mode. DR

There is a moment in ETGG just after he stops playing his melodica where he starts to dance and he sub-consciously apes Ian Curtis - then you can almost feel him realise what he's done and he immediately stops. Must have been a very strange time for him

Other thoughts upon repeated listening - the sparse Cargo instrumental demo of Doubts Even Here is incredible - and it dawned on me how similar it sounds to the version of The Eternal they did at the Preston Warehouse gig when all the equipment was packing up. Listen to them back to back and you'll see what I mean.

Was the Cargo session widely known about by fans prior to this boxset? The notes say simply January 1981 - and looking at the gig guide they had a few shows in early January - then nothing till early February. The Peel Session was recorded late January I think. The intro to ICB changed between the Cargo session and the Peel Session, but the rest of the tracks are very similar. I'd guess the recording date at around the 15-20 Jan? Strange that nothing ever surfaced officially - it sounds pretty good to me...

This should tell you: Cargo Studios Wall Planners

Interesting. So I assume the New Order Cargo session is where the planner says 'Rob Gretton' (Wed 21 Jan to Fri 23 Jan 1981). John Peel session was recorded on Monday 26 January, so the very next working day - which would explain the similarities (guess changes to ICB intro were decided on over the weekend or on the day of recording the John Peel session).

Mr Discography wrote: Interesting. So I assume the New Order Cargo session is where the planner says 'Rob Gretton' (Wed 21 Jan to Fri 23 Jan 1981). John Peel session was recorded on Monday 26 January, so the very next working day - which would explain the similarities (guess changes to ICB intro were decided on over the weekend or on the day of recording the John Peel session).

I just noticed that in Mark Johnson's Ideal For Living book he notes the Movement recording dates as January-July 1981 - which means he must have been aware of and counting the January Cargo session as part of the album sessions. So does that mean there was other stuff from this session that ended up on the album, and what we have in the boxset is just the unreleased stuff or was the whole session scrapped? The Him for example was played at gigs in December 1980 but not in the Cargo recordings?

GotBlueEyes wrote: There is a moment in ETGG just after he stops playing his melodica where he starts to dance and he sub-consciously apes Ian Curtis - then you can almost feel him realise what he's done and he immediately stops. Must have been a very strange time for him

I noticed that too, and had the exact same thought.

Mr Discography wrote: Interesting. So I assume the New Order Cargo session is where the planner says 'Rob Gretton' (Wed 21 Jan to Fri 23 Jan 1981). John Peel session was recorded on Monday 26 January, so the very next working day - which would explain the similarities (guess changes to ICB intro were decided on over the weekend or on the day of recording the John Peel session).

Rob also hired it out on the Sunday (25th), but the looks of things.

Also, the mixing appears to have been done on the 29th.

Just saw all the latest Movement tracks posted to Youtube via the official NewOrder account...

curious if this might backfire and reduce sales of actual product if you can listen to it on youtube

because it sounds fantastic, very clear and remastered or something

never heard the Western Works demos sound so crisp, so used to hearing some crap bootleg cassette I had from the 1980s

tarbox23 wrote: Just saw all the latest Movement tracks posted to Youtube via the official NewOrder account...

curious if this might backfire and reduce sales of actual product if you can listen to it on youtube

The (virtual) two disc version of the box set was also put on Spotify (the one that Qobuz charge about £30 for). I thought they mght do that in a year's time but was surprised they did it immediately.

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Interesting. So I assume the New Order Cargo session is where the planner says 'Rob Gretton' (Wed 21 Jan to Fri 23 Jan 1981). John Peel session was recorded on Monday 26 January, so the very next working day - which would explain the similarities (guess changes to ICB intro were decided on over the weekend or on the day of recording the John Peel session).

I just noticed that in Mark Johnson's Ideal For Living book he notes the Movement recording dates as January-July 1981 - which means he must have been aware of and counting the January Cargo session as part of the album sessions. So does that mean there was other stuff from this session that ended up on the album, and what we have in the boxset is just the unreleased stuff or was the whole session scrapped? The Him for example was played at gigs in December 1980 but not in the Cargo recordings?

I should have gone straight to Hooky's book - he lists the Cargo demos as 21-23 January, so it was there all along that they demo'ed the album

dallywhitty wrote: I'm kind of in love with the Cargo demo version of 'Cries and Whispers.'

Yeah - it's fantastic - and very different to the released version. I'm now curious as to when the released versions of Mesh and Cries & Whispers were recorded. Neither MJ or Hooky explicitly mention which session they came from They both state that Procession and ETGG were recorded at Strawberry on 10-12 March, but no mention of those other two tracks.

There is also a contradiction over when ETGG was actually recorded. MJ states it was written and recorded at the end of the main Movement sessions 24 April-4 May. So it can't have also been recorded nearly 2 months before it was written?! It wasn't debuted live until 15th May either, so that ties in with the later date. It was also always mentioned as the last session they did with Hannett - so again it can't have been recorded in March as they still had the whole of the Movement sessions to look forward to.

On that basis I think it must have been Mesh / C&W that were recorded in March along with Procession at Strawberry. They are certainly more sonically similar to Procession as opposed to the spacier sound of Movement - and had both already been dropped from the set in the January (the plan for the main Movement sesion was supposed to be the current live set + new songs written in the studio)

I have not watched NO videos for years , although i loved them , especially the one that played vicious streak on "pause "If this is cheaper in the future it will be another asset. I do not ever feel deprived , as there is so much to choose from . NO and Light tours come often enough, all is wonderful . What i want most of all is for NO to record some new modern super psychedelic electronica , wiith their usual sensitivity, beauty , understanding, bliss, technique ,and the usual stellar , superlative exccellence NO is known for . In other words , the usual eternal greatness songwise, with mesmerizing fun, interesting, and nearly divine sonic stories with thrills ,spills, chills, and majesty and greatness. And Eno and a myriad of other wonderful bands and individuals will all thank NO for raising the bar again .Best band ever ,whether they rap, or hop or hip ir pop or go into the depths of our souls . Welcome to the future , the cosmos , and the always football correct , The Psychedelic New Order

Had 6Music on at work today. Movement is “Album” of the day. Or rather the box set is what they’re playing a lot of today. Senses (Cargo Demo) on Shaun Keaveny right now. Dreams Never End album version got played by I think John Hancock morning show earlier and Mary Anne Hobbs played the alternate Temptation.Steve Morris will be On Radcliffe & Maconie show on 11th May apparently.

GotBlueEyes wrote:

I'm now curious as to when the released versions of Mesh and Cries & Whispers were recorded. Neither MJ or Hooky explicitly mention which session they came from They both state that Procession and ETGG were recorded at Strawberry on 10-12 March, but no mention of those other two tracks.

There is also a contradiction over when ETGG was actually recorded. MJ states it was written and recorded at the end of the main Movement sessions 24 April-4 May. So it can't have also been recorded nearly 2 months before it was written?! It wasn't debuted live until 15th May either, so that ties in with the later date. It was also always mentioned as the last session they did with Hannett - so again it can't have been recorded in March as they still had the whole of the Movement sessions to look forward to.

On that basis I think it must have been Mesh / C&W that were recorded in March along with Procession at Strawberry. They are certainly more sonically similar to Procession as opposed to the spacier sound of Movement - and had both already been dropped from the set in the January (the plan for the main Movement sesion was supposed to be the current live set + new songs written in the studio)

Well doesn't the story go that the reason Everything's Gone Green is titled as such is because they came out of the studio after a long day recording an, at that point, untitled track and all the snow that had been on the ground when they went in had all melted and the grass was now visible again and someone said "hey,everything's gone green!" So that sounds to me like March.Snow melting rapidly in a few hours is the kind of thing that happens in March (or anytime of winter really i suppose).So they decided to name their new track Everything's Gone Green.This could of course all be just a story.

Fotzepolitic wrote:

Well doesn't the story go that the reason Everything's Gone Green is titled as such is because they came out of the studio after a long day recording an, at that point, untitled track and all the snow that had been on the ground when they went in had all melted and the grass was now visible again and someone said "hey,everything's gone green!" So that sounds to me like March.Snow melting rapidly in a few hours is the kind of thing that happens in March (or anytime of winter really i suppose).So they decided to name their new track Everything's Gone Green.This could of course all be just a story.

The story I read was that after a long day of recording and drugs, when they/he stepped out of the recording studio, his vision was altered due to fatigue and drugs. Everything had gone green, and thats where the opening line came from. "Help me, somebody help me. I wonder where I am."

perspexorange wrote:

AdamTate wrote:

Doubts Even Here is magnificent also.

Yeah, really amazing version - really feels like an extension of the approach of Closer

tarbox23 wrote: Just saw all the latest Movement tracks posted to Youtube via the official NewOrder account...

curious if this might backfire and reduce sales of actual product if you can listen to it on youtube

because it sounds fantastic, very clear and remastered or something

never heard the Western Works demos sound so crisp, so used to hearing some crap bootleg cassette I had from the 1980s

Yes, saw that pop up in my youtube feed, I guess it stops piracy in a strange way. As I'm never going to buy the box set (although I did mull it over in the local record store) I ripped the lot to mp3 and listened to them in the car today. Definitely a lot better than some of the scratchy bootlegs I've heard. Thought even after it'd gone through original->youtube->mp3 that movement remastered sounded really good and very punchy in the car.

hello all, it's been a very long time since i've come to post.

so... my girlfriend got me the 'movement' box for christmas. girls rule.

it occurred to me i'd acquired a nice set-up/stereo/system over the years, and never listened to the movement-era recordings on it.

in the car, of course: cds, cassettes, aux cord... whatever.

however, new order cuts from that era rarely get played out when i gig. probably just the peter black version of "temptation" from his 3xlp (WU1101-LP), or the cicada version of "everything's gone green" from a promo cd single (PR015618).

the recordings in this box are brilliant. the extras cd is worth the price of admission. the kicks on those old machines hit so hard and fluid. us girls couldn't help but dance a bit. absolutely wonderful! ("watch yer bassbins, i'm tellin' ya.")

i enjoyed reading this long thread before replying. i love to be schooled. i'll teach the folx who don't know things like "what-version-of-in-a-lonely-place-do-you-have." but whilst reading the thread, i hadn't gotten to the alternative 7" mix of "tempatation." posters mentioned the differences, and i was ready for them. my body knew when it was about 2'05" into the track. listen closely, mto... lol

gonna take a break and check out the dvds. i'll just sit close-up on the floor like when i was a kid and then read the book. maybe the cat will join me.

will post thoughts later.

oooh, i bet those dvds are gonna be ridiculous. xx

Watched Peppermint Lounge a second time. Just brilliant. Possibly even better than the Ukrainian House gig. Or just as good but in a different. Such a vast difference from Hurrah a year or so before.Love how Barney fiddles with the machines and creates some great extras.

prog99 wrote:

Yes, saw that pop up in my youtube feed, I guess it stops piracy in a strange way. As I'm never going to buy the box set (although I did mull it over in the local record store) I ripped the lot to mp3 and listened to them in the car today. Definitely a lot better than some of the scratchy bootlegs I've heard. Thought even after it'd gone through original->youtube->mp3 that movement remastered sounded really good and very punchy in the car.

You ripped all those videos individually? How long did that take? You know this version has leaked online? If you were going to do naughty things, you could have downloaded the lot in MP3 or FLAC in about five minutes!

Debaser wrote:

prog99 wrote:

Yes, saw that pop up in my youtube feed, I guess it stops piracy in a strange way. As I'm never going to buy the box set (although I did mull it over in the local record store) I ripped the lot to mp3 and listened to them in the car today. Definitely a lot better than some of the scratchy bootlegs I've heard. Thought even after it'd gone through original->youtube->mp3 that movement remastered sounded really good and very punchy in the car.

You ripped all those videos individually? How long did that take? You know this version has leaked online? If you were going to do naughty things, you could have downloaded the lot in MP3 or FLAC in about five minutes!

Oh there's a neat little tool to do it. youtube-dl Wasn't going looking for the tracks but as they were on youtube I didn't go looking elsewhere.

Based on the neworder YT channel video, "Truth" still has the clipped last verse vocal, like every other edition of it ever I think. Except possibly FACUS 50, I could have sworn it didn't clip on that, but I haven't spun it again recently to confirm.

Is the album remaster on this release the same remastering as for the 2015 digital reissues (which I bought at the time and are great)

I thought it was the 2015 remaster again.what do you mean by "clipped"?

On Qobuz, it's not available worldwide. Fuck off!

NotAMod wrote: For those interested it looks like digital versions of the remastered 12" singles have hit the usual outlets I.e. iTunes, Spotify, Qobuz...

• Ceremony (2019 Remaster)
• Everything's Gone Green (2019 Remaster)
• Ceremony (Version 2) [2019 Remaster]
• Temptation (2019 Remaster)

If you take these, add in Procession & Temptation (7") from the 2016 mastering of Singles (also done by Frank Arkwright, presumably around the same time?) you basically have a worthy, consistent additional disc which really completes the Definitive Edition, in my opinion. I haven't listened closely enough yet but don't believe there are any differences between the two IALP on the Ceremony versions; they appear to be the same.

Pleased with that, though. To have the remastered 12" in both analogue and digital now...

I guess the only unremastered tracks from this era now then are the 7" versions of 'In A Lonely Place' and 'Hurt' and the alternate 12" of 'In A Lonely Place'.

Which version of 'In A Lonely Place' is on the reissued 12 inches and subsequent downloads - the 'Substance' version or original 1st 'Ceremony' flip side?

Any of those online stores selling the digital versions in lossless quality?

Mr Discography wrote: Which version of 'In A Lonely Place' is on the reissued 12 inches and subsequent downloads - the 'Substance' version or original 1st 'Ceremony' flip side?

The original on both.

The most recent mastering of the 'wrong' IALP mix was released on the RSD 12" (we hadn't found the right tape at that point).

Jcp7 wrote: On Qobuz, it's not available worldwide. Fuck off!

I emailed Qobuz and they kindly responded/said that the digital 12" rights are of course the issue. I asked if they could do anything to make them available for USA and other countries. I hope it happens soon - more sales for NO while there is buzz.

Really wanting that remastered Ceremony 2nd version.

Nothing on Amazon nor Juno.... Soulseek will be my friend for the next months!

Johnny James wrote: The most recent mastering of the 'wrong' IALP mix was released on the RSD 12" (we hadn't found the right tape at that point).

Great to finally have the original version of 'IALP' remastered digitally (I downloaded the CD-quality files of the three 12" inches from Qobuz - all sound fabulous).

However, I just checked my original Factory UK vinyl 'Ceremony' 2nd 12" (blue and white cover) and it's definitely the other version of 'IALP' on that release (i.e. the one on Substance - without the thunderclap when Hooky's bass kicks in). The only redeeming features on my copy are FAC 33 A and FAC 33 B etched into the runout groove, along with 'QI' on both sides and 'This is why events unnerve me' on side A and 'How I wish you were here with me now' on side B (all in capitals). I bought this from HMV in November 1990. What led to the original version being remastered and included on the 2nd 12" and digital release in this instance?

Cheers.

Mr Discography wrote:

Johnny James wrote: The most recent mastering of the 'wrong' IALP mix was released on the RSD 12" (we hadn't found the right tape at that point).

Great to finally have the original version of 'IALP' remastered digitally (I downloaded the CD-quality files of the three 12" inches from Qobuz - all sound fabulous).

However, I just checked my original Factory UK vinyl 'Ceremony' 2nd 12" (blue and white cover) and it's definitely the other version of 'IALP' on that release (i.e. the one on Substance - without the thunderclap when Hooky's bass kicks in). The only redeeming features on my copy are FAC 33 A and FAC 33 B etched into the runout groove, along with 'QI' on both sides and 'This is why events unnerve me' on side A and 'How I wish you were here with me now' on side B (all in capitals). I bought this from HMV in November 1990. What led to the original version being remastered and included on the 2nd 12" and digital release in this instance?

Cheers.

It took me ages to find one of the 2nd 12"s with that version on, most of the ones available throughout the 80s are the later mix (they have 'Townhouse' in the runout). I think it was a re-cut in the late 80s that brought the mistake into play, around the time of Substance when it was also used.

Mr Discography wrote:

Johnny James wrote: However, I just checked my original Factory UK vinyl 'Ceremony' 2nd 12" (blue and white cover) and it's definitely the other version of 'IALP' on that release (i.e. the one on Substance - without the thunderclap when Hooky's bass kicks in). The only redeeming features on my copy are FAC 33 A and FAC 33 B etched into the runout groove, along with 'QI' on both sides and 'This is why events unnerve me' on side A and 'How I wish you were here with me now' on side B (all in capitals). I bought this from HMV in November 1990. What led to the original version being remastered and included on the 2nd 12" and digital release in this instance?

From what I can gather - the original version (also confusingly referred to as "the later mix") - was on all the original early 80s pressings of both the Green and Cream/Blue editions

You say you bought your copy in HMV in 1990 - so this is highly unlikely to be an original pressing - but a later 80's repressing. In fact, from the runout grooves you describe, it's not a pressing that is listed on Discogs. There doesn't appear to be any late 80s pressings listed, I guess because they are hard to identify and only tiny differences. I thought my Cream/Blue pressing was an original, but later discovered it had the Green version of Ceremony on it and was pressed in 1983?!

I'd go so far as to say that the later pressings of Cream/Blue with the Substance mix of IALP are potentially quite rare

Mr Discography wrote: I thought it was the 2015 remaster again.what do you mean by "clipped"?

At around 3:13, at the beginning of the last verse, you hear "strange day", and the word "strange" sounds cut off, like the first syllable is missing - and the other occurences of that verse are "such a strange day", leading me (at least) to think that "such a str-" is what has been cut.

Jonathan wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: I thought it was the 2015 remaster again.what do you mean by "clipped"?

At around 3:13, at the beginning of the last verse, you hear "strange day", and the word "strange" sounds cut off, like the first syllable is missing - and the other occurences of that verse are "such a strange day", leading me (at least) to think that "such a str-" is what has been cut.

See what you mean. Don't think I've heard any other version that doesn't have that oddity, so guess it was originally mixed that way.

I also note that Senses is finally remastered without the first beat or two missing, which is good to hear. I always wondered if Truth had a beat or two missing at the start too, but it sounds the same on these remasters.

NotAMod wrote: For those interested it looks like digital versions of the remastered 12" singles have hit the usual outlets I.e. iTunes, Spotify, Qobuz...

• Ceremony (2019 Remaster)
• Everything's Gone Green (2019 Remaster)
• Ceremony (Version 2) [2019 Remaster]
• Temptation (2019 Remaster)

If you take these, add in Procession & Temptation (7") from the 2016 mastering of Singles (also done by Frank Arkwright, presumably around the same time?) you basically have a worthy, consistent additional disc which really completes the Definitive Edition, in my opinion. I haven't listened closely enough yet but don't believe there are any differences between the two IALP on the Ceremony versions; they appear to be the same.

Pleased with that, though. To have the remastered 12" in both analogue and digital now...

Hundred thanks and cheers to you my friend! I was able to get the lossless files from Qobuz using a proxy service.

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Mr Discography wrote:

Johnny James wrote: However, I just checked my original Factory UK vinyl 'Ceremony' 2nd 12" (blue and white cover) and it's definitely the other version of 'IALP' on that release (i.e. the one on Substance - without the thunderclap when Hooky's bass kicks in). The only redeeming features on my copy are FAC 33 A and FAC 33 B etched into the runout groove, along with 'QI' on both sides and 'This is why events unnerve me' on side A and 'How I wish you were here with me now' on side B (all in capitals). I bought this from HMV in November 1990. What led to the original version being remastered and included on the 2nd 12" and digital release in this instance?

From what I can gather - the original version (also confusingly referred to as "the later mix") - was on all the original early 80s pressings of both the Green and Cream/Blue editions

You say you bought your copy in HMV in 1990 - so this is highly unlikely to be an original pressing - but a later 80's repressing. In fact, from the runout grooves you describe, it's not a pressing that is listed on Discogs. There doesn't appear to be any late 80s pressings listed, I guess because they are hard to identify and only tiny differences. I thought my Cream/Blue pressing was an original, but later discovered it had the Green version of Ceremony on it and was pressed in 1983?!

I'd go so far as to say that the later pressings of Cream/Blue with the Substance mix of IALP are potentially quite rare

Checked out my cream/blue cover.It has the version of IALP without a thunderclap when Hooky's bass comes in and it has How I Wish You Were Here With Me Now in capitals in the run out and FAC33 B and QI.The A side has the second version of Ceremony and This Is Why Events Unnerve Me in capitals in the run out and FAC 33 A and QI.I must have bought this after Substance because i'd never heard the 2nd version of Ceremony til i bought that album on its release in 1987.So this pressing of Ceremony 2nd version/IALP with cream sleeve is quite rare? Or do you mean a cream/blue version with the no thunderclap when Hooky's bass kicks in version of IALP and How I Wish You Were With Me Now in the run out but the original green version of Ceremony is quite rare? I've got a headache now.

And is the quote option misfiring or is it me?

NotAMod wrote: For those interested it looks like digital versions of the remastered 12" singles have hit the usual outlets I.e. iTunes, Spotify, Qobuz...

• Ceremony (2019 Remaster)
• Everything's Gone Green (2019 Remaster)
• Ceremony (Version 2) [2019 Remaster]
• Temptation (2019 Remaster)

.

Thanks for heads up.Purchased them in FLAC though still think download codes should have come with the 12" re releases.And would have been nice to have the back cover artworks too.Gah.

Well, listening to the remaster of the 12" of Temptation.Kind of have passed this version over for a long time but re-appreciating it now.It was always so unusual and unique as far as 12" versions go, or went back then.I mean the 7" is kind of straightforward in it has the intro, then verse, then chorus, instrumental break, then verse, then chorus and so on.But the 12" didn't simply extend all that, it completely rearranged everything.Yeah it's the same lyrics and mostly same instrumentation as the 7" but it's so completely rearranged.Kind of like a film where you start off and progress through thinking why is that bit there? And what's that bit doing there? What's the thinking in that bit doing in that spot? Why is that part repeated? But then towards the end it all starts to make sense;ah, so that's why that bit was there earlier on, those bits were repeated a few times there... and it all finally makes sense and completely works in the finale.There was method in the madness.Quite genius how they worked out how to not simply extend ithe 7" but completely rearrange it in an extended way and figure out how it all worked towards a cumulative effect.It's all about the cumulative effect.Yes i've had a few drinks.

Yep, the 12" of Temptation is immense. I was so pleased when I finally got it on CD (on the '1981-1982' reissue, from Canada, I think), back in the mid-90s.

As you said, it is a bit messy, but somehow all comes together and 'makes sense'.

However much I love the 7" and the 1987 version, this is, to me, the ultimate version of one of my favourite songs of all time. Love Barney's vocals in this version; he sounds much more desperate and on the edge.

Fotzepolitic wrote:

Checked out my cream/blue cover.It has the version of IALP without a thunderclap when Hooky's bass comes in and it has How I Wish You Were Here With Me Now in capitals in the run out and FAC33 B and QI.The A side has the second version of Ceremony and This Is Why Events Unnerve Me in capitals in the run out and FAC 33 A and QI.I must have bought this after Substance because i'd never heard the 2nd version of Ceremony til i bought that album on its release in 1987.So this pressing of Ceremony 2nd version/IALP with cream sleeve is quite rare? Or do you mean a cream/blue version with the no thunderclap when Hooky's bass kicks in version of IALP and How I Wish You Were With Me Now in the run out but the original green version of Ceremony is quite rare? I've got a headache now.

It's proper headache material!

I mean that the cream/blue version which was repressed in the late 80s (post-Substance) with the IALP version that has no thunderclap when Hooky's bass enters - seems to be quite rare

I'm basing that on the fact the groove notations you describe are not listed on any edition in Discogs.

There was a recorded interview with Bernard & Steve on Shaun Keaveney’s afternoon show in 6Music today . Was in 2 parts , the first of which I caught a bit of at work but missed a lot it. Caught all the second part and before which Matt Everett did a quick recap of the first part and seem to confirm there will be a lot more box sets to come and also a live album and release of Decades? Can’t rewind and listen again to the show til after it finishes at 4pm so can’t be sure right now of the details recapped just before the 2nd part of interview.

The show available to listen again now https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0004d2h

First part is at around 43 minutes in and second part around 1 hour 45 mins in.

Listened properly again to the first part and turned out there wasn't actually any mention from Bernard and Steve about more box sets or a live album of the Liam Gillick/Synth orchestra collaboration shows and Decades film but the 6Music guy Matt Everett definitely says before the second part of the interview there will be a live album of the Liam Gillick and synth orchestra shows and includes the Decades doc.Somewhere over the 2 interviews Everett seems to say the whole of the back catalogue will be "reappraised"...