Movement - The Definitive Edition

£120 is ridiculous and seems very steep for 4 discs (1 vinyl, 2 CD, 1 DVD), a book and a box. I will still get one though, obviously.

As someone else pointed out, it's currently £109 at Amazon for the LP box set (I imagine the prize will drop to just under £100 nearer to the time). There are advantages to ordering through Amazon. Firstly, they have their price promise (you pay the cheapest price that the product is advertised for on their site; so if the price increases, you still pay the lower price). Secondly, is the free shipping, which I think they still do (don't they?). I know you have to wait a little longer but it's better than paying £11 postage (was that for the LP & the 12"s, or just the LP?). I have Prime, so ordering through Amazon is no-brainer for me.

That being said, I'm almost tempted to buy the bundle from the website, as £130 seems a better deal (relatively, of course). You get 4 x 12"s for an extra £10. Buying the box from Amazon and the individual 12"s from NewOrder.com would set you back £150.

But, as I've said before, I don't have a turntable, so I'd just be buying them to look at. Which seems a bit pointless. I wish they'd've released more info / pics, i.e. do the 12"s come with download codes? How about original artwork on the labels? Wasn't Temptation embossed on the back? If so, has this been replicated?

Also, it's a trifle annoying that the 7" versions aren't included somewhere on the 12"s. Maybe as downloads only.

However, the DVD material looks absolutely fantastic. I'm going to study the track listings a little more closely and post more here after.

Mr Discography wrote: Wonder if 'Temptation (Alternate 7") is the edited 7 inch version from the 'Something Wild' soundtrack or another take?

That was my thinking too.

Wonder if the Procession rehearsal is the same one from bootlegs that have been circulating for a number of years.

Looking forward to hearing the Cargo demos and the 1st mix of Ceremony.

They've got the date wrong, should be 1st April. £120 for that is shocking. Ouch! Disc 4 looks interesting but Steve has already said the demos are not that different to the released versions - listened to once and never again in my experience. Hopefully also comes with a nice book of pics of Cargo Studios and Ian's melodica.

OK - so let's break the DVD down, as this is where the real goodness is:

New Order – Movement DVD

Live Shows

Hurrah’s, NY 1980

In A Lonely Place Procession Dreams Never End Mesh Truth Cries & Whispers Denial Ceremony

Recorded on 27th September, 1980. Produced, directed and filmed by Merrill Aldighieri

What can I say about this? This is magnificent stuff. Only their fifth NO gig and the band is sans Gillian. Steve singing Procession, Ceremony (verses only, probably, with Hooky doing chorus) & possibly also Cries & Whispers (verses only, with Hooky definitely doing the chorus). That Cries & Whispers chorus only appears on these early live performances. They dropped it for the 12" release.

The clips I've seen of this performance are stunning. Great quality footage of the band in pretty raw form.

The only puzzling thing is 'Denial' being listed. As far as I'm aware, it wasn't played at this gig (I don't think it had been written at this point). Strangely, slicingupeyeballs.com have possibly noticed this and removed it from their report of the track listing.

Peppermint Lounge, NY 1981

In A Lonely Place Dreams Never End Chosen Time ICB Senses Denial Everything’s Gone Green Hurt – instrumental Temptation

This gig appears to be complete. No idea what the quality is going to be like, but I'm looking forward to seeing it.

TV Sessions Granada Studios 1981

Doubts Even Here The Him Procession Senses Denial

This is very odd. As stated earlier in the thread, the band performed two sessions for the 'Celebration' show (10 & 8 songs / takes respectively). The programme only broadcast 6 songs; Dreams Never End (2nd session, 3rd attempt after two aborted ones), ICB (1st session), Chosen Time (1st session, Take 2), Denial (1st session, Take 1), Ceremony (1st session, Take 1) & Truth (1st session, Take 2). Two of the broadcast songs made it the Glasgow DVD (Ceremony & ICB), which also included the other version of Chosen Time that was recorded (1st session, Take 1).

So this new DVD seems to only include tracks that haven't been previously shown. It's possible that the version of Denial is the same as the broadcast one, but it seems more likely that this is the one not broadcast (i.e 2nd session, Take 2). The reason I say this is the order of session 2, which was Dreams Never End, The Him, Procession (Take 2), Senses & Denial (Take 2). The last 4 tracks seem to follow this order.

It seems very odd that they aren't including the actual broadcast songs, although it will be really nice to see the other tracks for once.

Cont'd

Very interested to see the other tracks never aired on Riverside. I’m assuming they’re decent quality , wouldn’t be released otherwise. Same goes for the other footage; Peppermint Lounge, Newcastle, Norwich Pennies etc.

Not sure I’ll get the bundle edition with the 4 12” singles. But I don’t actually own the green cover Ceremony ( have all the others in the bundle) so will probably just buy the re-released green sleeve Ceremony,£10,when it’s released 8th March 2019 and buy the non bundle edition Movement Definitive through Amazon £109 so total expense £120. But then there’s postage cost ( from NewOrder store at least, for the Ceremony re-release unless I buy it elsewhere if that’s possible and cheaper)

Oh god, not this old Ceremony chestnut again. I always thought the green sleeve version without Gillian and which was recorded in New Jersey in September 1980 came first in March 1981 and the cream sleeve version which does feature Gillian came later in September 1981. New Order store seem to be stating the green sleeve has the second version ( Gillian included version and which is on Substance) . I want the green sleeve and with the first version ( New Jersey September 80 version, no Gillian though no disrespect to her) . Or have New Order store mixed up? They appear to be stating the green sleeve has the second version. In summary I want the green sleeve with the first version. I don’t want to buy the green sleeve and find it has the second ( September 81 with Gillian) version .

I believe, if I’m not mistaken, New Order store have got the sleeves the wrong way round..The description below the green sleeve is of the cream sleeve release and states it’s a cream sleeve despite the picture showing the green sleeve.

TV Sessions (Cont'd)

BBC Riverside 1982 Temptation Chosen Time Procession Hurt – instrumental Senses Denial In A Lonely Place

This appears to be complete. Only the first two tracks were shown at the time, so being able to see all the tracks that weren't broadcast is going to be great. I loved the two tracks shown, so am thrilled to see this.

Gillian at her most goth too!.

Extras

1. Ceremony CoManCHE Student Union

This footage, filmed on 06/02/81, wass included on the 'A Factory Video' VHS and is a nice inclusion here. It's bit of a shame that the other track from this video (In A Lonely Place, Imperial Cinema, Birmingham, 23/01/82) isn't included.

2. In A Lonely Place Toronto 1981

This is presumably from 15/11/81. I'm a bit perplexed about this. I didn't know the gig was filmed. Also, it's placement here, just after Ceremony at Comanche, makes me wonder if this is actually the Imperial Cinema footage from 'A Factory Video' and has just been mislabelled. Perhaps the original Factory video was mislabelled instead. I have a note that there was an item on Toronto TV back in 1981, but I have never seen this. It's therefore possible that the gig was filmed and bits were broadcast on Canadian TV. Who knows? We'll find out in April.

3. Temptation Soul Kitchen, Newcastle 1982

This is presumably from 11/03/82. I didn't know this was filmed either.

4. Hurt Le Palace, Paris 1982
5. Procession Le Palace, Paris 1982

I have the first three and half tracks of this gig on a murky bootleg (In A Lonely Place, Temptation, Chosen Time and half of Truth). The footage was taken in the audience and seems to be amateur. It seems a little unlikely that the new DVD will include audience footage, so a pro-shot video probably exists. I'm not sure why only the two tracks above were selected. Presumably these 'extra' tracks are just that; bonuses to the two main gigs and two TV shows included on the DVD.

Chosen Time Pennies 1982

This is presumably from 24/05/82. I didn't know this had been recorded.

Truth The Haçienda 1983

This is presumably from 26/01/83. I didn't know this was filmed but it would make sense that it was. Most of the band's gigs at this venue appear to have been filmed. For instance the 20/07/83 gig was filmed and shown on 'Play At Home'.

ICB Minneapolis 1983

This 29/06/83 gig has been bootlegged for years. This is 'pro' footage and is a welcome addition to the new DVD. I only wish more of the gig had been included. Maybe we'll see some of the Power Corruption & Lies tracks from this gig on that box set.

Cont'd

Cont'd

So what's not included?:

'The Factory Complication' tracks (Everything's Gone Green & Truth from L'Ancienne Belgique) 'Taras Shevchenko' 'A Factory Video' (In A Lonely Place from Imperial Cinema, Birmingham) 'RockAmerica' (Ceremony from the 1981 US tour) 'Celebration ' (the missing tracks, as mentioned above) Glastonbury 1981 (from the Glasgow DVD, plus other footage if this exists) Rome 1982 (from the Glasgow DVD, plus other footage if this exists) Hal 4, Rotterdam (clips of gig and backstage exist) SO36, Berlin (the complete gig has been circulating for years; excellent pro footage) Rochdale 1981 (audience clip of Ceremony; possibly other footage exists) Any other footage from Toronto, Newcastle, Le Palace, Pennies, The Haçienda and Minneapolis (see above).

But these are minor quibbles. I am LOVING what's being included. April can't come soon enough!

Fotzepolitic wrote: Oh god, not this old Ceremony chestnut again. I always thought the green sleeve version without Gillian and which was recorded in New Jersey in September 1980 came first in March 1981 and the cream sleeve version which does feature Gillian came later in September 1981. New Order store seem to be stating the green sleeve has the second version ( Gillian included version and which is on Substance) . I want the green sleeve and with the first version ( New Jersey September 80 version, no Gillian though no disrespect to her) . Or have New Order store mixed up? They appear to be stating the green sleeve has the second version. In summary I want the green sleeve with the first version. I don’t want to buy the green sleeve and find it has the second ( September 81 with Gillian) version .

Yeah. that's certainly what I thought too. As I understand it, the green sleeve was released first and this included the original three-piece version. The cream / blue stripe sleeve came later. I think where the main confusion lies is that both sleeves eventually housed different versions. From Dennis' excellent discography:

"The thing is that the blue stripe cover went through different girations, and three versions exist. First, it was the re-recorded version, and Ceremony's grooves take the whole side. It was withdrawn, and then re-released with the original 3-piece version. Eventually, that was stopped, and the re-recorded version was used again. This time, the grooves span less space. The matrix number also has different values, with A1 and A2 (between the two re-recorded versions). There are also versions of the green cover with the re-recorded version. The only way to tell without playing the record, is to look at the run-off groove notations, as different lyrics are quoted."

So there's only one thing for it, Fotz; you'll have to buy the bundle! Just to be on the safe side.

Have digested it all a bit more now.£120 is a lot more than i thought it'd be.I was thinking it would be in the £70-£80 ball park even with the expected extras like the book.I guess i'll still fork out for it though.The amount of money i've spent on New Order over the years...phew. But i've spent peanuts compared to some.

I've got very brief clips of Hurrah and they've got stuff like "SONG 1" plastered all over them so looking forward to viewing them in full properly.Can't recall completely what i've seen of Celebration.I know i've seen Ceremony and one or two others that were on the Glasgow DVD and maybe others i've seen on YouTube.I did get a bit lost with all your details of that, perspexorange, in your listing of the various takes and which were aired/weren't aired etc. But i can see their point in not putting stuff on that's already been released on the Glasgow DVD (and DVD space to be taken into consideration, though you could argue they could have done a second DVD for the box but that's all a bit too much) .I'm satisfied they're filling up the DVD with stuff like the rest of the previously unaired songs from Riverside and stuff like Norwich 82.Really curious to see the Peppermint Lounge footage and indeed what kind of quality it is.Think i've watched most of the Minneapolis footage on YouTube (that's the First Avenue gig right?) Wonder if any clean up of the footage on the DVD was needed, i expect some of it required work?

I have the Western Works demos but not the Cargo stuff (at least i don't think i have)

Must have been quite a lot of work compiling this thing.Do they have to buy rights, for example, the Riverside BBC stuff? Did they have to pay a big wad to the lady that was keeping the Hurrah footage all to herself?

Movement was never my favourite NO album, not even in top 3.But i've always liked the songs live so the DVD is the main thing swaying it for me.Hopefully the included book will be a treat for the eyes too (as long as there isn't too much rambling by Morely and/or Savage).

NotAMod wrote: Absolutely brilliant to hear.

I can vouch that many have worked diligently (James Z , et al) on this edition, and those that will be forthcoming. The project has been brewing for several years. Getting the Hurrahs and Western Works stuff on there is a small miracle frankly, along with everything else - many many hoops to pass through.

Should be a stunning package - well worth the $$ - and definitive indeed.

Dennis Remmer wrote:

NotAMod wrote: Absolutely brilliant to hear.

I can vouch that many have worked diligently (James Z , et al) on this edition, and those that will be forthcoming. The project has been brewing for several years. Getting the Hurrahs and Western Works stuff on there is a small miracle frankly, along with everything else - many many hoops to pass through.

Should be a stunning package - well worth the $$ - and definitive indeed.

I noticed that the Hurrah’s footage is labelled on every website as “Produced, directed and filmed by Merrill Aldighieri” who, I believe, was the DJ at the club and who previously had the snippets on her YouTube page.

I’m guessing that part of the deal was to include her name on any promotion for the set. Not that I blame her, I guess. I just hope she wasn’t too forceful and held out for a lot of money. This might be part of the reason for the high price tag, I guess (Warners trying to recoup some of their outlay). However, I really have no idea how these sort of things work, so I’m probably wrong.

Either way, I’m just thrilled that we’re getting the stuff. Many thanks to all involved if they read this message.

Oh, and Dennis, it looks like you might have to change your blog name to ‘NewOrderTracks: Ceremony to Homage’.

perspexorange wrote:

New Order – Movement DVD

Live Shows

Hurrah’s, NY 1980

In A Lonely Place Procession Dreams Never End Mesh Truth Cries & Whispers Denial Ceremony

Recorded on 27th September, 1980. Produced, directed and filmed by Merrill Aldighieri

What can I say about this? This is magnificent stuff. Only their fifth NO gig and the band is sans Gillian. Steve singing Procession, Ceremony (verses only, probably, with Hooky doing chorus) & possibly also Cries & Whispers (verses only, with Hooky definitely doing the chorus). That Cries & Whispers chorus only appears on these early live performances. They dropped it for the 12" release.

The clips I've seen of this performance are stunning. Great quality footage of the band in pretty raw form.

The only puzzling thing is 'Denial' being listed. As far as I'm aware, it wasn't played at this gig (I don't think it had been written at this point). Strangely, slicingupeyeballs.com have possibly noticed this and removed it from their report of the track listing.

Denial is definitely NOT on the video, it's an error that crept in on the press sheet and wasn't picked up.

Mr Discography wrote: Initial comments/observations:

• Tracklist for Ceremony 12"s make reference to "Version 1" and "Version 2" of 'Ceremony' but not for 'In A Lonely Place'. There are two, subtly different versions of this B-side on both releases (more synthesised thunder clap effects on the second version). Wonder if this is an oversight, or will one version erroneously appear on both twelve inches?

In A Lonely Place is the proper and correct 'final' mix that always should have been on there, (re-)released for the first time since the 80s.

That other version that appeared on Substance and on some re-cut vinyl singles (and various releases since) was a slightly earlier take used in error, probably due to the original master being mislaid. This master has been found/recovered now.

perspexorange wrote: Cont'd

'RockAmerica' (Ceremony from the 1981 US tour)

This appears to be the CoManCHE footage, which is on there. Looks like you've commented on this video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhW55vb3gbo

£40 or £50 for this would seem expensive, £120 : they're just taking the piss.

OK so its not the sort of thing that is going to sell thousands and thousands of copies to easily recoup their costs but there is no justification for those sort of prices. If they do the same with all of their other albums, you're talking about the best part of a grand to get the complete set. I'll stick to the double CD versions I already have.

Johnny James wrote:

perspexorange wrote: Cont'd

'RockAmerica' (Ceremony from the 1981 US tour)

This appears to be the CoManCHE footage, which is on there. Looks like you've commented on this video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhW55vb3gbo

So I did. I forget my own name sometimes.

So that RockAmerica footage is the same as on ‘A Factory Video’, i.e. the CoManCHE gig?

I’m not by my videos at the moment, so can’t check. Always assumed that the RockAmerica footage was taken during the US tour. Never thought to check to see if it was the same as the Factory Video footage.

Motherwell Ordah wrote: Tracklisting here

https://www.uncut.co.uk/news/new-order-always-future-108692/amp

“It’s always been about the future.” Hilarious. Great tracklisting but for 120 quid...

It's worth £120 for Hurt at Riverside and Paris

Digi Mike wrote: It's worth £120 for Hurt at Riverside and Paris

There's also a Hurt (Instrumental) on Peppermint Lounge, and it segues into Temptation.

Johnny James wrote:

Digi Mike wrote: It's worth £120 for Hurt at Riverside and Paris

There's also a Hurt (Instrumental) on Peppermint Lounge, and it segues into Temptation.

Nice. Can’t bloody wait.

Anyone know if these boxed sets will appear on iTunes, Amazon Music, etc.?

I've pre-ordered the £110 Amazon version (to avoid the shipping costs), and hope the cost will drop or alternative cheaper variants of the set become available (i.e. one without the vinyl and a non-hardback version of the book). However, I'd happily cancel this pre-order if an alternative is to buy just the bonus CD and DVD content as digital files individually on iTunes (as long as they don't make it 'Album Only' where you have to buy the whole lot for a fortune).

I normally always buy physical copies of New Order stuff to get the best possible CD audio quality, but given the huge cost of this set, I'd be willing to compromise for once to save a few quid - plus I only have a small house and am unlikely to have the shelf space to store the eventual complete set of 'Definitive Editions'.

Are we likely to see these available as paid downloads?

Mr Discography wrote: Anyone know if these boxed sets will appear on iTunes, Amazon Music, etc.?

However, I'd happily cancel this pre-order if an alternative is to buy just the bonus CD and DVD content as digital files individually on iTunes (as long as they don't make it 'Album Only' where you have to buy the whole lot for a fortune).

I normally always buy physical copies of New Order stuff to get the best possible CD audio quality, but given the huge cost of this set, I'd be willing to compromise for once to save a few quid - plus I only have a small house and am unlikely to have the shelf space to store the eventual complete set of 'Definitive Editions'.

Are we likely to see these available as paid downloads?

Paid downloads: I hope so. Good point about the physical space issues. I'm not re-buying stuff I already have but would pay for the bonus cd (demos).

Not fussed about the live DVD or book. The excellent 'From Heaven to Heaven' book would be a good companion piece for this. And for £120 I'd want The Beach Club backing tapes, ha. Dick Turpin levels of extortion (if you are willing to pay it).

That’s me short of over 100 quid. Seems it has to be done!

Dennis Remmer wrote:

I can vouch that many have worked diligently (James Z , et al) on this edition,

Is James Z aka JS Zeiter who remixed Singularity? Is this the Forum's very own Johnny James, or am I making masive leaps in an attempt to connect dots here?

Debaser wrote:

Dennis Remmer wrote:

I can vouch that many have worked diligently (James Z , et al) on this edition,

Is James Z aka JS Zeiter who remixed Singularity? Is this the Forum's very own Johnny James, or am I making masive leaps in an attempt to connect dots here?

I had the same thoughts as these last night. Indeed i spoke to DIGI MIKE at length about this. Johnny James has always brought a superb wealth of knowledge to these forums. The new release of MOVEMENT is looking very tempting. £120 is a bit steep and i have not had the collecting bug for years. But i may have to make an effort to buy this. Mike is excited and some cool members have been offering their thoughts on this and very positive vibes all round. SLIGHT MOVEMENT HERE..

Regards ROCKET MICK

Debaser wrote: Is James Z aka JS Zeiter

Yes

perspexorange wrote:

Johnny James wrote:

perspexorange wrote: Cont'd

'RockAmerica' (Ceremony from the 1981 US tour)

This appears to be the CoManCHE footage, which is on there. Looks like you've commented on this video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhW55vb3gbo

So I did. I forget my own name sometimes.

So that RockAmerica footage is the same as on ‘A Factory Video’, i.e. the CoManCHE gig?

I’m not by my videos at the moment, so can’t check. Always assumed that the RockAmerica footage was taken during the US tour. Never thought to check to see if it was the same as the Factory Video footage.

Just checked the footage. You’re right, Johnny; the RockAmerica footage of Ceremony is the same as that on ‘A Factory Video’, i.e. the CoManCHE footage. Never noticed that before. Apologies.

When I twigged this was a proper retread and not just a pipe dream / Londonesque rip-off, I was in two minds - but that price tag clinched it. 120 quid on a glorified take on their least rewarding album, when it'll all be on Youtube sooner or later anyway... The only actual track I ain't already bought and done to deah is RUReady, which is just a pisstake singalong. Pass. If this really is the way forward, fans're gonna have to do some serious accounting.

People moaning about the cost PAH. As a friend just said you'd pay more than £120 to see New Order in the UK after Ticket, Travel, Drinks, Food and a merchandise purchase, plus you'd have to endure WFTSC (mind you that is a good song for a piss break), and what will you have - a ticket stub and memories of Barney's flat voice, with the box set you will have an item to treasure and footage of when they were truly great. it was great seeing the early gigs, now we stare at Gillian on her knitting machine and the music coming of a MAC BOOK Pro - how times have changed