Movement - The Definitive Edition

Dennis Remmer wrote:

Debaser wrote: Is James Z aka JS Zeiter

Yes

A-ha! Well, Mr 'Johnny' James Zeiter, what was it like seeing comments about your remix by fellow forumites who didn't know that you were JS Zeiter? Admittedly there weren't that many comments, probably because people were starting to hit remix fatigue by the time Singularity came out.

But I found mine on the Singularity thread, and funnily enough, I'm kinda quoting you at the time:

Debaser wrote:

Johnny James wrote: You can skip through the tracks better here: https://bleep.com/release/70752-new-order-singularity

Ah yes, the previews are twice as long as the amazon ones. Reeder's individuality mix sounds promising, and the Zeiter mixes sound like proper dancefloor material. Looking forward to these.

Debaser wrote:

Dennis Remmer wrote:

Debaser wrote: Is James Z aka JS Zeiter

Yes

A-ha! Well, Mr 'Johnny' James Zeiter, what was it like seeing comments about your remix by fellow forumites who didn't know that you were JS Zeiter? Admittedly there weren't that many comments, probably because people were starting to hit remix fatigue by the time Singularity came out.

But I found mine on the Singularity thread, and funnily enough, I'm kinda quoting you at the time:

Debaser wrote:

Johnny James wrote: You can skip through the tracks better here: https://bleep.com/release/70752-new-order-singularity

Ah yes, the previews are twice as long as the amazon ones. Reeder's individuality mix sounds promising, and the Zeiter mixes sound like proper dancefloor material. Looking forward to these.

Ha ha, I must admit there weren't too many comments as the remix didn't feature in the official streams. Just glad it wasn't all negative.

Record Store Day 2018 in Manchester Vinyl Exchange (18 Oldham Street) “The day acts as a good chance to show off the shop to people who may not usually frequent the business,” said co-owner James Zeiter.

VINYL EXCHANGE LIMITED

perspexorange wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Wonder if 'Temptation (Alternate 7") is the edited 7 inch version from the 'Something Wild' soundtrack or another take?

That was my thinking too.

Wonder if the Procession rehearsal is the same one from bootlegs that have been circulating for a number of years.

Temptation is another version done at the same early 82 Advision session as the released version, not radically different by the way.

Procession is part of a rehearsal that appears to be a run through of the set they were preparing for the Sept 80 tour (so with drum machine).

Baggie Boiler wrote: People moaning about the cost PAH. As a friend just said you'd pay more than £120 to see New Order in the UK after Ticket, Travel, Drinks, Food and a merchandise purchase, plus you'd have to endure WFTSC (mind you that is a good song for a piss break), and what will you have - a ticket stub and memories of Barney's flat voice, with the box set you will have an item to treasure and footage of when they were truly great. it was great seeing the early gigs, now we stare at Gillian on her knitting machine and the music coming of a MAC BOOK Pro - how times have changed

Gigs are crazily expensive. After the tix, travel, accommodation etc you'd pay well over 120 quid... But I'm not paying so much for a tarted-up version of an album that wasn't too hot in the first place. Next year the Spice Girls are back so I have a tight music budget. If this is their '''new''' project, I'm glad I'm no longer a completist. And if you still are, I'd recommend auctioning your house.

digital download at reasonable cost or GTFO (yes bought MC as HD download). don't even have a cd/dvd player in my pc anymore. local musician friends have given me cds and I have to take them into work to rip them - then bin the cds. just say no to wasted plastic.

but also this is just the start. even if they just go to republic thats £750 for stuff to fill up your house.

Currently £90 on Amazon.........

Col72 wrote: Currently £90 on Amazon.........

Yep. Looking much better at that price.

Lock in your ‘guaranteed lowest price’ pre-order now, folks. You can always cancel closer to the time if you decide against it. This way, you get the cheaper price, if it does go up again.

Wouldn’t surprise me if it gets a further cut, down to £80-£85.

Still, can’t wait...

Col72 wrote: Currently £90 on Amazon.........

If you're ordering from outside of the EU, VAT is removed from the total price upon checkout. With shipping to the United States, my Amazon UK order came to just £78.85 ($100). Not counting the hardbound book, that puts each piece of media at $25 which is tolerable for me.

-Mike

Very happy with this re-edition which seems promising, esp. for the unreleased video material.

Yet, there are some minor missed opportunities imo:

• I'd prefer to have the 12" singles inside the Movement boxset, or at least to have them packaged in another box (like Depeche Mode's 12" singles re-editions)
• It would have been nice to have the Procession 7" single re-edited here as well for the sake of completeness (but with which sleeve colour?).

Yep. I’d have been happier if they’d included the 12”s within the set. The DM boxes look great.

To be honest, I’d have preferred that they hadn’t mixed the formats; have one vinyl only set and one CD only set. Would’ve been nice for the CD set (and possibly the vinyl set) to have included an extra CD or two featuring all officially released single versions (7”, 12” etc.) and, maybe, the Peel Session too.

But these are just minor quibbles. That DVD just looks pure gold, and I quite like the look of the demos disc. I’m hoping that the demo version of Cries & Whispers is more like the early version that the band played in those early gigs. Just be nice to hear something a bit different.

That Hurrah’s gig footage is going to be immense (I know, I know - I keep going on about it. I’m just excited!)

perspexorange wrote: ... The DM boxes look great.

I've purchased the first 4 and they do look great indeed. Special mention for the artwork. My only minor regrets are 1) they didn't foresee some additional space to insert the albums. It's good they're not selling the boxes with the albums, as those have been available for quite a long time now and many boxset buyers probably already have them, but they could have put some kind of cardboard placeholder; and 2) I would have loved to see these re-edited vinyl in the same color as the original limited color vinyl editions (when those existed) rather than plain black. Sorry, it's just me being anal

To be honest, I’d have preferred that they hadn’t mixed the formats; have one vinyl only set and one CD only set. Would’ve been nice for the CD set (and possibly the vinyl set) to have included an extra CD or two featuring all officially released single versions (7”, 12” etc.) and, maybe, the Peel Session too. But these are just minor quibbles. That DVD just looks pure gold, and I quite like the look of the demos disc. I’m hoping that the demo version of Cries & Whispers is more like the early version that the band played in those early gigs. Just be nice to hear something a bit different.

That Hurrah’s gig footage is going to be immense (I know, I know - I keep going on about it. I’m just excited!)

Minor quibbles indeed, and I'm excited as well!

Just been having a thought about the book. Here's hoping there's a lot of photos from back in the day.

I'd love to see a photo of 'The Inadequates'. Wonder if anyone ever took one.

Further price dip to £89.39 for the box set on Amazon UK. They also now have a packshot showing the contents of the box.

-Mike

steinomite wrote: Further price dip to £89.39 for the box set on Amazon UK. They also now have a packshot showing the contents of the box.

-Mike

Thanks for the heads up on the pictures.

Looks pretty nice.

Looks like a new white inner sleeve with that anvil logo.Not sure if that was ever previously available.My vinyl copy just has a see through plastic inner which has rounded corners at the bottom and which was always difficult to get back in the outer sleeve without it scrunching up.

I'll be interested to see what the book has in it.DVD will be the highlight for me.

Gave my old copy of Movement a spin the other day.It still has its moments but still feel it could have been so much better with a different production.The live versions from the era were easily superior.Doubts Even Here still great though, probably my favourite from the album.

Ceremony first version with green sleeve will be the only one of the re released singles i'll buy, don't have that one.That's of course if NewOrder store don't mess up and send me the second version.Or the first version but in the second version sleeve.Or the second version but in the first version sleeve.

Fotzepolitic wrote: That's of course if NewOrder store don't mess up and send me the second version.Or the first version but in the second version sleeve.Or the second version but in the first version sleeve.

Talking of 'Ceremony' confusion, I've noticed Apple Music keeps messing up my library on my iPhone with this track. Virtually all instances of the 2nd version of this track, if I try to play them on my iPhone, it plays the 1st version (even though its keeps my labelling, i.e. it plays the 1st version but calls to 2nd version). It messes up on 'Substance', 'International', the 'Recycle' remaster and another compilation that I have.

It's fine on my Mac iTunes library, as I have hard copies of the songs stored on there. It's only a problem when I try to stream my library, via Apple Music, on my iPhone. The solution would be to sync the hard copies to my device, but who can be arsed with doing that these days? (I haven't synced my iPhone in about three years).

It all adds to the confusion. In my opinion, the two versions are fairly difficult to tell the differences anyway, unless you have the two to listen to together. I can only imagine how confusing it must be for new fans, when Apple Music confuse the two.

Edit - just noticed that the 2nd version plays correctly on the 'Movement' Deluxe Edition. I'll copy that one to my playlists.

perspexorange wrote:

Talking of 'Ceremony' confusion, I've noticed Apple Music keeps messing up my library on my iPhone with this track. Virtually all instances of the 2nd version of this track, if I try to play them on my iPhone, it plays the 1st version (even though its keeps my labelling, i.e. it plays the 1st version but calls to 2nd version). It messes up on 'Substance', 'International', the 'Recycle' remaster and another compilation that I have.

It's fine on my Mac iTunes library, as I have hard copies of the songs stored on there. It's only a problem when I try to stream my library, via Apple Music, on my iPhone. The solution would be to sync the hard copies to my device, but who can be arsed with doing that these days? (I haven't synced my iPhone in about three years).

It all adds to the confusion. In my opinion, the two versions are fairly difficult to tell the differences anyway, unless you have the two to listen to together. I can only imagine how confusing it must be

Eh? You’re joking. IMHO there’s a massive difference between the two. Basically the same structure yes but there’s a massive difference between them in sound, feel and vibe. This argument is as old as time though. The first version is grand, has a real thump to the bass drum and drums, is energetic and is really alive. The second version I always found very flat and lifeless,Bernard’s vocals just don’t have that incredible mixture of vulnerable yet commanding tone that he nailed on the first version. The guitars sear and chime magically.Interestingly though I seem to recall from old threads on the old forum debating the two’s differences that most people seem to prefer the lifeless second version. So I’ve always felt in a minority that easily prefers the first version.

I suppose what I am saying is, I can hear the differences and could certainly tell which one was which if I was to have them both played blind to me, one after the other.

However, if the track comes up on random on my iPhone / radio etc., I sometimes struggle to say with any certainty which version is playing. In fact it's one of those things that I do when the track comes on - 'guess which version it is without looking'. 7 out of 10 times, I get it right. 3 out of 10 times, I get annoyed with myself for not recognising it and feel like a bloody New Order amateur.

Of course, the problem with Apple Music mixing up the two versions hasn't helped. It's probably contributed to my confusion somewhat, with me saying 'oh yes, this is definitely the first version', checking my iPhone and seeing the '2nd version' label (even though it is the 1st version!) and then doubting myself.

There's only one thing for it - I need to listen to both of them again, multiple times. No hardship!

perspexorange wrote: I suppose what I am saying is, I can hear the differences and could certainly tell which one was which if I was to have them both played blind to me, one after the other.

However, if the track comes up on random on my iPhone / radio etc., I sometimes struggle to say with any certainty which version is playing. In fact it's one of those things that I do when the track comes on - 'guess which version it is without looking'. 7 out of 10 times, I get it right. 3 out of 10 times, I get annoyed with myself for not recognising it and feel like a bloody New Order amateur.

Of course, the problem with Apple Music mixing up the two versions hasn't helped. It's probably contributed to my confusion somewhat, with me saying 'oh yes, this is definitely the first version', checking my iPhone and seeing the '2nd version' label (even though it is the 1st version!) and then doubting myself.

There's only one thing for it - I need to listen to both of them again, multiple times. No hardship!

Ah ok I can see your point.

The first version has always been so imprinted in my memory because that’s all I’d ever known for many years. I bought the 7” with the gold sleeve when I first starting buying New Order stuff in 1983/84. It wasn’t until I bought Substance in 1987 that I heard the second version. I’d never got round to buying the cream sleeve with the second version so the Substance was the first time I ever heard it. Always wished they’d have put the first version on Substance instead. But again , i recall from old forum discussions that I was in a small minority that felt that way. People eh? I think the reasoning behind putting the second version on Substance was that it included Gillian and so represented the whole band as the rest of the album did.

Yeah, that was my understanding too.

I have a couple of 'Substance' playlists ('A-Sides' and 'B-Sides') that restores the original 'Ceremony' back to its rightful place.

I've always wanted the band to release a modified version of 'Substance' that really reflects the bands 12" history, without the liberties previously taken back in 1987.

The changes I would make:

1. Replace the 2nd version of 'Ceremony' with the original;
2. Include 'Procession' as an 'A-Side' alongside 'EGG';
3. Replace the '87 version of 'Temptation' and 'Confusion' with the original 12" versions;
4. Include 'Murder' as an 'A-Side';
5. Replace the edits of 'Hurt', 'The Perfect Kiss', 'Sub-Culture' and 'Shellshock' with the unedited 12" versions;
6. Add the missing 'b-side' omitted from the CD version (Mesh);
7. Add the missing b-side remixes omitted from the CD version ('The Perfect Pit', 'Dub-Vulture', 'Shellcock', 'Bizarre Dub Triangle')
8. Add the post '87 Factory-era singles (Touched... 12", Blue Monday '88 12", Fine Time 12", Round & Round 12", Run 2 12" and World In Motion 12")
9. Add the post '87 Factory-era 12" b-sides (Touched...Dub 12", Beach Buggy 12", Don't Do It, Best & Marsh 12", & M T O)

Perhaps, as 'bonus tracks', they could add:

a) the re-recorded 'Ceremony'; b) the three '87 versions ('Temptation', 'Confusion' and 'Confusion Dub '87') c) Finally, maybe include a selection of the 12"R tracks (such as 'True Faith' 12"R, ' 'True Dub', 'Paradise' (Robert Racic Mix), 'Fine Time' (Silk Mix, Messed Around Mix', Fine Line), 'Round & Round (12" Mix, Club Mix, Detroit Mix) & 'World In Motion' (Subbuteo Mix, Subbuteo Dub, Carabinieri Mix, No Alla Violenza Mix).

It's a pipe dream, but I'd love to see something like that. Who knows, maybe they'll release an expanded set as part of the (hopefully ongoing) 're-release project'.

It'd be great if 'Substance' gets a re-release as part of these deluxe editions as it's such an iconic compilation.

Only change I'd want to a re-released 'Substance' is to restore the full length 'Perfect Kiss' on the CD version (the unedited 12" appeared on the vinyl version after all). I'd be happy to keep the other tracks the same as the original 1987 release ('Subculture' and 'Shellshock' in their full length 12" versions would drag on a bit, so stick to the cropped versions of those please).

It's my favourite album and was my introduction to New Order. To tweak it it any more would move it further away from what it represented to me back then, so keep the second 'Ceremony' and re-recorded 'Temptation' and 'Confusion'.

Perhaps a re-released version could stretch the B-sides and dubs out over 2 CDs though - to include everything on the original cassette 2, 'Murder' and maybe a few other rarities or bonus tracks. Any DVD could include one of the live sets from the time when they played 'Substance' in order, if any recordings exist (think one of these was at Wembley Arena).

Mr Discography wrote: It'd be great if 'Substance' gets a re-release as part of these deluxe editions as it's such an iconic compilation.

Only change I'd want to a re-released 'Substance' is to restore the full length 'Perfect Kiss' on the CD version (the unedited 12" appeared on the vinyl version after all). I'd be happy to keep the other tracks the same as the original 1987 release ('Subculture' and 'Shellshock' in their full length 12" versions would drag on a bit, so stick to the cropped versions of those please).

It's my favourite album and was my introduction to New Order. To tweak it it any more would move it further away from what it represented to me back then, so keep the second 'Ceremony' and re-recorded 'Temptation' and 'Confusion'.

Perhaps a re-released version could stretch the B-sides and dubs out over 2 CDs though - to include everything on the original cassette 2, 'Murder' and maybe a few other rarities or bonus tracks. Any DVD could include one of the live sets from the time when they played 'Substance' in order, if any recordings exist (think one of these was at Wembley Arena).

I can certainly see your point about keeping the edits of Sub-Culture and Shellshock. The latter goes on alarmingly and repeats the 'it's never enough' refrain (seemingly) ad infinitum. That being said, I don't mind either 'full length' track and I'd rather they were on there for consistency.

Presumably, even though they do 'go on a bit', the reason for the edits was to fit on two discs. The intention was, as stated by Wilson, to have all of the band's 12"s in one place. I guess they just chose those two (plus, to a lesser extent, Hurt and The Perfect Kiss) as being ones that would easily accommodate cuts without harming them (probably even enhancing them too!).

The one thing that I don't like about the 'Shellshock' Substance edit was that it excised one of the verses. In fact, for the first few years of my fandom, I had no idea about this 'other' verse. I didn't own the 12" and the verse wasn't on the 7", the video version or Substance (all of which I knew pretty well). Back in the day, I had no idea that certain tracks were edited on Substance; I always assumed that all 12"s were intact on that LP. I therefore never hunted down the 12"s at the time (apart from Temptation and Confusion, which I knew had been re-recorded).

It wasn't until I bought the Pretty In Pink soundtrack a few years later that I heard the extra verse, which came as a rather nice shock. To this day, that version is the definitive mix for me; being a nice balance between song and mix, with all lyrics intact and subdued use of the aforementioned 'refrain'.

I don't think I heard the full 12" until the Recycle project, although I could be wrong.

small note,

I wonder if the re-issue of the temptation 12" will have an embossed cover like the original.

later -1

Well you can't possibly please everyone. TODAY IN MUSIC HISTORY 13 years, 4 months and a bit ago, New Order don't release a compilation.

Have pre-ordered the box from Amazon,£89.34.Also pre-ordered the Ceremony first version re-issue vinyl,£10.22.

Also pre-ordered Steve's Record Play Pause book, £15.99 ( i see the release has been put back to May though),

Some posting and packing costs which i can't recall how much right now but a help that the money won't won't be taken from my account til the items are sent and seeing as one will be in March (Ceremony vinyl), one in April (Movement box) and one in May (Steve book) the outgoings will be staggered.

[TWITTER]1089832877670453248[/TWITTER]

EDIT: To save you jumping through hoops, just play this:

Yeah - just noticed this appearing in my YouTube feed. Nice to see the official channel releasing stuff like this.

Wonderful footage. Hope they post more.

I remember first seeing that clip sometime in late 80s when I recieved a VHS full of NO stuff through a mail order ad in NME and I actually put my hand over my eyes when that bloody bright stage light in the clip appeared , doh. Ha ha