Movement - The Definitive Edition

That's quite funny, po, I was in Rough Trade East on Saturday and picked up a copy of Ceremony (£12) and seriously thought about buying it too. I also do not have a turntable (anymore). Lovely hardcore sleeve, maybe even better (sturdier) than the original, as I recall it.

Lucky you to have an hmv nearby, for browsing.

Benj65 wrote: That's quite funny, po, I was in Rough Trade East on Saturday and picked up a copy of Ceremony (£12) and seriously thought about buying it too. I also do not have a turntable (anymore). Lovely hardcore sleeve, maybe even better (sturdier) than the original, as I recall it.

Lucky you to have an hmv nearby, for browsing.

Glad I’m not alone in having no willpower (or turntable). 😊

I managed to resist the previous week, when there were just the two Ceremony reissues, but couldn’t handle seeing all three of them there this week, all pristine and beautiful.

Someone was posting on one of the Facebook groups yesterday that the EGG sleeve and labels have changed.

They’ve changed the track-listing order to presumably correct the Mesh / Cries and Whispers error.

But they’ve also changed the orientation of the front design. The line now starts in the top left and descends to the bottom right corner. Previously, it started in the bottom left corner and ascended to the top right corner.

Deliberate or another balls-up?

I’m going with the latter.

Annoying but I’m not too p’d off. It’s still rather nice.

perspexorange wrote:

Someone was posting on one of the Facebook groups yesterday that the EGG sleeve and labels have changed.

They’ve changed the track-listing order to presumably correct the Mesh / Cries and Whispers error.

But they’ve also changed the orientation of the front design. The line now starts in the top left and descends to the bottom right corner. Previously, it started in the bottom left corner and ascended to the top right corner.

Deliberate or another balls-up?

I’m going with the latter.

Annoying but I’m not too p’d off. It’s still rather nice.

Oh you’re right. Just looked at images online and the diagonal is indeed different to the original and the Mesh and Cries And Wispers track list is corrected. Possibly a balls up with the diagonal or a clever ploy so people like me will buy it? Tempted now. I’m assuming the inner sleeve is also now like the Ceremony re issue with the more robust white card with the anvil logo at the bottom on both sides rather than plain paper sleeve. I’m just glad they didn’t balls up the Ceremony versions and sleeves.

Fotzepolitic wrote: I’m assuming the inner sleeve is also now like the Ceremony re issue with the more robust white card with the anvil logo at the bottom on both sides rather than plain paper sleeve.

It is. Looks and sounds great. I did notice that the orientation of the front image is mirrored, and I assume that's an error, but all in all that's not so bad. It's cool to see the text for the titles on the back of the sleeve changed to mirror the actual running order.

Played each one multiple times over the weekend. Putting them on the turntable gave me the same rush as when I first bought each one. It's really great to hear the original In A Lonely Place, and not the alternate version that surfaced on Substance (thunderclaps and effects in different places).

Because they're not including the 12" versions in the definitive edition of Movement - and I assume the other album editions will follow suit - I'm hoping this means we get a definitive Substance down the line!

50 Pound Note wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: I’m assuming the inner sleeve is also now like the Ceremony re issue with the more robust white card with the anvil logo at the bottom on both sides rather than plain paper sleeve.

Played each one multiple times over the weekend. Putting them on the turntable gave me the same rush as when I first bought each one. It's really great to hear the original In A Lonely Place, and not the alternate version that surfaced on Substance (thunderclaps and effects in different places).

How does this remastering sound compared to your own?

afr0puff wrote: How does this remastering sound compared to your own?

To be fair I didn't do the remastering, that was Bruce Bartlett and Drew Crumbaugh. But Drew did a nice A/B comparison, and his opinion is that they sound terrific. :)

Hard to believe Recycle was 10 years ago this September!

50 Pound Note wrote: Hard to believe Recycle was 10 years ago this September!

Yes, hard to believe how well this has been done. 👍 As well as it is hard to believe that my verson of Run 2 clocks 11 years this September. Time flies...

cheers, |cv|.

Cargo demo of Truth was played on Gideon Coe show on 6Music tonight. Pretty good. Kind of more guitar towards the end.

Fotzepolitic wrote: I’m just glad they didn’t balls up the Ceremony versions and sleeves.

They did balls up the cream/blue sleeve - see my last post in the Ceremony thread

The inner box is not grey and the square/stripe/font is way bigger than on the original.

Plus the little "League" red diamond on the back cover lower right corner is also missing

Latest 'Transmission':

I still can't get over how short these are.

It's really annoying. Why get all four of them bussed into a studio, miked up etc. for 2 minutes a piece? It seems a real waste.

Why couldn't they make 60 minute documentary about the making of the LP and either include it in the box set or serialise it on YouTube (like they're doing with these very short pieces), in larger 15 minute chunks etc?

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: I’m just glad they didn’t balls up the Ceremony versions and sleeves.

They did balls up the cream/blue sleeve - see my last post in the Ceremony thread

The inner box is not grey and the square/stripe/font is way bigger than on the original.

Plus the little "League" red diamond on the back cover lower right corner is also missing

Yes I saw your earlier post. Didn’t know they’d ballsed up the cream & blue sleeve as I haven’t bought that. I meant I was relieved I got the first version in the correct green sleeve.

i don't know. i think i can barely take 2 minutes of hooky.

the rest are fine.

there are tons of interviews with the others on youtube in the last few years.

later -1

negative1 wrote: there are tons of interviews with the others on youtube in the last few years

True, but the band rarely take the time to talk about this particular LP. Indeed, they seem to have pretty much forgotten the LP, with the band not performing any tracks of it live for over 30 years (35 years if you discount Dreams Never End). To be fair to Hooky, he’s given it a lot of love (and rightly so; it’s a good LP).

Would’ve been nice to hear more about the recording of this LP.

It just seems mad to go to the trouble of recording everyone and we don’t even get 10 minutes of footage.

I reckon Hooky was probably interviewed for an hour or two, but after stripping out all the back-biting and liberal use of the word ‘Twat’, they only had a couple of minutes of footage.

Picked up the Temptation 12", so I now have all four. Good reproduction on the artwork, slightly lighter than the original. The embossing is nice, but the font is bigger and the positioning is moved to the center of the white border, instead of closer to the bottom edge of the painting. Sounds just as good as the others.

Now then! I’m one of the, erm........ old boys! You know, .............. the ‘in there from the start’ division. The ‘been there, seen that, felt it more than you division! 🤣😂🤣😂 ........ Yeah, ................ right then!!!!! God bless the precious ones........eh?? 🤣

These 1919 remasters sound just dreadful!!!!

Please hunt down decent, clean, hardly played copies of the original pressings! Do not fall for this remaster bull. They are simply not favourably comparable! The originals will blow your balls / tits off with their raw top end..

..... and REMEMBER! .........

........ New Order

......... Just a band!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

..... just sayin! 🎃

... erm, (where did my smokin’ man go?)

.... and if you’ve been affected by any of the issues raised in any of the above posts please call:

07791 083 don’t give a fuck, don’t give a fuck. 😉

Live.....

Learn!

Original = BETTER! 😉

50poundnote wrote: Picked up the Temptation 12", so I now have all four. Good reproduction on the artwork, slightly lighter than the original. The embossing is nice, but the font is bigger and the positioning is moved to the center of the white border, instead of closer to the bottom edge of the painting. Sounds just as good as the others.

I picked one up yesterday too. Very nice indeed.

I noticed someone mentioned on FB that there were slight differences on the cover of this release too. I don't actually own the original 12" (only have the 7") so had nothing to compare it to.

I wonder if any of these variances are deliberate or just the standard 'f**k ups' that we've come to rely on with NO releases.

Either way, the differences don't bother me. After all, we are getting rather nice inner sleeves which weren't on the original releases.

muffy wrote: .... and REMEMBER! .........

........ New Order

......... Just a band!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

..... just sayin! 🎃

.... and if you’ve been affected by any of the issues raised in any of the above posts please call:

07791 083 don’t give a fuck, don’t give a fuck. 😉

Thanks - I'll completely change my opinion of the band from now on.

It's an internet forum about a specific band. You're quite likely to get fairly involved posts about the band here. 😉 Were you expecting casual, disinterested discussion here?

perspexorange wrote: I wonder if any of these variances are deliberate or just the standard 'f**k ups' that we've come to rely on with NO releases.

We're talking about singles that are nearly 40 years old. If the original artwork prepped for printing still exists, it's likely in poor shape. I think they've done the best they can to replicate the feel of the original artwork, while bringing it forward. For example, the original green sleeve Ceremony has a border closer to the edge of the sleeve, while the cream sleeve has it closer to the center. The two new versions have identical proportions, so sitting side by side they look balanced. Maybe the original EGG was meant to have the front image turned 90 degrees, and it was printed wrong *then*, and since they've fixed the song titles on the back, they've also corrected the front.

I've got the originals, so I really don't mind the changes - they look, feel - and most importantly SOUND - terrific. :)

While we're gotten repackaged singles boxes (CD, 7", 12") from The Smiths and Depeche Mode, no band so closely associated with 12" singles has reissued them individually in their original format. I love that New Order is doing this.

50poundnote wrote:

perspexorange wrote: I wonder if any of these variances are deliberate or just the standard 'f**k ups' that we've come to rely on with NO releases.

We're talking about singles that are nearly 40 years old. If the original artwork prepped for printing still exists, it's likely in poor shape. I think they've done the best they can to replicate the feel of the original artwork, while bringing it forward. For example, the original green sleeve Ceremony has a border closer to the edge of the sleeve, while the cream sleeve has it closer to the center. The two new versions have identical proportions, so sitting side by side they look balanced. Maybe the original EGG was meant to have the front image turned 90 degrees, and it was printed wrong *then*, and since they've fixed the song titles on the back, they've also corrected the front.

I've got the originals, so I really don't mind the changes - they looks, feel - and most importantly SOUND - terrific. :)

While we're gotten repackaged singles boxes (CD, 7", 12") from The Smiths and Depeche Mode, no band so closely associated with 12" singles has reissued them individually in their original format. I love that New Order is doing this.

Great post! I couldn’t agree more.

I think I’ve said before that I wasn’t fussed about vinyl anymore. However, this re-release project has really renewed my interest. I currently don’t have a turntable but am seriously considering getting another. Even if I don’t, these damn things are lovely to look at and i don’t regret buying them.

I’m really looking forward to the PC&L era quartet. All of which have some of my favourite Saville sleeves.

I wonder what they’ll do with Sub-Culture when it gets to the Low Life era. Although I know the common theory is that Saville hated the mix so didn’t provide a cover. What seems more likely to me is that Saville was just late. Again.

It would therefore be great if there was an ‘undiscovered’ cover that they could resurrect for that release. Alternatively, perhaps they could commission Saville to design a new one in a style complementary of the era.

Also, I wonder what will happen when we get to the era of the 12”Rs (True Faith, Fine Time, Round & Round and World In Motion). I wonder if we’ll get reissues of those.

perspexorange wrote:

I think I’ve said before that I wasn’t fussed about vinyl anymore. However, this re-release project has really renewed my interest. I currently don’t have a turntable but am seriously considering getting another. Even if I don’t, these damn things are lovely to look at and i don’t regret buying them.

I’m really looking forward to the PC&L era quartet. All of which have some of my favourite Saville sleeves.

I wonder what they’ll do with Sub-Culture when it gets to the Low Life era. Although I know the common theory is that Saville hated the mix so didn’t provide a cover. What seems more likely to me is that Saville was just late. Again.

It would therefore be great if there was an ‘undiscovered’ cover that they could resurrect for that release. Alternatively, perhaps they could commission Saville to design a new one in a style complementary of the era.

Also, I wonder what will happen when we get to the era of the 12”Rs (True Faith, Fine Time, Round & Round and World In Motion). I wonder if we’ll get reissues of those.

it would be nice if they keep going.

but i think its too soon to start looking so far ahead.

we'll be lucky if they last until power corruption and lies.

anything after that will be a bonus.

later -1

perspexorange wrote:

I think I’ve said before that I wasn’t fussed about vinyl anymore. However, this re-release project has really renewed my interest. I currently don’t have a turntable but am seriously considering getting another. Even if I don’t, these damn things are lovely to look at and i don’t regret buying them.

I’m really looking forward to the PC&L era quartet. All of which have some of my favourite Saville sleeves.

I wonder what they’ll do with Sub-Culture when it gets to the Low Life era. Although I know the common theory is that Saville hated the mix so didn’t provide a cover. What seems more likely to me is that Saville was just late. Again.

It would therefore be great if there was an ‘undiscovered’ cover that they could resurrect for that release. Alternatively, perhaps they could commission Saville to design a new one in a style complementary of the era.

Also, I wonder what will happen when we get to the era of the 12”Rs (True Faith, Fine Time, Round & Round and World In Motion). I wonder if we’ll get reissues of those.

Get yourself a turntable man! Depends what you want to pay but Pro-Ject do some great ones from anything between £200 right up to the £1000 to £2000 mark and beyond.I bought a Pro-Ject Essential 2 turntable a few years ago.It was £200 so one of the company's cheapest but it has a lovely, rich sound.The changing speed between 33rpm and 45rpm can take a while to get the hang of as there's no button, you have to physically change the belt (with a small supplied key) from the smaller cog to bigger cog and vice versa but you get the hang of it.You'll need a Pre Amp also (pick one up for around £20) and obviously a stereo system with auxiliary setting option and jack sockets on the rear.

I'll be interested to see when the P,C & L box comes around (if it does) if they tweak any of the 12" single sleeves from that era.Will BM still have the die cut sleeve? Will the likes of Thieves Like Us and Confusion have classier inner sleeves than the originals? I'm thinking too far ahead, i'll just enjoy the Movement box for now.

Yep - you’re both right. I’m getting a bit ahead of myself. Just wishful thinking. I’m just glad we’ve got Movement and the related singles. It’s hard not to look ahead to PC&L though, with it being my (marginally) second favourite LP behind Technique.

Cheers for suggestions on turntables. I’ll look into it. Need to get the idea approved, rubber-stamped and signed in triplicate by my wife first. I’ve been sneaking the 12”s into the house under the radar for the last week as it is.

NotAMod wrote: I would imagine the prospect of the other albums receiving 'The Definitive Edition' treatment will be based on the sales of the Movement set. If nobody buys it or it's a flop then why they pour money into more? Seems logical.

Personally speaking, I am quite pleased with what I have seen and heard so far compared with the last decades' efforts which were piss-poor thanks to Warners. My only negatives would be; yes, the twelve inch reissues and box-set itself are a tad pricey and no download codes with the singles is baffling for a conglomerate of Warners' status; they can clearly afford the server space and it is 2019. That said, no-one is forcing anyone to buy these.

However like Joy Division fans getting pissed off with New Order emerging in 1980s the 'I already own all the Factory originals' brigade (of which I am a fully paid up member) whinging arbitrarily probably means they are doing something right. I have seen it elsewhere on social media; this bizarre 'circling wagons' mentality over something supposedly they love so much being outrageously reissued 3 decades later (the cheek). Most of what I have read is just showing off, the usual "I was here first... so you can fuck off"... how terribly hip and above it all.

The majority of regular fans have been neglected via a surplus of Best Ofs for years with all the common tracks and now they're finally reissuing the good stuff... it's a cause for Celebration (no pun).

It can only be good for the band if their back catalogue finally gets the suitable treatment it deserves.

Yep I agree, the logical thing will be to see how well the Movement box sells before entertaining the idea of any more. I’m curious to see how well the box does.Though you could argue a box of later, more popular albums like say Technique would might sell more.Movement might not sell well, we’ll have to wait and see, but a Technique box might fare better. Impossible to say. But obviously the place to start is chronologicaly at the start, the first album.

Fotzepolitic wrote:

Though you could argue a box of later, more popular albums like say Technique would might sell more.Movement might not sell well,

I had this thought too. Movement is my least favourite of the Factory albums. Although it probably has the best extras. It's good that previously unreleased stuff will come out (e.g. Hurrahs). Once it's out there, it's out there. But I haven't rushed to put in my pre-order.

Perhaps slightly off topic, but watching Hook & The Light play Movement live at London's Koko is the most I've enjoyed this album. Somehow the live performance added some, eh...life to the thing. I wonder if he'll consider doing it again if the box set is a success (*waiting for cynical comments to follow*).

50poundnote wrote:

perspexorange wrote: I wonder if any of these variances are deliberate or just the standard 'f**k ups' that we've come to rely on with NO releases.

We're talking about singles that are nearly 40 years old. If the original artwork prepped for printing still exists, it's likely in poor shape. I think they've done the best they can to replicate the feel of the original artwork, while bringing it forward. For example, the original green sleeve Ceremony has a border closer to the edge of the sleeve, while the cream sleeve has it closer to the center. The two new versions have identical proportions, so sitting side by side they look balanced. Maybe the original EGG was meant to have the front image turned 90 degrees, and it was printed wrong *then*, and since they've fixed the song titles on the back, they've also corrected the front.

I've got the originals, so I really don't mind the changes - they look, feel - and most importantly SOUND - terrific. :)

That's a fair point - they DO sound brilliant. I was genuinely surprised at the lack of surface noise and the clarity of the pressing. Quite often these "new" reissues look great but don't appear to have had any quality control on the pressing.

I'm by no means a completist but I have gathered most of the Factory era 12"s over the years, and it's been a minefield of people mis-grading stuff. To be able to get brand new guaranteed quality replicas for £10 each is a very good option for anyone who isn't anal about having originals

And yeah, it's kind of funny that they've not *quite* got the artwork right on any of them yet - it's a classic New Order touch.

So yeah - we should at least be thankful that (so far) they haven't got any of the audio wrong. But part of me will be astonished if the Movement deluxe box doesn't have at least one cock-up on it!

Fotzepolitic wrote:

NotAMod wrote: I would imagine the prospect of the other albums receiving 'The Definitive Edition' treatment will be based on the sales of the Movement set. If nobody buys it or it's a flop then why they pour money into more? Seems logical.

Yep I agree, the logical thing will be to see how well the Movement box sells before entertaining the idea of any more. I’m curious to see how well the box does.Though you could argue a box of later, more popular albums like say Technique would might sell more.Movement might not sell well, we’ll have to wait and see, but a Technique box might fare better. Impossible to say. But obviously the place to start is chronologicaly at the start, the first album.

Yep - I've been thinking along these lines ever since the idea of boxed sets was mooted a couple of years back and have wondered what their plan would be.

It makes sense to start with 'Movement', but with it being one of the less well received LPs, this could affect sales.

In some ways, it may have been a safer option to go with one of the three more popular LPs ('PC&L', 'Low Life' or 'Technique'). Then, once people have bought one of those, they're kind of 'hooked' on getting them and may buy the other less popular LPs (the other two 80s LPs and the post-Factory ones).

However, I'm glad they didn't go with this option and am really happy that they started at the beginning.

As Debaser mentions, 'Movement' probably has some of the most interesting 'extras' too (although I think PC&L should be pretty cool).

I just hope that the 'gamble' (if it is one) pays off and we get each LP treated to a similar 'definitive edition'.

In terms of using Movement as an acid test for possible future box, imo the biggest threat to sales is the absurd cost of the thing (include the 12"s and then it's approaching value for money) and the mixed media. If they release each box with separate 12"s as it seems they will, it's going to end up like one of those magazine subscriptions where you get one piece of a model each month and sucks your wallet dry :(