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Movement - The Definitive Edition

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I'm not a fan of bands releasing deluxe editions out of chronological order. You start by establishing the band's legacy, and move forward from there.

I think they're going about this the right way. Movement is my least favorite of the Factory-era albums, but I'm excited for this release. It includes so many extras, plus a 40-page hardback book. The 4 accompanying singles are among their best. At least they're rolling them out one by one, and not 3 at a time. If they spread them out to twice a year - or even one per year - the expense isn't that bad.

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Me neither. Warners reissued The Smiths stuff out out of chronological order and went straight for a The Queen Is Dead mega-box at the expense of everything else. No doubt perceiving it - inaccurately - to be everyone's favourite Smiths LP. I am glad to see the same approach is not being taken with NO. Also, I'm still waiting for that Strangeways definitive box-set.

It will be interesting to see what the Republic Definitive Edition will feature... assuming the label goes that far down the road. Only one bona fide B-side and the rest being remixes and all.... lots of remixes. Famously not the band's finest era relations-wise so getting mutual agreement between both camps for best representation might be a stretch. It would be nice to have stuff such as Vicious Circle (NewOrder Mix) and World (The Price of Dub) in true digital. Also the Montreux Jazz Festival show which we saw a couple of tracks off on New Order Story. Republic is one of those albums which would be fascinating to hear in raw demo form. As per Hook's memoir, hearing those basslines that Bernard allegedly followed for a vocal melody or two I.e. World.

Just my own speculation but I suspect the Definitive Editions will cover the Factory years only as the original 2008 Collector's Editions did. The London Years don't seem highly rated by either fans or band alike despite a smattering of really strong singles such as Regret, Crystal and WFTSC. I hope I'm wrong.

It's a shame, Get Ready could probably muster a really cool Definitive Edition; there is tonnes of material there from the initial Brutal sessions in 1998 all the way through to Such A Good Thing in 2002.

Finally, WFTSC and Lost Sirens are destined to be reissued together at some point; it's only a matter of time.

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NotAMod wrote: It will be interesting to see what the Republic Definitive Edition will feature...

I have such a soft spot for Republic, and I know most people consider Technique to be the last "true" New Order album, but it's Republic for me. I'd love to have a definitive box full of extras.

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NotAMod wrote: Me neither. Warners reissued The Smiths stuff out out of chronological order and went straight for a The Queen Is Dead mega-box at the expense of everything else. No doubt perceiving it - inaccurately - to be everyone's favourite Smiths LP. I am glad to see the same approach is not being taken with NO. Also, I'm still waiting for that Strangeways definitive box-set.

If a label releases an expanded box set out of sequence then it's fair to say they probably won't bother with the rest.

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If ever there was a niche market... 120 notes to revisit the shakiest moment of a band that hasn't released an album in three years. One for the obsessives, and even they've been bemoaning the price tag. But obviously, this is the place to start. I might be up for PCL (intriguing) or Technique (quality). A proper issue of https://musicforstowaways.wordpress.com/2013/11/30/new-order-1988-demos/ maybe. Otherwise I'll pass.

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Michael Monkhouse wrote:

...or Technique (quality). A proper issue of https://musicforstowaways.wordpress.com/2013/11/30/new-order-1988-demos/ maybe. Otherwise I'll pass.

Sometimes your posts really are useful Mr Monkhouse. Does everyone know about this tape besides me? It was only in quite recent years that I became aware of the Get Ready (inc Mission Impossible) demo stuff. I do have some BM 88 variations on my hard drive (three tracks known as BM '88 demo cassette). Did they come from here? Do people have digital copies of all these demo bits? Is there demo stuff "out there" for PCL, Low Life and Brotherhood? Have I asked too many questions?

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Oh stop it! What are you like?

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Debaser wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

...or Technique (quality). A proper issue of https://musicforstowaways.wordpress.com/2013/11/30/new-order-1988-demos/ maybe. Otherwise I'll pass.

Sometimes your posts really are useful Mr Monkhouse. Does everyone know about this tape besides me? It was only in quite recent years that I became aware of the Get Ready (inc Mission Impossible) demo stuff. I do have some BM 88 variations on my hard drive (three tracks known as BM '88 demo cassette). Did they come from here? Do people have digital copies of all these demo bits? Is there demo stuff "out there" for PCL, Low Life and Brotherhood? Have I asked too many questions?

I'm not sure about whether those three Blue Monday 1988 variations you mention are the same as the ones from the above tape, but it seems likely. I have digital copies of the tracks on the Technique tape, so PM me if you want to listen to them to compare.

I expect that demos exist of all LPs, but there's precious few out there in the wild. These are all the demos that I know and have (not including the previously 'unheard by fans' ones that will be on the 'Movement set):

Dreams Never End (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) (Mix 1) 03:43 Dreams Never End (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) (Mix 2) 03:41 Homage (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) 04:15 Ceremony (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) 04:40 Truth (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) 05:29 Are You Ready, Are You Ready, Are You Ready For This? (Western Works Demo, 07/09/80) 02:46 Let's Go (Unreleased Original Version) 03:52 Sunrise (Instrumental Rough Mix) 05:45 Sub-Culture (Demo) 06:36 As It Is When It Was (Demo) 03:25 Paradise (Demo) 04:04 Bizarre Love Triangle (Demo) 04:58 Salvation Theme (Salvation Demo) 04:38 Salvation Theme (Salvation Demo 2) 01:50 Touched By The Hand Of God (Salvation Demo) 04:59 Let's Go (Salvation Demo) 03:24 Skullcrusher (Salvation Demo) 03:43 Blue Monday 1988 (Demo - No Samples) (Cut) 01:52 Blue Monday 1988 (Demo - No Samples) (Start Missing) 05:02 Blue Monday 1988 (Demo - No Samples) 07:10 Blue Monday 1988 (Demo - Samples #1) 07:09 Blue Monday 1988 (Demo - Samples #2) 07:09 Love Less (Demo) 00:43 Mr Disco (Demo) 01:04 Don't Do It (Demo) 01:09 Run (Early Version) 00:36 Unknown Demo #1 00:37 Best & Marsh (Demo) 01:18 MTO (Demo) 01:00 Unknown Demo #2 01:24 Guitar and Bass Checks 00:28 Dream Attack (Demo) 05:49 Dream Attack (Demo - Hooky Bass Over Playback) 00:50 Dream Attack (Demo - Monitor Playback) 01:10 Dream Attack (Demo - Hooky Bass Over Playback, With Piano) 01:48 Mr Disco (Demo - Hooky Bass Over Playback) 02:56 Low-Fi Hooky Riffing 00:09 Hi-Fi Hooky Riffing 01:18 More Hi-Fi Hooky Riffing 00:23 Hooky Bass (All The Way #1) 00:23 Low-Volume Ambient Recording (BM Playback Plus Bass Synth to 'Much Too Old') 20:39 Hooky Bass (All The Way #2) 00:25 Hooky Bass ('The Him' Style Riff) 00:40 Guilty Partner (Rehearsal Takes) 03:15 Don't Do It (Rehearsal Takes) 01:54 Unknown #2 (Rehearsal Takes) 00:47 Guilty Partner (Demo #1) 05:26 Guilty Partner (Demo #2) 05:03 Guilty Partner (Demo #3) 03:35 All The Way (Demo) 03:32 Run 2 (7" Edited Master) 03:39 Run 2 (Unedited Old Arrangement) 04:12 Run 2 (Instrumental) 04:28 Run 2 (7" Original Mix) 03:40 60 MPH ['60 Miles An Hour'] (Mix 2) 04:36 Runwild ['Primitive Notion'] (Mix 3) 05:59 Dream On ['Close Range'] (Original Mix) 04:39 Crystal 07:23 Freefall ['Someone Like You'] (Mix 2) 06:28 Slow Jam (Mix 4) 05:34 Shipwreck ['Turn My Way'] (Mix 2) 05:15 Vicious Streak (Mix 3) 06:44 Field ['Player In The League'] (Mix 1 Vox Up) 05:36 Run This River Dry ['Sabotage'] (Recall From Submix) 04:50 Full Circle ['Run Wild'] (Mix 2) 04:12 Beach Demo #1 ['Brutal'] (Instrumental) 05:23 Beach Demo #2 ['60 Miles An Hour'] (Original Version) 04:06 Beach Demo #3 ['Mission Impossible' Theme] 03:11 Brutal (Rollo EQ'ed as Master 1 But Vox Down) 04:45 Brutal (Rollo EQ'ed As Master 2) 04:44 Brutal (Rollo EQ'ed As Master 1) 04:45 Brutal (Monitor Mix 29/09/99) 04:36 Brutal (Monitor Mix - Rollo Restructure 30/09/99) 04:54 60 MPH ['60 Miles An Hour'] (Demo - Rollo Monitor Mix) 04:02 Shipwreck Of A Broken Man ['Turn My Way'] (No Billy Corgan) 05:27 Temptation '98 (Albert Square, Manchester - 21/08/98 Louder Vocal Mix) 04:09 60 MPH ['60 Miles An Hour'] (David Kahne V2 Edit) 04:44 60 MPH ['60 Miles An Hour'] (Steve Osborne Monitor Mix) 04:40 Crystal (Steve Osborne Monitor Mix) 05:42 Minidisc 2 ['Dracula's Castle'] (Early Mix) 05:24 Jet ['Jetstream'] (Early Mix - No Ana Matronic) 05:06 Jet ['Jetstream'] (Drum-less Intro) 05:22 Fast Synth ['Guilt Is A Useless Emotion'] (Early Mix) 05:38 Turn (Early Mix) (Alternate Percussion) 04:35 Working Overtime (Early Mix) 03:28

The above include all the pre-mix stuff (i.e. Run, Get Ready and Waiting For The Sirens' Call leaked tapes).

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I will say that the 'Bizarre Love Triangle' demo sounds like a rehearsal to me, rather than a demo. Also, I'm pretty sure the 'Sub-Culture' demo is just the Razormaid / 'Record Mirror' mix. Probably mislabelled (either deliberately or accidentally) by the original bootlegger.

The Technique ones are probably the most interesting (well, to me, anyway). But other ones of note are:

  1. the Western Works demos (most of which will be on the Movement set);
  2. the original vocal version of 'Let's Go' ("Waiting For So Long") (probably recorded in preparation for Low Life, which I'm sure everyone has heard by now);
  3. 'Sunrise' (Instrumental Rough Mix) (released on the 'Discreet Campaigns' tape);
  4. 'As It Is When It Was' demo (an early version, probably again recorded for Low Life);
  5. The 'Salvation' demos, which include a early vocal take of Let's Go using the "Nothing For Me" lyrics); (***)
  6. 'Mission Impossible' theme (recorded during the '98 'The Beach' sessions, that 'Brutal', 'Crystal' and '60 miles an hour' came from);
  7. 'Shipwreck Of A Broken Man' ('Turn My Way', but without nasally Billy Corgan)
  8. 'Jet' ('Jetstream', without Ana Matronic - Yep, it does exist folks!)

(***) A little story about this one. Back in about 1994, I was trading with a fan and he had something labelled on his trade list as 'Salvation Demos'. My curiosity piqued, I asked for a copy.

When I got them, they were labelled up as containing demos of 'Salvation Theme' (two versions), 'Touched...', 'Skullcrusher' and 'Let's Go'. Naturally, I assumed that the 'Let's Go' demo would likely be an instrumental, just as the version released on the soundtrack was. I had assumed that a vocal version of the track had long been abandoned following the "Waiting For So Long" Low Life demo. (Remember, this was in 1994, so about 12 months before we all got to hear about the "Nothing For Me" version).

I put the tape in the player and almost shat myself when I heard a completely different vocal version of 'Let's Go'. Obviously, the impact of this was lessened when, a year later, a refined version of this very demo was released on the '1963' CD single. But, to suddenly hear an almost completely 'new' track, including Barney vocals, was a little exciting.

You have to remember that this was directly following the (mostly) car wreck that was 'Republic' and worse mess that was the 'remix fest' that we were subjected to at the time (Sly & Robbie Bogle Mix, anyone? No, I didn't think so...). So, yeah, new New Order sounded absolutely golden.

The demo is quite similar but there are a number of obvious variations, and it's definitely a different vocal take to the released version.

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My message was rejected as spam.I was trying to say i have most of the above but haven't listened to all.But i don't have the WFTSC ones.There's also The Basement Tapes with rough sketches of This Time Of Night and more.And one called 'fairly advanced sequencer and synth one' that has the car screeching noise like in TPK live and has some great promise and ideas.Someone on here stuck it on YouTube a few years ago but it got taken down eventually.It's about 9 minutes long and is from early sessions for Low Life i guess.

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Fotzepolitic wrote: My message was rejected as spam.I was trying to say i have most of the above but haven't listened to all.But i don't have the WFTSC ones.There's also The Basement Tapes with rough sketches of This Time Of Night and more.And one called 'fairly advanced sequencer and synth one' that has the car screeching noise like in TPK live and has some great promise and ideas.Someone on here stuck it on YouTube a few years ago but it got taken down eventually.It's about 9 minutes long and is from early sessions for Low Life i guess.

Ah yes. I'f forgotten about those. I think they're mainly rehearsals, aren't they? But, to be fair, a lot of the Technique ones are similar sort of things.

Just for completeness, these are the ones I have labelled as 'rehearsals'. I think that one you mentioned was called 'fairly advanced sequencer and synth one' , i have labelled as 'untitled' and is 11:55 in length.

In A Lonely Place (1980 Rehearsal) 05:24 Procession (1980 Rehearsal) 02:47 Homage (1980 Rehearsal) 03:39 Dialogue (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 01:58 Hurt (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 01:10 Hurt (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 09:53 Hurt (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 06:38 Unknown (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 05:13 Ultraviolence (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 00:59 Ultraviolence (09/10/81 Rehearsal) 01:39 Ecstasy (Late 1982 Rehearsal) 00:40 Ecstasy (Late 1982 Rehearsal) 11:58 Paradise (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 03:21 This Time Of Night (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 00:50 This Time Of Night (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 00:50 Love Vigilantes (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 01:31 Love Vigilantes (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 02:48 Untitled (02/09/84 Rehearsal) 11:55

As regards being rejected as SPAM, I've found that the less abbreviations you have in your post, the better. Sometimes, it accepts abbreviations (like it did with WFTSC for you), but if you go to edit the post later, it rejects these abbreviations. Often, lengthening things like 'TPK' to 'The Perfect Kiss' etc. seems to work.

(Having now used abbreviations in my post to illustrate the point, you watch me have trouble trying to post this...)

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perspexorange wrote: (Having now used abbreviations in my post to illustrate the point, you watch me have trouble trying to post this...)

It didn't. Went through first time. Go figure...

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Yeah i think they’d be classed as rehearsals / jams rather than demos so they wouldn’t make it into any future box set.I keep making the mistake of calling them demos.

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Fotzepolitic wrote: Yeah i think they’d be classed as rehearsals / jams rather than demos so they wouldn’t make it into any future box set.I keep making the mistake of calling them demos.

To be fair, I think most of the things I've listed as demos could just as easily be classed as rehearsals, so I am as much to blame. I'm listening to the Technique ones now and most of them are just Hooky noodling away.

It's a shame the Guilty Partner ones are so murky (they seem more murky than the others) as these are rather nice with Barney 'la-la-larring' through them.

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Latest Transmission:

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Has anyone set advanced eyes on the actual box yet? I'm wondering it has been designed to house the 4 12"s as well - given that they were bundled in the NO Store

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Although I wish this was the case, I’d imagine not. Just as it would probably make the box a bit too loose for those only buying Movement.

I hope I’m proved wrong though.

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Thanks. Looks good.

Looking forward to seeing what’s in the book.

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GotBlueEyes wrote:

Doesn't look likely that the 12"s will fit in the box, but it does look nice... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Movement-Definitive-VINYL-New-Order/dp/B07LGS5TVR

You could have Amazon under the trades description act for that image, going by that image you get the 12 inch singles included with the box.

I’m kind of hoping I might receive the box on Thursday afternoon, the Ceremony 12 inch green cover reissue arrived on the Thursday before the official Friday release date

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Yes - good point - would have to get a shipment notice pretty soon though and I've had nothing yet

Should get a reasonable rebate on the pre-order price guarantee -It was £109.99 when I ordered it, and is currently £94.59

According to the data the lowest the price has dipped in between times is £89.22 - so that's the price all the pre-orders will pay when it ships

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Mine hasn't shipped yet but Amazon states it will be delivered on Friday.

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Just a heads up, Denial has crept into the Hurrah's tracklisting by mistake on the sleeve artwork. No idea how this happened. Obviously it wasn't even written in Sept 1980 so is not actually there.

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Cheers for the heads up about this.

Bit annoying. I noticed this error in the press release back in December (and I mentioned it earlier in this thread). I’m guessing that the same data that went to the press release sadly also went to the printers.

A minor annoyance though. Hopefully that’s the only issue with this set. After the 2007 Rhino reissues, I always get worried about these things.

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I was that exited when this release was announced I ordered direct from the New Order site immediately at very high cost compared to amazon.

The upside of that is that I have been notified it is out for delivery.

For the money I paid it should be delivered by Bernard, Steve and Gillian! Looking forward to p,aging it all, I’ll dedicate a whole night to Movement. Purposely not played anything from the movement era dive this was announced so it will all sound real,y fresh

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Amazon message tells me it’s out for delivery today. Will be delivered today. Except I’m at work. Hope it gets left with the neighbours.

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Amazon also notified me it has shipped and will arrive Thursday.

Of course where I live, by the time it's delivered, it will likely already be Friday for most of you.

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People on facebook are showing off with pics of them taking it out of the envelope/package today and calling it "amazing" before they've even opened the box. 32 likes and counting. You won't get that much "love" on here!

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Still no shipment notice here in the UK from Amazon - grrr

One thing I noticed on the 6 music play of the Ceremony Western Works demo was that it didn't sound greatly different to the circulating bootleg version. I always assumed the horrible phasing on the hi-hat was wow on the bootleg transfer, but it's still there so maybe it was deliberate? Glad they ditched that idea if so!

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First impressions- a lot of care and attention gone into this. A beautiful thing. Helpful touch with the white ribbon to ease getting the stuff out of the box.Oh, they’ve included the original see through plastic sleeve AND a new white card sleeve for the inner of the vinyl.

Book is fantastic.

First thing I played was the alternative 1982 7” mix of Tempation, yes some differences to the released 7”.

Oh and Colin Torr (Biginoil from these forums once upon a time, maybe he still does post but under a different username?) gets a credit!

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