Movement - The Definitive Edition

Johnny James wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

One thing I wanted to ask to any of the Movement archivists watching this thread, was how come the BBC Riverside footage is fairly grainy and of a low quality? (I’ve noticed moments where I get lateral lines across the screen). I’d have thought that this would be the best quality footage on the disc, being from a respected TV station. Not a criticism; just an observation. Unless my DVD or player is faulty.

The feint horizontal lines that seem to come and go are on the original broadcast footage, it's like some kind of interference from the music in the studio perhaps? Not much we could do about it.

No problem. I just thought it strange. It's not particularly distracting and at least there's nothing wrong with my DVD.

I'm absolutely thrilled with the set - easily the best thing I've bought in an age. I'd like to thank yourself and any others who had a hand in putting the set together for a job 'very' well done. I really couldn't be happier.

I'll probably try to write a mini review at some point, once I've watched / listened / read everything multiple times. In the meantime, I'm loving reading everyone else's opinions of the set.

Johnny James wrote:

negative1 wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: On first listen, I can't hear any difference between the alternate Temptation 7" and the released version. Anyone spotted anything obvious?

same here, just a different mastering. but it matches the regular 7 inch to me.

maybe they put the wrong version on here.

later -1

Listen around 2'10, there's a different emphasis on which guitar parts are more prominent. This one has the strummed guitar more upfront.

Not a major change but a little more like the 12" version.

Yes this is what i hear.The guitar more upfront at 2.10 is like/is the strummed guitar in the 1982 12" but maybe that's just down to mastering? Maybe that guitar strumming around 2.10 is actually in the original 7" but lower down in the mix? Also thought the drums are not so full on as the original 7" release.And maybe a few synth bleeps more detailed/upfront?

Johnny James wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

One thing I wanted to ask to any of the Movement archivists watching this thread, was how come the BBC Riverside footage is fairly grainy and of a low quality? (I’ve noticed moments where I get lateral lines across the screen). I’d have thought that this would be the best quality footage on the disc, being from a respected TV station. Not a criticism; just an observation. Unless my DVD or player is faulty.

The feint horizontal lines that seem to come and go are on the original broadcast footage, it's like some kind of interference from the music in the studio perhaps? Not much we could do about it.

Hard to say this without it coming across as a complaint which is not my intention, it's meant as an observation but i thought the Temptation clip from Riverside that is often repeated on BBC4 on Friday nights on programmes like Synth Brittania is better quality than what's on the DVD.But i'm not disappointed, as i say it's just an observation.The clips included from Riverside on the DVD like Procession and In A Lonely Place are fantastic to finally see.I did wonder if there's something wrong with my DVD player (it is pretty old now) when i saw the Temptation clip and the lines across the screen in the other clips from Riverside but it's fine.Just great to see that tv appearance in full at last.

I do hear a difference in the tempation mix, but there is in several areas, especially near the end.

Again, I thought it was more of a mastering difference, and more of a subtle change.

Top is the Alternate mix, bottom is the original 7 inch.

later -1

Similarly, I hear little difference between the 'Ceremony' 1st mix and the original 7" version. Are there any differences other than the fade out?

negative1 wrote: I do hear a difference in the tempation mix, but there is in several areas, especially near the end.

Again, I thought it was more of a mastering difference, and more of a subtle change.

Top is the Alternate mix, bottom is the original 7 inch.

later -1

This is really helpful. Thanks -1.

While we're on the subject of Temptation, does anyone know the story behind the 'Something Wild' soundtrack version? It's quite different, with the 'green eyes, grey eyes, blue eyes' line appearing at the start and again before the second verse.

Was it another alternate 7" version that was discarded at the time of release, only to be resurrected for the soundtrack in 1986? Or was it something newly created using the original tracks especially for the soundtrack?

If anyone needs a reminder of how the version sounds:

perspexorange wrote: While we're on the subject of Temptation, does anyone know the story behind the 'Something Wild' soundtrack version? It's quite different, with the 'green eyes, grey eyes, blue eyes' line appearing at the start and again before the second verse.

Was it another alternate 7" version that was discarded at the time of release, only to be resurrected for the soundtrack in 1986? Or was it something newly created using the original tracks especially for the soundtrack?

If anyone needs a reminder of how the version sounds:

It's a fairly messy edit of the original 7".

Cheers Johnny. Any idea who did the edit? Presumably not the band?

perspexorange wrote: Cheers Johnny. Any idea who did the edit? Presumably not the band?

No idea, probably someone associated with the film.

Thanks. Makes sense.

Haven't posted on here for many a long year....

Perhaps Rocket Mick and Shug Sludden of Corby remember me?

I did an early Recycle type CDR thing in a shoebox type thing many moons ago.

Anyway this Movement box has got me stoked again - great stuff.

Received the box on Friday and has made my weekend - a quality item!

I'm kind of in love with the Cargo demo version of 'Cries and Whispers.'

Just realised that the Peppermint Lounge gig is only a couple of days later than the Taras Schevchenko gig - but it feels much looser and energetic. I guess that they were less self-conscious of the cameras - and I think it was the last night of that US tour?

The Hurrah's gig is the night after the Hoboken gig that surfaced a few years ago - same set list, just minus the unreleased track "Hour". I loved that Hoboken bootleg, the way they sounded so on the edge of it all falling apart, so to see actual video footage of the following night is quite something

AdamTate wrote: Haven't posted on here for many a long year....

Anyway this Movement box has got me stoked again - great stuff.

Received the box on Friday and has made my weekend - a quality item!

Welcome back! Good to have different people posting on here.

dallywhitty wrote: I'm kind of in love with the Cargo demo version of 'Cries and Whispers.'

Me too. Mesh is my favourite though.

All the Cargo demos are fantastic. Love the extra guitar on Truth. Doubts Even Here is magnificent also.

I think, had the songs been released a bit more like this, the LP would be liked more by fans. I personally love the LP myself, but I hear things in these demos I’ve never noticed before. Everything just sounds so clear and too damn ‘good’ to be classed as demos, IMHO. When you here demos, they’re usually murky or skeletons of the songs in question. Not so here.

GotBlueEyes wrote: Just realised that the Peppermint Lounge gig is only a couple of days later than the Taras Schevchenko gig - but it feels much looser and energetic. I guess that they were less self-conscious of the cameras - and I think it was the last night of that US tour?

The Hurrah's gig is the night after the Hoboken gig that surfaced a few years ago - same set list, just minus the unreleased track "Hour". I loved that Hoboken bootleg, the way they sounded so on the edge of it all falling apart, so to see actual video footage of the following night is quite something

Yep, these two gigs are highlights in a truly brilliant box set.

It really is a remarkable box. Quick highlight for me is Bernard's dancing on Hurt / Peppermint Lounge on the DVD. First footage from that period I've ever seen that has him in other than dour-mode. Great version of the track too. Gritty.

DR

Dennis Remmer wrote: It really is a remarkable box. Quick highlight for me is Bernard's dancing on Hurt / Peppermint Lounge on the DVD. First footage from that period I've ever seen that has him in other than dour-mode. DR

There is a moment in ETGG just after he stops playing his melodica where he starts to dance and he sub-consciously apes Ian Curtis - then you can almost feel him realise what he's done and he immediately stops. Must have been a very strange time for him

Other thoughts upon repeated listening - the sparse Cargo instrumental demo of Doubts Even Here is incredible - and it dawned on me how similar it sounds to the version of The Eternal they did at the Preston Warehouse gig when all the equipment was packing up. Listen to them back to back and you'll see what I mean.

Was the Cargo session widely known about by fans prior to this boxset? The notes say simply January 1981 - and looking at the gig guide they had a few shows in early January - then nothing till early February. The Peel Session was recorded late January I think. The intro to ICB changed between the Cargo session and the Peel Session, but the rest of the tracks are very similar. I'd guess the recording date at around the 15-20 Jan? Strange that nothing ever surfaced officially - it sounds pretty good to me...

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Dennis Remmer wrote: It really is a remarkable box. Quick highlight for me is Bernard's dancing on Hurt / Peppermint Lounge on the DVD. First footage from that period I've ever seen that has him in other than dour-mode. DR

There is a moment in ETGG just after he stops playing his melodica where he starts to dance and he sub-consciously apes Ian Curtis - then you can almost feel him realise what he's done and he immediately stops. Must have been a very strange time for him

Other thoughts upon repeated listening - the sparse Cargo instrumental demo of Doubts Even Here is incredible - and it dawned on me how similar it sounds to the version of The Eternal they did at the Preston Warehouse gig when all the equipment was packing up. Listen to them back to back and you'll see what I mean.

Was the Cargo session widely known about by fans prior to this boxset? The notes say simply January 1981 - and looking at the gig guide they had a few shows in early January - then nothing till early February. The Peel Session was recorded late January I think. The intro to ICB changed between the Cargo session and the Peel Session, but the rest of the tracks are very similar. I'd guess the recording date at around the 15-20 Jan? Strange that nothing ever surfaced officially - it sounds pretty good to me...

This should tell you: Cargo Studios Wall Planners

Interesting. So I assume the New Order Cargo session is where the planner says 'Rob Gretton' (Wed 21 Jan to Fri 23 Jan 1981). John Peel session was recorded on Monday 26 January, so the very next working day - which would explain the similarities (guess changes to ICB intro were decided on over the weekend or on the day of recording the John Peel session).

Mr Discography wrote: Interesting. So I assume the New Order Cargo session is where the planner says 'Rob Gretton' (Wed 21 Jan to Fri 23 Jan 1981). John Peel session was recorded on Monday 26 January, so the very next working day - which would explain the similarities (guess changes to ICB intro were decided on over the weekend or on the day of recording the John Peel session).

I just noticed that in Mark Johnson's Ideal For Living book he notes the Movement recording dates as January-July 1981 - which means he must have been aware of and counting the January Cargo session as part of the album sessions. So does that mean there was other stuff from this session that ended up on the album, and what we have in the boxset is just the unreleased stuff or was the whole session scrapped? The Him for example was played at gigs in December 1980 but not in the Cargo recordings?

GotBlueEyes wrote: There is a moment in ETGG just after he stops playing his melodica where he starts to dance and he sub-consciously apes Ian Curtis - then you can almost feel him realise what he's done and he immediately stops. Must have been a very strange time for him

I noticed that too, and had the exact same thought.

Mr Discography wrote: Interesting. So I assume the New Order Cargo session is where the planner says 'Rob Gretton' (Wed 21 Jan to Fri 23 Jan 1981). John Peel session was recorded on Monday 26 January, so the very next working day - which would explain the similarities (guess changes to ICB intro were decided on over the weekend or on the day of recording the John Peel session).

Rob also hired it out on the Sunday (25th), but the looks of things.

Also, the mixing appears to have been done on the 29th.

Just saw all the latest Movement tracks posted to Youtube via the official NewOrder account...

curious if this might backfire and reduce sales of actual product if you can listen to it on youtube

because it sounds fantastic, very clear and remastered or something

never heard the Western Works demos sound so crisp, so used to hearing some crap bootleg cassette I had from the 1980s

tarbox23 wrote: Just saw all the latest Movement tracks posted to Youtube via the official NewOrder account...

curious if this might backfire and reduce sales of actual product if you can listen to it on youtube

The (virtual) two disc version of the box set was also put on Spotify (the one that Qobuz charge about £30 for). I thought they mght do that in a year's time but was surprised they did it immediately.

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Interesting. So I assume the New Order Cargo session is where the planner says 'Rob Gretton' (Wed 21 Jan to Fri 23 Jan 1981). John Peel session was recorded on Monday 26 January, so the very next working day - which would explain the similarities (guess changes to ICB intro were decided on over the weekend or on the day of recording the John Peel session).

I just noticed that in Mark Johnson's Ideal For Living book he notes the Movement recording dates as January-July 1981 - which means he must have been aware of and counting the January Cargo session as part of the album sessions. So does that mean there was other stuff from this session that ended up on the album, and what we have in the boxset is just the unreleased stuff or was the whole session scrapped? The Him for example was played at gigs in December 1980 but not in the Cargo recordings?

I should have gone straight to Hooky's book - he lists the Cargo demos as 21-23 January, so it was there all along that they demo'ed the album

dallywhitty wrote: I'm kind of in love with the Cargo demo version of 'Cries and Whispers.'

Yeah - it's fantastic - and very different to the released version. I'm now curious as to when the released versions of Mesh and Cries & Whispers were recorded. Neither MJ or Hooky explicitly mention which session they came from They both state that Procession and ETGG were recorded at Strawberry on 10-12 March, but no mention of those other two tracks.

There is also a contradiction over when ETGG was actually recorded. MJ states it was written and recorded at the end of the main Movement sessions 24 April-4 May. So it can't have also been recorded nearly 2 months before it was written?! It wasn't debuted live until 15th May either, so that ties in with the later date. It was also always mentioned as the last session they did with Hannett - so again it can't have been recorded in March as they still had the whole of the Movement sessions to look forward to.

On that basis I think it must have been Mesh / C&W that were recorded in March along with Procession at Strawberry. They are certainly more sonically similar to Procession as opposed to the spacier sound of Movement - and had both already been dropped from the set in the January (the plan for the main Movement sesion was supposed to be the current live set + new songs written in the studio)

I have not watched NO videos for years , although i loved them , especially the one that played vicious streak on "pause "If this is cheaper in the future it will be another asset. I do not ever feel deprived , as there is so much to choose from . NO and Light tours come often enough, all is wonderful . What i want most of all is for NO to record some new modern super psychedelic electronica , wiith their usual sensitivity, beauty , understanding, bliss, technique ,and the usual stellar , superlative exccellence NO is known for . In other words , the usual eternal greatness songwise, with mesmerizing fun, interesting, and nearly divine sonic stories with thrills ,spills, chills, and majesty and greatness. And Eno and a myriad of other wonderful bands and individuals will all thank NO for raising the bar again .Best band ever ,whether they rap, or hop or hip ir pop or go into the depths of our souls . Welcome to the future , the cosmos , and the always football correct , The Psychedelic New Order

Had 6Music on at work today. Movement is “Album” of the day. Or rather the box set is what they’re playing a lot of today. Senses (Cargo Demo) on Shaun Keaveny right now. Dreams Never End album version got played by I think John Hancock morning show earlier and Mary Anne Hobbs played the alternate Temptation.Steve Morris will be On Radcliffe & Maconie show on 11th May apparently.

GotBlueEyes wrote:

I'm now curious as to when the released versions of Mesh and Cries & Whispers were recorded. Neither MJ or Hooky explicitly mention which session they came from They both state that Procession and ETGG were recorded at Strawberry on 10-12 March, but no mention of those other two tracks.

There is also a contradiction over when ETGG was actually recorded. MJ states it was written and recorded at the end of the main Movement sessions 24 April-4 May. So it can't have also been recorded nearly 2 months before it was written?! It wasn't debuted live until 15th May either, so that ties in with the later date. It was also always mentioned as the last session they did with Hannett - so again it can't have been recorded in March as they still had the whole of the Movement sessions to look forward to.

On that basis I think it must have been Mesh / C&W that were recorded in March along with Procession at Strawberry. They are certainly more sonically similar to Procession as opposed to the spacier sound of Movement - and had both already been dropped from the set in the January (the plan for the main Movement sesion was supposed to be the current live set + new songs written in the studio)

Well doesn't the story go that the reason Everything's Gone Green is titled as such is because they came out of the studio after a long day recording an, at that point, untitled track and all the snow that had been on the ground when they went in had all melted and the grass was now visible again and someone said "hey,everything's gone green!" So that sounds to me like March.Snow melting rapidly in a few hours is the kind of thing that happens in March (or anytime of winter really i suppose).So they decided to name their new track Everything's Gone Green.This could of course all be just a story.

Fotzepolitic wrote:

Well doesn't the story go that the reason Everything's Gone Green is titled as such is because they came out of the studio after a long day recording an, at that point, untitled track and all the snow that had been on the ground when they went in had all melted and the grass was now visible again and someone said "hey,everything's gone green!" So that sounds to me like March.Snow melting rapidly in a few hours is the kind of thing that happens in March (or anytime of winter really i suppose).So they decided to name their new track Everything's Gone Green.This could of course all be just a story.

The story I read was that after a long day of recording and drugs, when they/he stepped out of the recording studio, his vision was altered due to fatigue and drugs. Everything had gone green, and thats where the opening line came from. "Help me, somebody help me. I wonder where I am."

perspexorange wrote:

AdamTate wrote:

Doubts Even Here is magnificent also.

Yeah, really amazing version - really feels like an extension of the approach of Closer

tarbox23 wrote: Just saw all the latest Movement tracks posted to Youtube via the official NewOrder account...

curious if this might backfire and reduce sales of actual product if you can listen to it on youtube

because it sounds fantastic, very clear and remastered or something

never heard the Western Works demos sound so crisp, so used to hearing some crap bootleg cassette I had from the 1980s

Yes, saw that pop up in my youtube feed, I guess it stops piracy in a strange way. As I'm never going to buy the box set (although I did mull it over in the local record store) I ripped the lot to mp3 and listened to them in the car today. Definitely a lot better than some of the scratchy bootlegs I've heard. Thought even after it'd gone through original->youtube->mp3 that movement remastered sounded really good and very punchy in the car.