Re watched the 3 16 DVD

I watched the 3 16 DVD for first time in absolutely years the other night and then ripped the audio of Reading 98 and the In Conversation thing (also watched and then ripped the audio of Taras Shevchenko a few days previous)

Anyone know why the whole of the Reading performance wasn't put on the disc? Ceremony, LWTUA and Confusion are missing.I grabbed these (Soundboard recordings according to the file description) from a P2P and added them to the folder in their correct setlist places..Listening to them i can't find that much wrong with them that would justify their not being included on the disc to complete the whole gig.Were the recorded camera angles deemed unsatisfactory? Or was Barney's dancing that bad?

One thing that struck me from watching again is when Barney and Hooky shake/slap hands after the end of True Faith.It came across as they were celebrating how the new remix/live version of the song had gone so well on its first live airing (or did they do that Perfecto version at Manc Apollo the month before?).And maybe more telling is it's the only time i can recall seeing the two of them celebrating with each other at a gig.The only time i can ever remember seeing them acknowledge each other with a kind of shared elation that a song had gone so well at a gig.Anyone know of any other gig where something like that has happened? Kind of like its telling that in all the years of doing gigs they rarely celebrated together that way after a song.

I was at the gig ( had the ticket from the cancelled Phoenix festival), a fantastic night that lives long in the memory.Didn't bother with Garbage afterwards even though i quite liked them at the time.NO were always going to be the true headliners that night and we couldn't be bothered with Garbage after them, we wandered off around the festival site , maybe grabbed some more drinks and then slept in my car (only to be woken at 3am or something by a nearby haystack burning out of control and the car park being evacuated).Then we found my mate had lost my spare car key i'd entrusted him with in case i lost mine.

Some things about the gig look a bit dated now (Blue Monday live sounds kind of primitive in its pre Roger Lyons form) and those were long before the days of NO incorporating video backdrops into their live shows.Still, interesting to watch again after many years.

Also, the In Conversation thing is kind of interesting to watch again.When Miranda Sawyer asks about Taras Shevchenko, Michael Shamberg seems to say something about Peppermint Lounge.Something about it was either The Ukranian Home gig or the Peppermint Lounge gig.Maybe Peppermint Lounge was originally considered for release instead of Ukranian Home or PL was considered for putting on 3 16 instead of Taras Shevchenko? Maybe the video quality of Peppermint Lounge was considered not great enough to put out?

I always assumed they cut Reading to leave space for Taras Chav Wankers. This got my proverbial goat cos I would've preferred the full-length 98 and none of that done-to-death oldie. They lost complete songs and a lot of the banter that gave the gig part of its charm (Thanks, you've been a fucking brilliant audience. And we've been a fucking brilliant band.) The TF Perfecto mash up was performed at Apollo too, but the novelty has worn off over the last twenty years. The Melody Maker review said how well they seemed to be getting along, and this was when Hooky said the reunion made him the happiest man alive. Ouch. By a curious coincidence I was watching Item again and what really impressed me was Gillian's development as an artiste... From 3.46 to 3.58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re4aDJL3heA Through the end of RIAD To the final triumph of 2.06 to 2.10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXzs47qy2Pk What a performer.

^ Yeah maybe, but I thought they could still have fitted all of Reading on the disc. That footage is about 50 mins and Taras also about 50 mins and In Conversation about 25 mins so just over 120 mins total. A 3 hour film fits on one DVD disc doesn’t it?

I'm too much of a technophobe to comment, but maybe discs were shorter then. They edited the second DVD too, and that rather unfortunate BBC Radio 1 Live in Concert.

Will post more later, as I’m out at the moment.

But just wanted to comment on the fact that I hate when they cut songs out of live LPs / DVDs or rearrange the order. Spoils the flow of the gig (see that dreadful Academy video, for the full horror of this).

Also, as New Order fans, we’re used to the band completely fucking up. If a song doesn’t quite sound as good as the next, it really doesn’t phase us. We’ve heard worse.

However, wasn’t it the 5 11 Finsbury Park gig where they left off World In Motion? I listened to that track recently and was horrified. Just absolutely dreadful. (At least, I think it was Finsbury Park; correct me if I’m wrong).

More comments later, after sobering up...

Just to clarify- the files I obtained of Ceremony, LWTUA and Confusion at Reading 98 are NOT soundboard, they’re audience.The files were tagged by somebody as soundboard but they ain’t!

Just watching it now. Touched By The Hand Of God sounds great.

The 1998 gigs were just great. Went to the Apollo, Reading, Ally Pally and the Albert Square performance of Temptation for the Commonwealth Games handover ceremony. I only missed the MEN Arena gig as it was a bit close to the London gig and was over the chaotic Xmas period.

It was just amazing to see the four of them back together on stage. As it happens, the last set of gigs with the classic line-up.

The performances were great and the song choices were inspired. It was so good to see them to start doing JD numbers (although I think they should reign them in a little nowadays). To see songs like TBTHOG, Paradise, Confusion and In A Lonely Place (which they did at the Apollo). The performance of the latter is one of my 'New Order highlights' from the times I've seen them.

Isolation now playing on 3 16. Wonder why they introduced this as the last song they were going to play. I really don't remember them saying that at the gig.

Just finished watching the complete gig and the interview.

Yep - a great release. When you think that that DVD also contains Taras Shevchenko, we got good value for money on this.

The Reading gig is superb. Highlights for me include Touched, Heart & Soul, Isolation, Paradise and Temptation. Brings back great memories of that weekend.

The interview is really good too. Everybody in relaxed form. Seeing them all together, fooling around and happy in each other's company makes me kind of sad, when you think of what was to come. I'd forgotten how good it was as an interview. Interesting to see Barney & Hooky discuss what makes them different and why they each prefer the studio / live respectively.

Miranda Sawyer stating that Regret wasn't well-loved / reviewed at the time, isn't how I remember 1993 at all. I think most people loved Regret at the time and the reviews were kind, IIRC. Certainly by the time of Reading '93, the crowd went absolutely mad when that song came on.

I'm sure a 'sliding doors' version of perspexorange died at that gig, under the throbbing, manic crowd...

An old interview in the 80s in a country like france is magical . Hooky and Barny pick up and sip their drinks in unison ,and then replace them , and repeat the ritual . Precious !! In the states ,they might have tickled each other during some shows but not during the songs

Yes, the reaction to Regret WAS positive, to Repubelick less so, but I went through that on Dennis' thread.

perspexorange wrote:

The 1998 gigs were just great. Went to the Apollo, Reading, Ally Pally and the Albert Square performance of Temptation for the Commonwealth Games handover ceremony. I only missed the MEN Arena gig as it was a bit close to the London gig and was over the chaotic Xmas period. .

The MEN Arena one was bad. Strange line up with Underworld supporting but came on after NO. Band and crowd seemed flat, they stopped Guilty Partner which was a strange choice anyway. Too many JD songs for my liking and never a fan of Paradise or Fine Time live. At least they never played World in Motion. The horror!

Never thought this would herald the start of a decade of largely dreary Dad-Rock before their post-Hook disco stomping rebirth.

I too went to the MEN Arena gig Dec 98. Not a very memorable gig. Seem to recall Gillian only appeared for Blue Monday to play the keyboard but may have remembered that wrong! Underworld played after New Order, very late. Half the arena had cleared out by then so I grabbed a vacated seat to rest my legs. Didn’t go to Ally Pally a couple of nights later.

Yeah I remember Regret being very well received on its release and so was a bit puzzled by Miranda Sawyer’s comment in the 3 16 interview.

tapebias wrote: Never thought this would herald the start of a decade of largely dreary Dad-Rock before their post-Hook disco stomping rebirth.

Yeah. When they came back in '98, I hoped it would be the start of a golden patch of New Order, after the terrible 'remix-phase' of the mid 90s. Then we get Crystal, and I'm buzzing...

...then we get the rest of Get Ready and WFTSC, and the buzz completely went.

Still, MC is better than any of us could've hoped for and certainly more than we expected. A return to form.

Yeah the Get Ready and WFTSC eras were not , on the whole, career high points song wise ( though there was still some crackers like Crystal and Waiting For The Sirens Call ( the song) ) . But the WFTSC era was actually one of my favourite eras of the band because of the gigs and just simply the fact they were around . The Hyde Park gig in 2005 and Brixton gig later that same year I enjoyed immensely; a right laff in the mosh pit. The Brixton gig is possibly my favourite NO gig ever, one of the best nights of my life.

I missed the WFTSC era, gigswise. I went to the Olympia gig in 2001, which was pretty cool though. Billy 'Nasal Whine' Corgan on guitar (yay!) and guest vocals (boo!), which was nice for a change. Gillian was sitting a couple of rows behind me (it was weird sitting down at a New order gig; it felt totally wrong)

Then Get Ready came out and my interest slumped. I bought WFTSC on release date, but probably didn't listen to it for a days. I think, during the first few years of it having been released, I probably only played it 4-5 times. My interest was so 'flat', I don't even think I knew that New Order were touring, let alone actually going to the gigs.

In recent years, I've played both GR and WFTSC a lot more and really like quite a few tracks on both (Crystal, 60mph, Turn My Way, Primitive Notion, Someone Like You and Close Range off GR; Who's Joe, Hey Now..., WFTSC, Dracula's castle, Guilt Is... and Turn off WFTSC).

Looking back, I kind of wish I'd gone to some of the WFTSC gigs. It was the last chance to see Hooky in the band, I guess (however, it still didn't feel like NO without the wonderful Ms Gilbert).

perspexorange wrote: I missed the WFTSC era, gigswise. I went to the Olympia gig in 2001, which was pretty cool though. Billy 'Nasal Whine' Corgan on guitar (yay!) and guest vocals (boo!), which was nice for a change. Gillian was sitting a couple of rows behind me (it was weird sitting down at a New order gig; it felt totally wrong)

Yep. Absolutely. I’ve sat at 2 New Order gigs. Wembley Arena 87 was a horrible experience, sat right at the back of the hall and feeling confined to the seat when the urge to get up and jump around was constantly knawing away. I eventually couldn’t sit down any longer and kind of danced in the confined spot but then was aware I was blocking the view of people behind and felt guilty and sat back down. Ruined the whole night for me.

Only other time was Manc Apollo , Oct 2001. Was with a girlfriend at that gig so it was different, felt duty was to stay with her and not go into the mosh pit. Not that I’d have been granted access to the standing section anyway, our tickets were afterall for the seats.

I didn't make the gigs but the review line was that the first two were AWESOME and the second two i.e. Temptation were just carbon copies. It was cool to get them actually digging out mouldies but goldies, and broadcasting the Peel thing between the two 12/98 shows, though I've read that Guilty Partner didn't work live. Yes, the London years were a bumpy ride, like my mother. I didn't so much mind the long breaks and patchy efforts, but I did hate London's policy of 5476568968958 rehashes per newbie. It was the main reason I gave up being a cuntletist.