invisible limits - golden dreams (new order edit) and other Clones

anyone know whats up with this release.

did bernard work on it.. sounds new orderish enough.

andother related release to get.

and yes, the band did get more famous with love will tear us apart.

later -1

Wow, that is really terrible. I mean, most '80s German synthpop is bad, but at least enjoyable-bad.

Discogs claims New Order did an edit, but they're far more likely to have done a *remix*, unless it's mistranslated.

I've never heard of this band in conjunction with New Order at all. Considering the label is Pop FACTORY, and they covered LWTUA, I'm going to guess they were trying desperately to hitch their wagon to New Order by simply titling that mix "New Order Edit," and the band had zero to do with it.

50poundnote wrote: Wow, that is really terrible. I mean, most '80s German synthpop is bad, but at least enjoyable-bad.

Discogs claims New Order did an edit, but they're far more likely to have done a *remix*, unless it's mistranslated.

I've never heard of this band in conjunction with New Order at all. Considering the label is Pop FACTORY, and they covered LWTUA, I'm going to guess they were trying desperately to hitch their wagon to New Order by simply titling that mix "New Order Edit," and the band had zero to do with it.

is there any way to find out, or verify that they did or did not work on this release.

i never heard of them either, so when this came up i didn't know if there was a connection or not.

i don't think it's that bad of a song actually, she's got a decent voice, and that style of music was in at that time.

there are other bands like boxcar, that sounded almost exactly like new order clones, with freemason, and other tracks.

later -1

All the bands Barney or Peter worked with ended up on comps like Cool As Ice, Twice As Nice, The Quick Neat Job, and New Order Presents Be Music. They're always credited to Bemusic, if not Sumner by name, and they're all UK-based bands. In 1986 they wouldn't be doing an edit for an obscure German band, and in the 3+ decades since their name surely would have cropped up on bootlegs, tape trades, fan websites, etc.

And Boxcar may be a clone, but they're a good clone. Vertigo is the best New Order album not released by New Order.

50poundnote wrote: All the bands Barney or Peter worked with ended up on comps like Cool As Ice, Twice As Nice, The Quick Neat Job, and New Order Presents Be Music. They're always credited to Bemusic, if not Sumner by name, and they're all UK-based bands. In 1986 they wouldn't be doing an edit for an obscure German band, and in the 3+ decades since their name surely would have cropped up on bootlegs, tape trades, fan websites, etc.

And Boxcar may be a clone, but they're a good clone. Vertigo is the best New Order album not released by New Order.

Agreed about boxcar, they even got robert racic to work on some of the remixes and singles.

i got the remix album, and it was great too.

i think discogs people, just tagged the wrong credit on the song, so i guess i'll disregard it.

thanks for the information.

later -1

I'm a sucker for anything NO had a hand in and actually own this 7". Looked extensively for evidence of their involvement but never found it.

Arrived at the same conclusion as you guys.

50poundnote wrote:

And Boxcar may be a clone, but they're a good clone. Vertigo is the best New Order album not released by New Order.

They were the poor man's New Order down here at the time, and I duly bought a bunch of their 12"s.

Nice to hear them mentioned again.

Hailed from Brisbane so I bet Dennis Remmer has some stories.

depthcharge wrote: They were the poor man's New Order down here at the time, and I duly bought a bunch of their 12"s.

Nice to hear them mentioned again.

Hailed from Brisbane so I bet Dennis Remmer has some stories.

I'm a fan. I've got Vertigo, all the 12" and CD singles, and Revision (the collected remixes album).

I'm also a massive Severed Heads fan, and Stewart Lawler who was in Boxcar mkII, has toured with Tom in recent years.

i was really into techno remakes and versions back in the 90's.

I LOVED the elecroset - how does it feel, i think they are better versions than some of the other djs that tried remixing blue monday.

i have the US and UK CD singles: US

discogs.com/Electroset-How-Does-It-Feel/release/369734

UK https://www.discogs.com/Electroset-How-Does-It-Feel/release/190312

i just wish it had more lyrics.

of course, now i have to go back, and try adding them back into it. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

later -1

50poundnote wrote:

depthcharge wrote: They were the poor man's New Order down here at the time, and I duly bought a bunch of their 12"s.

Nice to hear them mentioned again.

Hailed from Brisbane so I bet Dennis Remmer has some stories.

I'm a fan. I've got Vertigo, all the 12" and CD singles, and Revision (the collected remixes album).

I'm also a massive Severed Heads fan, and Stewart Lawler who was in Boxcar mkII, has toured with Tom in recent years.

boxcar released a highway to he ll remixes for an ac/dc cover album in 2011:

https://www.discogs.com/Boxcar-H2H/release/5681823

Boxcar ‎– H2H Label: Not On Label ‎– none Format: 4 × File, MP3, Single, 320 kbps Country: Australia Released: 2011 Genre: Electronic Style: Synth-pop, Leftfield Tracklist 1 Highway To Hell (Radio) 4:12 2 Highway To Hell (12" Mix) 6:02 3 Superhighway To Hell 6:05 4 Highway To Hell (Radio Instrumental) 4:12 Total Time: 20:31

a 4rack live EP in 2014 https://www.discogs.com/Boxcar-Boxcar-Live-The-Wireless-Triple-J/release/5681851

Boxcar ‎– Boxcar Live @ The Wireless Triple J Label: Not On Label ‎– none Format: 4 × File, EP, 320 kbps Country: Australia Released: 04 Feb 2014 Genre: Electronic Style: Synth-pop, Leftfield Tracklist 1 Spirit 4:59 2 Universal Hymn 4:38 3 What Are You So Happy About? 4:06 4 Olive 3:31 Total Time: 17:14

and 4 comet remixes, one from robert racic in 2018:

https://www.discogs.com/Boxcar-Comet-Remixes/release/13344321

Boxcar ‎– Comet (Remixes) Label: Volition Music ‎– VOLT2183 Format: 4 × File, AAC, EP, Single Country: Australia Released: 01 Jun 2018 Genre: Electronic Style: Electro, Techno, Dub, Leftfield TracklistShow Credits 1 Comet (Racic Extended Mix) 5:17 2 Comet (Francis Xavier Remix) 6:41 3 Comet (Tronik Youth Remix) 5:35 4 Comet (Valley Forge Rework) 5:35 Total Time: 23:08

later -1

oh yeah, and boxcar did some insect remixes in 2017 (although i didn't care much for them), wished they had done freemason, or who do you think you are... love those ones..

https://www.discogs.com/Boxcar-Insect-Remixes/release/13344286

Boxcar ‎– Insect (Remixes) Label: Volition Music ‎– VOLT2181 Format: 6 × File, AAC, Single Country: Australia Released: 01 Dec 2017 Genre: Electronic Style: Electro, Techno, Dub, Leftfield TracklistShow Credits 1 Insect (Max Wolf vs. Boxcar Remix) 4:13 2 Dubsect (Racic Dub) 6:52 3 Insect (Tunnel Signs Classic Bass Dub) 6:46 4 Insect (Tunnel Signs & Johannes Klingebiel Dub) 6:25 5 Insect (Racic Radio Edit) 3:36 6 Insect (Racic Club Mix) 6:41 Total Time: 34:33

later -1

The Electroset one was excellent, they did one with INXS New Sensation but that didn't seem to be quite as good to me!

https://youtu.be/lbJWaf2PqF0

depthcharge wrote:

50poundnote wrote:

And Boxcar may be a clone, but they're a good clone. Vertigo is the best New Order album not released by New Order.

They were the poor man's New Order down here at the time, and I duly bought a bunch of their 12"s.

Nice to hear them mentioned again.

Hailed from Brisbane so I bet Dennis Remmer has some stories.

Cooled off on them but had their Vertigo album and accompanying singles at the time. Freemason nearly sounded more like a New Order/Pet Shop Boys hybrid than Electronic! I remember liking Gas Stop, but the video amped up the New Order imitations to uncomfortable levels.

negative1 wrote:

50poundnote wrote: All the bands Barney or Peter worked with ended up on comps like Cool As Ice, Twice As Nice, The Quick Neat Job, and New Order Presents Be Music. They're always credited to Bemusic, if not Sumner by name, and they're all UK-based bands. In 1986 they wouldn't be doing an edit for an obscure German band, and in the 3+ decades since their name surely would have cropped up on bootlegs, tape trades, fan websites, etc.

And Boxcar may be a clone, but they're a good clone. Vertigo is the best New Order album not released by New Order.

Agreed about boxcar, they even got robert racic to work on some of the remixes and singles.

i got the remix album, and it was great too.

i think discogs people, just tagged the wrong credit on the song, so i guess i'll disregard it.

thanks for the information.

later -1

Getting a bit more off topic here, but suspect you'd appreciate Moev. There were many permutations of the band, but the two albums they did with Dean Russell on vocals were excellent (the 2nd of them, Head Down, featuring a young Sarah McLachlan). I saw them open for Xymox in 1989, and both groups were superb live. Moev started the set with Capital Heaven, which sounded immense with it's percolating stabs of synth.

Capital Heaven

Yes, I LOVE Moev! Pretty much anything on Nettwerk, especially mid '80s to early '90s: Moev, Severed Heads, Skinny Puppy, Manufacture, Sarah McLachlan, Chris And Cosey, Single Gun Theory, Gary Clail's Tackhead Sound System, Bel Canto, MC 900 Ft Jesus, Hilt, Gruesome Twosome, Consolidated - I have all those records.

50poundnote wrote: Yes, I LOVE Moev! Pretty much anything on Nettwerk, especially mid '80s to early '90s: Moev, Severed Heads, Skinny Puppy, Manufacture, Sarah McLachlan, Chris And Cosey, Single Gun Theory, Gary Clail's Tackhead Sound System, Bel Canto, MC 900 Ft Jesus, Hilt, Gruesome Twosome, Consolidated - I have all those records.

i have a lot of those singles also, was also into a lot of wax trax groups, ministry, skinny puppy, front 242 etc. along with frontline assembly and nitzer ebb. a lot of industrial sounding bands.

later -1

50poundnote wrote: Yes, I LOVE Moev! Pretty much anything on Nettwerk, especially mid '80s to early '90s: Moev, Severed Heads, Skinny Puppy, Manufacture, Sarah McLachlan, Chris And Cosey, Single Gun Theory, Gary Clail's Tackhead Sound System, Bel Canto, MC 900 Ft Jesus, Hilt, Gruesome Twosome, Consolidated - I have all those records.

Was primarily directed at -1 but believe many fans of New Order would like Moev. They are far less guitar-oriented (although bass guitar is heavily featured), but if you like the more dark and menacing New Order tracks synth tracks like 586 and This Time of Night, Moev might be up your alley.

Andy wrote:

negative1 wrote:

50poundnote wrote: All the bands Barney or Peter worked with ended up on comps like Cool As Ice, Twice As Nice, The Quick Neat Job, and New Order Presents Be Music. They're always credited to Bemusic, if not Sumner by name, and they're all UK-based bands. In 1986 they wouldn't be doing an edit for an obscure German band, and in the 3+ decades since their name surely would have cropped up on bootlegs, tape trades, fan websites, etc.

And Boxcar may be a clone, but they're a good clone. Vertigo is the best New Order album not released by New Order.

Agreed about boxcar, they even got robert racic to work on some of the remixes and singles.

i got the remix album, and it was great too.

i think discogs people, just tagged the wrong credit on the song, so i guess i'll disregard it.

thanks for the information.

later -1

Getting a bit more off topic here, but suspect you'd appreciate Moev. There were many permutations of the band, but the two albums they did with Dean Russell on vocals were excellent (the 2nd of them, Head Down, featuring a young Sarah McLachlan). I saw them open for Xymox in 1989, and both groups were superb live. Moev started the set with Capital Heaven, which sounded immense with it's percolating stabs of synth.

Capital Heaven

It's also worth giving a shout out to early Clan of Xymox/Xymox. They were never trendsetters at the time, sounding like a mix of previous styles popularized by New Order, The Cure and The Sisters of Mercy, but that doesn't really matter now. Their first four albums saw them refine their style, becoming more accomplished (and commercial) as they progressed. Their 4th LP actually sounds like a hybrid of Technique and Disintegration!

A Day 1st album

Louise 2nd album

Evelyn 3rd album (...although Imagination with the lovely bassist Anka singing was actually the hit)

Written in the Stars 4th album

Always loved Clan Of Xymox' 'Cry In The Wind'. Now that is a fine piece of post-punk:

Andy wrote:

Andy wrote:

Getting a bit more off topic here, but suspect you'd appreciate Moev. There were many permutations of the band, but the two albums they did with Dean Russell on vocals were excellent (the 2nd of them, Head Down, featuring a young Sarah McLachlan). I saw them open for Xymox in 1989, and both groups were superb live. Moev started the set with Capital Heaven, which sounded immense with it's percolating stabs of synth.

Capital Heaven

It's also worth giving a shout out to early Clan of Xymox/Xymox. They were never trendsetters at the time, sounding like a mix of previous styles popularized by New Order, The Cure and The Sisters of Mercy, but that doesn't really matter now. Their first four albums saw them refine their style, becoming more accomplished (and commercial) as they progressed. Their 4th LP actually sounds like a hybrid of Technique and Disintegration!

A Day 1st album

Louise 2nd album

Evelyn 3rd album (...although Imagination with the lovely bassist Anka singing was actually the hit)

Written in the Stars 4th album

yes, i have a few select albums and singles from MOEV, thanks.

love early clan of xymox, and have all of those, and the singles too.

they're still doing music, touring, lost track of them in the 90's, but they've kept on going, and going, and going.

later -1

here's my US / UK electroset cd's i put in a Z pack:

still need to get the vinyl versions, and other assorted variations.

later -1

negative1 wrote:

Andy wrote:

Andy wrote:

Getting a bit more off topic here, but suspect you'd appreciate Moev. There were many permutations of the band, but the two albums they did with Dean Russell on vocals were excellent (the 2nd of them, Head Down, featuring a young Sarah McLachlan). I saw them open for Xymox in 1989, and both groups were superb live. Moev started the set with Capital Heaven, which sounded immense with it's percolating stabs of synth.

Capital Heaven

It's also worth giving a shout out to early Clan of Xymox/Xymox. They were never trendsetters at the time, sounding like a mix of previous styles popularized by New Order, The Cure and The Sisters of Mercy, but that doesn't really matter now. Their first four albums saw them refine their style, becoming more accomplished (and commercial) as they progressed. Their 4th LP actually sounds like a hybrid of Technique and Disintegration!

A Day 1st album

Louise 2nd album

Evelyn 3rd album (...although Imagination with the lovely bassist Anka singing was actually the hit)

Written in the Stars 4th album

yes, i have a few select albums and singles from MOEV, thanks.

love early clan of xymox, and have all of those, and the singles too.

they're still doing music, touring, lost track of them in the 90's, but they've kept on going, and going, and going.

later -1

After that 4th album (Phoenix), the band splintered. They had signed to a major label but, as I mentioned, were always a bit late to the party. They weren't able to generate enough sales in the '90's as trends started to drift away from that style popularized by New Order, The Cure, etc in the '80's. Their 5th album was essentially a solo effort by Ronny Moorings (the Billy Corgan of the band, I suppose). He decided to go in a techno direction for a couple of albums but, again, wasn't exactly breaking new ground. His first Xymox single release spotlighting the new direction, Dream On, was disappointing. Made even more so by the excellent b-side, Soul Free, which hearkened back to the synthpop style of the previous 2 LPs. After the techno stuff was out of his system, he assembled a new band which embraces a dour goth style that I didn't think the original Clan of Xymox was really a part of. I stopped buying their stuff long ago so can't say if anything they've released after the '90's is actually any good.

A final tidbit before I shut up about Xymox: I saw them live in 1989 and 1991, and they were, without a doubt, the next best thing to New Order in terms of combining live instruments and synths/programming. At least at the time. They were actually a bit more practiced and proficient at their instruments than New Order (bar Stephen Morris, of course) but weren't show offs with solos and that type of garbage. Yet there was a similarity in concept and attitude. I'm not sure if it's because they're from the Netherlands or not but they seemed straightforward and humble. They weren't showbizzy. I was a bit surprised because the photos of them at the time made them look like a cross between Gene Loves Jezebel and Thompson Twins. I had expected more posing and posturing. But when Anka took her turn at the mic in 1989 to sing 7th Time, Ronny put down his guitar and took her bass. Presumably because she wasn't so accomplished at singing and playing at the same time.

I would pay good money to see a reformation of the original group.

Andy wrote: A final tidbit before I shut up about Xymox: I saw them live in 1989 and 1991, and they were, without a doubt, the next best thing to New Order in terms of combining live instruments and synths/programming. At least at the time. They were actually a bit more practiced and proficient at their instruments than New Order (bar Stephen Morris, of course) but weren't show offs with solos and that type of garbage. Yet there was a similarity in concept and attitude. I'm not sure if it's because they're from the Netherlands or not but they seemed straightforward and humble. They weren't showbizzy. I was a bit surprised because the photos of them at the time made them look like a cross between Gene Loves Jezebel and Thompson Twins. I had expected more posing and posturing. But when Anka took her turn at the mic in 1989 to sing 7th Time, Ronny put down his guitar and took her bass. Presumably because she wasn't so accomplished at singing and playing at the same time.

I would pay good money to see a reformation of the original group.

they've had at least 10 albums or more since the 90's.

i've heard the live album from 2000, and it was pretty good: https://www.discogs.com/Clan-Of-Xymox-Live/master/55580

Clan Of Xymox ‎– Live Genre: Electronic, Rock Style: New Wave, Goth Rock, Synth-pop Year: 2000 Tracklist Stranger 8:08 Cry In The Wind 5:48 This World 6:35 Jasmine & Rose 5:51 A Day 6:50 Louise 5:53 Creature 5:09 Back Door 5:01 Out Of The Rain 4:14 Taste Of Medicine 7:50 Going Round '97 6:20 Obsession 5:52 Muscoviet Mosquito 4:17 Michelle 2:54 Craving 5:45 Consolation 5:04 Agonized By Love 3:20 Hypocrite 4:54 The Story Ends 5:05 Jasmine & Rose 5:56 Stranger 8:13 Total Time: 1:58:59

there's the john peel sessions from 2001: https://www.discogs.com/Clan-Of-Xymox-The-John-Peel-Sessions/master/193291

Clan Of Xymox ‎– The John Peel Sessions Genre: Rock Style: New Wave, Goth Rock Year: 2001 Tracklist Stranger 5:30 Muscoviet Mosquito 3:59 Seventh Time 4:45 After The Call 7:20 Agonised By Love 5:03 Mesmerised 6:16 Total Time: 32:53

and the early demos: https://www.discogs.com/Clan-Of-Xymox-Early-Demos/master/1386263

Clan Of Xymox ‎– Early Demos Genre: Electronic, Rock Style: Darkwave, New Wave, Post-Punk Year: 2015 Tracklist Stranger (Demo 1982) 7th Time (Demo 1982) Stumble & Fall (IDEM) A Day (IDEM) Equal Ways (IDEM) Back Door (Demo 1983) A Day (Live Rehearsal 1984) 7th Time (Live Rehearsal 1984) Moscoviet Mosquito (Live Rehearsal 1984) Stumble & Fall (Live Rehearsal 1984) Lorrentine Medusa After The Call Louise A Day (Live Radio 1985) Muscoviet Mosquito (Live Radio 1985) Michelle Louise 1st Ever Several Times 1st Ever Back Door Dreamland 1st Ever A Day All Fold Up Here It's Raining Again (Rejected Demo) 1st Ever Stranger Wonderland Xymox #4 (Rejected Demo) Xymox #2 (Rejected Demo)

so, lots of classic stuff out there.

later -1

The demos are primitive but good. I actually prefer the demo of Stumble and Fall to the version on the first album. It has more of a Kraftwerk feel to it.

the greatest hits from 2004 were re-recordings. but i got it anyways. it's not bad either.

didn't know half the songs.

later -1

I have been giving Clan Of Xymox more of a listen these last couple of days (as previously mentioned, I've always liked two or three tracks). Really liking what I've heard.

I'm able to stream the first LP, Medusa and Subsequent Pleasures (amongst others) on Apple Music. However, I'd rather like to hear the Peel Sessions and Early Demos LP. Anybody able to point me in the direction of where I might be able to hear these (they go for silly money on Discogs, especially Early Demos - £120! Yikes!).

Just to add to the thread, a band I love that I think others might like are 'For Against'. I wouldn't say they're New Order clones at all, but I'm sure that most NO fans would like them. They're more 'dreampop' than NO and have some elements of Cocteaus about them (but without Liz Frazer's vocals).

If you want to check out anything, try the following especially:

Echelons (first LP) December (second LP) In The Marshes (compilation of early material) Black Soap EP (again, early songs)

Here's the song that got me hooked:

They're from Lincoln, Nebraska, but they were influenced by UK bands on Factory and 4AD. They're ridiculously good.

I hear quite a bit of early Sisters of Mercy influence in that track.

Andy wrote: I hear quite a bit of early Sisters of Mercy influence in that track.

i have the 'this corrosion' remix:

and love it, i have the 12 inch, and something else from them that's a cd-single, but comes in a 12 inch sleeve.

i had no idea the album version was even longer and more epic, until about a year ago, when my friend gave me their album compilation boxset.

great song.

later -1

I was thinking more the early singles and first LP, although I also appreciate their later stuff to a lesser extent.

I finally saw them live in 1991, and they did not disappoint.

Bonus: Danielle Dax was the opening act. I really, really tried to appreciate her music, but have to admit that it was her appearance that held the main appeal.