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Time for the original fab 4 to hop on a plane and go play LWTUA/True Faith in 'murica. Innit.
Dates
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Joy Division/New Order among 2023 *AND 2025* Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame nominees
Archived50 replies · 35,550 views
This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.
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Wow!
Well that was unexpected!
Is it April 1st? (not that I'm saying they don't deserve it - they obviously do; it just seems unlikely that they'd consider them, based on past nominees).
Not sure how I feel about this. Kind of pleased, I think.
If they get inducted, do we think Hooky will perform with them? ;-)
good for them.
more discussion in general: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/2023-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees.1166615/
later -1
Man - Cyndi Lauper sure has a lot of fans https://vote.rockhall.com/en/results/
Bit weird, as she surely didn't have more than a handful of hits. I think I can name 2 possibly 3?
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I've always felt that the HoF is a bit of a weird thing. It's kind of pointless and there's always been a slant towards American music.
I admit that I don't know much about Warren Zevon (and I'm sure he has many worthy attributes as a song writer) but I doubt that many people in, say, the UK will have ever heard of him. In fact, up until about 10 years ago, I don't think I'd heard 'Werewolves Of London', which is the only one of his songs that I know (I believe he wrote for others, such as Linda Ronstadt etc., so maybe there are others I know).
I very much doubt JD/NO will make the cut, mainly because of geographical politics.
I mean look at that current Kate Bush score. In this country she's pretty much treated like a god, but the majority of our American cousins barely know any of her records.
A good example of this geographical problem is that JD/NO got inducted into the short-lived UK HoF in either the first or second year of asking, yet it's taken years for an even a nomination in the US version.
For what it's worth, if I was going to do a full 'five act' vote, I'd go for:
JD/NO - Obviously. They changed music. Kate Bush - She really shaped British music in the 80s. However, apart from a handful of songs, I've never been a big fan of her music (I will say though that, music aside, I had a MASSIVE crush on Ms Bush when I was a teen. I probably still do, truth be told). Iron Maiden - I'm no fan of them, but they are still an important band. I don't think Metal gets the recognition it probably deserves (despite me not liking it particularly). Willie Nelson - he's a Country great. Seen as if they are accepting C&W stars now (see Dolly Parton), he should be in there.
I'm struggling with a fifth.
Soundgarden maybe, given their history and impact on grunge etc. And possibly as I like a few of their songs (which I also do with White Stripes and RATM). George Michael maybe. Similar to Bush in his ability to craft great songs (again, although I'm not a fan).
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I'm not feeling particularly hopeful as I've seen this seemingly arbitrary process go wrong in the past, but I do hope they get inducted. Not because the honour means a lot to me (or probably the group). I think it would be good for the exposure, recognition and hopefully music sales that could result.
But then there's the induction ceremony. I don't think I'm in a lonely place in wondering how it would all play out. Do we think a performance is guaranteed? We don't even know if they would agree to be together for the induction speech! I suppose there could be a Joy Division performance by The Light, with the current lineup of New Order following with their set. But that would require compromises by not only the band members, but the R&RHoF organizers to accomodate their beef.
I remember one of those Hooky/Jack chats where he said he was convinced that the reason that the band hadn’t had a nomination was because of the inevitable crap that would happen at the ceremony.
He may have a point.
Anyone know if either party has acknowledged the nomination yet?
There have been a few car crashes at the RNRHOF:
Blondie 2006 Van Halen 2007 Kiss 2014
The band don't have to perform (as Kiss and Van Halen didn't) but the question will be if Hooky can behave himself when the members take to the stage to have a few words.
perspexorange wrote: I remember one of those Hooky/Jack chats where he said he was convinced that the reason that the band hadn’t had a nomination was because of the inevitable crap that would happen at the ceremony.
He may have a point.
Anyone know if either party has acknowledged the nomination yet?
Yep - Hooky has mentioned it in Billboard and is up for performing. Says it could be the olive branch they need!
I reckon Bernard should draft in a Hook lookalike (a Hookalike, if you like) for the event. Like Hooky did for Ian at those gigs a couple of years back.
Never followed this hall of fame thing. So, there's a list of nominees each year and out of those, half of them are voted by a board to be inducted? Or just one is inducted?😕
Fotz wrote: Never followed this hall of fame thing. So, there's a list of nominees each year and out of those, half of them are voted by a board to be inducted? Or just one is inducted?😕
I believe it's between five and seven inductees each year. Pulled from the list of nominees.
I seem to think that it's partly a 'panel vote' by members of some organisation, plus a 'fan vote'. Not sure which has the majority, but it seems likely that the panel will 'lead' the event. That way they may be able to ensure that there is inclusion etc. rather than it being a pure popularity contest.
I might be wrong.
Band politics jokes aside (see my previous post), it would be kind of cool for the four of them to appear on stage together. Doubtful though, sadly.
I think I'm coming around to the idea of this HoF thing. But I doubt they'll make it in.
duran duran recently got in.
despite 2 of their former guitarists being there. andy recently had cancer diagnosis so that was an issue.
but warren cuccurillo was acknowledged but not there.
duran duran did perform.
later -1
Just voted again: NO/JD are currently in seventh place with 80949 votes, about 18,000 behind Willie Nelson in fifth so it looks like we won't have to worry about whether New Order will have an onstage reunion with Peter ![[:(]](/emoticons/frown.gif){kind=small}
The fact that the first two places are taken by Cyndi Lauper and George Michael, with over 130,000 votes each says it all about just how 'rock & roll' this is.
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Ken Doherty wrote:
Just voted again: NO/JD are currently in seventh place with 80949 votes, about 18,000 behind Willie Nelson in fifth so it looks like we won't have to worry about whether New Order will have an onstage reunion with Peter
These are ALL the nominees, 5 or more of whom will get in via the votes of HoF members. I know a handful of voters, and they're all voting for JD/NO, Kate Bush, and Maiden.
The fan vote really only factors in as you get further down the list, around 6th or 7th place.
"Rock" refers to the popular music era starting in the late 50's, which is why they include hip hop and country artists, or people you wouldn't normally associate with rock and roll. Cyndi Lauper absolutely deserves to be in - there's a lot more to her than a handful of pop hits in the '80s. A lot of people would be looking at New Order through the same lens - they didn't have big hits, they didn't sell out arenas (before now), but their impact is profound.
According to Paul Stanley of KISS, a reason his band did not perform at their RnRHoF induction ceremony is because the Rock Hall insisted it be with the original members. If this is true, I don't imagine we'll see a performance from New Order if they make the cut.
I'm not suggesting you need to read it, but here's the article for reference: NME.Com
Hmm. Interesting.
I seem to remember that Blondie performed with non-original members. Perhaps things have changed since then.
perspexorange wrote: Hmm. Interesting.
I seem to remember that Blondie performed with non-original members. Perhaps things have changed since then.
True.
This was "according to Paul Stanley", so who knows. He did say it was among other reasons...
I did like that Ace Frehley threatened to reveal "career-ending" details about a band who has long overstayed their welcome and is currently in the midst of a farewell tour.
Always love Peter Criss’ make-up.
There was that skit on Family Guy where they dressed up as Kiss and one of them said they didn’t want to be Peter Criss, presumably because of the shit cat-makeup. To which one of them said ‘Even Peter Criss doesn’t want to be Peter Criss’.
Funny stuff.
I’ve always suspected that most of the Kiss conflicts could’ve been resolved if they all had decent face-designs. :-D
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Andy wrote: According to Paul Stanley of KISS
I'm very active in the KISS fan forums. Paul's story is bullshit. The reason the originals didn't perform is 1. Paul's voice went rapidly downhill following surgery in 2009, to the point that he uses prerecorded vocals now. It would have been evident at a Rock Hall performance, and 2. he will say and do anything to minimize and delegitimize the contributions of Peter Criss and Ace Frehley to prop up the travesty that is having Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer currently performing wearing their makeup.
Sometimes reunions happen, sometimes they don't, and sometimes artists don't show up at all. There's no hard and fast rule about it.
So, any chance our heroes might get in?
I’m 50:50 on the whole ‘they totally deserve it’ verses ‘it’s just a load of pandering to music executives’.
I think, on the whole, I’d be happy if they made it, but completely non-plussed if they didn’t.
FYI - the "fan vote" only counts as ONE additional ballot in addition to the votes cast by the approximately 1,000 official Hall of Fame voting members. In the other words, the fan vote is essentially meaningless. For example, Dave Matthews Band won the fan vote in 2020 (i.e., they had the most fan votes), but were still not inducted.
-Mike
Yeah - I wondered this. Seem to remember hearing something like this a few years back. Tried to find evidence of this online when I saw the band were nominated, but couldn't see anything. I probably fluffed the search terms I should've used. Thanks for confirming this.
I have a theory that the the HoF organisation quite likes to induct bands with historic beef/contentious line-ups as a way to drum up publicity and attention for their otherwise meaningless organisation. So they get column inches over the will they/won't they story and potentially a one-off reconciliation if everyone agrees to play nice
On that basis I think JD/NO tick all their boxes - certainly when you look at how dull the other nominees are this year
GotBlueEyes wrote: I have a theory that the the HoF organisation quite likes to induct bands with historic beef/contentious line-ups as a way to drum up publicity and attention for their otherwise meaningless organisation. So they get column inches over the will they/won't they story and potentially a one-off reconciliation if everyone agrees to play nice
On that basis I think JD/NO tick all their boxes - certainly when you look at how dull the other nominees are this year
Ha ha! 😄 I don't know if you're right but I like this post anyway! (Well you are right about the "meaningless" stuff and the dull stuff.) Hooky is the only one who has been banging on about this on social media, encouraging people to vote. The others have said nothing. Even if they get nominated, I bet the others would say: nah we're busy, we'll do a video thing and Hooky can go if he wants.
Interesting article on the process by a journalist who also happens to be a Rock Hall voter. He gives his reasons (some strategic) for why each of this year's nominees get his vote or not. Spoiler alert, he didn't vote for JD/NO (he rightfully believes they deserve seperate inductions and he is fairly certain they're going to get in without his vote anyway).
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Andy wrote: Denial: Vulture.com
Ah well.
At least Sheryl Crow, with her 'pioneering' blend (bland?) of AoR, got in. A true visionary.
The Pistols were right. It is a piss-stain.
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I voted three or four times (mainly because The Lights Facebook and Instagram fees kept posting about it on a daily basis) but the fact that George Michael and Sheryl Crow got in says it all about just how 'rock' this is: last time I voted, Missy Elliott was near the bottom of the votes cast so I'm thinking since then someone was paid to bombard the site with 'bots, but as I'm never likely to even be in the same state as the Hall of Fame let alone go in to see whats in there I think I can let this one go.
I'm sure they will be nominated again at some point so the dream of a Hooky and New Order reunion lives on...
Ken Doherty wrote: last time I voted, Missy Elliott was near the bottom of the votes cast so I'm thinking since then someone was paid to bombard the site with 'bots
The fan vote collectively counts as one vote for the winner, alongside all the official votes from HOF voters. All of the nominees were eligible for the fan vote, and a certain number of them were going to get voted in regardless of their fan vote total. Missy may have been near the bottom, but it's the official voters who put her in.
I'm surprised JD/NO didn't get in, but I think they will. This was Kate Bush's fourth year as a nominee.
50poundnote wrote:
Ken Doherty wrote: last time I voted, Missy Elliott was near the bottom of the votes cast so I'm thinking since then someone was paid to bombard the site with 'bots
The fan vote collectively counts as one vote for the winner, alongside all the official votes from HOF voters. All of the nominees were eligible for the fan vote, and a certain number of them were going to get voted in regardless of their fan vote total. Missy may have been near the bottom, but it's the official voters who put her in.
I'm surprised JD/NO didn't get in, but I think they will. This was Kate Bush's fourth year as a nominee.
Yes, the Fan Vote is essentially just a promotion tool to try to get people engaged. I don't know how many Rock Hall voters there actually are, but it seems to me as though the votes could be easily manipulated to ensure there is a diverse group of inductees each year. They wouldn't want the class of 2023 to be all white guys/bands, for instance. I do believe, based on the Uproxx article in my earlier post, that the voters do tend put their vote towards a worthy artist that has multiple previous nominations over a first time nominee.
Andy wrote: Yes, the Fan Vote is essentially just a promotion tool to try to get people engaged. I don't know how many Rock Hall voters there actually are, but it seems to me as though the votes could be easily manipulated to ensure there is a diverse group of inductees each year. They wouldn't want the class of 2023 to be all white guys/bands, for instance. I do believe, based on the Uproxx article in my earlier post, that the voters do tend put their vote towards a worthy artist that has multiple previous nominations over a first time nominee.
I know 3 voters personally. One of them will only vote for women. Another will only vote for underdogs he feels won't get the larger vote.
Tom Morello of Rage Against The Machine is a voter, so his band was going to get in.
It's all politics, just like anything else these days. I'm very happy Kate got in, and I will go back to ignoring the Hall until other artists I like make it. :)
I don't feel any need for the band(s) to be regarded as worthy of a Hall of Fame or considered to be God-like Geniuses. My ears tell me all I need to know. (Plus the occasion bit of education from this place.)
Andy wrote: Not nominated this year 😄
They will be again. I think there will need to be more of a shift toward the younger voters before they get in, though.
This year's nominees aren't very exciting.
50poundnote wrote:
Andy wrote: Not nominated this year 😄
They will be again. I think there will need to be more of a shift toward the younger voters before they get in, though.
This year's nominees aren't very exciting.
They're rightly trying to distance themselves from the statements Jann Wenner made last year. They're scaling back on groups of white guys.
For those interested, here are this year's nominees: vote.rockhall.com
Andy wrote: They're scaling back on groups of white guys.
We are, after all, all that's evil and toxic in the world. If modern media (especially Hollywood) is to be believed.
Back once again like a renegade master. Or something.
If Oasis make it in before JD/NO, I'll go absolutely nuts - for at least three seconds. Then I'll forget about it and get on with my life.
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Vote in the link below. But not for Phish or Oasis.
[TWITTER]1889719377127203119[/TWITTER]
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Oasis feel like a shoo-in given the much-lauded reformation.
Means the Hall Of Fame will get their "band with long-standing beef" back together publicity and JD/NO will miss out again
A shame as Hooky's Olive branch must have grown a few leaves in the past two years ![[:d]](/emoticons/biggrin.gif){kind=small}
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Can't say I'm too bothered by this. It means very little to me (but maybe it does to the band themselves). Their place in rock history is assured; they don't need an award for that.
The only thing I'm interested in is, if they do get accepted, what the Hell will happen re the Hooky/rest of band situation? Could either be: a) fab to see Hooky play with them again, even if it's for just one more time; or b) incredibly messy, with mud slung in all directions.
Either way, I'm bringing a picnic.
I'm not too fussed about the honour either but would perfer to see them recognized rather than not.
I'll try to remember to vote each day but will not be selecting the seven options. I will only put in for JD/NO so as not to dilute my vote.
perspexorange wrote: Can't say I'm too bothered by this. It means very little to me (but maybe it does to the band themselves). Their place in rock history is assured; they don't need an award for that.
The only thing I'm interested in is, if they do get accepted, what the Hell will happen re the Hooky/rest of band situation? Could either be: a) fab to see Hooky play with them again, even if it's for just one more time; or b) incredibly messy, with mud slung in all directions.
Either way, I'm bringing a picnic.
Agree with most of that. Hooky would love the adulation, don't think the rest are bothered. Nominee/nomination are my least favourite words in the dictionary. Slightly unrelated but Hooky & The Boys are gearing up to play Get Ready in it's entirety - don't understand that at all lol.
Entertaining interview with John Mulaney regarding this year's Rock Hall inductees and snubs. I knew he was a music fan as his show's musical guests are very eclectic. But I was especially impressed with his knowledge of most of the artists. His fondness for JD/NO is pretty deep into the article if you just want to scoll to that. Apparently "Disorder" holds a lot of meaning for him (mentioning specific lyrics he relates to his struggles with substance abuse). Well worth your time.
