Mapping The Definitive Editions - Technique

The Happy One, uncut, as recorded.

50poundnote wrote:

The Happy One, uncut, as recorded.

Amen to that!

Any abandoned single mixes of "Vanishing Point" that could potentially exist would also be very nice to have.

-Mike

The OSM version just with Hooky would be good for the DVDs. I actually prefer that version, it has a better intro. Be good if the Technique Promo vids were included and I remember seeing the original footage of the Round & Round models being interviewed. There must be more material to choose from as they were a much bigger deal by 1989.

Weird that some GMEX 88 footage is included in this box set as that’s Technique era in my eyes.

steinomite wrote: Any abandoned single mixes of "Vanishing Point" that could potentially exist would also be very nice to have.

I have an edit that was done in '89 for a possible single, then resurfaced in '94 for The Best Of, which is why it's included on the UK pressing. It clocks in at 3:59, which is over a minute shorter than the album version.

not too interested in this one.

but will get it for completion if they do make one.

later | | || || | ne gative 1

My favourite NO album.

Would love to hear the Vanishing Point demo which had different lyrics. Apparently, this did leak at some point. If anyone has this, PLEASE get in touch.

perspexorange wrote: My favourite NO album.

Would love to hear the Vanishing Point demo which had different lyrics. Apparently, this did leak at some point. If anyone has this, PLEASE get in touch.

The fact that Stephen has mentioned this version in a Listening Party points to it being likely for inclusion.

50poundnote wrote:

steinomite wrote: Any abandoned single mixes of "Vanishing Point" that could potentially exist would also be very nice to have.

I have an edit that was done in '89 for a possible single, then resurfaced in '94 for The Best Of, which is why it's included on the UK pressing. It clocks in at 3:59, which is over a minute shorter than the album version.

Though it probably hadn't progressed to the edit/mixing stage like "Vanishing Point", I've always been intrigued by the legend that "Mr. Disco" was going to be a single. "Vanishing Point" was apparently the band's choice for lead single, before Rob Gretton talked them out of it. But the legend about "Mr. Disco" is that it was supposedly discouraged by U.S. marketing wizards because the word Disco was by then a dirty word that would tank sales.

Making out soundtrack recordings without the dialogue over would be interesting

At least this thread won't turn into a Substance discussion - Andy will be pleased

Like No Other wrote: At least this thread won't turn into a Substance discussion - Andy will be pleased

This does raise a question, though - as the first post-Substance album, will the 12” single mixes be included in the box?

50poundnote wrote:

steinomite wrote: Any abandoned single mixes of "Vanishing Point" that could potentially exist would also be very nice to have.

I have an edit that was done in '89 for a possible single, then resurfaced in '94 for The Best Of, which is why it's included on the UK pressing. It clocks in at 3:59, which is over a minute shorter than the album version.

I wasn't aware the single edit of 'Vanishing Point' had ever surfaced. Would love to hear it..... [DM hint...]

Mr Discography wrote:

50poundnote wrote:

steinomite wrote: Any abandoned single mixes of "Vanishing Point" that could potentially exist would also be very nice to have.

I have an edit that was done in '89 for a possible single, then resurfaced in '94 for The Best Of, which is why it's included on the UK pressing. It clocks in at 3:59, which is over a minute shorter than the album version.

I wasn't aware the single edit of 'Vanishing Point' had ever surfaced. Would love to hear it..... [DM hint...]

Me too!

50poundnote wrote:

steinomite wrote: Any abandoned single mixes of "Vanishing Point" that could potentially exist would also be very nice to have.

I have an edit that was done in '89 for a possible single, then resurfaced in '94 for The Best Of, which is why it's included on the UK pressing. It clocks in at 3:59, which is over a minute shorter than the album version.

Wasn’t there Marmion remixes commissioned for Vanishlng Point? ‘Schöneberg’ was massive in the clubs in 1994 and I’m sure I read that they were working on VP around this time.

EmileStrunz wrote:

50poundnote wrote:

steinomite wrote: Any abandoned single mixes of "Vanishing Point" that could potentially exist would also be very nice to have.

I have an edit that was done in '89 for a possible single, then resurfaced in '94 for The Best Of, which is why it's included on the UK pressing. It clocks in at 3:59, which is over a minute shorter than the album version.

Wasn’t there Marmion remixes commissioned for Vanishlng Point? ‘Schöneberg’ was massive in the clubs in 1994 and I’m sure I read that they were working on VP around this time.

I read somewhere that a Utah Saints remix was also done around the time of 'The Best Of'

EmileStrunz wrote:

50poundnote wrote:

steinomite wrote: Any abandoned single mixes of "Vanishing Point" that could potentially exist would also be very nice to have.

I have an edit that was done in '89 for a possible single, then resurfaced in '94 for The Best Of, which is why it's included on the UK pressing. It clocks in at 3:59, which is over a minute shorter than the album version.

Wasn’t there Marmion remixes commissioned for Vanishlng Point? ‘Schöneberg’ was massive in the clubs in 1994 and I’m sure I read that they were working on VP around this time.

There's a Marmion remix of The Perfect Kiss (that was unreleased), they later reworked it into a new track of their own (can't remember what it was called though).

50poundnote wrote:

Like No Other wrote: At least this thread won't turn into a Substance discussion - Andy will be pleased

This does raise a question, though - as the first post-Substance album, will the 12” single mixes be included in the box?

Possibly, as there isn't as much material from the period. Presumbably some of the "Blue Monday 1988" mixes will feature, despite the previously unreleased Michael Johnson mix on the Brotherhood set. And then "World in Motion". But I don't think people want every track from those singles padding the box set when you consider they only featured mixes and not proper b-sides.

The other thing of note is the fact that, presumably, there will be seven accompanying 12” singles:

Fine Time Fine Time Remix Round & Round Round & Remix Run 2 World In Motion World In Motion Remix

That’s a lot of records.

It’s presumably going to be just as ‘busy’ for Republic, with the four LP singles plus 12”s for True Faith-94, 1963-95 & Blue Monday-95.

Andy wrote:

50poundnote wrote:

Like No Other wrote: At least this thread won't turn into a Substance discussion - Andy will be pleased

This does raise a question, though - as the first post-Substance album, will the 12” single mixes be included in the box?

Possibly, as there isn't as much material from the period. Presumbably some of the "Blue Monday 1988" mixes will feature, despite the previously unreleased Michael Johnson mix on the Brotherhood set. And then "World in Motion". But I don't think people want every track from those singles padding the box set when you consider they only featured mixes and not proper b-sides.

I wouldn't expect any more 'Blue Monday 1988' mixes to appear on the 'Technique' set - it's been covered in the re-released 12" and the 'Brotherhood' set.

From 'Technique' onwards, we're really getting into the realms of the DJ remixes. I'd rather save those for the 12" reissues, and have demos, outtakes/alternate takes, instrumentals and rarities on the bonus CD in future sets - much more interesting than regurgitated remixes many of us already have. Just hope there's enough of that to fill up a bonus CD.

Still hoping there will be a reissue of all the 7" singles, even if just digitally. Would be great to finally get the 7" edits of 'Hurt', 'Lonesome Tonight' and the many dub versions out digitally.

perspexorange wrote: The other thing of note is the fact that, presumably, there will be seven accompanying 12” singles:

Fine Time Fine Time Remix Round & Round Round & Remix Run 2 World In Motion World In Motion Remix

That’s a lot of records.

It’s presumably going to be just as ‘busy’ for Republic, with the four LP singles plus 12”s for True Faith-94, 1963-95 & Blue Monday-95.

And presumably, all those 12 inches will also get digital releases too.

Let's hope the correct, 12" version of 'Fine Time' goes on those single releases, as it's ever so slightly different to the 'Technique' version (compare them at 1:17). The 'Fine Time' 12" version has yet to come out digitally.

So far, I've not re-bought all the re-released 12" singles, as I have the originals - with the exception of 'Sub-Culture' and the silver/clear vinyl 'The Perfect Kiss' (as they had new, unique artwork). But I have bought hi-res versions of their digital equivalents. As we edge into "90s remixes" territory, with 'Republic' and beyond, I may find I don't bother buying the digital single remasters, as I already have almost off of the tracks on CD anyway, and the releases get less interesting when they're mostly dance remixes and no B-sides or band 12" versions.

I also wonder how they'll handle the digital single re-releases when so many tracks and mixes were spread across multiple formats including CD singles and even cassette singles. For example, 'Regret (New Order Mix)' was only on the 7", cassette and CD single, and 'Vicious Circle (New Order Mix)' only on the 'Ruined In A Day' cassette single - so neither track ever appeared on a 12". It might be a good idea to start doing just one, combined digital re-release of each single from 'Republic' onwards that contain all mixes and B-sides together from all the different original formats.

But I'm getting way ahead of myself here!

Depeche Mode doesn't seem to have a problem with reissuing all the 12"s. Just saying

I still believe there's a market for a Recycle-style box set covering the Factory-era singles.

1. Ceremony
2. Procession
3. Everything's Gone Green
4. Temptation
5. Blue Monday
6. Confusion
7. Thieves Like Us
8. Murder
9. The Perfect Kiss
10. Sub-culture
11. Shellshock
12. State Of The Nation
13. Bizarre Love Triangle
14. True Faith
15. Touched By The Hand Of God
16. Blue Monday 1988
17. Fine Time
18. Round & Round
19. Run 2
20. World In Motion

20 CD singles plus a detailed discography book covering each single and showcasing the cover art, with notes by Peter Saville, the band, and any relevant parties. Many of their contemporaries have done the same - most notably Depeche Mode, with CD boxes in the '90s and '00s, and now the vinyl box sets. Include a Blu-ray with all the videos upscaled like Pet Shop Boys did with Smash.

Alternately, start adding a 3rd or even 4th CD in with the Definitive Editions.

Personally, I'm not fussed with anything beyond Republic and its 4 singles. The mid-90s were bleak.

Mr Discography wrote: Let's hope the correct, 12" version of 'Fine Time' goes on those single releases

^^^ THIS.

I still prefer the yellow 12" version to the album version.

50poundnote wrote: I still believe there's a market for a Recycle-style box set covering the Factory-era singles.

1. Ceremony
2. Procession
3. Everything's Gone Green
4. Temptation
5. Blue Monday
6. Confusion
7. Thieves Like Us
8. Murder
9. The Perfect Kiss
10. Sub-culture
11. Shellshock
12. State Of The Nation
13. Bizarre Love Triangle
14. True Faith
15. Touched By The Hand Of God
16. Blue Monday 1988
17. Fine Time
18. Round & Round
19. Run 2
20. World In Motion

20 CD singles plus a detailed discography book covering each single and showcasing the cover art, with notes by Peter Saville, the band, and any relevant parties. Many of their contemporaries have done the same - most notably Depeche Mode, with CD boxes in the '90s and '00s, and now the vinyl box sets. Include a Blu-ray with all the videos upscaled like Pet Shop Boys did with Smash.

Alternately, start adding a 3rd or even 4th CD in with the Definitive Editions.

Personally, I'm not fussed with anything beyond Republic and its 4 singles. The mid-90s were bleak.

100% in agreement. I've been waiting for something like this since like 1990. Considering that there have been extensive CD single box sets for artists like Depeche Mode, The Smiths, Morrissey, Cocteau Twins, even Joy Division, etc., it's rather shocking that this hasn't happened yet. Heck they even released a CD singles box for Wham! recently. While it's nice that these 12" remixes have been released digitally, I would still love to have well mastered hard copies on CD.

-Mike

50poundnote wrote: I still believe there's a market for a Recycle-style box set covering the Factory-era singles.

1. Ceremony
2. Procession
3. Everything's Gone Green
4. Temptation
5. Blue Monday
6. Confusion
7. Thieves Like Us
8. Murder
9. The Perfect Kiss
10. Sub-culture
11. Shellshock
12. State Of The Nation
13. Bizarre Love Triangle
14. True Faith
15. Touched By The Hand Of God
16. Blue Monday 1988
17. Fine Time
18. Round & Round
19. Run 2
20. World In Motion

20 CD singles plus a detailed discography book covering each single and showcasing the cover art, with notes by Peter Saville, the band, and any relevant parties. Many of their contemporaries have done the same - most notably Depeche Mode, with CD boxes in the '90s and '00s, and now the vinyl box sets. Include a Blu-ray with all the videos upscaled like Pet Shop Boys did with Smash.

Alternately, start adding a 3rd or even 4th CD in with the Definitive Editions.

Personally, I'm not fussed with anything beyond Republic and its 4 singles. The mid-90s were bleak.

Yes, that's a fab idea. Perfect to just cover the Factory singles - before the plethora of dance remixes really kicked in.

Johnny James wrote:

There's a Marmion remix of The Perfect Kiss (that was unreleased), they later reworked it into a new track of their own (can't remember what it was called though).

I've had a look through Marmion's Discogs page and can't find anything that sounds like it samples Perfect Kiss. The closest thing I found was a track called No Particular Order (-a clue in the name?) which seems to have a big nod to Uranium or Blue Monday circa 3:16, and I guess the percussion at 3:29 almost sounds like a sped up sample of the percussion from Perfect Kiss's intro. But nothing really jumps out at me as "Perfect Kiss" in this track, or indeed any of their others listed on Discogs.

Mr Discography wrote:

I wouldn't expect any more 'Blue Monday 1988' mixes to appear on the 'Technique' set - it's been covered in the re-released 12" and the 'Brotherhood' set.

I find myself agreeing. I think the Blue Monday 1988 Cassette mixes were on the same tape as the Technique demos, weren't they? But also I think by the time we get to Technique it's a different era from Blue Monday so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to include the track again.

Mr Discography wrote:

From 'Technique' onwards, we're really getting into the realms of the DJ remixes. I'd rather save those for the 12" reissues, and have demos, outtakes/alternate takes, instrumentals and rarities on the bonus CD in future sets - much more interesting than regurgitated remixes many of us already have. Just hope there's enough of that to fill up a bonus CD.

Agreed. Do we know if these boxes will go beyond Technique anyway? (Mr Z, if you're reading?)

PS Gah, again the forum is accusing me of SPAM. Boy this is too much!

Debaser wrote:

Mr Discography wrote:

From 'Technique' onwards, we're really getting into the realms of the DJ remixes. I'd rather save those for the 12" reissues, and have demos, outtakes/alternate takes, instrumentals and rarities on the bonus CD in future sets - much more interesting than regurgitated remixes many of us already have. Just hope there's enough of that to fill up a bonus CD.

Agreed. Do we know if these boxes will go beyond Technique anyway? (Mr Z, if you're reading?)

I sure hope we get box sets for Republic, GR, and WFTSC - especially Republic. I'd love to hear the demos on that Republic demo tape Hooky was planning on selling at his auction from a couple of years back, that were mysteriously pulled a few days before bidding ended...

daftpunk wrote:

Debaser wrote:

Mr Discography wrote:

From 'Technique' onwards, we're really getting into the realms of the DJ remixes. I'd rather save those for the 12" reissues, and have demos, outtakes/alternate takes, instrumentals and rarities on the bonus CD in future sets - much more interesting than regurgitated remixes many of us already have. Just hope there's enough of that to fill up a bonus CD.

Agreed. Do we know if these boxes will go beyond Technique anyway? (Mr Z, if you're reading?)

I sure hope we get box sets for Republic, GR, and WFTSC - especially Republic. I'd love to hear the demos on that Republic demo tape Hooky was planning on selling at his auction from a couple of years back, that were mysteriously pulled a few days before bidding ended...

I recall reading on here somewhere that the plan was to do up to a combined 'Waiting For The Sirens' Call' & 'Lost Sirens' set (guess because we already have a similar boxed set for 'Music Complete'). I wonder if the sets will get that far in the end though? I hope they do.

Slightly off-topic but…

If they do go up to WFTSC for the box sets, I wonder if Republic’s box would include the unreleased Danny Tenaglia mix of ‘World (The Price of Love)’.

It wasn’t used and he turned it into one of his best loved tracks ‘Bottom Heavy’.

Anyway, Danny Tenaglia has included a snippet with Barney’s vocal on his Instagram page and it sounds pretty good. I guess the band weren’t into the New York tribal house sound back then.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C\_jKPSqRfZR/?igsh=ZWgyeWMwbjczcDlp

EmileStrunz wrote:

Anyway, Danny Tenaglia has included a snippet with Barney’s vocal on his Instagram page and it sounds pretty good. I guess the band weren’t into the New York tribal house sound back then.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C\_jKPSqRfZR/?igsh=ZWgyeWMwbjczcDlp

That's pretty good. Sounds a decent remix. I'm unfamiliar with 'Bottom Heavy'. I'd be happy to have this remix on any boxset.

Debaser wrote:

Johnny James wrote:

There's a Marmion remix of The Perfect Kiss (that was unreleased), they later reworked it into a new track of their own (can't remember what it was called though).

I've had a look through Marmion's Discogs page and can't find anything that sounds like it samples Perfect Kiss. The closest thing I found was a track called No Particular Order (-a clue in the name?) which seems to have a big nod to Uranium or Blue Monday circa 3:16, and I guess the percussion at 3:29 almost sounds like a sped up sample of the percussion from Perfect Kiss's intro. But nothing really jumps out at me as "Perfect Kiss" in this track, or indeed any of their others listed on Discogs.

---

Mr Discography wrote:

I wouldn't expect any more 'Blue Monday 1988' mixes to appear on the 'Technique' set - it's been covered in the re-released 12" and the 'Brotherhood' set.

I find myself agreeing. I think the Blue Monday 1988 Cassette mixes were on the same tape as the Technique demos, weren't they? But also I think by the time we get to Technique it's a different era from Blue Monday so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to include the track again.

Mr Discography wrote:

From 'Technique' onwards, we're really getting into the realms of the DJ remixes. I'd rather save those for the 12" reissues, and have demos, outtakes/alternate takes, instrumentals and rarities on the bonus CD in future sets - much more interesting than regurgitated remixes many of us already have. Just hope there's enough of that to fill up a bonus CD.

Agreed. Do we know if these boxes will go beyond Technique anyway? (Mr Z, if you're reading?)

PS Gah, again the forum is accusing me of SPAM. Boy this is too much!

That's the one, sounds very similar except for the added Uranium bit, which to be honest, improves it compared to TPK one. There wasn't much in the way of TPK samples originally, no vocals either.

Johnny James wrote:

That's the one, sounds very similar except for the added Uranium bit, which to be honest, improves it compared to TPK one. There wasn't much in the way of TPK samples originally, no vocals either.

Thanks. The chances of a remix sounding better than Perfect Kiss original were always going to be slim I guess.

Incidentally, anyone who's reading this: the bit at the end (6:32 onwards) reminds me of the end of a NO track (I think?) but I can't figure out which one. Anyone?

^ The very end of Thieves Like Us, surely?!!

EmileStrunz wrote: Slightly off-topic but…

If they do go up to WFTSC for the box sets, I wonder if Republic’s box would include the unreleased Danny Tenaglia mix of ‘World (The Price of Love)’.

It wasn’t used and he turned it into one of his best loved tracks ‘Bottom Heavy’.

Anyway, Danny Tenaglia has included a snippet with Barney’s vocal on his Instagram page and it sounds pretty good. I guess the band weren’t into the New York tribal house sound back then.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C\_jKPSqRfZR/?igsh=ZWgyeWMwbjczcDlp

That mix sounds absolutely incredible. Now I want to hear all of it.

Has anyone here had any photos or memorabilia of theirs featured in any of the books included in these box sets?

I’ve got a couple of photos of billboards around Manchester, advertising Technique and the Factory office covered in posters before it was renovated.

Just wondered who would be best to get in touch with regarding these, if I can find them! Johnny James?

Yep. I have the massive ‘Concert’ poster for SEC and NEC beautifully (and expensively) framed that is currently gathering dust in my garage as it’s just too big for any room in the house. (I was living in a flat with really high ceilings, but then moved in with partner) It really needs to be seen more widely or displayed somewhere.

Subvulture wrote:

EmileStrunz wrote: Slightly off-topic but…

If they do go up to WFTSC for the box sets, I wonder if Republic’s box would include the unreleased Danny Tenaglia mix of ‘World (The Price of Love)’.

It wasn’t used and he turned it into one of his best loved tracks ‘Bottom Heavy’.

Anyway, Danny Tenaglia has included a snippet with Barney’s vocal on his Instagram page and it sounds pretty good. I guess the band weren’t into the New York tribal house sound back then.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C\_jKPSqRfZR/?igsh=ZWgyeWMwbjczcDlp

That mix sounds absolutely incredible. Now I want to hear all of it.

inspired by this, i made two different attempts with the mixes with the world lyrics......

will post in the 'covers' thread:

http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=3575&p=3#

parts of it sound pretty good...

later | || | | | n egative 1

Been thinking about which 12" singles might be released to accompany future Definitive Editions. There's no ambiguity between albums and their associated singles for albums after Brotherhood & Substance. I'd imagine the tracklistings of the original 12 inches will be exactly reproduced for Technique's singles, but find myself wondering if there's a better combination of consolidated tracks and B-sides that could be on the re-released 12 inches from 'Republic' onwards, given the plethora of remixes on them originally. Plus '60 Miles An Hour's and 'Waiting For The Sirens's Call' were never originally released on 12", and neither was the US only 'Guilt Is A Useless Emotion'. Be great if they could include some newly created extended "band" versions of the tracks from 'Regret' onwards, like they did for all the 'Music Complete' tracks.

Here's how it breaks down:

Technique 1. Fine Time 2. Fine Time Remix 3. Round & Round 4. Round & Remix 5. Run 2 6. World In Motion 7. World In Motion Remix

Republic 1. Regret 2. Ruined In A Day 3. World 4. Spooky 5. True Faith 94 6. 1963 95 7. Blue Monday 95

Get Ready 1. Crystal NUOX8 2. Crystal NUOXX8 3. Crystal NUOXXX8 4. [60 Miles An Hour (CD single only)] 5. Someone Like You (2 x 12") NUOX10 6. Someone Like You NUOXX10 7. Here To Stay

Waiting For The Sirens' Call / Lost Sirens 1. Krafty 2. Jetstream 3. [Waiting For The Sirens' Call (3 x 7")] 4. [Guilt Is A Useless Emotion (US CD single only)]

What tracks would you guys like to see on these future reissues? And how many 12" singles do you think they should re-release? Surely not those 3 x 'Crystal' and 'Someone Like You' 12 inches all over again?

Mr Discography wrote: And how many 12" singles do you think they should re-release? Surely not those 3 x 'Crystal' and 'Someone Like You' 12 inches all over again?

They should do all of them. No exceptions

steinomite wrote:

100% in agreement. I've been waiting for something like this since like 1990. Considering that there have been extensive CD single box sets for artists like Depeche Mode, The Smiths, Morrissey, Cocteau Twins, even Joy Division, etc., it's rather shocking that this hasn't happened yet. Heck they even released a CD singles box for Wham! recently. While it's nice that these 12" remixes have been released digitally, I would still love to have well mastered hard copies on CD. -Mike

Yes please.

Mr. Disco wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: And how many 12" singles do you think they should re-release? Surely not those 3 x 'Crystal' and 'Someone Like You' 12 inches all over again?

They should do all of them. No exceptions

What do you think about the 3 singles not released on 12" - would you like to see new 12" issues for them?

I'm possibly in the minority here but, personally speaking, I don't really think that the Republic/GR/WFTSC mixes need multiple vinyl releases for each single `(unlike the Factory ones).

I'd be happy if they released one 12" for each, including one for both Someone Like You & Guilt Is A Useless Emotion, which were US?DJ/promos only.

I'd also be OK with them mixing up the contents so we just have the best mixes on each 12". I know 'best' is subjective, so maybe just the 'definitive' mix of each or, if that's not really easy to judge, the mix that's closer to the actual song itself. For instance, I don't really want to buy 12"s with mixes that barely feature the song on them (e.g. the dreadful Joe T. Vanelli mixes of 1963 which just feature a female vocalist singing 'Johnny').

Of course, if they do release 3 x Crystal etc., I'd inevitably get them. What a mug...

Mr Discography wrote: What do you think about the 3 singles not released on 12" - would you like to see new 12" issues for them?

To be honest, I'm not much a vinyl person. Just think they should keep coherent and reissue every 12". If Depeche Mode can do it, so can them.

Not sure about the 7"s, tho. I personally would prefer CD singles

Mr. Disco wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: What do you think about the 3 singles not released on 12" - would you like to see new 12" issues for them?

To be honest, I'm not much a vinyl person. Just think they should keep coherent and reissue every 12". If Depeche Mode can do it, so can them.

Not sure about the 7"s, tho. I personally would prefer CD singles

I've only ever bought any reissues if they offer something new, so the only two re-released 12 inches I bought were 'The Perfect Kiss' with the silver sleeve, and 'Sub-Culture' with the new sleeve (which I loved the simplicity of). Haven't bought any of the other reissued 12 inches, as I have the originals, but have bought all the Definitive Editions.

Know it's still rather a long way off, but was wondering if there were any predictions for video material that might end up on the technique boxset DVD's?

Judging by Youtube there doesn't seem to be all that much live material out there for this period, relatively speaking?

Cheers,

James.

VP, R&R, Run - Big world Café.

Jcp7 wrote: VP, R&R, Run - Big world Café.

I think they did dream attack too but it wasn't broadcast...i'm sure i've seen it somewhere

Is 1963 from one of the american technique concerts on some dvd as an extra...so i'm guessing the full concert will have been filmed

lee wrote:

Jcp7 wrote: VP, R&R, Run - Big world Café.

I think they did dream attack too but it wasn't broadcast...i'm sure i've seen it somewhere

Yeah, Dream Attack was partially shown on a 'special' programme a few months later:

'Big World Café - Extra Special', Channel 4, 28/08/89

I think Johnny James mentioned that the footage from the two Big World Café shows was either unobtainable from the Channel Four archives or pretty much unusable. Or did I imagine this?

It's a shame if so, as I love that performance.

The Big World Café video on YouTube really needs to be remastered.

perspexorange wrote:

lee wrote:

Jcp7 wrote: VP, R&R, Run - Big world Café.

I think they did dream attack too but it wasn't broadcast...i'm sure i've seen it somewhere

Yeah, Dream Attack was partially shown on a 'special' programme a few months later:

'Big World Café - Extra Special', Channel 4, 28/08/89

I think Johnny James mentioned that the footage from the two Big World Café shows was either unobtainable from the Channel Four archives or pretty much unusable. Or did I imagine this?

It's a shame if so, as I love that performance.

The master of the main show is missing, so all we'll be able to do is use someone's VHS of it.

lee wrote:

Jcp7 wrote: VP, R&R, Run - Big world Café.

I think they did dream attack too but it wasn't broadcast...i'm sure i've seen it somewhere

Is 1963 from one of the american technique concerts on some dvd as an extra...so i'm guessing the full concert will have been filmed

There was that weird footage where Dream Attack was live but 1963 was dubbed over with the audio from the recorded version. Weird.

I reckon there’s a lot of live footage that just hasn’t been seen yet though.

Johnny James wrote:

The master of the main show is missing, so all we'll be able to do is use someone's VHS of it.

Thanks for confirming, JJ, I thought I hadn't imagined it.

Although, I'd be relatively happy with a remaster of a VHS (if that's all we can get), it would be frustrating that, presumably, the Dream Attack footage would remain incomplete.

Edit:

Hmmm - you mentioned 'main show'. I guess it's possibly that the master tape of the later 'Dream Attack' show, might still be available.

perspexorange wrote:

Johnny James wrote:

The master of the main show is missing, so all we'll be able to do is use someone's VHS of it.

Thanks for confirming, JJ, I thought I hadn't imagined it.

Although, I'd be relatively happy with a remaster of a VHS (if that's all we can get), it would be frustrating that, presumably, the Dream Attack footage would remain incomplete.

Edit:

Hmmm - you mentioned 'main show'. I guess it's possibly that the master tape of the later 'Dream Attack' show, might still be available.

Yeah, you can see this on the BFI database, the later show appears not to be lost.

https://collections-search.bfi.org.uk/web/Details/ChoiceFilmWorks/150348912

Multiple archive formats available.

Here's a suggestion for a digital re-issue of all the 7" singles that I'd like to see, principally to get the rare B-side edits out there on streaming and download, as well as the sometimes differing artwork the 7" releases had. Either bring it out next year (if there's to be another lengthy gap between Definitive Edition sets, as they did with 'Substance'), after the 'Technique' set, or maybe even later when all the sets are complete. Would be a good companion to the ongoing 12" single digital re-releases.

I've only included the 26 singles up to 'Here To Stay', as no single since then has had any B-sides, and the radio versions since then are widely available on 'Singles' or subsequent digital single releases. In some cases there was never a physical 7", but I've included what I think would've made the best A+B side combination at the time. In some cases, there's more than two tracks (such as 'The Perfect Kiss' which had two different promo 7 inches, each with unique edits).

Would love to see these all out digitally to mop up some of those rare tracks. Also sure many collectors would love a 26 x 7" physical box set of all of these as well (if economically practicable to manufacture)!

1. Ceremony [4:38] / In A Lonely Place (7" version) [4:39]
2. Procession [4:30] / Everything's Gone Green (7" Edit) [4:19]
3. Temptation (7" Version) [5:24] / Hurt (7" Version) [4:46]
4. Blue Monday (7" Edit) [?:??] / The Beach (7" Edit –if there is one) [?:??]
5. Confusion (7" Edit) [4:09] / Confusion (Rough Trade 7") [3:38]
6. Thieves Like Us (7" Edit) [3:56] / Lonesome Tonight (7" Edit) [3:53]
7. The Perfect Kiss (FBN 7") [4:23] / The Kiss Of Death (FBN 7" Edit) [5:10] / The Perfect Kiss (UK Promo 7") [3:50] / The Kiss Of Death (UK Promo 7" Edit) [3:00]
8. Sub-Culture (7" Edit) [3:25] / Dub-Vulture (7" Edit) [3:37] / Sub-Culture (FBN 7" Remix Edit) [4:58]
9. Shellshock (7" Edit) [4:24] / Thieves Like Us (Instrumental Edit) [3:57]
10. State Of The Nation (7" Edit) [3:31] / Shame Of The Nation (7" Edit) [3:35]
11. Bizarre Love Triangle (7" Remix Edit) [3:45] / Bizarre Dub Triangle (7" Edit) [3:28]
12. True Faith (7" Edit) [4:12] / 1963 [5:32]
13. Touched By The Hand Of God (7" Edit) [3:43] / Touched By The Hand Of Dub (7" Edit) [4:12]
14. Blue Monday 1988 (7" Version) / Beach Buggy (7" Edit) [4:20]
15. Fine Time (7" Edit) [3:10] / Don't Do It [4:33]
16. Round & Round (7" Version) [4:00] / Best & Marsh (7" Edit) [3:34]
17. Run 2 (7" Remix) [3:38] / MTO [3:43]
18. World In Motion [4:32] / World In Motion (The B-Side) [4:48]
19. Regret [4:10] / Regret (The New Order Mix) [5:12]
20. Ruined In A Day (Radio Edit) [3:59] / Vicious Circle (The New Order Mix) [4:07]
21. World (The Price Of Love) (Radio Edit) [3:38] / World (The Price Of Love) (Perfecto Radio Edit) [4:04]
22. Spooky (Minimix) [3:51] / Spooky (Radio Edit) [3:46]
23. 1963 (95 Remix Edit) [4:02] / Let's Go [3:55]
24. Crystal (Radio Edit) [4:19] / Behind Closed Doors [5:26]
25. 60 Miles An Hour (Radio Edit) [3:56] / Sabotage [4:50]
26. Here To Stay (Radio Edit) [3:56] / Player In The League [5:36] / Such A Good Thing [4:08] -note: I didn't want to repeat the World In Motion 2002 re-release, so included 'Such A Good Thing' with this

Thoughts?

Since you ask, here's my 2p:

I cannot stand 7" edits and never listen to them. Give me the full glory of the song, or even better, an extended mix. This is one of Neworder's strongest points and a 7" edit is anathema to me.

If there ever were to be a physical CD Singles box, I would consider it (7" edits and all) but I suspect the official 'Recycle' concept is long since redundant.

I'd probably swerve a digital box set, as I have pretty much everything I need from TPOI's magnificent but unofficial Recycle project back in the day.

The Definitive Album Boxes however, are things of passion and rare beauty and I'm all in on them.

Rorschach wrote: Since you ask, here's my 2p:

I cannot stand 7" edits and never listen to them. Give me the full glory of the song, or even better, an extended mix. This is one of Neworder's strongest points and a 7" edit is anathema to me.

Oh, as with you, I almost universally prefer the 12" or album versions over their 7"/edit counterparts. However they do exist, and I'd like remastered digital copies of those that are still unavailable on CD/digital (the B-side edits and dubs). I think a 7" digital reissue campaign would achieve that nicely.

Mr Discography wrote: Would love to see these all out digitally to mop up some of those rare tracks. Also sure many collectors would love a 26 x 7" physical box set of all of these as well (if economical practicable to manufacture)!

If we consider Krafty, J.E.T., WFTSC etc. we could stretch it to 30 7"s approx. Perhaps one box would be too expensive, but it could be three boxes with 10 singles each, like this:

Mr. Disco wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Would love to see these all out digitally to mop up some of those rare tracks. Also sure many collectors would love a 26 x 7" physical box set of all of these as well (if economical practicable to manufacture)!

If we consider Krafty, J.E.T., WFTSC etc. we could stretch it to 30 7"s approx.

There are others you could include, such as 'True Faith 94' (which did have a 7") and 'Blue Monday 95' (which had a promo 7" backed with 'Blue Monday 1988', and a promo 2-track CD backed with the Plutone Radio Edit). I chose to mirror the tracklist of the 'Singles' compilation for my list above.

It also gets a bit tricky for later singles deciding what track to put on the B-side when there's no actual B-side or band-made dub. Guess it'd be whatever remix also has an edited version short enough for to fit on a 7", or a promo radio edit shorter than the single version (as most of the 'Music Complete' singles had).

So you could choose from any of these 11/13 extra digital / physical singles and tracks to pad out the set:

• Rocking Carol [3:35] / Ode To Joy [3:59] -possibly..?
• True Faith 94 (Radio Edit) / True Faith (Perfecto Radio Edit) [4:06]
• Blue Monday (Hardfloor Radio Edit) [3:47] / Blue Monday (Plutone Radio Edit) [3:47]
• Krafty (Single Edit) [3:50] / Krafty (Re-Edit Of Album Version) [4:51]
• Jetstream (Radio Edit) [3:46] / Jetstream (Richard X Remix) (Edit) [3:36]
• Waiting For The Sirens' Call (Radio Edit) [3:53] / Temptation (Secret Machines Remix) [4:39] / Waiting For The Sirens' Call (Band Mix) [3:55] / Everything's Gone Green (Cicada Remix) / Waiting For The Sirens' Call (Jacknife Lee Remix – Edit) [4:13] / Bizarre Love Triangle (Richard X Remix – Edit) [4:13] - note:if a physical reissue, would have to be on 3 x 7 inches as per the original release
• Restless (Single Version) [4:31] / Restless (Radio Edit) [3:31]
• Tutti Frutti (Single Version) [4:20] / Tutti Frutti (Radio Edit) [3:40]
• Singularity (Single Edit) [4:12] / Singularity (Mark Reeder's Duality Remix Edit) [3:48] / Singularity (Radio Edit) [4:02]
• People On The High Line (Richard X Radio Edit) [3:38] / People On The High Line (Claptone Radio Edit) [3:32] / People On The High Line (Richard X Video Mix) [4:16]
• Be A Rebel (Edit) [3:35] / Be A Rebel (Renegade Spezial Edit) [3:10]

Including non-Hooky material could get potentially dangerous

Mr. Disco wrote: Including non-Hooky material could get potentially dangerous

Especially as it's on a different label.

Happy New Year all Apologies for the lack of anything meaningful or new but just a post to see how we feel about the release of the Technique box.

Will it be a 2025 release? What will be on it? What colour scheme will the box be? Does anyone care?

Yes i do fully intend to buy the Technique box whenever that may be. Just to complete the set of the Factory era albums if nothing else. After that? Republic box and beyond ? Not sure. It was really the definitive box sets of the 1980s/Factory albums for me.

What colour would a Technique box be? That purple ( or is it maroon?) which i guess was the most prominent colour of the album sleeve? But who knows.

I'll buy all of them, although I admit that Technique is the last one that really appeals.

I will say though, that I would love to see some of the '98 & '01 live material that we've seen glimpses of in the past (mainly on the 511 DVD):

Apollo '98 Ally Pally '98 Olympia '01

Not least of which is because I was at all three gigs.

Apollo '98 was a fab gig. In A Lonely Place. Wow.

EmileStrunz wrote: Happy New Year all Apologies for the lack of anything meaningful or new but just a post to see how we feel about the release of the Technique box.

Will it be a 2025 release? What will be on it? What colour scheme will the box be? Does anyone care?

Be great if it came out by the end of 2025!

A discussion on Bluesky about the alternative lyric version of "Vanishing Point" reminded me of this passage in Audrey Golden's I Thought I Heard You Speak: Women at Factory Records book. In it, Rebecca Boulton of New Order's management is discussing the recent box sets:

"So we started off with Movement, and we brought in a consultant, James Zeiter. He knows more about Factory's history, and New Order and Joy Division's history, than New Order and Joy Division do themselves, that's for sure. He's been brilliant at compiling spreadsheets of what would be available. So that's the starting place, and then the band members that are interested at being involved take a look."

There is more discussion about the band members involvement, but I just wanted everyone to appreciate that our Johnny James is (hopefully) still beavering away at that Technique set.

Thanks Andy. I have no doubts and have even started saving up for the Technique box. ;-)

Andy wrote: and then the band members that are interested at being involved take a look.

is this a coded way of saying that Bernard couldn't care less? I still remember the extras on the Glasgow DVD very much felt like Bernard hadn't paid any attention to what was included (the infamous Glastonbury 81 collapse and the Wireless debacle when his autocue broke..)

As for Technique - I kind of hope it's the last one, at least in the format of the existing Factory-era boxsets.

Unless they can find decent early mixes, works-in-progress of Republic - I've no lasting interest in all the myriad remixes that started to appear, and the live shows started to become less interesting once they stopped developing new songs in concert and stuck to the hits.

Andy wrote: A discussion on Bluesky about the alternative lyric version of "Vanishing Point" reminded me of this passage in Audrey Golden's I Thought I Heard You Speak: Women at Factory Records book. In it, Rebecca Boulton of New Order's management is discussing the recent box sets:

"So we started off with Movement, and we brought in a consultant, James Zeiter. He knows more about Factory's history, and New Order and Joy Division's history, than New Order and Joy Division do themselves, that's for sure. He's been brilliant at compiling spreadsheets of what would be available. So that's the starting place, and then the band members that are interested at being involved take a look."

There is more discussion about the band members involvement, but I just wanted everyone to appreciate that our Johnny James is (hopefully) still beavering away at that Technique set.

Can you share a link to the Bluesky discussion? I'm on there and would be interested to read it.

Mr Discography wrote:

Andy wrote: A discussion on Bluesky about the alternative lyric version of "Vanishing Point" reminded me of this passage in Audrey Golden's I Thought I Heard You Speak: Women at Factory Records book. In it, Rebecca Boulton of New Order's management is discussing the recent box sets:

"So we started off with Movement, and we brought in a consultant, James Zeiter. He knows more about Factory's history, and New Order and Joy Division's history, than New Order and Joy Division do themselves, that's for sure. He's been brilliant at compiling spreadsheets of what would be available. So that's the starting place, and then the band members that are interested at being involved take a look."

There is more discussion about the band members involvement, but I just wanted everyone to appreciate that our Johnny James is (hopefully) still beavering away at that Technique set.

Can you share a link to the Bluesky discussion? I'm on there and would be interested to read it.

There isn't anything there other than comments regarding someone's pick of "Vanishing Point" in their #NewOrderTop30 (people revealing their favourite New Order tracks one day at a time over the month). I don't really participate in those "challenges", but occasionally comment on other poster's selections.

VanishingPointBlueSky

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Andy wrote: and then the band members that are interested at being involved take a look.

is this a coded way of saying that Bernard couldn't care less? I still remember the extras on the Glasgow DVD very much felt like Bernard hadn't paid any attention to what was included (the infamous Glastonbury 81 collapse and the Wireless debacle when his autocue broke..)

As for Technique - I kind of hope it's the last one, at least in the format of the existing Factory-era boxsets.

Unless they can find decent early mixes, works-in-progress of Republic - I've no lasting interest in all the myriad remixes that started to appear, and the live shows started to become less interesting once they stopped developing new songs in concert and stuck to the hits.

Yes.

Rebecca Boulton continues:

"Steve's absolutely brilliant. He's really helpful and really keen on making sure things are good and right, but also has a sort of fan sensibility because he personally enjoys box sets and the way they are approached. He knows what he likes and what he doesn't like. Hooky's pretty good, he's got quite a lot of opinions about how things should be presented. Bernard's not really very interested."

Hello all. Have there been any updates or news on the next release in internet-land?

Could be wrong, but thought I'd heard the JD Boxset was coming before Technique (Steve might have said it at the Merck Market), if so could be a long wait!

I would greatly welcome JD box sets assuming they are in the same format as these.

I think the JD box is meant to a live set, rather than reissues of the studios LPs. I guess there’s no reason it couldn’t be done in the same style as the NO definitive editions, but seems unlikely given the rumoured non-LP material.

Question for Johnny James. Is there any news on a release date for the 'Technique' box at all?

Pre-orders for the 'Brotherhood' set opened this time last year for a late November release - so guessing if no announcement by the end of September we're looking at a 2026 release?

Also, any update on the 'Brotherhood' digital singles?

Thanks!

Mr Discography wrote: Question for Johnny James. Is there any news on a release date for the 'Technique' box at all?

Pre-orders for the 'Brotherhood' set opened this time last year for a late November release - so guessing if no announcement by the end of September we're looking at a 2026 release?

Also, any update on the 'Brotherhood' digital singles?

Thanks!

Both box sets are next year (JD & NO). There is much to do still.

I'll ask again about the digital singles.

Given how expensive the boxed sets have become, and that Stephen Morris and Steven Wilson have been making those new surround sound and instrumental versions of the old albums, I sincerely hope future boxed sets from 'Technique' and (hopefully) onwards will also include the surround sound Blu-ray discs, along with the usual CDs and DVDs. They can, and no doubt will be released separately of course, but it be great to have them all together in future boxes.