The Fall and New Order

Two very different bands in many ways... both around in some form after 25 years... both indie icons in their own way...

Have The Fall and New Order/Joy Division ever had any connections? friendships? hatreds? indifferences? sex?

Did Hooky sell them the bassline for "I feel Voxish"? did he lose it in a bet?

The Fall has been rereleasing stuff on CD lately, with bonus 7" and B-sides no less, what a novel idea (i guess the older CD versions of some albums were mastered directly from vinyl and had actual skips on the CD recording?!?... at least that is what i've read). The pre- Wonderful and Fright Fall was a bit too much for me when i was a kid. so giving them another try. Hex Enduction Hour CD is going to be on the way in December.

Heard of them, but never listened to them.

Originally posted by Wolfmann Heard of them, but never listened to them.

same here

great band. very different from the usual, i must say.

good to see mark e. smith make an appearance in 24HPP.

yeah, the fall. i've been into them for a couple of years now. a dj for a local campus radio station loves to play them almost every show, from all different eras. so, i've got a pretty good range on thier stuff.

but i liked the stuff they did in the mid-80s. great eccentric pop melodies. i've only got the A-sides compilation, and that is just

Only ever heard a Fall track from the 'Live at the Electric Circus' 10" which has Warsaw/Joy Division doing "At A Later Date" on it. It's actually a very good record.

Originally posted by pumped full of drugs Two very different bands in many ways... both around in some form after 25 years... both indie icons in their own way...Have The Fall and New Order/Joy Division ever had any connections? friendships? hatreds? indifferences? sex?Did Hooky sell them the bassline for "I feel Voxish"? did he lose it in a bet? The Fall has been rereleasing stuff on CD lately, with bonus 7" and B-sides no less, what a novel idea (i guess the older CD versions of some albums were mastered directly from vinyl and had actual skips on the CD recording?!?... at least that is what i've read). The pre- Wonderful and Fright Fall was a bit too much for me when i was a kid. so giving them another try. Hex Enduction Hour CD is going to be on the way in December.

Hex Enduction Hour is out tomorrow & the 24 bit remaster sounds fantastic, plus it has Look Know & I'm Into CB as bonus tracks. I am co-editor of the official Fall website and have been involved in the remaster programmme, assisting and advising Voiceprint Records for the last 6 months or so. I "signed off" all the remasters before they went to production. I've also compiled & written sleeve notes for a couple of CDs for them - Listening In (out already) & Early Singles (also out tomorrow).

I've been a fan of both The Fall & Joy Division/New Order since the late 70's and their progress has been quite different but they are similar in many ways. The Fall has a catalogue of 60-70 albums including comp's & live releases and have recorded well over 300 songs, so they are rather more prolific than NO. They flirted briefly with a major label but that didn't last long and remain a small indie band with a cult following, I guess, but are also very critically acclaimed. They're also had about 25-30 line up changes over the last 25 years. Steve Hanley, the bass player for about 20 of those years, would run rings around Peter Hook ;)

(That was a wind-up) but the point is I'm a fan who has got close to the record company and now Fall fans are finally getting better quality releases and material released that has been very hard to obtain, unavailable on CD, etc (eg. the Listening In compilation I put together for Voiceprint Records).

If anyone wants to check out the website: http://fall.cjb.net

The albums discography is here: http://www.visi.com/fall/discog-albums.html

Conway Paton (fave NO songs Thieves Like Us, Perfect Kiss)

I see the chap who posted before me is from Auckland, NZ. Me too!

If anyone wants to buy Hex Enduction Hour (or any other Fall release), Action Records are highly recommended and just write in the comments section that you were referred from the official Fall website and the good blokes will give you a 10% discount. They also deduct VAT for export orders outside the UK. And, no I don't get any kickbacks.

www.action-records.co.uk

This clan has got away with 500 years of sheer bloody brilliance.....

They were fantastic at the G-Mex "Festival of the 10th Summer" gig that also featured the most euphoric NO performance I've ever witnessed. Fall bass player at that time was Marc "Lard" Riley, Radio 1 partner of Mark Radcliffe. Cruiser's Creek. Ace

Surely not ? Lard had gone at the end of 82, with fights on Australian dancefloors and all kinds of shenanigans. Steve Hanley was on the bass in 86 (83-95 being his reign as the man whose bass expanded).

Sorry Benny (and others) - I always found them a bit overrated-ah. Not shite, but not great either. Just an opinion - no offence intended CTB

Can't choose any of the options. I'd choose 'always been vaguely aware of them but by the time I thought about listening to them they'd produced about 500 albums and getting into them seemed like too much hard work'. Plus I'm not a fan of John Peel, so his enthusiasm puts me off.

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes Surely not ? Lard had gone at the end of 82, with fights on Australian dancefloors and all kinds of shenanigans. Steve Hanley was on the bass in 86 (83-95 being his reign as the man whose bass expanded).

yeah, dead right, I got mixed up 'cos Marc Riley and the Creepers were on the bill too.

Also been a fan for a very long time, and I have at least 15 albums, though the numerous repackages of old material postively seem to dwarf the attempts by those on behalf of NO.

I must add the Pavement's Conduit For Sale is the best Fall rip I've heard.

only seen them once...liverpool royal court...alongside the order and the smiths...they came on after the order...mark smith walked on with a sainsburys carrier bag that was holding his booze...i do remember being quite impressed..they looked shambolic but definately knew how to play..

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes Surely not ? Lard had gone at the end of 82, with fights on Australian dancefloors and all kinds of shenanigans. Steve Hanley was on the bass in 86 (83-95 being his reign as the man whose bass expanded).

Benny, I think you should be on fallnet!

Hanley actually joined in 1979 (at which point Riley switched from bass to guitar & keyboards) & he left in April 1998 after an ill-fated US tour when Mark E Smith ended up in jail for assaulting Julia Nagle - she stayed in the band and the rest, including Hanley quit. But that's another story...

I have been. Sadly it bored me silly with massive irrelevance, in-jokes and very little Fall content !

Fair enough, and that hasn't changed any.

so, what about any stories about the two bands back in the late 70s and the 80s??? ... there has to be something. or maybe they just completely ignored each other. seems unlikely.

and i still wonder what about "I feel Voxish" (Fall 1993ish) and why it sounds like NO "Mesh" from the 1981-82 EP (or Cries and Whispers or whatever they call it now). it can't be a coincidence.

Originally posted by pumped full of drugs so, what about any stories about the two bands back in the late 70s and the 80s??? ... there has to be something. or maybe they just completely ignored each other. seems unlikely.and i still wonder what about "I feel Voxish" (Fall 1993ish) and why it sounds like NO "Mesh" from the 1981-82 EP (or Cries and Whispers or whatever they call it now). it can't be a coincidence.

I don't think there was any real connection between the 2 bands back then. The Fall never mixed much with any of the other Manchester groups. Mark E Smith is often quoted as saying he dislikes musicians. But I believe these days he sometimes has a drink with Hooky.

I Feel Voxish was recorded in 1983, first played live early 1982. I can't hear any resemblance to the Mesh track on Substance - but is that one actually Cries & Whispers? ;) I had the other track on vinyl in 1981 but that's now long gone & I can't remember what it sounds like.

I can't see any connection whatsoever between I Feel Voxish and Mesh, Cries and Whispers or any New Order track. I can see a connection between Ketamine Sun and various Pixies tracks though !

I managed to get a good old feel of lovely Brix's legs down the front whilst she did some sexy hip wiggling for me at the Astoria during "Glam Racket". Thats my best memory. Or maybe being chucked offstage at the Clapham Grand after drunkenly trying to cuddle Mark E during Big Priest. Or buying him a whiskey at a pub in Tottenham Court Road.

Oh heady days. Jumpers for goalpoasts...

Originally posted by Conway Paton Fair enough, and that hasn't changed any.

It's a pity that the 'NFC' caveat doesn't work effectively - I used to get the daily digest, and there was so much stuff that was just repeated by people not trimming the previous message that my yahoo account was truncating it halfway through. It seemed very much to me, a Fall fan of 20+ years and veteran of 59 gigs, that it was a closed shop and that outsiders to the clique weren't welcomed. In the end I just gave up with the mess of random signatures and conversations that appeared to have little to do with The Fall. Pity. I've got a lot of Fall tapes over the years, some of which's set lists aren't listed on the gigography.

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes I can't see any connection whatsoever between I Feel Voxish and Mesh, Cries and Whispers or any New Order track. I can see a connection between Ketamine Sun and various Pixies tracks though !

Ketamine Sun was based on Lou Reed's Kill Your Sons - the title even slipped across - I suspect they were going to cover it and it just evolved into a new song, much like Ibis-Afro Man evolved from Iggy Pop's African Man.

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes I've got a lot of Fall tapes over the years, some of which's set lists aren't listed on the gigography.

Could you drop me a line offlist please c.paton@xtra.co.nz